from the they-should-look-into-getting-some-artificial-intelligence dept.
One of the individuals who first brought the Internet to Australia, Geoff Huston, writes in his blog:
I recall from some years back, when we were debating in Australia some national Internet censorship proposal de jour, that if the Internet represented a new Global Village then Australia was trying very hard to position itself as the Global Village Idiot. And the current situation with Australia's new Data Retention laws may well support a case for reviving that sentiment. Between the various government agencies who pressed for this legislation, the lawyers who drafted the legislation, the politicians who advocated its adoption and the bureaucrats who are overseeing its implementation, then as far as I can tell none of them get it. They just don't understand the Internet and how it works, and they are acting on a somewhat misguided assumption that the Internet is nothing more than the telephone network for computers. And nothing could be further from the truth.
The intended aim of this legislation was to assist various law enforcement agencies to undertake forensic analysis of network transactions. As the government claims: "telecommunications companies are retaining less data and keeping it for a shorter time. This is degrading the investigative capabilities of law enforcement and security agencies and, in some cases, has prevented serious criminals from being brought to justice." ( https://www.ag.gov.au/dataretention ). So what the agencies wanted was a regulation to compel ISPs to hold a record of their address assignment details so that the question "who was using this IP address at this time" had a definitive answer based on the retention of so-called meta-data records of who had what IP address when.
[Also Covered By]: Australia the idiot in the global village, says Geoff Huston
(Score: 4, Insightful) by davester666 on Friday September 04 2015, @04:48AM
You [the collective you] elected a right-wing fear monger. And now he's implementing the stuff he said he would when he was elected.
You are getting what you asked for.
Unlike the US, where Obama campaigned (for his first campaign] on reigning in spying on the US population, and promptly reneged on it once elected.
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday September 04 2015, @05:42AM
Not really. I am from NZ.
For us, the aussies have been the global village idiot for a century or so....
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Friday September 04 2015, @05:59AM
Ah. The Aussie rejects ;-)
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @06:37AM
Actually, when the Australian Federation was being framed, Western Australia was rluctant to sign on, so NZ was asked if they wanted to be part of the new Australian federation.
NZ had to reject the invitation due to that it would disenfranchise NZ women who where allowed to vote.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday September 04 2015, @07:26AM
Thanks for the further proof....not that it was needed. :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @10:57PM
How about "The Internet is Skynet" then? Or how one of the celebrities in New Zealand is a bloody sheep [wikipedia.org]?
I'm never particularly proud to say I'm from New Zealand with idiocy of that quality going on, and now some fuckwits want to change the flag to represent a bunch of halfwits we call the All Blacks? That's about as bad as the time that idiot sports announcer equated those nancy boys with "soldiers coming back from war" because they'd been off somewhere being overpaid to play a game.
Jesus on a fucking Harley.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Friday September 04 2015, @07:25AM
Does it matter? We can debate over how it happened and which one is more idiotic, but in the end we're in the same place and getting fsck'ed
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday September 04 2015, @08:02AM
Wrong, both parties fuck us - proof Labor was toying with it as well [efa.org.au] when in power, while the Liberals were... well... mocking an opposition to it [delimiter.com.au]. Nowadays, the law passed with bipartisan support [theguardian.com]
The only party represented in the Parliament which opposed it [greens.org.au] was the Greens [greensmps.org.au].
If you don't like being spied on, disable location tracking [abc.net.au] and consider voting Greens at the next election
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @05:46PM
Ahh so now that you know how political parties work I expect you to no longer throw vitriol at Americans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @09:10PM
We've known how it works for a long time, but we also know there isn't much that can be done under the current set of circumstances. Democracy has been dead for a long time at the 5 eyes, which is a great shame. The one hope we have is that the (unelected) employees of the various (unelected) agencies that run these countries will not forget that they too are part of this country and will quietly and calmly overturn what may soon become a stifling, totalitarian state.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday September 07 2015, @01:10AM
Mate,
Alternative to your suggestion, I can throw vitriol towards both sides and still be fair, isn't it?
(besides, I have a hunch that the metadata collection is something pushed very had by the main eye of the five, so I might be justified in throwing a bit more vitriol towards America)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by morgauxo on Friday September 04 2015, @02:11PM
Umm... what do you have to say about Obama's second term?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @05:29PM
Anyone who checked Obama's voting record and history could tell he was a liar.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @04:53AM
They're merely one village idiot among many.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @05:07AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @05:35AM
Village idiot with a badge.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Kell on Friday September 04 2015, @06:34AM
That's "Sheriff Idiot" to you, citizen.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @09:59AM
Hmm.. look up the Youtube video for "Der Sheriff" by D.A.F. (warning: might be NSFW, might get you "flagged" anti-USA, also it's quite a disturbing videoclip)
Note the lyrics (if you understand German): not a negative word. Everything carefully, neutrally worded.
Wenn der Sheriff reiten geht
reiten alle mit
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @12:31PM
We then get to say things like "the internet isn't fast enough in region XXX, bring the internet to there", establish a budget, and watch it enacted.
That said, like a real mayor, we end up saying things like "we are going to schedule trash pickup on Tuesdays with light trucks." and the companies say things like "we have a load of heavy trucks over here... we could double pickup". "I said light trucks on Tuesdays!".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @05:14AM
it has nothing to do with the internet at all
its just another avenue for tax and control
tfa is reading too much into it
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Friday September 04 2015, @05:20AM
When you read his whole blog, he vastly overstates the case.
He acts like IPs change every 6 miliseconds, and every page part download will generate a new IP assignment log entry.
The fact is that your IP address tends to stay stable for a rather long period of time, certainly for the duration of a page load, usually for the duration of your entire session. The IP might not be meaningful, it might be assigned to that particular coffee shop, with no way to pin it down to which customer's cellphone or laptop, because the coffee shop doesn't keep dhcp server logs.
So log each time Starbucks gets a new IP, (virtuall never) and let the government look at those to their hearts content. Once they figure out that isn't good enough they can come back and demand Starbucks keep dhcp server logs. Each level of the network can keep logs, and let the government search them all. Drowned them in data. Starbucks would tell them its impossible and offer them a latte.
There is no single end-to-end log, so give the government all the logs (that you have) or as many as you can cram down their throat before they say uncle. Let them go to the next NAT operator down the pike and get that guy's logs.
When we are all using ipv6, Maybe it all goes away and gets easier, or maybe there are still NATs (because nats have value beyond Ip sharing). But the carriers just need to stop bending over backward to help the government, and give the idiots what they have, and let them figure out its useless.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by radu on Friday September 04 2015, @05:58AM
They won't ask for logs, they'll ask for analysis of the logs. They'll ask things like "who wrote X on forum Y around June? You have that piece of information because you have the logs, so if you don't tell us, ..."
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Friday September 04 2015, @06:04AM
You tell them exactly what you have in your logs.
A list of IPs connected there at that time. If you read the story, the government isn't asking who wrote what, just who was connected.
So most of the IPs will lead to some NAT somewhere, and they can go chase that. They will soon tire of chasing their tail.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday September 04 2015, @01:53PM
Will they tire? I doubt it. Law enforcers always want more surveillance. Too often they see their jobs as catching the "bad" guys no matter what. If they could, they would put cameras on every street corner and door, and feed the video to facial recognition algorithms. We'd all have to walk around with Guy Fawkes masks, until the next advance renders that insufficient. They'd do the same with logs, have algorithms do the searching. Some laws should not be enforced. I particularly resent the use of our police and courts, paid for by us, to enforce laws that are actually thinly disguised agendas of monopolistic businesses, things like having the border guards seizing prescription drugs from seniors and outlawing underserved communities from creating their own ISPs.
I think the better play is to nip this in the bud, make it clear that such logging constitutes Australia's equivalent to an unreasonable search. Kill such proposals in the legislative sessions, and any that make it past that can be shot down in the courts.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Friday September 04 2015, @03:46PM
If they could, they would put cameras on every street corner and door, and feed the video to facial recognition algorithms.
Facial recognition algorithms are being developed right now. Whenever someone complains about surveillance in public places, people reply that you have no expectation of privacy in public places; this is despite the fact that mass surveillance is different from merely being seen by another human (with imperfect memory, no video feed being sent to a central organization, hiring humans to conduct surveillance would be prohibitively expensive, and normal humans are not nearly omnipresent), so it would be perfectly legitimate to have privacy from mass surveillance. Your fears are already coming to pass, and the situation will continue to get worse if it isn't stopped.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Friday September 04 2015, @07:20PM
Facial recognition algorithms are being developed right now.
That work has already been done. Your drivers license photo is stored with the pre-calculated reco numbers.
The point about no expectation of privacy is a good one.
We have a reasonable expectation of privacy as we go about our daily business in public, even if we might
fall into the sight line of John Q Public, John is unlikely to know who we are, where we live, where we work, and
have instant access to our banking records.
It is reasonable to be seen in public, by friends, foes, and even (occasionally) police officers. What is unreasonable
is for any of those people to have access to a full dossier, or to report that information to police, or to enter
that information into a computer for future use.
I suspect, in time, the GPS Tracking ruling [networkworld.com] will be expanded to require warrants for other means of tracking, via facial recognition, license plate readers, etc/ (Or at least it should).
Requiring a warrant to track a specific face, or license plate, would require the hardware/software to instantly discard any "non-hits" with no matching warrants. That's just about what every cop on the street does when they are looking for the Red Chevy Impala with Florida plates. Blue cars are pretty much ignored, unless they are doing something egregious. The Face Reco systems should do the same.
The argument is about the word "reasonable". Creating police databases of every person walking by a camera is not reasonable.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Whoever on Friday September 04 2015, @06:33AM
No, you misunderstand his case. He points to the adoption of carrier-grade NAT. Imagine that you have the logs of a website and you want to associate a particular web query with a real user endpoint. The website has an IP address, but that is only the IP address of an ISP's carrier-grade NAT exit point. How do you find the real source of the query?
In order to find the real query, you have to be able to associate the NAT-ed packets with a user. For that, the ISPs need to record a history of NAT-ed transactions. In other words, the ISPs have to record which websites (at least by IP address if not the URL) each user behind the NAT exit-point visited. Or, to put it another way, the ISPs have to record partial information on every user's Internet history (including browsing, email, etc.).
You seem to be under the misapprehension that ISPs won't be required to collect the necessary information. He proposes that they will be required to collect this.
Again, you misunderstand. He is asserting that the coffee shop will be mandated to keep this information and make it available.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ticho on Friday September 04 2015, @05:55AM
Have you been on the Internet lately? The correct term is "Global Idiot Village".
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday September 04 2015, @08:24AM
Don't go there, someone may be tempted to think of you as the Village's Global Idiot.
Otherwise, welcome to this world, where Sturgeon [wikipedia.org] have told you more than half a century ago to expect 90% of everything to be crap (weren't you paying attention?); why would Internet reflect something else?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by ticho on Friday September 04 2015, @08:26AM
Nah, I'm pretty much just a local idiot. :) I should travel more, I reckon...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday September 04 2015, @07:02AM
I have some acquaintance with actual Austrailians, and find them to be about average as humans go, maybe a bit more hospitable. But my perception is distorted by Monty Python. That, and Crocodile Dundee. And Steve Irwin, Crocodile something. But more to the point are Werner Herzog's movie "Where the Green Ants Dream", and the one with Peter Weller, "The Last Wave", and of course, "Pricilla, the Queen of the Desert". All those, and "Rabbitproof Fence." So we have a bunch of Brits, administerating over a bunch of Wollygongs and Criminals from the Old Country: what could possibly go wrong? I find that the Idiots in British Villages usually are world class, for some reason.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2015, @08:08AM
In addition, we find that those Poms whinge a lot.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 04 2015, @11:58AM
I have been curious to see Canada and Australia elect right-wing governments the past decade. Those countries have a lot more social welfare ingrained in their national structure than the United States. I've met surfers at Bondi who live off the dole and surf all the time. In Canada years ago I was told a man staged a series of robberies at Tim Horton's not by threatening to shoot anyone but by threatening to harm a goose; the patrons gave up their wallets for fear he would break its neck. None of that could happen in the US. So it seems odd that two societies where those things can be normal would choose politicians who share the political philosophy of Rupert Murdoch.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Informative) by zeigerpuppy on Saturday September 05 2015, @12:48AM
The people don't "choose" a government in modern democracies.
As you rightly mention, the populace obliges people like Rupert.
Why? Well, in Australia, we have the most controlled media in the first world;
The people would like to vote in their interest but the real issues are never aired on the media (only convenient smoke screens that the two parties can take faux positions on).
Therefore, the government doesn't care what the people think, they care what the media can tell them. The media shares interests with big business and powerful individuals, hence we end up with absurdities like the continuation of big coal (coal power companies have received more "green" grants in Australia than renewable energy companies).
We also had one of our prime ministers replaced by pressure over the mining tax. It's not even covert any more, the mining companies openly said that had a $400M fighting fund to sink the government in negative advertising. Goodbye Kevin Rudd, hello Julia Gillard (and her first announcement the next morning was: "we're reconsidering the mining tax").
It's time that the populace saw the farce for what it is,
There have been some moves to reclaim representation (Senators online) but the system at the moment is far from functional.
Democracy is dead, long live Democracy!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 05 2015, @11:01AM
It sounds like this is something that needs to happen on a global scale, then, because you could have written that about America and it would have been equally true.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by zeigerpuppy on Tuesday September 08 2015, @12:34PM
right on, it's a bit of a con really,
notice how they try out the really weird and nasty laws in the UK, AUS or US first and then ship them to the other counties