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posted by cmn32480 on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the faster-than-a-speeding-bullet dept.

This one looks like a fun how-to paper [PDF] to try over the holiday.

I thought I was doing well with my 7 second boot time, but now realize how maudlin that is. Has anyone done this kind of optimization? Worth doing?


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:19PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:19PM (#269123)

    > I thought I was doing well with my 7 second boot time, but now realize how maudlin that is.

    maudlin [merriam-webster.com] adjective
    1: drunk enough to be emotionally silly
    2: weakly and effusively sentimental

    example: He became maudlin and started crying like a child.

    Booting in 7 seconds makes you cry like a child?

    • (Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:08PM

      by Francis (5544) on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:08PM (#269140)

      It's probably correct if the writer is even considering spending time to get the boot time down from 7 seconds to 1. It would take a great deal of time to pay back any effort. This is mostly something do as a hobby, or in an enterprise setting where that 6 seconds is multiplied across hundreds of computers that get turned on every day. Even then it's questionable if it's worthwhile as there are systems that turn computers on automatically at the appropriate time that would save all of the time.

    • (Score: 1) by zimluura on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:39PM

      by zimluura (4538) on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:39PM (#269147)

      Just checked the comments after looking that word up. Now I feel like I wasted 35 boot-ups when I should've just read the comments.

      Now wasting more boot-ups trying to write this comment.

      Ahgg!!! This is Pandora's can of worms!!!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:06PM (#269259)

        All that wasted time posting here, it'll take years to make a return on it. Better slit your wrists now.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:26PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:26PM (#269126)

    15 seconds ought to be enough for anybody

  • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:54PM

    by jmorris (4844) on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:54PM (#269136)

    If you are booting on a PC the POST takes so much longer that further optimizing of boot times is questionable. If you are booting on a platform without a BIOS but booting into Android it's upper layers take so much longer than the kernel it again isn't worth making it go much faster. If you are booting a TV or router it probably is worth it but my TV runs Linux and it already boots in a couple of seconds so what was the story again? My TV is a 2010 model.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:04PM (#269138)

      so what was the story again?

      Presumably boot times on a laptop. Mine boots in around 10s, it's a Chromebook and I've not flashed with sea bios so I get dismissable sea bios page, dismissable boot menu, a page of retarded systemd errors and then a login prompt.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @05:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @05:37PM (#269159)
        On a laptop restoring from hibernate times could still be slow.

        Restoring 8GB to 16GB of RAM from SSD would still take some time even at 500MB/sec. Compression could speed things up if you use a method that's really quick to decompress.

        In theory you could suspend to ram and write the hibernate file - and restore from RAM if the laptop doesn't power off completely due to battery or power saving reasons; and restore from hibernate if the laptop had to go off completely.

        Normally wake from sleep works fine, but in some unfortunate cases that's broken (e.g. OS+drivers doesn't set enough of the hardware back to the required states).

        To those who suggest shutdown and close everything, reopening all the stuff would take even longer. What's the point of having RAM if you don't use it ;).
        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:02PM

          by isostatic (365) on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:02PM (#269166) Journal

          My laptop has issues if the temperature goes up. Trundles along at 70C, then I do something silly in KSP and the temperature climbs. The fan comes on, but too slowly, and bang - 100C and it shuts down.

          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:12PM

            by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:12PM (#269230) Journal

            Take it apart, re-grease the heat sinks on the chips, blow out the air-races, and blow the built-up crap off that fan.

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Saturday November 28 2015, @10:24PM

            by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Saturday November 28 2015, @10:24PM (#269249) Homepage Journal

            My mom put my laptop on top of the DVR. It almost melted the plastic and started a fire. It warped the fan so the mfan doesn't work. I put a box fans blowing into the vent hole. Its worked for a long time but now its shutting down. I feel for ya!

            God bless moms heart though.

            --
            jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @07:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @07:49PM (#269199)

          To those who suggest shutdown and close everything, reopening all the stuff would take even longer. What's the point of having RAM if you don't use it ;).

          What's the point in powering RAM if you're not using it -- especially when a laptop boots in under 10 seconds?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29 2015, @07:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29 2015, @07:59PM (#269500)

            What's the point in powering RAM if you're not using it -- especially when a laptop boots in under 10 seconds?

            You should power RAM if you can as already mentioned:

            Normally wake from sleep works fine, but in some unfortunate cases that's broken (e.g. OS+drivers doesn't set enough of the hardware back to the required states).

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:10PM

      by isostatic (365) on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:10PM (#269141) Journal

      POST on some HP servers can take 5 minutes plus, especially if you network boot.

      If you want a fast linux bootup, use a container, you can start up a fullblown centos or ubuntu OS in well under a second

      laptop$ cat /etc/lsb-release; echo ""; time docker run centos cat /etc/redhat-release;
      DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
      DISTRIB_RELEASE=14.04
      DISTRIB_CODENAME=trusty
      DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS"

      CentOS Linux release 7.1.1503 (Core)

      real 0m0.223s

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:14PM

        by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:14PM (#269232) Journal

        No, because you then have to add the power up time of the host machine. You've created an artificial environment which you assume never has to be rebooted.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday November 28 2015, @10:32PM

          by isostatic (365) on Saturday November 28 2015, @10:32PM (#269251) Journal

          But as a reboot spends 5 minutes in POST, why does it matter if it's 1 second, 5 seconds or 30 seconds in init? Especially considering the number of times I actually reboot, and considering that the services my machines give can survive the loss of a host.

          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:14PM

            by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:14PM (#269260) Journal

            True, but that host is going to go down sooner or later anyway.

            I had one of those long POSTing machines, A Dell rackmount 2U server as I recall, and after waiting forever a few dozen times I realized it was never going to show an error in POST, so I disabled the POST altogether in the BIOS. The only time we ever turned it back on was when we made hardware or memory additions, and then only for a couple reboots.

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:49PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:49PM (#269185)

      There is a much bigger reason why that optimization isn't worth it: Booting is something that is done quite rarely. As in, typically, at most a couple of times a day. For something done rarely, the difference between 45 seconds and 10 seconds is basically nothing. As in, unless you work in, say, emergency medicine, that 35 seconds is completely meaningless and not worth the effort to get rid of.

      In other words, the usual Rules of Optimization apply:
      1. Don't.
      2. (Experts only) Don't yet.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:56PM

        by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:56PM (#269225) Journal

        Couple times a day? Gaaak!

        Maybe once a week for me, but only if I get a new kernel or something. I've often gone a month or more on a laptop with no reboot, and well in excess of a year on servers.

        On my daily production workstation:
        Close laptop lid.
        Automatic Suspend to ram

        Some hours (or even days) later...

        Open laptop lid
        Automatic Resume from suspend. 5 seconds to Password prompt, 1 second after, - Exactly where I left off.

        And this on old-is hardware.
        I just can't see me investing even half an hour on getting this down to 1 second,

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:41PM

          by Nuke (3162) on Saturday November 28 2015, @11:41PM (#269266)
          once a week ? You're messing about!

          I only shutdown my main desktop PC (a massive tower) when I am upgrading it.
        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Sunday November 29 2015, @02:40AM

          by Gaaark (41) on Sunday November 29 2015, @02:40AM (#269316) Journal

          Couple times a day? Gaaak!

          It's Gaaark... Gaaark.

          Now write it down 100 times so you'll have it memorized....

          I'll do it with you! Or i would; but first i have to reboot my laptop and that takes FOREVER! Gaaak!

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday November 29 2015, @04:22AM

            by frojack (1554) on Sunday November 29 2015, @04:22AM (#269341) Journal

            If you call him, he will come. Kibo, is that you?

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Thexalon on Sunday November 29 2015, @01:16PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Sunday November 29 2015, @01:16PM (#269425)

          That's why I said "at most": Even a quite pessimistic estimate still led to the same conclusion about how pointless focusing on boot times is.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by citizenr on Sunday November 29 2015, @03:42AM

      by citizenr (2737) on Sunday November 29 2015, @03:42AM (#269329)

      My AsRock skips all that and POSTs under 1 second (cant even get into bios in fast mode, you need to reset bios or get to bios from windows). Furthermore Win10 will also boot under 1 second (on old mechanical HDD) if you didnt cut power from the last shutdown, combination of str and hibernation is enabled by default on all W10 installs.

    • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday November 29 2015, @12:05PM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday November 29 2015, @12:05PM (#269419) Journal

      That is why its a damned shame that Splashtop died, because if you wanted a Linux based system that was damned near instant on that pretty much bypassed the BIOS? Splashtop. I have a EEE-PC netbook that came with Expressgate (Asus rebranded Splashtop) and its great for when I just need to look something up on the road or need to test the networking on a possibly compromised network.

      That said I can see why it died as with an SSD I can have my full Windows desktop in sub 20 seconds and that is with me having all these extras running in the tray like Asus AI Suite and Steam, I'm sure if I just wanted a fast boot I could turn off the extras and get it under 10 seconds with ease.

      --
      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:59PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 28 2015, @03:59PM (#269137) Journal

    My "boot time" is only 6 or 7 seconds - after I get past the BIOS and the RAID screens. I haven't actually timed it, but I think I spend a minute or more at those two screens. That's one good reason not to reboot very often. The thing that gets me about the RAID is, I don't even use the hardware RAID. MDADM provides the RAID, but there aren't enough SATA plugs on the mainboard, so I added the card just for the additional SATA plugs.

    To be fair, server boards were never meant to be used as a workstation. It was designed for an entirely different work flow.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:08PM

      by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:08PM (#269228) Journal

      I don't even use the hardware RAID. MDADM provides the RAID,

      Mine too. I've never lost any data, even with disk failures over the years.
      You want the dumbest SATA boards you can find for MDADM. (Even fake-raid cards work if you jumper them to turn off the raid and just use them for the headers).

      The nice thing about MDADM is that you can mix devices and speeds and sizes, and when your machine gets faster, your raid benefits as well, whereas the raid boards run at the same clunky speed they were born with. I trashed my last raid board 12 years ago.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:24PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:24PM (#269240) Journal

        Jumpers. I didn't think of that. I guess I can go looking for documentation. Thanks for the idea - I can't just hit a key, and dismiss that RAID screen.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Illop on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:17PM

    by Illop (2741) on Saturday November 28 2015, @04:17PM (#269143)

    My default response to people bitching about boot times now (since I moved my slack14.1 workstation to kernel 4.1.13) is "what is this boot/reboot thing you speak of?". Love hot patching.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Gravis on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:02PM

    by Gravis (4596) on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:02PM (#269165)

    it's worth noting that this is not an x86 PC. x86 chips have their own requirements and BIOS issues which are all very proprietary and close source, so this was an ARM based system. Also, it's a bootstrapped kernel, so you lose the ability to choose which kernel you want when you boot. If they could streamline the bootstrapping process and maybe put in an emergency "slow boot" system (like holding ESC while booting). However, it would be a "killer feature" for an ARM laptop to have an "instant boot" that gets you to the login screen before you are done opening the lid.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:37PM (#269217)

      Yeah. TFA (PDF) is about embedded stuff.

      As for x86 stuff, last Summer, Ikey Doherty's 2nd go at an OS called Solus was making headlines for its 1.2 second boot time. [google.com]
      (No spinning rust involved, obviously.)

      With several having been missed, Ikey has stopped announcing a release date for Solus 1.0 but it will likely go gold in December.
      Distro hoppers will want to check out this new offering with its built-from-scratch desktop environment called Budgie.
      This week, it was announced Solus Is Getting Its Own UEFI Boot Loader Forked from gummiboot [softpedia.com]

      Ken Starks was using the previous "Solus" distro for Project HeliOS (computers for kids) until several coincident situations in Ikey's personal life caused Ikey to stop development on that project.
      The new distro (using the same name as the previous effort) has more developers this time.

      -- gewg_

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:33PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @06:33PM (#269179)

    I had an HP Jornada 820 that had Windows CE in Rom, boot time was as long as it took the screen to come on, which was a few seconds unless you did a reset. Updates would be a PITA, as something like these had no hard drive. Is there a future where Linux could be loaded into ROM or PROM and have some way of updating it via BIOS or some other method?

  • (Score: 2) by Ken_g6 on Saturday November 28 2015, @07:54PM

    by Ken_g6 (3706) on Saturday November 28 2015, @07:54PM (#269201)

    $ uptime
      12:52:20 up 79 days, 19:25, 14 users,  load average: 6.97, 7.07, 7.13

    • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:17PM

      by cockroach (2266) on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:17PM (#269204)

      What's with that load average?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 28 2015, @08:33PM (#269214)

        Really, mine is 0.83, 1.10, 1.22 and I'm running Seti@home

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:01PM

        by frojack (1554) on Saturday November 28 2015, @09:01PM (#269226) Journal

        What's with that load average?

        Its called "Return on Investment".

        Its way higher than mine at moment, but when I'm doing a system recompile or something, I often step to another desktop or virtual machine and read me some soylentnews, or email etc.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29 2015, @05:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29 2015, @05:23AM (#269353)

        My guess is that the system is has eight or more cores and is doing a lot of useful work.

        Alternatively, he may be using his computer as a space heater 'cause it's cold outside in the northern hemisphere.