The Obama administration said on Friday that it would go ahead with the scheduled closure of the National Security Agency's bulk phone records collection program. The USA Freedom Act, which passed in early June, outlined this weekend's deadline.
Now, instead of the NSA keeping the metadata onsite, the organization will theoretically have to obtain a warrant from the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) to request metadata pertaining to a person or a group from a telecom company.
Privacy advocates largely pulled their support for this reform effort before the USA Freedom Act was passed, saying that the language in the bill was too vague and noting that no "probable cause" standard was required to be granted a warrant through FISC.
[Editor's Note: This deadline passed at midnight on Saturday, November 28, 2015.]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by BsAtHome on Sunday November 29 2015, @07:40PM
And the second beyond they will have another method to obtain the same data by yet more illegal ways but they are not yet known. They will already have a new new method when the new one gets blown open.
Call me a skeptic, but trusting "we will stop doing this", from the people who have lied for so many years and found new ways to abuse the system, is not enough. Their data-centers are still growing...
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 29 2015, @08:41PM
The work-around has only been in place for at least 40 years. Before the internet even, the work-around was there. Our intel services spy on Great Britain's citizens, and GCHQ spies on US citizens. The two services then swap data between themselves. Each can say, with a straight face, that they don't spy on the citizens of their own countries. Today, it's the "Five Eyes". The agreement has certainly been expanded to include the other members. So, instead of us, the US citizens only having the NSA spying on us, we'll now have four foreign entities spying on us, and reporting to the NSA.
Seriously, I knew about that little facade before I ever owned a modem, before I ever used a cell phone. We have a long, long history of freindly spying between us.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Sunday November 29 2015, @09:23PM
Five eyes is fine, I think Nine-Eyes will be where the problem is. Then, and only then, will MI6 step in and save the day with cars, gadgets, and sex.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday November 29 2015, @10:05PM
Our intel services spy on Great Britain's citizens, and GCHQ spies on US citizens.
That is NOT what's happening in this situation.
US phone calls are not routed through Great Britain. The Brits have zero chance of intercepting and recording all that call metadata nor record the calls. They have zero chance of telling AT&T to route all calls through a locked room in one of their switching centers.
I have ZERO confidence that the NSA which isn't supposed to be operating inside the USA, will actually shut down its data grab just because they said they would. But I'm rather confident they won't ask GCHQ for the same data.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 29 2015, @10:12PM
You're correct, but you're not using your imagination. NSA already has the hardware in place to spy on US citizens. They invite GCHQ to take over the controls. So, 300 NSA agents get out of their seats, to be replaced by 300 Brits. And, on the other side of the pond, 300 Brits vacate their seats, and before they start to cool, 300 American asses plop into those seats. Suddenly, there are no Americans spying on Americans, or Brits spying on Brits, only because they've played musical chairs.
End of the day, the spying will continue, and all the governments involved get the same data they've been getting all along.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday November 29 2015, @11:45PM
No, what will happen is that all calls will be routed through centers near (*) where the offshore cables come ashore, where all the international call data will be scooped up, plus "incidentally" all the domestic call details.
* near means within 100 miles.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday November 30 2015, @02:45AM
Carriers aren't going to do that, because the call volume internal to the US would saturate undersea cables to the point where the internet would fail. This would piss off enough carriers to cause some of them to bitch and spill the beans.
Then all hell breaks loose.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Monday November 30 2015, @03:16AM
I did not say that they would actually route the calls into the transatlantic cables. Check the Snowdon reports, the NSA already used this technique (tapping into hubs "near" where the cables land) to tap into domestic communications (as "incidental" collection).
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday November 30 2015, @04:17AM
You are wrong on the facts.
The tapping into cable landings is to gather foreign cmmunications that just happens to transit the US. So all Brazil's cables route through the US, as do Mexico, and China and Japan, simply because the US happens to be in the path.
But US calls of the kind that the NSA has been gathering never leave the US, so the NSA has been tapping into Telco datacenters.
Try to keep your facts straight here. Yes I know, the NSA has so many programs going on its hard to tell who's on first. But THIS conversation is about metadata and sometimes full recordings of internal US calls to/from other internal US callers. That is the only data gathering that is coming to an end.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Monday November 30 2015, @04:45AM
And you keep misconstruing what I wrote. I never said that the NSA intercepted communications at the cable landings. My claim is that communications that transit datacenters NEAR the cable landings have been tapped. This has been written about.
You are wrong on the facts here. Collection under THIS ONE PROGRAM stopping. If the NSA has another way to get the same information, they will use that other way.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday November 30 2015, @07:15AM
But THIS conversation is about metadata and sometimes full recordings of internal US calls to/from other internal US callers. That is the only data gathering that is coming to an end.
You are wrong on the facts here. Collection under THIS ONE PROGRAM stopping. If the NSA has another way to get the same information, they will use that other way.
You really do have a reading problem don't you!!
Even when you quote me immediately above, you still call me wrong and then correct me by stating the EXACT same thing.
You, sir, are an idiot.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Whoever on Monday November 30 2015, @04:09PM
No. You have a problem writing clear arguments.
You said "the collection of metadata is ending". I said "one program that collects metadata is ending". If you can't see the difference in that, well, just go home. If you meant to say "one program that collects metadata is ending", well, you need to learn how to express yourself.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Monday November 30 2015, @08:45AM
Yes. Canada is an excellent location to do it though. It works for internet traffic, so why not telephone traffic, particularly now that it's primarily digital as well.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday November 29 2015, @09:05PM
Nah, they only have to stop collecting it under the law that expired. They're still allowed to collect it under an executive order that hasn't.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by cykros on Monday November 30 2015, @12:59PM
The idea that I'm supposed to be happy that AT&T is holding the data the NSA used to in a less secure manner than the NSA was doing just so the NSA can have it if they want to is a little insane to me. This was political showmanship and nothing else. If anything, this is WORSE than when the NSA was collecting the data themselves, as I'll trust them to maintain a secure database before I'll trust the private sector.
I'd almost wager that they wanted to do this before Snowden, but that they didn't want to publicize the program and couldn't keep it under wraps if they did so. With the Snowden leaks out, it just sounds like an improvement to the casual observer.
(Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Monday November 30 2015, @01:44PM
As I told my idiot Representative to the US House the USA FREEDOM act makes it easier for them to collect the data as it requires that phone companies keep this data. As the phone company is a 3rd party all the NSA, FBI, CIA, etc. have to do is ask, sometimes by sending a stern letter, and they phone companies will just hand it over. No warrant needed, no FISA court, no questionable constitutional authority needed. Not everything is all cloak a dagger with these people often it is already out there in plain view.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29 2015, @07:50PM
Companies are going to be forced to keep the data for the government's use. This is still every bit as dangerous and doesn't solve a damn thing, as the issue always was the collection and storage of the information for government use. Companies must not be forced to store this data for the government, and the government must not collect it either; that's the only solution.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 30 2015, @12:07AM
It's even more dangerous because now the MAFIAA also has access to it.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Justin Case on Sunday November 29 2015, @08:52PM
Of course they will still hoover up all the data they can, through means from devious to outright illegal and deeply offensive to the rule of law, liberty, the constitution, and everything else they tell us America once stood for.
Nevertheless, cue the next scareorrist attack in 3..2..1..... which we could have prevented, for sure, if only those mean government-haters hadn't taken away our toys.
(Score: 2) by http on Sunday November 29 2015, @09:15PM
s/secretive/compliant/;
I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
(Score: 1) by Cornwallis on Sunday November 29 2015, @09:27PM
That's when the monkeys are going to start flying out of my butt.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 30 2015, @12:29AM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gravis on Sunday November 29 2015, @09:45PM
this is just slight of hand because while the NSA isn't collecting it directly, don't think for a second that they aren't still collecting it all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 30 2015, @12:41AM
... under this program.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 30 2015, @10:53AM
*inhale* HAHAHAAAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH