Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by cmn32480 on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:19PM   Printer-friendly
from the people-who-should-be-fired dept.

They bad-mouth you to work colleagues behind your back; they angrily demand the impossible from everyone but themselves; they make unwanted comments about your attire.

At some point in our careers, most of us have come across someone known as a "toxic worker," a colleague or boss whose abrasive style or devious actions can make the workday utterly miserable. Such people hurt morale, stoke conflict in the office, and harm a company's reputation.

But toxic workers aren't just annoying or unpleasant to be around; they cost firms significantly more money than most of them even realize. According to a new Harvard Business School (HBS) paper, toxic workers are so damaging to the bottom line that avoiding them or rooting them out delivers twice the value to a company that hiring a superstar performer does.

While a top 1 percent worker might return $5,303 in cost savings to a company through increased output, avoiding a toxic hire will net an estimated $12,489, the study said. That figure does not include savings from sidestepping litigation, regulatory penalties, or decreased productivity as a result of low morale.

On the other hand, toxic co-workers are useful as foils come bonus time: "Hey, at least I'm not as bad as that guy..."


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:30PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:30PM (#271473)

    No shit, a piss drop ruins the whole bottle of whiskey. This is authoritative - how? I am the toxic worker, asshole.

    "Paper" from HBS? Those fucking einsteins.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:39PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:39PM (#271479) Journal

      If all we did was rely on common sense, well, the earth really does look flat...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM (#271485)

        I know it's slightly pedantic, but Earth does look slightly round if you view the horizon of a large body of water...

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:57PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:57PM (#271495) Journal

          I think circular is more accurate here as "round" can refer to either spherical or circular.

          So for a watery horizon with nothing but water, that would look circular. A watery horizon where ships come and go over the horizon, that would imply spherical, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull-down [wikipedia.org] .

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @08:45AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @08:45AM (#271732)

            That's not evidence for a spherical earth, that's just a sign of the light falling down, just as everything else does. The light coming from the lower parts of the ship has fallen into the water before it reaches your eye. ;-)

        • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:04PM

          by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:04PM (#271562) Homepage

          I have had the fortune of visiting this place: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%81%E3%82%AD%E3%82%A6%E5%B2%AC [wikipedia.org]

          From there, the view quite clearly indicates that the Earth is spherical.

          --
          Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM (#271487)

        Rely on the authoritative voice - me. You should have listened when they told you reading is fundamental.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:07PM (#271535)

      Keep up the good work Ethanol. Those Navy men need more assholes like you.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:53PM (#271558)

        The AC you're addressing can't be Ethanol: he invoked 'einstein' without a jew slur...

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by stormwyrm on Friday December 04 2015, @12:15AM

      by stormwyrm (717) on Friday December 04 2015, @12:15AM (#271625) Journal

      Certainly it's an obvious thing on the face of it. What is not so obvious is how much hiring a toxic worker could actually cost a company. FTFA:

      Looking at the existing academic literature on negative performance, Minor said it soon became clear how little is known about who these workers are, where they come from, how productive they are, or what effect they have on organizations and other employees. And because of privacy restrictions, much of that research is based on laboratory results, not real life.

      The results of the paper show that it seems to require at least three top 1% workers to make up for the cost to the company of a single toxic worker on average, which is a bit startling. That might convince management that it'll be worth the effort to be able to weed out such people. The thing is these "toxic workers" can actually seem to be good for the company since they can generally work hard and make a manager think like they're hitting the numbers.

      Getting rid of toxic workers is often difficult because they're also more likely to be high performers, or to be perceived as such, which can blunt or blind supervisors to the true depth of their impact on the workplace.

      "A natural question I get from people is 'Why would anyone have a toxic worker? That's crazy!'" said Minor. "But then you realize they're incredibly productive. And so, it makes sense then that maybe managers would look the other way because they're really hitting all their productivity numbers."

      ...

      Hiring decisions that only consider an applicant's potential upside, or prioritize it over other traits and skills, open the door to toxic workers, said Minor.

      --
      Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
      • (Score: 2) by bootsy on Friday December 04 2015, @10:27AM

        by bootsy (3440) on Friday December 04 2015, @10:27AM (#271754)

        I agree with your points but would add that in Europe it can be very difficult to actually fire these people. We don't have at will employment so even if you identify such a person and even if they have had diciplinary action against them it still takes ages to remove them from the company.

        They often simply get moved from one team to another and that has issues as they can claim constructive dismissal.

        This is one of the reasons why so many UK companies use contractors for IT as they are much, much easier to get rid of and you don't have to provide a justification for it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @11:54PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @11:54PM (#272002)
          Which is why the article's focus is on identifying and avoiding hiring such people in the first place.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:34PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:34PM (#271476)
    Yeah. Someone go tell the police force about weeding out toxic workers. Preferably not while Black...
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:52PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:52PM (#271491) Homepage

      I've dealt with this firsthand many times. Any organization's worst nightmare is a toxic co-worker in one or more protected categories. Black, bipolar, retarded, adopted as a kid, and missing a foot?

      Other than their punching somebody in the face there's nothing that can get them removed from the organization. The guy I mentioned above (yes, it's a true story) was sent to the turkey farm (that one department where all fuckups get transferred until they leave or retire, I actually learned the phrase "turkey farm" from somebody here) before I was hired. Well, turns out the turkey farm actually needed new employees to do the job the turkey farm actually did, so I was hired unknowingly directly into the turkey farm with Black Retard as my boss. After going home angry on a daily basis dealing with Black Retard's abusive behavior, I lead a coup to overthrow him (obviously a dickhead like that doesn't have many coworkers as allies) and after over a year involving bombarding HR and consultants being called in, Black Retard was given a lateral movement where he got to be paid to sit around all day and do jack shit.

      I guess you could call it a win-win situation, even though that guy probably cost the company a total of tens of millions in salary and lost productivity.

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:44PM (#271552)

        so I was hired unknowingly directly into the turkey farm

        Hahaha... Oh WOW... That's cute that you believe that!

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:47PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:47PM (#271555) Journal

        You ended up in the turkey farm. The "Black Retard," didn't.
         
        I'm sure he was the problem....

        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:33PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:33PM (#271567) Homepage

          To reply to both you and the other goddamn idiot above you - I was hired directly into the turkey-farm because that was the position and department advertised, and there was demand for technicians who performed that specific function. It's not like they baited and switched me and said, "well, we think you're a better fit for another department" and made me compromise. Nor was I transferred, I spent my entire tenure in the department and there were no opportunities for advancement for anybody in the company, much less lil' ol' me.

          If you're hired as a repair technician, as an example, to work in the repair department, is it obvious from the job title and department alone that the company considers the repair department the turkey-farm? Maybe they did actually need another person to help fix angry customers' shit and production couldn't take a hit giving a costly-to-train man to repair.

          There were, however, plenty of other people who were transferred into the hypothetical repair department because they had fucked up somewhere else. Black Retard was previously in a more prestigious customer-facing department but was transferred to the turkey-farm before I was hired, after he had pissed off too many already-angry customers. Oh, and I'd like to add that the person who hired Black Retard in the first place was his college buddy and former roommate.

          As another poster pointed out lower down, one of the surest ways to detect a toxic employee is if they were blatantly unqualified and hired as a result of nepotism.

          So I challenge you or anybody else to answer this question -- are there any departments common to most companies (except the "diversity" department, which is obvious anywhere) which could be assumed to be turkey-farms? Or do you believe what I do, which is that which department is the turkey farm depends the culture and history of that particular organization?

          " B-b-but MUH Glassdoor "

          In a super-niche industry and with only 2 generic reviews, Glassdoor isn't much help, is it?

          • (Score: 4, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 03 2015, @10:17PM

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday December 03 2015, @10:17PM (#271587) Journal

            are there any departments common to most companies (except the "diversity" department, which is obvious anywhere) which could be assumed to be turkey-farms?
             
            Yes! Let me know which department you work for now and I'll tell you where the turkey farm is.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by q.kontinuum on Friday December 04 2015, @12:14AM

            by q.kontinuum (532) on Friday December 04 2015, @12:14AM (#271624) Journal

            was hired directly into the turkey-farm

            Well, they sure know a natural when they see one...

            --
            Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @04:06PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @04:06PM (#271829)

              Not everyone that lands in these places is there because they are incompetent. The screw ups are put there because they can not cause much more damage there. I worked at a place like that. Once that division was bought out? The parent company cleaned house to make it look more profitable. All that was left was people who could do stuff. The stranglers? We got rid of them in under a year.

              The screwups were easy to spot. They usually were transferred in. The rest were hired in to actually do the work.

              It was always 'interesting'. "why is he here shouldnt he be some VP somewhere?" "oh yeah he got caught doing ..." almost every time.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Dunbal on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:20PM

        by Dunbal (3515) on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:20PM (#271609)

        Any organization's worst nightmare is a toxic co-worker in one or more protected categories.

        Only because there's no such thing as a manager with balls. You ARE allowed to fire people you know. At some point defending yourself from a POSSIBLE lawsuit (which is not all that hard if you have documented evidence that the guy is fucking up business in more ways than one) is cheaper than keeping him on. Lawyers aren't all that expensive, especially if they already work for the company. You can't fire someone for being black or retarded but you certainly CAN fire someone for being an ass, not doing their job, talking shit and being abusive to other employees, etc.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:46PM

    by NotSanguine (285) <{NotSanguine} {at} {SoylentNews.Org}> on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:46PM (#271484) Homepage Journal

    I really do dislike 'smile to your face, stab you in the back' folks.

    When it comes to jerks, I much prefer the ones who are completely up front about their assholishness (assholitude?).

    That said, I've found that most people try to be decent human beings, in the workplace and otherwise. Sadly, the few that aren't usually drive away the best people, either by design or, more often, by creating a bad working environment.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:23PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:23PM (#271510)

      I've met the schemers, and the in your facers, but the most interesting was the clueless a-hole - I really think that he didn't know he was being a jerk 90% of the time that he was doing it. He was a bright guy in many ways, and I'm certain he knew that everyone thought he was a jerk, but he wasn't bright enough to know that he had it good where he was (too much of a hassle to fire him) and went off "to greener pastures" where they quickly canned him.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:38PM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:38PM (#271569) Journal

        That's one of the primary attributes of people like that. Some work, done fairly recently and receiving a fair bit of attention, showed that the least competent people are also the most clueless about their lack, tend to believe the opposite, actually.

        There are a lot of different ways to go wrong. Perhaps a common trait of all is an unwillingness or incapacity to privately admit error or even mere uncertainty, learn from mistakes. Publicly admitting error is too often seen as weak, giving enemies the opening they need to take a person down, but the person who isn't willing to do that even privately is going to push on down a bad road until they drive everyone and everything off a cliff. Sometimes they see changing directions as an implicit and still very public admission of error. I've seen that happen, seen the contract canceled and the entire group fired.

        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday December 03 2015, @10:00PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Thursday December 03 2015, @10:00PM (#271577) Homepage

          There are two types of social retards - those who are assholes and those who aren't.

          Those who aren't are the ones who smell, tell knock-knock jokes, perhaps driving a beat-up Gremlin with Star Trek stickers all over it. Even though they can be annoying at times when they ambush you in the hallway to tell you about some obscure thing for hours on end, they're harmless and often lovable.

          Some are condescending jerks. They are distinguished from the real jerks by not being aware of their jerkdom, jerkdom is not only their nature but they're too stupid to realize it. What those are, are punks in need of a good ass-kicking.

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:05PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:05PM (#271604)

            Sadly, there's a significant portion of the clueless jerks who will remain clueless after repeated ass kickings. Used to be the ass kickings got done in school and fixed the fixable, but I wonder if that's still true today.

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:43PM

      by frojack (1554) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:43PM (#271519) Journal

      Yes, but isn't this like the 14th time this study has been done, and at least the third time its posted here?

      It seems like every time somebody decides that they work with a "toxic" coworker they launch another study.
      And each time the solution proposed is to get these people out of the work place at all costs. Most of the time all it takes is one good kick in the ass to get these people to at least temporarily stop being disruptive. A lot depends on the ability of a boss to detect this type of behavior in their staff, and quickly handle it. So many PHBs are only vaguely aware of what is going on in their fiefdom that they totally miss these people. (And some of these people are pretty good brown-nosers)

      However, I've also seen cases where people who are labeled toxic are simply those that won't "go along to get along", and actually insist on doing the work they were hired to do. You have to wonder how many of these are drummed out only to come back and win Whistleblower lawsuits.

      (PS: I thing one should have to get a license and a court order in order to use the word "toxic" these days. Its way way over used, and 99% of the time it is used inappropriately. - But that's just my toxicity speaking I suppose).

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:05PM (#271531)

        toxic

      • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday December 04 2015, @01:28AM

        Yes, but isn't this like the 14th time this study has been done, and at least the third time its posted here?

        But, but, toxic! But, but butthurt! Someone is wrong, somewhere! We need to quantify it and set it right or we're all doomed!

        Did I mention, but, but butthurt?!?

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @06:48PM (#271486)

    why not go a step further and declare darkness the new standard?
    intel and m$ are both toxic and nobody (that's me) complains ...

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:00PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:00PM (#271560)

      We already know the TCO is higher for microsoft in the workplace, so that fits.

      --
      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by srobert on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:02PM

    by srobert (4803) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:02PM (#271499)

    A friend and coworker engineer used me for a reference recently when he applied for a new job. I got a call from his prospective employer. The guy didn't ask me anything at all about my friend's engineering ability. He just wanted to know whether my friend was easy to get along with.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:18PM (#271508)

      A good resume should him all he needs to know about engineering ability. References exist to tell the rest of the story.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:47PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:47PM (#271554)

        When was the last time you included a reference that may give an unflattering side of you?

  • (Score: 2) by Username on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:07PM

    by Username (4557) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:07PM (#271500)

    I give my coworkers shit every day, and they give it right back. Call me toxic if you want, but I would hate to work in a safe space. It would be boring and high on the anxiety scale.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by frojack on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:47PM

      by frojack (1554) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:47PM (#271521) Journal

      Word of advice:

      Do not give shit to a woman or minority, (especially a new hire) because even though you thought everyone knew you were kidding, it WILL come back to bite you sooner or later. And you will pay dearly.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @08:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @08:30AM (#271724)

        because even though you thought everyone knew you were kidding, it WILL come back to bite you sooner or later. And you will pay dearly.

        hmm that sounds like a toxic working environment... ;)

      • (Score: 2) by Nr_9 on Friday December 04 2015, @08:47AM

        by Nr_9 (2947) on Friday December 04 2015, @08:47AM (#271734)

        Word of advice:

        Do not give shit to a woman or minority, (especially a new hire) because even though you thought everyone knew you were kidding, it WILL come back to bite you sooner or later. And you will pay dearly.

        Also, people that are bullied will often pretend not to take offense. That doesn't mean the bullier isn't being a dick... Women and minorities gets these kind of attitudes thrown at them all the time. Of course they will be more offended than some brogrammer.

        I've been in the opposite position right after high school, the only man and a new hire working under a bunch of middle aged women. I quit after a month of swallowing shit and being treated like garbage. Not all of them were bad, but some where. All of them closed ranks on me when I complained, however, because my way of solving problems were completely different from theirs. All because of the social dynamics, where I was on the bottom of the totem pole and a different gender.

        What I'm trying to say is that you should try to have some empathy with "women and minorities" when it comes to communicating, especially if you are in a male-dominated work space.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DutchUncle on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:34PM

      by DutchUncle (5370) on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:34PM (#271544)

      "Toxic" isn't about having a "very casual" workplace style; it's about being an a**hole. That said, I'll agree with the other respondent: There will always be people who don't take the joke, or even just walk by the door without knowing the "casual" style and report bad behavior, and things will go wrong from there. At my very first job, three of us - all fresh out of school - were working together on a prototype hw/sw system and trash-talking each other as we traced control flow from one layer to another. Staying past dinnertime, we jointly figured out multiple hw & sw issues, made a lot of progress, and left feeling very pleased with ourselves and our cooperative effort. The next day, instead of attaboys, each of us was called in to our respective supervisor's office for a lecture, because a more decorous adult had passed by the lab, mistaken our light-hearted banter for serious anger, and reported that we had been close to a fist-fight.

    • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:36PM

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:36PM (#271616)

      That's robust give and take. It's not like you were such a disaster to work with that an ambitious person turned down a promotion because it would have meant spending more time with you. It's not like you lied on input to someone else's performance review. It's not like you went into a panic rage when someone sped up your code by a factor of 2. It's not like you didn't know the difference between a bit and a byte and shouted down the guy who tried to explain literally the first thing about how the product worked. It's not like you mind-fucked everyone to the point that the entire executive team needed professional counseling. It's not like you had your co-workers throwing up every morning at the thought of going to work. It's not like someone bought a copy of "Without Conscience: the Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" and kept shouting in recognition of patterns from your interactions.

      (That wasn't all the same person, by the way).

      An uninhibited and honest "That sucks!" or "What were you thinking?!" is not toxic. If you think it is, you've never had an actual toxic cow orker. Be grateful for that. Be very grateful, and it still won't be grateful enough.

      • (Score: 2) by Username on Friday December 04 2015, @03:19AM

        by Username (4557) on Friday December 04 2015, @03:19AM (#271676)

        Nah, it’s more like me telling someone "you’re fucking useless," getting reported, and having the manager just tell me not to do it again.

        There’s a whole group of us highly competitive assholes who get away with everything. We cut each other down and stab each other in the back. We also get all the important projects and work with each other all the time.

        I honestly find it all enjoyable. It’s almost like the movie Tin Men, where you do the meanest shit to each other but somehow are friends and coolheaded in the end.

    • (Score: 2) by stormwyrm on Friday December 04 2015, @01:59AM

      by stormwyrm (717) on Friday December 04 2015, @01:59AM (#271658) Journal

      That's not what the article means when it talks about toxic workers. If you talk shit to people who have it coming that doesn't make you toxic. That just makes you overly blunt, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Their actual definition seems to describe much more insidious people. FTFA:

      "I wanted to look at workers who are harmful to an organization either by damaging the property of the company—theft, stealing, fraud—or other people within the company through bullying, workplace violence, or sexual harassment," he said. "The other reason I chose the term 'toxic' is that, as I find in the empirical study, it also tends to spill over—that if you are exposed to these toxic workers, then you become more likely to ultimately be terminated … later on."

      I take it you're not the sort of person described.

      --
      Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:07PM

    by opinionated_science (4031) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:07PM (#271501)

    In my career I have become accustomed to 2 day interviews. A day to present a seminar and meet the org chart, and a day to meet the group in various forms.

    You can spot a toxic hire on paper, quite easily. Frequent moves, and they get hired with none of the above, by someone "at the top".

    We call this a parachute drop with no parachute approved.

    It is how sociopaths get along...

  • (Score: 2) by srobert on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:28PM

    by srobert (4803) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:28PM (#271514)

    If your response to this was to to ask yourself, "do my co-workers think I'm toxic?", then the answer is probably not. The guilty parties are incapable of introspection.

    • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:37PM

      by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:37PM (#271517) Journal

      That's nice sounding but not true.

      Sociopaths are capable of knowing that they're sociopaths. They're even capable of caring about it. The thing you'll see about business sociopaths is that they'll often think their worst acts were totally justified. "I couldn't let someone else screw me over first" or "I earned my place so [low grade embezzlement] isn't a big deal." Going "Oh no what if it's me" isn't some special protection.

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:53PM

        by frojack (1554) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:53PM (#271523) Journal

        Going "Oh no what if it's me" isn't some special protection.

        If you can't do that part, you will never find yourself detecting your own rationalizations.

        So the "What if its me?" part is critically essential.

        If you can't think back over your career and find any situations you could have handled better, then you are doing it wrong.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:32PM

          by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:32PM (#271543) Journal

          I don't disagree that it's a necessary step, but sociopaths are perfectly capable of introspection. The big thing they lack is empathy. "What's it like to be the other guy/girl? Oh god that's horrible!" is a thought process that's foreign to them.

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Hairyfeet on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:30PM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:30PM (#271515) Journal

    "Toxic Worker" give me a damned break, sounds like you are dealing with a Captain Planet villain! Not only has the word toxic become a codeword used by a certain faction (social justice) in the same was as "suppressive person" by Scientologists, we already have a perfect good and acceptable word to describe these kind of workers...the assholes. Replace the stupid PC phrase with asshole...doesn't it just read and sound more natural? Everybody has had to deal with an asshole coworker, asshole coworkers make the workday miserable,etc.

    I'm a firm believer in what the late George Carlin wrote was the constant struggle to keep political correctness from turning our vocabulary into "soft language" that removes the power and impact of language and dumbs down and sugar coats every phrase it touches, I quote..

    "You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth. I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't like words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Because Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent a kind of a soft language to protect themselves from it. And it gets worse with every generation. For some reason it just keeps getting worse."
                                                                                - George Carlin

    --
    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by frojack on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:56PM

      by frojack (1554) on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:56PM (#271524) Journal

      Agreed.

      Toxic is the most over used word of the left leaning PC-police these days.
      They fail to realize just how toxic they themselves are.
      Oh, wait....

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Tork on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:57PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:57PM (#271559)
      Heh. Maybe you idiots that shout "SJW!" all the time will finally burn yourselves out, after all. Oh and 'toxic coworker' has been a term for at least a couple of decades, and it's meaning is that their behaviour sickens all around them. As it turns out that's actually more descriptive than 'asshole'
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday December 05 2015, @04:07AM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday December 05 2015, @04:07AM (#272082) Journal

        Social Justice Warriors, deciding who counts based on progressive stack, Social Justice Warriors, if you don't think like us we are on the attack!

        We are narcissists and Captain Planeteers, with our heads firmly up our rears, we think the world is black and white, and if you are trans or have a vag then you'e always right!

        Sorry but if you don't believe in SJWs you might as well say you don't believe there are communists and fellow travelers, since the SJW movement is really just an offshoot of those two movements. If you would actually like to talk to them here ya go [youtube.com] simply go down to the comments on this video, its SJW heaven, complete with "citations" of tumblr blogs, calling everyone that doesn't slurp the koolaid an "ist", arguments that consist entirely of moving the goalpost, Ad Hominem, and tu quoque fallacies, calls to ban and censor those that do not agree with their positions, all classic SJW behavior.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday December 05 2015, @07:02AM

          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Saturday December 05 2015, @07:02AM (#272115)
          Heh. The more bad attributes you can stick on this mythical group of people, the less you'll have to be informed on whatever topic you butt heads with people on. It's sorta like Rush Limbaugh complaining about Liberals, but not as classy.
          --
          🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
          • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday December 05 2015, @10:33AM

            by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday December 05 2015, @10:33AM (#272135) Journal

            Well lets see, you invoked a strawman, used a tu quoque fallacy, and your only answer is to insult, not to debate...let me guess, millennial SJW? Or would you prefer racist?

            --
            ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:18PM

              by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:18PM (#272164)

              "SJWs are bad, your argument is bad, and I bet you're an SJW!!"

              He swings.... and he misses!

              Seriously, though, the whole "SJW" thing is so transparent that nobody takes it seriously. There's a group of people whose opinion differs from yours. There's nothing particularly wrong with their opinion, but in battling with them over it it has become clear that your goals aren't as noble as theirs. Since this isn't a defensible position the new tact is to put them into an ill-defined group and make up a bunch of stuff about how powerful they are and how insincere their motives are. Sorta like how during the 2012 election everybody on 'entitlement programs' was on drugs. Or how minimum wage workers are just teenagers that need to learn to get out there and make something of themselves. When you get enough people to agree with you, you can sit safely within that crowd and not feel like a monster.

              So when you're heading into a situation you know you're on shaky ground with, you can just start pulling out the SJW label and throwing it around, like this: "let me guess, millennial SJW?" This leaves you free from having to worry about learning more about a topic at hand.

              I'm starting to think the real definition of "SJW" is "group of people more knowledgeable about a topic than I am and I hate them."

              --
              🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
              • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday December 05 2015, @07:15PM

                by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday December 05 2015, @07:15PM (#272241) Journal

                If a spade is a spade, do you expect us to call it a tomato because you do not personally like the word spade? And I hate to break the news to you but they call themselves that now as the comment section I linked to clearly shows. They consider it like blacks calling each other nigga, they are "taking back the term" and are quite proud of being every stereotype that the phrase implies and will thank you for calling them that, as they believe gender fascism and racism are things to be proud of.

                So I'm sorry oh spoiled one, but you do not get to decide what words exist and what words do not but I tell ya what, would you like me to provide a "trigger warning" when somebody speaks it here?

                --
                ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
                • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday December 06 2015, @02:46AM

                  by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Sunday December 06 2015, @02:46AM (#272340)

                  ...as they believe gender fascism and racism are things to be proud of.

                  No. Honestly, you should know better. I know you were repeatedly educated on this topic in school. The worst part is you have absolutely no idea that you're part of the problem.

                  So I'm sorry oh spoiled one, but you do not get to decide what words exist and what words do not but I tell ya what, would you like me to provide a "trigger warning" when somebody speaks it here?

                  No, there isn't an endlessly growing list of words you cannot use. It's really only a matter of respect. Treat people with respect and you won't have to worry about what words you choose. Run around labeling people by a stereotype, don't act surprised that your own prejudices get aired out for all to see. This isn't the work of "SJWs" that are running around trying to make your life miserable, it's simply your own undoing. This is why nobody takes your posts seriously when you bring up "SJWs". There's no real content in those posts, just gripes about some fictional group that your recently humbled buddies raise a drink to.

                  --
                  🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                  • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday December 06 2015, @09:12PM

                    by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday December 06 2015, @09:12PM (#272578) Journal

                    Not gonna call a spade a tomato because you don't like the word spade. For fucks say did you not even READ the original post? It was a fucking quote by George Carlin AGAINST all this political correct fucking newspeak and you expect me to support that shit? Get da fuck out of here with your politically correct (which just FYI is a word that was coined by Marxists in the USSR, so it really doesn't surprise me that SJ narcissist fellow travelers love it) bullshit and I will continue to point out when bullshit IS bullshit, I will NOT call it a field of daisies.

                    --
                    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
                    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday December 06 2015, @09:30PM

                      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Sunday December 06 2015, @09:30PM (#272583)
                      I know you'd like to run around freely using the n-word, but it ain't going to happen until the disrespect behind it is gone, and that will take a verrrrrry long time. I didn't decide that for you. Decades and decades of guys that look like you did.
                      --
                      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                      • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday December 06 2015, @10:49PM

                        by Hairyfeet (75) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday December 06 2015, @10:49PM (#272611) Journal

                        Sorry but you don't get to redefine words, move the goalposts, or label any normal word in the english language as "dat be raciss!" because you don't like it, now kindly fuck off.

                        --
                        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
                        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday December 07 2015, @01:26AM

                          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 07 2015, @01:26AM (#272671)
                          When you disrespect people they will disrespect you right back. Things will be gained and lost. Until you learn how not to be an asshole you'll just have to take comfort whining about people who don't actually exist while not using words that you really have no reason to use anyway.
                          --
                          🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:04PM (#271561)

      Yeah, these PC people are totally out of control. Can't call someone an asshole at work, have to take off my baseball cap at the dinner table, have to wear a jacket and tie to a funeral. Sheesh! Oh, wait, that was my grandfather saying all that...

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:39PM

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Thursday December 03 2015, @09:39PM (#271570)

      I've seen them jeopardize the health of an organization just like swallowing poison can put organisms in the hospital.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @12:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @12:48AM (#271636)

      good and acceptable word to describe these kind of workers...the assholes.

      I prefer myopic douchebag. But to each their own I guess.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:46PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @07:46PM (#271520)

    A bad manager will have more influence. A bad hr department can go even further

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @08:07PM (#271536)

      Is there such a thing as a good HR department? I thought those were called the Personnel Department.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:00PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @11:00PM (#271601)
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @03:09AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 04 2015, @03:09AM (#271672)

    Beware, beware of the handshake
    That hides the snake
    I'm telling you beware
    Beware of the pat on the back
    It just might hold you back
    Jealousy (jealousy)
    Misery (misery)
    Envy I tell you, you can't see behind smiling faces
    Smiling faces sometimes they don't tell the truth
    Smiling faces, smiling faces
    Tell lies and I got proof
    Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes

    - Temptations