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posted by martyb on Saturday December 05 2015, @08:49AM   Printer-friendly
from the edit-run-debug dept.

George Church is one of the biologists who attended the International Summit on Human Gene Editing, held from December 1-3 in Washington D.C. He believes that human aging could be cured in the near future. From the Washington Post:

Church thinks that one of the ailments he can cure is aging. When I met him early this year, in his laboratory at Harvard Medical School, where he is professor of genetics, he expressed confidence that in just five or six years he will be able to reverse the aging process in human beings. "A scenario is, everyone takes gene therapy — not just curing rare diseases like cystic fibrosis, but diseases that everyone has, like aging," he said. He noted that mice die after 2.5 years but bowhead whales can live to be 180 or 200.

So on Tuesday, I asked him if he was still on track to reversing the aging process in the next five years or so. He said yes — and that it's already happening in mice in the laboratory. The best way to predict the future, he said, is to predict things that have already happened.

For most of us lay people, what's striking here is not the way that scientists fiddle with the code of life but the mere fact that they do it at all. Awed though we may be by the skills of the experimenters, we naturally question whether this is a good idea. That's the whole point of the gene-editing summit: To find a path forward that fosters innovation but avoids crossing into ethically dubious territory. Gene-editing could be a tool for eliminating heritable diseases. But it just as easily could be used for purely cosmetic enhancements, or for something smacking of eugenics. The gravest concern is that CRISPR enables germline edits that get passed on to future generations. You're permanently changing the human species when you do that. Who calls the shots here?

Contrast Church's position with that of another biotech heavyweight, Craig Venter. Venter is focused on a "higher-quality life span" and recently said that billionaires extending their own lifespans would be "socially irresponsible". FightAging has additional discussion of the Washington Post article.

[More after the break.]

Merlin Crossley, Dean of Science and Professor of Molecular Biology at UNSW Australia, says we can trust scientists with the power of gene editing:

Now that's it's so easy to meddle in human genes, why shouldn't we worry?

The new technology is a game-changer – but it's not a runaway phenomenon, like releasing cane toads, blackberries or rabbits into Australia. After 40 years, there have been few, if any problems, with genetically modified organisms. And the experiments - though much easier now - are still so elaborate and expensive that the technology will spread slowly.

We'll likely remain cautious about modifying human embryos and about any modification that may be passed on to the next generation. To date, consent is required for all treatments. And while patients may opt for experimental cancer therapy or surgery, we always try to think carefully when others, who cannot consent, will be affected.

Some people will even ask why it's wrong to correct a defect that could haunt future generations. Or, if we could introduce a gene variant that protects people from cancer – such as creating a duplication of the tumour suppressor gene p53 – why wouldn't we want that for our children?

Genetics is a branch of science that's ripe for discussions, and conversations on recombinant DNA, gene therapy, cloning and stem cells have all gone well. Guidelines have been sensible and researchers have largely complied with them.

The very fact that people from across the world are gathering to discuss the issues surrounding the latest breakthroughs in gene technology is a very strong sign that the science will be used responsibly. One hopes that the concurrent meeting on climate change in Paris is also a victory for science.


Original Submission

Related Stories

First Known Attempt at Genetically Modifying Human Embryos in the U.S. is an Apparent Success 28 comments

U.S. scientists have genetically modified human embyros using CRISPR and have apparently avoided the worst of the off-target effects that have plagued previous efforts. The results are unpublished and the team is not commenting yet:

The first known attempt at creating genetically modified human embryos in the United States has been carried out by a team of researchers in Portland, Oregon, Technology Review has learned.

The effort, led by Shoukhrat Mitalipov of Oregon Health and Science University, involved changing the DNA of a large number of one-cell embryos with the gene-editing technique CRISPR, according to people familiar with the scientific results.

Until now, American scientists have watched with a combination of awe, envy, and some alarm as scientists elsewhere were first to explore the controversial practice. To date, three previous reports of editing human embryos were all published by scientists in China.

Now Mitalipov is believed to have broken new ground both in the number of embryos experimented upon and by demonstrating that it is possible to safely and efficiently correct defective genes that cause inherited diseases.

Although none of the embryos were allowed to develop for more than a few days—and there was never any intention of implanting them into a womb—the experiments are a milestone on what may prove to be an inevitable journey toward the birth of the first genetically modified humans.

Also at STAT News.

Previously: Chinese Scientists Have Genetically Modified Human Embryos
NIH Won't Fund Human Germline Modification
Group of Scientists and Bioethicists Back Genetic Modification of Human Embryos
The International Summit on Human Gene Editing
UK Scientist Makes the Case for Editing Human Embryos
Second Chinese Team Reports Gene Editing in Human Embryos
Scientists Keep Human Embryos Alive Longer Outside of the Womb
Francis Collins Retains Position as Director of the National Institutes of Health


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  • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday December 05 2015, @09:33AM

    by wonkey_monkey (279) on Saturday December 05 2015, @09:33AM (#272132) Homepage

    "The dangers have been grossly over-exagerrated by the media," said Doctor Croctopus.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk
  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday December 05 2015, @10:52AM

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday December 05 2015, @10:52AM (#272139) Journal

    $1000 genome is here [veritasgenetics.com]. $100 next.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday December 05 2015, @12:51PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday December 05 2015, @12:51PM (#272145) Journal

    Reversing aging, as desirable as it is for us as individuals, would be disastrous for us as a species, and likely every other species as well. At the very least we'd have to undertake many radical changes to avert disaster, most of them cutting across deeply embedded cultural and instinctive factors. For instance we'd have to implement an instant moratorium on having children; the urge to procreate is about the most fundamental instinct there is, so good luck with that one. And if we're unhappy with global wealth distribution now, imagine what that would be like with suddenly many more mouths to feed. Every human need and impact on the world would jump up an order of magnitude. I doubt any society on Earth would survive those kinds of shearing forces.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:16PM (#272150)

      It would depend on how substantial the extension would be. The average lifespan has increased dramatically in recent times (on a genetic timescale) and I don't think that is responsible for too many of the world's problems.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:18PM (#272151)

      For instance we'd have to implement an instant moratorium on having children; the urge to procreate is about the most fundamental instinct there is, so good luck with that one.

      The birth rate in many wealthy countries is already below replacement rate. Just have enough distractions for the people (job, education, cat videos on the internet, etc.) and they won't do much procreating; or at least they'll push it off until their late 30's, after which the child is much more likely to have some kind of health issue.

    • (Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:31PM

      by Francis (5544) on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:31PM (#272156)

      I take it you've never seen Logan's Run or Soylent Green.

      Lengthening the life doesn't make much sense if the life was barely worth living to begin with. Focusing on quality of life makes far more sense than increasing the length of life. Just look around places where the elderly live, most of them are deteriorating to the point where adding an extra 20 years makes little sense.

      The real issue with the technology is that it's an inherently slippery slope. There's no straightforward way of determining what should and shouldn't be allowed. Even things as seemingly straightforward as deafness or down's syndrome have people that would fight against any efforts at curing the conditions. And then you've got mental illnesses where a dash of it can be a huge boon for humanity, but too much leads to all sorts of personal and societal problems.

      This is just the latest version of eugenics and it's still just as morally and practically problematic as it was previously. The main difference is that there's no need to wait until the children are born to annihilate them Nazi style, that can be done even before there's an embryo to abort.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:58PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:58PM (#272162) Journal

        Logan's Run and Soylent Green, neither of which are exactly what we're talking about, nevertheless both represent a radical departure from societies of today, wouldn't you agree? It's not hard to imagine difficulties in going from what we have now to something like those in one generation, is it?

        Anyway, I agree it's a slippery slope and it's probably one we're already on. Technology has become too widely available for governments to stop this kind of thing. If you could fire up CRISPR or its successors and give yourself some key advantage, like an eidetic memory, wouldn't you? I would. Hell, throw in immortality, super strength, a slim waistline, perfect hearing, vision, smell, Gauss-like knack for math, Da Vinci-like artistic talent, and who wouldn't? How could it possibly be bad to have billions of people like that running around instead of a handful?

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:44PM

          by Francis (5544) on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:44PM (#272184)

          Of course I agree, I think purposefully killing large numbers of people because they've hit an arbitrary limit is a bad idea. Same goes for turning people into food because we need that to supplement the food we have as we've run the population up high enough to hit the carrying capacity.

          Both are a tad bit unrealistic, but they're concerns.

          As far as enhancing humans, it depends a bit on what traits you're selecting for and how they fit in with other traits. Giving somebody super smarts, but neglecting to account for empathy could easily give you a super villain. Most of the things you cite are unlikely to cause problems, perfect hearing, vision and smell are unlikely to destroy the world or harm other people in any obvious way. However, super strength and immortality are likely to cause tons of problems.

          There's also the difference between genetics and epigenetic. If the modifications are ones that are done after birth with the cooperation of the person being enhanced, that's a very different scenario from doing it in vitro.

          • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:23PM

            by mhajicek (51) on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:23PM (#272221)

            I think genetics and epigenetics will be mostly interim technologies like relays and vacuum tubes. I think most high-level players will abandon the flesh in the long run, with the possible exceptions of using flesh avatars for entertainment purposes.

            --
            The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:40PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:40PM (#272169) Journal

        Lengthening the life doesn't make much sense if the life was barely worth living to begin with. Focusing on quality of life makes far more sense than increasing the length of life. Just look around places where the elderly live, most of them are deteriorating to the point where adding an extra 20 years makes little sense.

        Anti-aging = eternal youth, by design. Aging is treated as damage [sens.org], and the damage is fixed. We have basically reached the limit of lifespan increases that result from keeping the elderly healthy yet full of damage. 120 is about the limit of the "natural" human lifespan.

        Even things as seemingly straightforward as deafness or down's syndrome have people that would fight against any efforts at curing the conditions. And then you've got mental illnesses where a dash of it can be a huge boon for humanity, but too much leads to all sorts of personal and societal problems.

        They would fight, but feebly. If parents are given the option to pick and choose embryos, along with editing of embryos, you will see a reduction in Down's syndrome, for example. They may feel guilty about it, but many of them will choose not to face years of stress and sadness dealing with an obviously genetically inferior child. What can the communities you mention do about it? They could try to torpedo the research or make it more difficult to engage in gene editing. But that will drive parents overseas to jurisdictions that don't care, like China.

        As for the movement to stay deaf or blind (like Daredevil! [wikipedia.org]), if the disability happens after birth, or can be cured using gene therapy despite a child being born with the condition, then the individual can make an informed choice.

        Success against blindness encourages gene therapy researchers [nature.com]

        And then you've got mental illnesses where a dash of it can be a huge boon for humanity, but too much leads to all sorts of personal and societal problems.

        Genetics targeting the brain could come years or decades later than more straightforward alterations. In any case, you can develop mental illness after you are born without a genetic cause.

        This is just the latest version of eugenics and it's still just as morally and practically problematic as it was previously.

        It's not problematic if it isn't infringing on the liberties of others (forced sterilization, concentration camps). And yes, I'm assigning low or zero liberty to the embryo/fetus.

        Once your massively genetically altered embryo is born, then you can see to it that the child has an upbringing and rights.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:50PM

          by Francis (5544) on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:50PM (#272188)

          [quote]
          It's not problematic if it isn't infringing on the liberties of others (forced sterilization, concentration camps). And yes, I'm assigning low or zero liberty to the embryo/fetus.

          Once your massively genetically altered embryo is born, then you can see to it that the child has an upbringing and rights.
          [/quote]

          I was with you up to here. We've already seen with college degrees that choices that effect employability and ability to reproduce tend to force people to make decisions that they wouldn't normally make in order to keep up. I'd be very surprised if parents didn't apply the same kind of logic when making these decisions that they make when pressuring their children to get a degree.

          Editing the gametes that become children isn't substantively any different from selective abortions. Humans have a very poor grasp of the consequences of the decisions we make in every day life, and you think it's a good idea for us to monkey around with evolutionary forces? Yes, we have largely managed to remove natural selection from our daily existence, but societies do fail and when that happens, removing the genetic diversity or focusing it on things that are useful in civilized society probably isn't going to seem as smart.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:23PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday December 05 2015, @02:23PM (#272165) Journal

      Birth rates are declining across the planet, and effective anti-aging would keep people youthful, not just immortal. That means they can stay in the workforce (or on the farm) if needed. Although they will contend with or use robots. Crop yield per acre will continue to increase, as will solar power per dollar. New desalinization methods and more aggressive conservation can help with water consumption.

      Cheap and pre-emptive anti-aging using medicine or nanobots would massively reduce health care expenditures, allowing for trillions of dollars of capital to be allocated elsewhere, like space travel.

      Dealing with the excess population:

      • Wars. The "shearing forces" you mention. Not ideal, but could happen regardless. One advantage to this "plan": as long as nuclear proliferation is slow or stagnant, there will likely be conventional wars resulting in many deaths, but not immediate global peril.
      • Risky behaviors. Increasing adventurism, travel, crime, gladiatorial combat, whatever.
        • An obvious measure is to decriminalize and/or legalize all drugs, including the dangerous ones. There are many side benefits to doing so beyond increasing the death rate. It solves another overpopulation problem too: overcrowded prisons.
      • Capital punishment for murders and some other crimes. This is a tough one since it violates most interpretations of human rights, and the trend seems to be against capital punishment.
      • Voluntary suicide. It is likely that double digit %s of the global population will simply refuse or stop using anti-aging treatment for religious or personal reasons. Others may kill themselves. Neither group can be stopped. The "right to die" should be in place before anti-aging becomes effective.
      • Legal abortion. Wherever it is illegal, it should be legalized.
      • Voluntary sterilization. It would be trivial to create new and bigger incentives for male and female sterilization. Semi-permanent IUDs, including male versions that implant a gel and do not require a vasectomy, would also be encouraged and fully subsidized. The ultimate goal is zero unplanned births.
      • Space travel. Colonizing the solar system could help alleviate population growth if conditions are met. It needs to be much cheaper to get humans into space. Several technologies will be lowering the $/kg required to reach space and orbit over the coming decades. Other technologies will help get people to Mars or other bodies faster and cheaper than before. The colonies will likely have lower birth rates than encountered on Earth, if only due to complicating factors like radiation and immediate resource constraints. Colonization should be advocated whether or not it is needed for population concerns (see meteor impacts [dailygalaxy.com]).
      • Sex robots. Having the technology around will have at least a small impact on birth rates.
      • Mind uploading. Substrate independent minds (brains uploaded to neuromorphic computers) could use less resources including no food and much less physical space. The ultimate fate of civilizations (ours, and aliens) may be for their members to become more and more efficient until they decide to shed their biology. There is even a possible moral dimension. The more efficient you are, the more resources are available to other members of your civilization or to civilizations on other planets.
        • We could go a step further and create combinations of minds. 2 or more minds inhabiting one body.
      • Greater resource efficiency. Here's a figure from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]: "the poor consume only a miniscule proportion of the resources with the highest income group accounting for 86% of global consumption while the poorest consume only 1.3%". We know that the developing world is purchasing more cars and luxuries. Switching to electric cars, getting more solar/wind/geothermal as well as nuclear fusion on the grids, and creating new coatings to keep food fresh longer, among many other measures, could help reduce the environmental impact of the growing populations.

      Most of the above list are active measures that could be used to slow or reduce population. But ultimately, the Earth may self-regulate the population. There will still be natural disease outbreaks, natural disasters (which could kill more people given greater population densities) and probably hunger. Given trends in biotechnology, there may be genetically engineered "bioterror" plagues. For the same reasons you can't stop/prevent/ban anti-aging research, others will produce the means to violently reduce global population.

      • (Score: 1) by redneckmother on Saturday December 05 2015, @04:12PM

        by redneckmother (3597) on Saturday December 05 2015, @04:12PM (#272193)

        We could go a step further and create combinations of minds. 2 or more minds inhabiting one body.

        Ahhh, schizophrenia for the rich and infamous?

        --
        Mas cerveza por favor.
    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 05 2015, @05:45PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday December 05 2015, @05:45PM (#272211) Journal

      Reversing aging, as desirable as it is for us as individuals, would be disastrous for us as a species

      Why is that a problem? I'm not particularly attached to the species.

      At the very least we'd have to undertake many radical changes to avert disaster, most of them cutting across deeply embedded cultural and instinctive factors.

      Like mandating that unaging citizens must agree to sterilization? I don't see serious disagreement with that.

      For instance we'd have to implement an instant moratorium on having children; the urge to procreate is about the most fundamental instinct there is, so good luck with that one.

      So is survival.

      And if we're unhappy with global wealth distribution now, imagine what that would be like with suddenly many more mouths to feed.

      You can always stop punishing employment any time you feel like it.

      Every human need and impact on the world would jump up an order of magnitude.

      With "jump" being over a rather long period of time, especially once you've gotten rid of aging-related illnesses and made the entire population healthy and productive.

      Have you even thought about this a little?

    • (Score: 2) by gnuman on Saturday December 05 2015, @05:49PM

      by gnuman (5013) on Saturday December 05 2015, @05:49PM (#272212)

      Every human need and impact on the world would jump up an order of magnitude. I doubt any society on Earth would survive those kinds of shearing forces.

      How so? If you procreate, then you have to die would be one solution.

      But even if you don't age, you are still very likely to die. Leading causes of death is not "aging", but heart disease, stroke and cancer. Something like 90% of people would get cancer by age 100. If people think they will be able to live 10,000 years in their bodies, then I have a few acres on the Moon to sell them.

      Now, if you can copy humans into computers, then that changes things. But this has little to do with shearing forces on Earth.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:08PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:08PM (#272217) Journal

        Those diseases are likely to be swept away around the same time aging is cured. For example, heart disease [sens.org]:

        The most well-known form of extracellular junk is beta-amyloid: the stifling, web-like material that forms plaques in the brains of patients with Alzheimer's disease, and also (more slowly) in everyone else's, and impairs cognitive function. There are also a variety of similar aggregates that form in other tissues during aging and contribute to age-related diseases, including islet amyloid in Type II diabetes and senile cardiac amyloidosis, which is a major contributor to heart failure. In fact, there is some evidence that senile cardiac amyloidosis may be the main cause of death in people who survive beyond age 110.

        The ideal aging cure would be nanobots, which would be able to take care of heart disease and cancer no problem. Long before we have nanobots, we will have nanoparticles capable of delivering targeted chemotherapy drugs to cancer cells.

        --
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        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @11:23PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @11:23PM (#272301)

          I bet penis enlargement will be the first one offered; paid in bitcoins.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 06 2015, @04:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 06 2015, @04:48PM (#272507)

      You point problems that would occur if everybody benefited from affordable longer life.

      I don't think this situation will happen soon. I worry more about the intermediate stage, when only the elite can afford the expensive treatment.

      Now that would be a problem for the species, or rather the civilization: evolution of politics, science, customs etc... very often has to wait for the "old guard" to die -- literally -- so that new ideas, coming from the new generation, can freely express themselves (see this recent SMBC illustation http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3947 [smbc-comics.com] ).

      What would happen for example if all those senators, who are already prehistoric and rely on their secretary to print their email on paper, get extended 20, 50 or 100 more years ??

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 06 2015, @01:45AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 06 2015, @01:45AM (#272319)

    How about they actually use the necessary controls and follow other commonly accepted scientific practices before having summits regarding the consequences of their claims? A claim of human gene editing using 3PN zygotes, seriously? Half of those are genetically unstable to begin with.