With the imminent release of the new Star Wars film, The Force Awakens, many theatergoers are re-watching the original movies to reacquaint themselves with those stories from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. This time, however, they may find themselves surprised by how much the film's characters and themes echo the current War On Terror. According to Jonathon Last, in the Star Wars films (not the Expanded Universe) the Empire is good and is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction. Now an interesting article on the Star Wars films at Decider takes the re-interpretation a step further, arguing that the films are actually the story of the radicalization of Luke Skywalker. From introducing Luke to us in A New Hope (as a simple farm boy gazing into the Tatooine sunset), to his eventual transformation into the radicalized insurgent of Return of the Jedi (as one who sets his own father's corpse on fire and celebrates the successful bombing of the Death Star), each film in the original trilogy is another step in Luke's descent into terrorism.
According to the article Luke Skywalker is just the kind of isolated disaffected young man that terror recruiters seek out. Obi Wan — a religious fanatic with a history of looking for young boys to recruit and teach an extreme interpretation of the Force — tells Luke he must abandon his family and join him, going so far as telling a shocking lie that the Empire killed Luke's father, hoping to inspire Luke to a life of jihad. In The Empire Strikes Back, Luke is ordered to travel overseas to receive training and religious instruction from Yoda, an extremist cleric who runs a Jedi madrasa on Dagobah. Yoda's push to radicalize Luke, rob him of an identity, and instill obedience are apparent when at various points he instructs Luke to "Clear your mind of questions," "Unlearn what you have learned" and, most grimly, "Do, or do not, there is no try." Armed with new combat training and cloaked in a hardline religious fervor, Luke leaves Dagobah, impatient to put his terror training to use.Finally in Return of the Jedi, we see a darker, hardened Luke, fittingly dressed in black and eager to use violence as a tool to enforce the twisted "judge, jury, executioner" value system of the Jedi. "With Darth Vader the final casualty of Luke's jihad, Obi-Wan and Yoda have succeeded in catching yet another young man in their web of Jedi extremism," concludes the article. "Star Wars is clearly a cautionary tale of the dangers of radicalization, and how even a seemingly harmless young man who kept to himself on Tattooine can become the terrorist next door."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @03:50PM
Where are the bits where Luke and the gang blow up civilian bystanders by the truck loads?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bucket58 on Monday December 14 2015, @03:58PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by rliegh on Monday December 14 2015, @03:58PM
one and two
I just tell 'em the truth and they think it's trolling!
(Score: 2) by theluggage on Monday December 14 2015, @04:07PM
Where are the bits where Luke and the gang blow up civilian bystanders by the truck loads?
George Lucas cut them out in the special edition, along with the bit where Han shoots first (the bastard!)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Rivenaleem on Monday December 14 2015, @04:19PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_IGDcPprjg [youtube.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday December 14 2015, @04:08PM
Why do you think there is nothing but military personnel on the death stars?
Especially the second death star, which is undergoing construction. To build something the size of a large moon(the second death star was much bigger than the first) would have involved millions of construction workers working around the clock.
Besides, if you're like most Americans, you'd view the USS Cole bombing, the pentagon attack on 9/11, and the Fort Hood shooting all as terrorism in spite of being military targets.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Monday December 14 2015, @04:42PM
Seabees? The story is pretty vague on economic systems, aside from there seems to be a lot of smuggling. A lot of law breaking would imply theres a lot of laws to break. My guess is limited nationalization. If everyone works for the state there's very little difference between a civilian and military personnel.. maybe some minor details WRT retirement plans (LOL) but that's probably about it.
Things get very fuzzy with secret military projects. If a Manhattan Project site were attacked in WW2 by commandos or spies, are those .gov employees civilians or military? Does it Really matter?
I could see DS2 being full of construction workers, but DS1 was done and built. Its like assuming an iowa class battleship had to have been full of civilians during its wartime deployments. Thats confusing the first death star with the Enterprise from ST:TNG. Time to derail with "who wins in a battle, the Enterprise or an Imperial Star Destroyer" where winner is defined just for today as fewer civilian casualties... well I think the SD wins.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday December 14 2015, @05:23PM
Han Solo was explicitly a Spice(illegal drug) smuggler.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday December 14 2015, @08:43PM
Spice is from an entirely different SciFi epic.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday December 14 2015, @08:45PM
No, no it isn't.
It's even a substance you mine for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @08:10PM
Ugh. You know what sucks about the new moderation system? You can't un-moderate by posting a reply any more. Your post was inane, not insightful and I only up-modded it because any moderate button applies all moderations on a page, not just the one next to the moderate button.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 15 2015, @01:32PM
Un-moderating by posting a reply was a hack anyway. If anything, there should be a separate "undo moderation" function (anyway, just selecting "moderate" on another post will not moderate that post "Insightful"; you must have selected "Insightful" on that post beforehand-
But having the moderation button apply only to the post where it is would be reasonable improvement; unfortunately I remember some SN staff member having posted that this would be hard to implement with the existing code base.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @09:28PM
If everyone works for the state there's very little difference between a civilian and military personnel.
Thanks a lot, dude. My wife's a teacher (state, public-funded school) and I used to work in the Public Sector myself, generating CO2-free electricity FTW.
Bloody American propaganda...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday December 15 2015, @12:15AM
Yes, it's time.
The saucer section separates, and those SD are big, huge, and slow. Not to mention the SD is staffed purely by military officers, and the Enterprise is staffed with engineers and scientists... some of which double as executive officers (Picard is often senior lecturer in the field of archeology). The Enterprise also has a massive supercomputer for firing control, which is largely overkill if you just wanted better firing control than what the Imperials have... aka "Spray and Pray".
I'm nearly positive that LaForge would reverse engineer the SD faster than an entire planet of Bothan spies, and inform Picard about a "beam of energy" that can be produced from the primary deflector dish to cause a sympathetic resonance in the SD's big ass engines, almost wholly unprotected at the back. Worf smiles and prepares firing control while Picard debates the philosophical value of mercy and first contact situations.....
Forget phasers, or high tech beams, The Enterprise could take out the Death Star with a modified torpedo from well outside of the star system. Their torpedoes are small (about the size of wamp rat), self guiding, and warp capable all on their own. A TriCobalt torpedo would only require impact with the Death Star, not actually hitting any specific vent. I'm sure LaForge could "pump up the volume" significantly if required. Can the Imperials modify their own weapons with R&D mid battle? Don't think so. That requires a bunch of military industrial complex negotiations on Coruscant before the new weapon can be approved, and of course, the Emperor needs to sign off on everything (control freak).
If it were really war? It wouldn't be the Enterprise, but Defiant and other battle class ships. The Enterprise is a ship of peace and exploration after all....
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by jimshatt on Tuesday December 15 2015, @11:33AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:51PM
You've got to see the Phineas and Ferb Star Wars version [wikia.com]. Just after the Death Star blows up:
(Score: 0, Troll) by Soybean on Monday December 14 2015, @05:49PM
Besides, if you're like most Americans, you'd view the USS Cole bombing, the pentagon attack on 9/11, and the Fort Hood shooting all as terrorism in spite of being military targets.
Also the murder of Lee Rigby near his barracks, [theguardian.com] the killings of marines at military recruiting office and a navy reserve center in Chattanooga, [cbsnews.com] the killing of a soldier at the recruiting center in Little Rock, [nytimes.com] the attacks on the pentagon and other military facilities in north virginia. [washingtonpost.com] And then there are all the attacks on similar targets that were supposedly thwarted in the planning stages. [militarytimes.com]
The list of attacks on military targets that have been widely called terrorism is not short.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:18PM
The Death Star must have had some non-military personnel, but they're merely "collateral damage"
http://www.theonion.com/article/death-star-to-open-day-care-center-19913 [theonion.com]
(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Tuesday December 15 2015, @02:58AM
You think the average Storm Trooper knows how to install a toilet main?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGOVbXF7Iog [youtube.com]
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 3, Funny) by pendorbound on Monday December 14 2015, @05:05PM
Poor Wilhelm didn't stand a chance...
(Score: 2) by snufu on Monday December 14 2015, @08:30PM
Must have left the theater early.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCrxKbJ1ayc [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @03:51PM
Just another cover story to distract from the Skywalker Family's conspiracy to control the Galaxy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dvv-Yib1Xg [youtube.com]
And is Anakin really dead? Who confirmed it? How many really know what he looks like under that mask that conveniently hides his face?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dyingtolive on Monday December 14 2015, @03:57PM
That gives Lucas more credit to string together a coherent plot than I'm frankly comfortable with.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday December 15 2015, @04:57AM
Bah! The Skywalker family was nothing but a diversion to hide the true power behind the throne, the REAL Phantom Menace...Darth jar Jar! [reddit.com]
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:07PM
Yeah if you ignore the actual dialog in the movie.
"Fear will keep the local systems in line" AND dissolving the senate to cement his power AND blowing up a planet just to make a point of how powerful the are.
tells Luke he must abandon his family and join him
Which Luke immediately ignores. He goes along because the empire made it clear 'he is their enemy' by melting his aunt and uncle he had nothing to lose doing it.
who sets his own father's corpse on fire and celebrates
Yeah its called a funeral pyre. Lots of people do it. We call it cremation these days.
Yeah Luke is the bad guy... /sarc
The jar jar binks theory holds more water...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:52PM
Darth Jar Jar is foreal.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by moondrake on Monday December 14 2015, @04:55PM
I think you miss the point. The empire is a bit more evil compared to states like the US, and Luke a bit nicer than your average suicide bomber. He would still classify as a terrorist however.
I think the story is good for pointing out that simple people, fighting for their cause, and for what they believe in, are labeled terrorist by the powers that be. This is a fantasy story, and right&wrong are being exaggerated to make it simple for the audience to chose who are the bad guys. Real live however, is often not so simple.
I think we must however acknowledge that 1) Nations also do evil things and 2) It is possible that persons exists that are fighting against a state in an "as good as possible" way, which of course still would get him/her labeled as terrorist.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:00PM
> I think the story is good for pointing out that simple people, fighting for their cause,
> and for what they believe in, are labeled terrorist by the powers that be.
The classic quote is that "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." But that was first used in reference to the troubles in northern ireland so it was a lot more palatable to americans back then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @09:31PM
We have a winner.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday December 14 2015, @09:47PM
Wasn't the US army playing an involuntary pun on it with "Americas Army", where when two teams play against each other, each team will see itself in righteous American uniform, while each party sees the enemy depicted as evil terrorists? Can't find a link to back this up at the moment.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 16 2015, @03:11PM
In that case, it was probably not a political statement or a joke so much as a way to avoid people identifying with the wrong side in what is supposed to be a recruitment tool.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:59PM
To play Devil's Advocate, the Western interference in the Middle East could be compared to the Empire. I'm sure many kids over there have been radicalized after having people they knew killed in various ways. Personally I also find the comparison pretty silly since you can almost always find a way to frame the under dog as a "terrorist" as we use the term now. The biggest defining characteristics of terrorists that I see are: intentionally blowing up innocents without any other tactical advantage (mildly arguable since so much collateral damage seems to happen in military actions anyway...), and suicide bombings. The suicide bomber is a pretty nasty indicator, not only do they show a lack of caring for innocents but even their own comrades! I'm sure very few of the leaders REALLY feel like they are doing their men a favor by "sending them to heaven" etc. etc.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @09:55PM
To play Devil's Advocate, the Western interference in the Middle East could be compared to the Empire. I'm sure many kids over there have been radicalized after having people they knew killed in various ways.
The thousands US has literally killed in Pakistan with drones kind of sums this up very nicely.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/29/john-oliver-drones-last-week-tonight_n_5899716.html [huffingtonpost.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4NRJoCNHIs [youtube.com]
But there are plenty of other ways that US and others kind of make themselves into "The Empire", the primary being that human rights go out the window when money is involved. Just look at Saudi Arabia and how well women are treated - they are supposedly human too? Saudis have been the source of most of the radical islamic terrorism, but no consequences. They literally fund terrorists. 9/11? Mostly from Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden? Yeap, he was mostly pissed at US when his attempt to provide "defense force" for Saudi Arabia was trumped by US (back in the 1970s, for those that don't know). Heck, the entire Iran problem with Islamic Revolution was caused by the west (British AND US) propping up dictatorship of Sha (king of Iran) for their oil companies.
Now, radicals like Bin Laden or ISILs are/were certainly not Sky Walker, but they came about because of western policies (and most definitely Israel is guilty here, irrespective of the Palestinian issue) of,
1. propping up dictators
2. thinking that "arabs only understand strength"
3. lack of nation building
Hell, even in Iraq where US stayed for almost a decade, the first thing that was done was complete dismantling of their government. It wasn't "kick out Hussein", it was kick out entire government and no wonder shit hit the fan (so Iraq is certainly not "nation building" example).
The more you suppress dissent, the more fucked up the opposition will emerge. Middle East desperately needs dissent to be "uncorked" or it will go up 10x worse than the Arab Spring - and that brought us Libyan and Syrian civil wars already.
So yes, Sky Walker is a glorified terrorist. In reality he'd be closer to ISIL than Rebels. ISIL is more evil not because they are without conscience, but because people can rationalize anything if they think they are "Right". Heck, look at the drone links above and how US can rationalize those extrajudicial killings - can't be much different from how ISIL rationalizes their insanity.
(Score: 5, Funny) by romlok on Monday December 14 2015, @05:23PM
But how did Luke find out it was Imperial stormtroopers that killed his aunt and uncle? Was it not, in fact, Obi-Wan who simply told Luke that this was so?
"Those blast points; too accurate for sand people. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise"
And yet every time we later see actual Stormtroopers in combat, they can barely hit a star destroyer while standing inside it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:29PM
"that would lead them back home..." and well they were quite melted were they not?
And they swung by the local hell hole and lo and behold what were the storm troopers canvasing the area for? The two droids... Out of the storm troopers own mouths.
Even at the beginning he was planing on joining what became the rebels ('i to submit my application to the academy this year'). The 'rebels' were what Senator Palatine turned the remnants of the gov into. The rebels had on their hands some heavy duty military equipment. Not exactly a couple of piper cubs. It was basically a civil war.
If you pick things out of context you can tell a whole different story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSnx4V_RewE [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @10:08PM
Replace missing droids with IEDs. The US military has done the same. Canvas an area door to door looking for weapons. When someone is suspected of owning them but gives resistance they kick down the door and throw a couple grenades inside during the raid. SOP
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @08:33PM
Accuracy is not the same as precision. The Stormtroopers were extremely precise, just not at all accurate when things heated up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @08:42PM
I think Luke caught that episode of "Troops"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocmVZXXY8w [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by archshade on Monday December 14 2015, @09:41PM
And yet every time we later see actual Stormtroopers in combat, they can barely hit a star destroyer while standing inside it.
At some point I heard a theory, and Im not sure where. That essentially the Storm Troopers aboard the Death star where trying to lead the heroes round the death star in such a way they that the empires technicians had time to fit the tracker that lead them to the rebel base before pushing them back onto the Falcon and letting them escape. They had to give enough of the fight to make it believable but avoid killing so many as to make the return to the rebel base unlikely. Leia even alluded to it after the escape.
At the time there where two high value rebel targets. Obi Wan who was dispatched of, and Leia who would be too dangerous to kill. If Leia died the empire would have lost political support or at least passive acceptance by some of the more powerful people (I'm extrapolating but I hardly think the senate would have been happy about being dissolved killing the daughter of a dignity is usually a foolish move). Han and Chewie were known rouges without Leia they would not have gone to the rebel base, in fact even if it was just Han Leia and Chewie maybe they would not have gone back. May as well let that other rebel tag along it's not like he has any significance.
The empire only sent out a few Ties after the Falcon, If they did not want it to escape they could have fired volley after volley of the the Death Stars guns or sent hundreds of fighters after them. No I do not think the Storm troopers were bad shots, they performed well at there task as sheep dogs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @10:05PM
Watch it again like it's a propaganda film series. Envision the Jedi temple symbol on a digital flag waving in the corner. Its both hilarious and fits perfectly.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:11PM
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pe1rxq on Monday December 14 2015, @06:45PM
Yet the country they founded build the A-bomb.
Replace Leah with the Japanese emperor and Alderaan with Hiroshima......
(Even the empire had the decency to stop after one planet, the US bombed Nagasaki as well)
You can cherry pick your favorite part of history to prove just about any point. Or look at it as a whole and realize nobody is perfect and nothing is as black and white as a childrens' tale.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Monday December 14 2015, @07:16PM
You can cherry pick your favorite part of history to prove just about any point.
The problem is that U.S. history is cherry picked to whitewash it and justify wrong. Sure they have been great people and great high points and great principles. But the truth is that rarely did the U.S. government live up to those principles fully and in fact often the people who expressed the principles were hypocritical about it.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Insightful) by HiThere on Monday December 14 2015, @07:46PM
Every country whitewashes its history to school children. And in every country many adults never notice. The US isn't any worse than average on that scale. Where the countries differe is in what they consider reprehensible, and even within one country that shifts over time.
Face it, there's so much to learn when you are a kid that you can only handle a simplified form. The math is simplified, the science is either simplified or just omitted. The engineering is simplified (or recently just omitted). (I'm counting auto shop, woodworking, etc. as simplified engineering.) The grammar is simplified. And the history is simplified. The difference is that the history is simplified in a way to make the adults (and the country) look good...or look in a way that the purveyors of the history believe will make them look good. Like any other ad campaign they make lots of mistakes.
That said, currently the US appears, from the inside of it, to be the most abusive international power. From this biased perspective it also appears that prior supreme international powers were more abusive, relatively, in their time than the US is in this time. Of course, my perspective on historical powers is foreshortened, and it's also true that the US appears to be getting worse...so future observers are likely to have a worse opinion of the US's international behavior than I (currently) do.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Monday December 14 2015, @07:40PM
Where does the attack on Pearl Harbor fit into that?
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Monday December 14 2015, @09:21PM
Is that your attempt to turn it back into a comforting black/white story again?
If so you seem to be missing my point: International conflicts are not black and white.
(besides, I am sure a piece of Star Wars folklore can be found telling the story of a bunch of brave rebels attacking some empirial destroyers in a spaceport)
(Score: 2) by tibman on Monday December 14 2015, @11:50PM
Nope. Just wanted to know how that would have fitted into your narrative. No need to lecture me on conflict as we were intimate for a time.
Your hand-waving about rebels attacking a star destroyer standing in for pearl harbor is weak, man. That doesn't fit into the timeline (nor your point). The empire in that situation would have to have not been directly involved in the galaxy-wide conflict at the time while the rebels(Japanese) were actively killing, raping, and pillaging other weaker star systems. My question only strengthens your original point that you can cherry-pick history in many ways. If i was to do something with it i would have reached for a prequel. The rebels sort of existed before the empire existed. They were the trade federation (good-ish guys) who were being manipulated by a senator of the republic. The trade federation was tricked into thinking that attacking the people trying to break their trade agreements was the best option. They started a galactic war and caused the republic to get so pissed that the republic thought that changing into an empire was a good idea.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @09:55PM
> As far as I can tell ... They didn't engage in acts of terror on Imperial civilians, only on the military.
All that means is you are ignorant of history. Loyalists were attacked all the time - taring and feathering was a particular favorite, as was destruction of their property like burning down their houses. There is no doubt that the "Sons of Liberty" would be classified as a terrorist group if they were around today.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @10:14PM
Luke terrorized then murdered Jabba and his entourage.
They were all traitors to the galactic empire, wanted fugitives, and in custody in accordance with the laws of the empire. Darth Vader, the #2 political figure in the empire allowed Jabba to retain Solo personally. Then here comes Luke, his plots, and his threats to release the prisoners OR ELSE!
Think of it as someone showing up to Guantanamo and threatening to blow the entire prison complex if the facility commanding officer did not release select prisoners. When the CO did not comply, a few prisoners escape and the rest are murdered along with all staff and the facility itself.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Gravis on Monday December 14 2015, @04:19PM
Star Wars is clearly a cautionary tale of the dangers of radicalization
no, it's science fiction. any jackass can twist a story to support their own narrative, people have done it for millennia with religion. what he's really discovered here is the origins of how to propagandize. now he just has to inject his ideas into unrelated things and you will have a propaganda campaign.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @10:19PM
You just don't know how to have fun. It's tongue-in-cheek amusement. Relax, have a brew, and open your mind to being entertained.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 15 2015, @12:51PM
The true story that tells of the dangers of religious extremism is, of course, Dune. Which Lucas originally ripps off. Why is Tatooine a desert planet? Dune. George's original premise even had "spice".
Add the narrative taken from the Samurai film Hidden Fortress (original treatment for film funding was a direct ripoff), the Metropolis aesthetic for C3P0, the space-cowboy action of Buck Rogers, etc. Lucas kept mixing and matching existing works to produce Star Wars, but never really "created". It was "his writers" that changed Vader into Luke's father -- that wasn't planned out from the beginning, nor was the princess his "sister" (hence they kiss, on the mouth).
Dune is far more planned out and well constructed. If you must watch it, the miniseries is the better version for the narrative. The book series acknowledges how Jihad is used as a political tool, and religion itself is crafted to be used against the people. The later books even tell of religion run amok and destroying the ecology and economy.
If you want a sci-fi about the true nature of Jihad (religious struggle), Dune has you covered.
(Score: 4, Informative) by SecurityGuy on Monday December 14 2015, @04:27PM
...this is nonsense. Luke wanted to join the rebels before Episode IV even started. He barely knew Ben Kenobi (as he knew him). Luke wasn't isolated or disaffected. He wanted to go hang out with his friends and his uncle didn't allow him because he had chores to do. It sounded like he often hung out with his friends. He came across in the movie as friendly and well adjusted. Luke also didn't abandon his family, he left Tatooine only after his family was dead.
On the other hand, his "final casualty", Vader, started his reign of terror before Luke's birth by murdering a school full of children and capped it by blowing up an entire populated planet in order to scare people into obedience.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:44PM
Luke-like all of his friends-were joining the Imperial Academy to be pilots in the Navy. Most of the Rebel soldiers, especially the pilots were Imperial defectors.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:33PM
Luke+co are more like a bunch of fresh faced US Air Force Academy fighter pilots, who upon their first assignment to the middle east realize their cushy home lives were all a scam, their government is using foreign expeditions as a trial run for control of their domestic populace with peoples who don't have a voice (alien species and humans in remote backwaters, such as Tuni^H^H^HTatooine in Luke's case) and choose to either defect, or upon completing their tour to reup with the 'enemy', by way of the relatively moderate Rebel Alliance (Extended Universe provided a lot more depth to both the Rebel Alliance and other sometimes more extremist groups working against the Empire.)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:14PM
One can argue that iron-fisted dictators like Vader "keep the peace" similar to Middle East dictators before "the spring" and "WMD" invasion that triggered civil wars and zealotic semi-nomadic groups. If the semi-democracies or localized governments created a lot of interplanetary instability (which we don't really know), then Vader could argue that heavy-handed tactics are needed to keep the riff-raff in line and bring order. It's a matter of perspective.
On Earth, democracies are usually more peaceful and stable, but not always. Adolf was elected, for example. It could make an interesting and even thoughtful spoof if someone made the story from Vader's perspective, describing how you have to use violence to scare potential rebels into compliance.
Kind of reminds me how Ike Turner wrote a book from his perspective, claiming Tina used her powerful dance-tuned legs to physically abuse him rather than him being the abuser. Unlikely, but you can't entirely rule it out. It happens and is probably under-reported because there's more of a stigma against abused men.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday December 14 2015, @05:52PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by SecurityGuy on Monday December 14 2015, @08:41PM
Mapped into planet earth equivalents, it's quickly not as black and white as a fictional story written for children. If you're looking for someone with entirely clean hands in modern geopolitics, I think you're going to be disappointed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @08:50PM
We're both thinking of ISIS, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 15 2015, @07:03AM
Mapped into Earth equivalents, the good guy is the one who makes you richer.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday December 14 2015, @04:32PM
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday December 14 2015, @04:57PM
(spoiler alert)
Speaking of "another man", for a supposed religious analogy, there's only 5 mystics in the entire original trilogy, Luke, Vader, Yoda, Emperor, and Kenobi. But the greater overall battle is between at least tens of thousands of fighters on both sides, maybe billions total, and there's a huge number of extras and on screen minor characters who have no mystical side.
Interestingly the vast majority of both sides of the battle are entirely atheist, as near as I can tell. That makes it hard to spin as a religious jihad, when there's only a couple on each side and almost everyone pulling the trigger on a blaster or piloting a ship is an atheist. Usually Jihads involve someone more religious people than "2" or "3". If, thru just bad luck, some random blaster fire or a themal detonator lands over there or whatever and all five religious people could have been wiped out dropping the entire battle into pure atheist mode on both sides. That's interesting, and does little for the jihad narrative.
Now the prequels, of which the less said, the better, did have a lot more players on both sides, well, until Vader killed roughly everyone toward the end.
I'm not sure the prequels indicate the characters are even human. So people are surprised that you lock up a single teenage war hero with a hot single teenage princess and they wouldn't ... I mean what were they thinking? Looking at jar-jar how could any human be expected to tolerate that kind of character? The tension between Luke and his sister? Not sure what species they are, but it isn't human.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:53PM
If you can't keep it in your pants, at least keep it in the family.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:33PM
But not all freedom fighters blow up civilians to sow fear into the hearts of nations they dislike.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday December 14 2015, @06:02PM
The methods have changed slightly. And over the millennia, innocent people have been slaughtered to instill fear in a populace. Ever hear tales and stories where entire villages were burned to the ground? Same damn thing. Perhaps it wasn't always religious but the basic idea is someone either has some bat shit crazy idea in their head (this is where religion resides) or wants more power. Then they kill people to instill fear so other fall in line. It's the same old story played out over and over again.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Monday December 14 2015, @04:44PM
The analysis isn't wrong. Young men are stuffed full of hormones and out to prove themselves. Give them a cause they can believe in, and you can get them to fight for you. That's been the story of countless conflicts throughout history. We shouldn't forget that the winners write the history books, so we mostly only hear one side of the story, that of the "good guys" (because we wrote the books), whereas the failed side is painted as evil.
For the USaians out there, consider the American Civil War. According to the history books, it was all about slavery. Abe Lincoln, the shining hero, freed the slaves with his Emancipation. Of course, the story was more complex than that. As a prime example, the Emancipation only freed slaves in the Confederacy, even though there were slaves in other parts of the country ("all persons held as slaves within any State...in rebellion against the United States, shall be...free"). Doesn't fit the narrative, does it?
Pretty much every conflict in history is like that: Each side is evil, in the sincerely held view of the other side. If you don't dehumanize the enemy, how can you expect your civilians to support the war, and your soldiers to kill the enemy?
So, is Luke a young man seduced into fighting for a cause? Sure, he is. But the audience is on his side, so that makes him a hero, not a terrorist.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:00PM
Don't forget that immediately after the North won the war, the USA freed *all* slaves in the country. The Constitutional Amendment to abolish slavery was drafted before the war was even over and was passed by both Houses on January 1865, and took effect December 6, 1865 when at least 3/4 of the states (including the defeated Southern states) ratified it. The proper Constitutional process was followed to abolish slavery.
And while one might say slavery wasn't the *only* reason for the Civil War, it was certainly the 90% reason. Written proclamations from the Southern state legislatures that seceded said so. The question at issue was, would the new frontier territories being admitted into the Union be slave or free? Would the South be allowed to expand or keep its current borders?
(Score: 3, Informative) by curunir_wolf on Tuesday December 15 2015, @01:42AM
The Constitutional Amendment to abolish slavery was drafted before the war was even over and was passed by both Houses on January 1865, and took effect December 6, 1865 when at least 3/4 of the states (including the defeated Southern states) ratified it.
Yes, but recall that it was ratified, along with the 14th and 15th, by duress. The Southern states were required to ratify all of these amendments, and while the 13th was a straight-forward correction of the freedom-for-all ideal of the United States, the others imposed significant structural changes to the Union, consolidating more power with the central government than ever before conceived...
I am a crackpot
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:05PM
BTW, I wrote the AC response to your post. I will clarify that I agree with you, and while your Emancipation Proclamation example is correct (it didn't free all of them), let's not overstate it since, as I replied, all slaves were freed pretty soon after. The Constitutional process had to play out, as Lincoln wasn't quite dictator, but head of a republic. (Yes, a STRONG head.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @11:29PM
Gee, it sure doesn't sound like you agree with him. He's pushing a cherry-picked point of view and you are weighing it down with all the cherries he ignored. His cherries are still in the picking bucket but they have so much less prominence than they did when they were the only cherries in the bucket.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @04:48PM
I recall an analysis like this done in the early Interwebs, somewhere on Usenet. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:02PM
Here [weeklystandard.com] is one version, but I remember one earlier than this.
Whoever said anything put on the Internet will be there forever, never tried looking for anything older than 10 years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @08:46PM
> Whoever said anything put on the Internet will be there forever, never tried looking for anything older than 10 years.
If a web page falls out of google, does it still make a sound?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:10PM
I just want to know how much ISIS is paying Hugh Pickens for this drivel. Yeah, I get it: one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. But, has it really come to this now? At long last, have you no shame, sir?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:13PM
over a 30 years old fantasy farce!
(Score: 1, Troll) by kbahey on Monday December 14 2015, @06:00PM
What the hell is this nonsense?
So, Luke's uncle and aunt were killed in a mistaken raid? Collateral damage?
He had nothing to return to after his meeting with Obi Wan.
And the Death Star did not vaporize a planet?
And the Emperor did not declare the Galactic Empire dissolving the senate?
And Queen Amidala did not say: so this is how freedom dies? With thundering applause?
This revisionism is really stupid ...
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning [2bits.com].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:20PM
This revisionism is really stupid
No kidding. It is the sort of thing we see every day with real events. Revisionism cherry picking things and overblowing them (like this "Obi Wan — a religious fanatic"). It was like that Karate Kid one where they made the victim into the bully. When it was clear who the bullies were if you *watched the movie*.
This is nothing more than clickbait to get views onto his page with an sensationalized bit of trivia to piggy back on the hype of the up coming movie.
http://adam4d.com/captain-context/ [adam4d.com]
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Monday December 14 2015, @06:21PM
I think someone thinks they're hilarious, but they're not.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Monday December 14 2015, @06:26PM
This is just some guy who wrote an article he thought was funny and satirical but is actually just pretty tired, lame, and full of deliberate misinterpretations because he wasn't clever enough to find a better way to draw his parallels.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 1) by STDOUBT on Monday December 14 2015, @08:51PM
Actually, (perhaps sans the specific terrorism angle) the idea that the Empire were really the good guys has been kicking around nerddom for years.
The guy who put this page together actually wrote his dissertation on it.
http://ammonra.org/skywalkerparadigm/ [ammonra.org]
We must not say that every mistake is a foolish one.~Marcus Tullius Cicero
(Score: 4, Insightful) by captain_nifty on Monday December 14 2015, @06:27PM
What is far too often missed in todays society is using words based on what they actually mean, not to try and prove a point.
You are not a terrorist if you fight for a religious cause, even if unpopular.
You are not a terrorist if you fight against an established government.
You are not a terrorist if you commit a large scale murder.
You are a terrorist if your fighting is directed against civilian targets with the intent to provoke terror.
An established state can in fact be a terrorist state, I think the empire more than qualifies by blowing up an entire civilian planet solely in order to instill fear.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by isostatic on Monday December 14 2015, @06:47PM
You are a terrorist if your fighting is directed against civilian targets with the intent to provoke terror.
Only two groups of people trying to provoke terror today, and the main one is the media.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @10:58PM
I thought in politics and propganda, terrorists are the same as boogeymen, as the same as communists and so on.
There can only be one Emmanuel Goldstein, but he doesn't have to go by that name or even exist more than any other deity or belief system does. Proof defies faith, and all of that. Therefore, if you do not believe in us you are faithless and the faithless are godless and untrustworthy.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by The Archon V2.0 on Monday December 14 2015, @06:48PM
You might be interested in this series I saw decades ago. It's about a royal heir apparent using superior weaponry to maintain his family's hereditary regime. He repeatedly foils the rebellions of an underclass comprised almost completely of physically deformed people. The show is called "He-Man".
It's funny how messed-up most things with a defined "good" and "evil" look when you apply real-world shades of gray to them, which is why you need to be suspicious when real-world people start trying to sell you something as being "good" or "evil".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @07:07PM
I love this interpretation!
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Monday December 14 2015, @08:56PM
Well, sure, it all fits perfectly - if you rewrite the events of Star Wars to fit the needs of your article as this guy does.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 14 2015, @08:47PM
When I was small you could never have convinced me I would one day come to tire of Star Wars. Thanks George Lucas and Disney for having destroyed a significant through-line of my life.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday December 16 2015, @01:51PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 5, Informative) by srobert on Monday December 14 2015, @10:54PM
I always thought the moniker of Darth Cheney was appropriate for Dick Cheney. He obviously had Jedi powers. He shot a guy in the face and got the guy to apologize to him. I'll leave it to you to determine whether he drew these powers from the dark side of the force or not.