from the if-I-can-look-up-a-drone's-owner,-why-not-a-car's-owner,-too? dept.
From Gizmodo:
On Monday, the FAA will launch its online registry for drone operators with the aim of collecting personal information from the owners of these unmanned aircraft. But according to a report from Forbes, all those names and addresses will eventually be publicly available. Which seems... kinda scary?
Over at Forbes, John Goglia says he's been poking the FAA for answers ever since the FAQ about registration went up. Of particular concern are two contradictory statements from the FAA and DOT. The FAA says only their agency and a contractor will have access to the personal information collected. The DOT says that all information regarding registered aircraft must be made publicly available. So Goglia emailed the FAA until he got this answer:
"Until the drone registry system is modified, the FAA will not release names and address. When the drone registry system is modified to permit public searches of registration numbers, names and addresses will be revealed through those searches."
To me, despite the fact that I don't have a drone (nor do I plan on getting one), this is a very scary slippery slope that we are running down. Today it is a publicly searchable drone registry, what comes next? That I own a gun? My tax returns? How I voted in the last few elections? My medical history?
While I can see the want to keep tabs on drones that are able to carry cameras, and there are tremendous privacy concerns about it, having a database like this be publicly searchable is a VERY frightening prospect.
Related Stories
Drones could someday have a sort of invisible license plate that allows local authorities to determine who the unmanned aerial system (UAS) belongs too. Pitched by Chinese drone manufacturer DJI, the concept for an electronic identification system for small drones is just one of many ideas as the Federal Aviation Administration looks into potential ways of identifying drone users.
DJI suggests drones should use the radio equipment already on board most systems to transmit a unique registration number. That number would identify the drone owner to law enforcement in the event of a complaint or flight through a restricted area. Areas with restricted drone flight, such as airports, could use radio equipment to read that number and report the ID number to the authorities. Since identifying the drone would require access to a database linking each number with a name, the invisible license plate approach would be less likely to be abused outside of law enforcement, DJI suggests.
"The best solution is usually the simplest," DJI wrote on Monday. "The focus of the primary method for remote identification should be on a way for anyone concerned about a drone flight in close proximity to report an identifier number to the authorities, who would then have the tools to investigate the complaint without infringing on operator privacy."
Source: Digital Trends
Related: FAA Drone Registry to be Publicly Searchable
FAA Doubles "Blanket Authorization" Altitude for Drones to 400 Feet
Like a drone falling out of the sky:
The Federal Aviation Administration's requirement that hobby drone users register their devices was struck down in an appeals court Friday.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled in favor of John Taylor, a drone hobbyist who had challenged the legality of the FAA's drone-registration program.
The program, which was instituted in December 2015, required hobby drone owners to register through an FAA website for a $5 fee. Drone hobbyists were then issued a unique identification, which they were required to mark on their drones. Within the first month, nearly 300,000 drone owners had registered.
Previously:
All Drones in U.S. to Require Federal Registration
FAA Drone Registry to be Publicly Searchable
Drones and RC Models Must be Registered by February 16[, 2016]
Nearly 300,000 Recreational Drone Owners in U.S. Database
(Score: 1) by xpda on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:20AM
I agree this is unnecessary for small drones. The FAA records for full size aircraft are publicly searchable [faa.gov], however, and that's probably why the small drone database will be.
(Score: 3, Funny) by frojack on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:34AM
I have a small drone, 7 minutes flying time, tiny camera, etc. I suck at flying it. About 5 inches square.
Sending it to the nearest house across the street would be an accomplishment. Getting it back again in one piece without having to fetch it out of the bushes or off of a roof would be out of the question.
I'll be damned if I'm going to register it.
Yet, a better pilot could probably zoom it directly to some neighbors window, take a few pictures nd return. But since it can't get out of site, there's no reason it needs to register it, as anyone wanting to know who it belongs to need only follow it for 3 minutes and it will be in my tree in the front yard.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:39AM
Maybe you suck at flying it, and maybe you don't. As with all things, there are levels of quality. unless you paid several hundred dollars for your equipment, you probably have "consumer grade" quality.
I don't do RC modeling or drones, but I've read a number of stories bemoaning the trashy quality of drones sold to the curious consumer.
Assuming - wait, I spelled that wrong - ASSuming that you have some modest skill, and you're really interested in the hobby, maybe you should invest in some quality hardware.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:51AM
Are you sure that it's actually heavy enough to fall into the category that has to be registered? The FAA has a 10-page PDF covering examples of UAS that don't need to be registered [faa.gov] complete with names/photos, so you might want to double-check to be sure your model isn't among them...
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday December 22 2015, @02:27PM
Super-lightweight drones don't need to be registered?
Surely the 'worst case' drone is a tiny, high-tech drone with a high-quality camera, no?
If they don't exist today, they'll exist soon, and the registration exception will only encourage their development.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:07PM
I think the FAA considers the 'worst case' to be a fifty pound behemoth falling from a hundred feet or so directly onto your head. :)
(Score: 2) by BK on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:53PM
No, the FAA considers the worst case to be some fifty pound behemoth smashing through a working passenger plane engine or cockpit wind screen leading to the loss of dozens of lives in the resulting crash.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:54PM
I think the FAA considers the 'worst case' to be a fifty pound behemoth falling from a hundred feet or so directly onto your head. :)
I suspect they worry more about interference with REAL aircraft, getting sucked into engines or pierce a windshield.
We gotta get rid of these pesky toys and clear the skys for our customers.
Being able to program a drone to fly somewhere by GPS, take pictures and return reveals way too many things other parts of government would rather no one see. So they are pushing for restrictions as well. And the public isn't all that enthusiastic about having the neighborhood perv hovering drones outside their daughters windows.
So there appears a perfect storm of "Don't Want" from everybody except drone pilots.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by xpda on Tuesday December 22 2015, @03:25PM
You're not required to register it if it weighs less than half a pound or so (250 mg).
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @03:54PM
I think you probably meant 250g
250mg is about 0.009oz (the weight of about 15 house flies [yahoo.com])
If you have a camera carrying drone weighing less than that, I'm sure that some government agency will be knocking on your door with either wads of cash, or a bag to throw over your head.
Either way, good luck! :-)
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday December 22 2015, @07:10PM
Actually according to congress, you don't have to register it until it weighs 55 pounds.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/hr658_020112.pdf [modelaircraft.org]
That ended up being incorporated in statute [gpo.gov] as 49 USC 40101 SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:00AM
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ [faa.gov]
Lies are afoot.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Informative) by _NSAKEY on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:52AM
The ATF publishes FFL (Federal Firearms License) data, and the FCC does the same with ham operators. They not only have searchable websites, but also bulk data downloads. The fact that the FAA would do something similar shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:59AM
Read my comment below. Names and addresses were never supposed to be revealed. Or at least, that's what we were led to believe.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:13AM
Yup, it will now end up being, See Drone, look up Closest Drone owner and throw stones through his window.
Crowd-sourced drone suppression, all paid for by the registration fees.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday December 22 2015, @01:53PM
the FCC does the same with ham operators.
The future being unevenly distributed the endless paranoid butthurt the hams have had for a century can now extend to drone ops.
Ironically 20-30-40 years ago some folks got into ham radio by getting a technician (lowest) level license just to use the 6 meter ham band for RC aircraft (because there's a limited number of unlicensed channels thus competition, but if you use ham radio frequencies under fcc license, then theres less competition, because apparently ohms law is "too complicated" to learn) So the irony is 40 years ago maybe 1/4 of "drones" aka RC airplanes were already in a federal list of public addresses.
(Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday December 22 2015, @04:35PM
Not to mention registered gun owners and concealed carry license owners.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/ [cnn.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday December 22 2015, @05:57AM
From what I read in the FAA's FAQ, names and addresses weren't going to be public, unlike a separate aircraft registry. Here are the relevant portions:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ [faa.gov]
I'm sure some people read those same Q&A bits before registering like good citizens.
So as far as I'm concerned, a complete betrayal is in the making. But what else did you expect from a drone registry, which wasn't a thing just months ago?
Drones and RC Models Must be Registered by February 16 [soylentnews.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:35AM
So you can search by registry number, and presumably it will return details of the owner.
I don't think it would be difficult to write a script that increments the registry number, and loads the returned info into your own database.
Get a few friends to run it from different starting points, then merge the databases.
Hey presto!! Your own copy of the registry, searchable by anything you like.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:46AM
"In the future, the registration database will be searchable by registration number, but not by name or address. "
"Allowing searches of the unique identifying number of UAS will enable the return of these aircraft to their owners."
Between those two sentences I'd assume that the database will be searchable by registration number and the results of that search will include name and address. It's not really hidden.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday December 22 2015, @01:21PM
It's essentially hidden unless attackers can brute force the database with registration numbers or if the DOT takes precedence and all the information becomes publicly available. You can even hide your registration number in the drone's battery compartment or somewhere similar so that it can't be seen from videos/photos of the drone.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:15AM
drones in the names of my representatives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @06:53AM
So after I shoot down the drone that is violating my airspace, I can look up who the hell was operating the drone that was violating my airspace? I see no downside to this, unless you happen to be violating someone's airspace. Careful, frojack, cause I happen to know that your "across the street neighbor" Runaway is packing heat.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday December 22 2015, @07:28AM
I see no downside to this, unless you happen to be violating someone's airspace.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. I would no need to report to some authority to be able to use such a silly piece of property that I bought. The worrying thing is not random fools who do stupid things with drones, but the government's use of them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @07:46AM
OH, crap, the drone I just shot down has a serial number that starts with NRO, should I be worried?
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday December 22 2015, @02:26PM
Or you can turn it over to the police, who will have access to the registry.
The downside is that, while taking justice into one's own hands is illegal, that won't stop some misguided fool from hunting down your head because he accidentally mistyped a registration number.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 1) by xpda on Tuesday December 22 2015, @03:31PM
But it's not your airspace, according to the FAA. The FAA claims all national airspace. In fact, the FAA closed the national airspace for a while in 2001. I'm not sure whether this applies to kids flying kites or birds, but they're probably working on it.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday December 22 2015, @08:40AM
after a few months, someone Federal "requests" the sales figures for all the drones (wholesalers, retailers, whatever)
When the total sales figure is 100 or even 10,000 times larger than the number of registrations, I forsee a time when registration will occur *before* purchase, or as part of the sale.
What exactly is "free", in the "land of the free", these days?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Tuesday December 22 2015, @08:48AM
You have the freedom to choose between begging the government to allow you to engage in innocuous activities or being punished.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @09:03AM
Please.. let me breathe.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 22 2015, @10:04AM
Uh-huh - but have you ever wondered how many people build their own? They aren't building automobiles, after all. Like us computer geeks, they can probably build medium to high quality for half the price of cheap-assed consumer grade, mass marketed drones. People who are serious about having high quality (whatever thingy) don't settle for the shiny baubles that retailers offer.
(Score: 2) by slash2phar on Tuesday December 22 2015, @02:52PM
My tax returns?
Property Tax records are enthusiastically provided freely searchable online by most municipalities these days, providing a taxpayer's full legal name, address of residence, property value, even detailed floor plans in some cases. While real property title deeds are recorded at the county clerk's office, and so anyone can ultimately inquire as to the ownership or property be going down to city hall, I think the privacy impact of publishing this information online en mass (effectively handing it to third party data consolidators/reindexers/resellers) is more of a concern than saving on staff telephone call time at city hall.
(Score: 2) by ah.clem on Tuesday December 22 2015, @07:18PM
It doesn't matter if you fly a quad, sailplanes (as I do, or probably won't, anymore), electric, gas, control line, model rockets, etc., if it weighs more than 8.8 oz, you have to register it. This is directly the fault of the folks that fly quads BLOS FPV (Beyond Line Of Sight - First Person View) on highways, next to moving railroad trains pulling tankers, mounting handguns on them, flying over and through neighborhoods, etc. and then post the videos on YouTube for the world to see their achievements (search it on YouTube - it makes "Jackass" look tame). It takes very little skill to fly a quad; it's the "Here, hold my beer and watch this!" crowd that has caused this degradation to the sport of all RC flying. The AMA was seemingly pretty ineffectual in all of this, but there is some rumor that they might be mounting a lawsuit to stop the registration until it can be further refined. In any case, if you fly at an AMA sanctioned club field, you don't often find these quad issues. There are strict rules for all aircraft flown from AMA fields.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 22 2015, @07:46PM
Ham radio records have been online since forever now. You can plug any callsign in to the FCC database and get back their full name, address, what class of license they have and when they got it (or last renewed it) and when it expires.