from the 33177600-pixels-should-be-enough-for-anyone dept.
LG will show off a "Super UHD" 98-inch 8K resolution (7680×4320) TV set at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show (Jan. 6-9). It will also launch three 4K sets with high dynamic range (HDR) capability:
The super-slim design of the UH9500-series TVs have almost invisible bezels and a screen depth of just 6.6mm-that's less than a quarter-inch at its thinnest points. Screen sizes of the 4K models range from 49 to 86 inches. In addition to the three models, LG will also offer a standalone, attention-grabbing Super UHD TV with a huge 98-inch 8K screen.
[...] All sets will also include LG's IPS panel – noted for its advanced off-axis performance – further enhanced by two new LG technologies called True Black Panel and Contrast Maximizer, aimed at improving IPS' typically underwhelming black levels by reducing reflections and maximizing contrast by separating objects from their backgrounds, according to LG. The TVs also include SDR-to-HDR conversion to deliver near-HDR quality from standard sources.
Related Stories
3D and 4K were nothing! It's all about HDR now!
Netflix has confirmed it has begun its rollout of high dynamic range content on its TV and film streaming service. HDR videos display millions more shades of colour and extra levels of brightness than normal ones, allowing images to look more realistic.
However, to view them members will need a new type of TV or monitor and a premium-priced Netflix subscription. Some HDR content had already been available via Amazon's rival Instant Video service. Ultra-high-definition 4K Blu-ray discs - which launched in the UK earlier this week - also include HDR data.
Netflix's support follows January's creation of a scheme defining the HDR standards a television set must meet to be marketed with an "Ultra HD Premium" sticker. [...] The US firm recommends its members have at least a 25 megabits per second connection to view them.
High-dynamic-range imaging at Wikipedia.
Related:
A Look at AMD's GPU Plans for 2016
LG to Demo an 8K Resolution TV at the Consumer Electronics Show
The top google hits say that there is little or no benefit to resolution above 4k. I recently bought a 40" 4k tv which I use as a monitor (2' viewing distance). While this is right at the threshold where I'm told no benefit can be gained from additional resolution, I can still easily discern individual pixels. I'm still able to see individual pixels until I get to about a 4' viewing distance (but I am nearsighted).
I did some research and according to Wikipedia the Fovea Centralis (center of the eye) has a resolution of 31.5 arc seconds. At this resolution, a 4k monitor would need to be only 16" at a 2' viewing distance, or my 40" would need a 5' viewing distance.
Now the Fovea Centralis comprises only the size of 2 thumbnails width at arms length (2° viewing angle) and the eye's resolution drops off quickly farther from the center. But this tiny portion of the eye is processed by 50% of the visual cortex of the brain.
So I ask, are there any soylentils with perfect vision and/or a super high resolution set up, and does this match where you can no longer discern individual pixels? Do you think retina resolution needs to match the Fovea Centralis or is a lesser value acceptable?
My 40" 4k at 2' fills my entire field of view. I really like it because I have so much screen real estate for multiple windows or large spreadsheets, or I can scoot back a little bit for gaming (so I don't have to turn my head to see everything) and enjoy the higher resolution. I find 4k on high graphics looks much nicer than 1080p on Ultra. I find the upgrade is well worth the $600 I spent for the tv and a graphics card that can run it. Have you upgraded to 4k and do you think it was worth it? I would one day like to have dual 32" 8k monitors (not 3D). What is your dream setup if technology and price weren't an issue?
Written from my work 1366 x 768 monitor.
Related discussions: First "8K" Video Appears on YouTube
LG to Demo an 8K Resolution TV at the Consumer Electronics Show
What is your Video / Monitor Setup?
Microsoft and Sony's Emerging 4K Pissing Contest
More 8K (4320p) TVs will be coming soon. AU Optronics has announced plans to ship 8K panels to TV manufacturers starting in the first half of 2018:
The lineup of panels featuring a 7680×4320 resolution will be aimed at ultra-high-end TVs and sizes will range from 65 to 85 inches, said Liao Wei-Lun, president of AUO's video products business group, at a press conference. The high-ranking executive did not disclose other specifications of the panels, such as luminance and contrast ratio, but given their positioning, it is logical to expect their characteristics to be comparable to 8K UHDTVs to be offered by LG and Samsung.
Multiple TV makers demonstrated various 8K UHDTVs at various trade shows in the recent years, but so far no one has started to sell them. Given the lack of content, it is hard to expect high demand for 8K televisions in the next couple of years, aside from the halo factor - nonetheless, AUO expects 8K panels to account for 10% of its '65-inch and above' panel shipments in 2020. The presumably high-cost of the panels would indicate that in terms of unit shipments this might still be a low-ish number. However, as with 4K displays, someone has to release 8K TVs to stimulate content providers to offer appropriate material. At this year's CES, Samsung demonstrated its Q9S, its first commercial 8K TV-set, but it did not announce its pricing or availability timeframe. LG and Sony also demonstrated their 8K TVs at CES 2018, but nothing is clear about their plans regarding these products.
[...] As for 8K displays for PCs, Dell is currently the only company to offer an 8K monitor (this one is based on a panel from LG, so the latter might introduce its own 8K display at some point). Philips last year promised to start shipments 328P8K monitor in 2018, so expect the product to hit the market in the coming months too.
Need something to watch on your 8K TV? How about the 2020 Olympics?
Also at DigiTimes.
Related: LG to Demo an 8K Resolution TV at the Consumer Electronics Show
Dell Announces First "Mass-Market" 8K Display
Philips Demos an 8K Monitor
Pimax Launches Kickstarter for "8K" Virtual Reality Headset
HDMI 2.1 Released
LG's 88-inch 8K OLED TV
(Score: 3, Interesting) by damnbunni on Monday January 04 2016, @04:07AM
I really don't want an 8K TV. At living room viewing distances, it's overkill.
However, I'd really really really like to have this: An '8K' resolution 17" desktop monitor.
http://www.j-display.com/english/news/2015/20151001.html [j-display.com]
I've been asking for 'a monitor as sharp as a phone screen' for a while, and this would be it. Text that sharp would do wonders for alleviating eyestrain.
(Operating system support would likely suck, but hey.)
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 04 2016, @04:44AM
120 Hz? Wow. Neither HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort 1.3 can carry that, right?
Apparently Super MHL is needed.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2865872/tv-makers-propose-new-connector-for-8k-video.html [pcworld.com]
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(Score: 2) by Gravis on Monday January 04 2016, @05:10AM
i find it highly unlikely that they would release such a monitor to consumers because of high manufacturing failure rates. it seems more likely we would get 8K at 30Hz for TVs and maybe get a 60Hz version for computers. the 120Hz version would cost an arm and a leg. why? it's easier to make slower displays and leaves them with an upgrade path for the future.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by captain normal on Monday January 04 2016, @05:19AM
Have you seen a HD TV released in the last 8 years that didn't have both VGA and HDMI inputs? There's nothing to keep one from using that for a monitor. Of course what you get depends on on your display chip and software.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Gravis on Monday January 04 2016, @06:17AM
Have you seen a HD TV released in the last 8 years that didn't have both VGA and HDMI inputs? There's nothing to keep one from using that for a monitor.
did you break your leg because you took quite the leap to that conclusion. find where you can buy that display. (hint: it's sold just above the unicorns but below x-ray glasses [imcharmingyou.com])
(Score: 2) by bziman on Tuesday January 05 2016, @12:39AM
Actually, I don't think I've seen even one that has VGA in the past few years. Maybe it's just Samsung that doesn't do VGA ports anymore?
Nope, just did a quick search on Amazon... Samsung doesn't have VGA. Neither does Sony. Nor LG.
Too bad, because my old server doesn't have HDMI on it, and it now lives next to the TV. I'm going to have to buy a converter.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by captain normal on Tuesday January 05 2016, @04:14AM
Well all I can say is that there is a Sony Bravia 40" screen sitting right here in the living room. It has 3 HDMI ports and a USB port as well as co-ax in and S-Video in as well as a VGA input. I have a 20" el cheapo (I don't remember the brand) TV on the boat with VGA input, as well as HDMI in addition to the co-ax in. I have an old Dell Studio on the boat that I plug into TV to use as a larger monitor. I've used the Sony as a monitor several times with my ThinkPad that has both HDMI and VGA connections.
Here (http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN40JU7100FXZA) is a Samsung 40"UHD Smart TV that has 4 HDMI ports, 3 USB ports + ethernet and Bluetooth.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by captain normal on Tuesday January 05 2016, @04:21AM
So yes no VGA on that model. But with everything else do you need VGA?
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by Gravis on Monday January 04 2016, @05:12AM
(Operating system support would likely suck, but hey.)
umm... only if you are using windows.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @05:46AM
Yeah, we need this like a fish needs a bicycle...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Monday January 04 2016, @07:08AM
The problem is gonna be feeding that beast enough bandwidth, which is why I think both 4K and 8K are gonna strictly be a niche for film makers for the foreseeable future. For you to sell such tech to Joe and Jane Average there has to be plenty of content to play on the thing and at least in the states (which is where a big chunk of that consumer spending comes from) the infrastructure just isn't there to make 4K and 8K as common as 1080P.
Finally from talking to folks at the shop both 4K and 8K are gonna be a REAL hard sell as people are happy with 1080P and see no reason to replace what they have. Hell looked at DVD sales recently? Last I checked they are still selling at a pretty good clip and that tech isn't even 720P, but to Joe and Jane its "good enough" and with modern DVD players all having upscaling and most on demand video not even being 1080P? Its gonna be a really hard sell to get them to shell out the $$$$ to make 4K have the economies of scale required to beat 1080P, much less for 8K to go anywhere.
But it will find its niche in the same place where every single 4K unit I know of in my area is located...with film makers. All the new pro video cameras are high res like the digital RED units so I'm sure that just like DAT never caught on with consumers but did well with studios so too will 4K and 8K become standard for video production which Joe and Jane will watch on some 50in 1080P screen munching their popcorn.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday January 04 2016, @09:20AM
The existence of retarded tellies like my Samsung - which run linux but can't read ext* filesystems from the USB key, and thus can't play >4 GiB files - probably helps keeps interest in real HD content restrained. What freaking retard spec'ed that design? I could add ext* support, as could anyone who'se used linux for more than a few days, by adding 1 line to 1 file; but no, that's too hard for a little company that only employs hundreds of thousands.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @09:58AM
They are probably worried people will be confused it the resulting filesystem can't be read on a Windows machine :P
The fact that ExFAT [wikipedia.org] is a supported thing boggles the mind. Of course, Microsoft appears to have deliberately broken UDF support on hard-drives (requires a DOS partition table apparently).
some comments here [ortolo.eu] mention another (possibly related) pet-peeve. All of thees devices that experience write amplification if you use sectors less than 4k, advertise a block-size of 512 bytes for some reason.
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Tuesday January 05 2016, @03:44PM
There's a 1080p x265 version of blade runner on a torrent. Closest I can imagine to seeing a blu ray disc without ever seeing one. Noone I know has a blu ray player let alone a movie that costs 30% of the player. Cool, but I don't have gas money, let alone a 4k HDTV!
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 2) by edIII on Monday January 04 2016, @08:56PM
I'm likewise not interested in LG :)
Of course, much like the Sony rootkit, I'd like to remind fellow Soylentils that LG was caught red handed spying on all of their customers via firmware in their Smart TVs that enumerated all networking storage devices on the same network, and sent all of the meta data about videos and music that could be accessed back to LG's servers.
LG is a spyware company. Act accordingly.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @05:04AM
I still remember the mass media reports coming out of CES 2014; that was the apex of the Internet of Things circular-feedback-self-hype-loop curve. I felt dumber for having listened to American Public Media's "Marketplace", and haven't taken that show seriously ever since. Kai and crew used to skewer, grill, and scruitinize the business news, but they're getting soft in their older age and desperation for underwriter revenue, so they're chasing hype trains like dogs chasing cars on the Interstate. The Frank Stanton Studios in LA have a smug cloud floating around them, a sort of surrogate Silicon Valley Hype Sphere protecting them from rational thought.
I can't wait to see the parade of stupidity out of CES. According to Twitter handle @internetofshit [twitter.com], Samsung has started the party with a fridge with a giant tablet set in the door [twitter.com]. How boringly uncreative, and yet, IoS is having a field day with it.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday January 04 2016, @05:46AM
In the late 80s, there was a short lived fad in which an LCD digital watch was built into all kinds of things. My grandmother gave me a pen with one built into the top. It was cute and all, but not practical. And today, where are these gadgets?
Another fad still going on is the super hi-fi audio and video, and 3D video. DVDs are good enough for me, sure ain't paying a premium for Blu Ray.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @06:38AM
My theory is that ultra-high definition audio-visuals is just another form of "copy protection" and the pirates have not figured that out yet. (Or, maybe they have, and capturing "protected" 4k video is more for bragging rights).
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 04 2016, @07:38AM
Good theory.
The content industry is keeping 4K close (streaming DRM), and capturing it is a matter of bragging rights (with impractically large file sizes due to inefficient encoding):
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/08/30/0159222 [soylentnews.org]
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(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday January 04 2016, @01:18PM
In the late 80s, there was a short lived fad in which an LCD digital watch was built into all kinds of things.
It extended at least into the 90s. I had a kitchen with about 20 clocks in it, and I didn't want them but the market wouldn't sell a microwave oven without a clock, or a radio (remember that technology?) without a clock, or a coffee maker without a clock, or a stove without a clock, etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @06:18PM
The last VCR I got had a clock display, but no real-time-clock chip.
That meant that it drifted by 13 seconds/ week or something like that (maybe it was per day). I actually measured and complained about it. They assumed that you could sync with the cable signal.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by pTamok on Monday January 04 2016, @07:30AM
As someone (not me, but I can't find the link right now) has pointed out, we don't need higher resolution: the optimal improvement right now would be to increase the real frame rate. Manufacturers are increasing the resolution because that is (a) easy compared to increasing real frame rate and (b) the average person thinks higher resolution is better.
Some manufacturers are going for a better colour gamut, which is also good.
By 'real frame rate', I do not mean the display refresh rate. That is independent of the frame rate. Usually, the two are related by a simple ratio. Modern displays that advertise themselves as 100 Hz (Europe) or 120 Hz (USA) displays are taking the standard TV frame display rate, and doubling it*. This does not double the amount of information displayed, but is intended to cut down on the amount of 'flicker' perceived. The quality of video would be improved if the actual frame rate were increased: movement would look smoother. This would, however, be a massive change in broadcast video infrastructure.
Ask any POV video gamer how they would feel if restricted to a frame rate of 50 Hz or 60 Hz.
*Yes, this is an oversimplification. Look up video interlacing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video [wikipedia.org] if you are interested.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 04 2016, @07:48AM
So you want Peter Jackson's 48 FPS move for the Hobbit to catch on? Or more 60+ FPS video sources like GoPro (Hero 4 Black does 720p at up to 240 FPS)?
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(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Monday January 04 2016, @08:27AM
So you want Peter Jackson's 48 FPS move for the Hobbit to catch on?
Why not? There's nothing instrinsically "wrong" with it.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 04 2016, @05:03PM
I didn't say it was. I just had trouble understanding what GP actually wants. The high frame rate sources are out there, and will probably increase if VR catches on. Monitors don't peak at 120 Hz either. 144 Hz is common, although you pay a premium, and I have seen 200 Hz.
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(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday January 06 2016, @08:13PM
Standard broadcast video and most DVD/Blu Ray sources run at the 50 or 60 Hz frame rates, and it will take a while (a decade is a reasonable order-of-magnitude quantity) for higher frame rates to take off. The display refresh frequencies can be higher than the video frame rate: either by displaying the same frame multiple times; or by interpolating frames into the video stream. Both techniques are used. There is not that much source material recorded at higher frame rates. If nothing else, it takes more capacity. As I implied: it is sporting events that are likely to drive demand in broadcast video. You correctly point out that VR also benefits from higher frames rates, and that will also be a driver for improved infrastructure.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 06 2016, @08:31PM
Umm, no. Isn't it usually 24/30 Hz?
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(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday January 06 2016, @09:36PM
Well, to be strict, NTSC is 29.97 frames per second, and PAL is 25 frames per second (and so is SECAM). Broadcast Standard Definition video is interlaced, Broadcast HD is 720p, 1080i or 1080p (p=progressive scan, i = interlaced scan).
In the interlaced model the screen is refreshed at twice the frame rate with half the rows - even numbers at one refresh, odd the other. So while the frame rate, is as you say, strictly 29.97 and 25 frames per second, the screen is refreshed at twice that frequency (known as the field rate): this isn't true for progressive scan displays.
I'll quote Wikipedia:
Interlacing provides full vertical detail with the same bandwidth that would be required for a full progressive scan of twice the perceived frame rate and refresh rate. To prevent flicker, all analog broadcast television systems used interlacing.
Format identifiers like 576i 50 and 720p 50 specify the frame rate for progressive scan formats, but for interlaced formats they typically specify the field rate (which is twice the frame rate). This can lead to confusion, because industry-standard SMPTE timecode formats always deal with frame rate, not field rate. To avoid confusion, SMPTE and EBU always use frame rate to specify interlaced formats, e.g., 480i 60 is 480i/30, 576i 50 is 576i/25, and 1080i 50 is 1080i/25. This convention assumes that one complete frame in an interlaced signal consists of two fields in sequence
To be clear: you are right, and I was wrong to sloppily refer to the field rate as the frame rate.
If you want to know more about that odd 29.97 number, this discussion thread will help: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-29-97-frames-per-ntsc-standard.334830/ [physicsforums.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @08:08AM
optimal with respect to what?
personally, I think more pixels would be a lot better than higher frame rates, since I do need to put a lot of information at once on my screen, but that information doesn't really need to be updated that often. I think 30Hz at a minimum are acceptable for typing (that would be 30fps if you insist on talking abou frame rates).
but generically saying "better frame rates"? what does that even mean? are you just talking about TV and movies? to be honest, I think suspension of disbelief works fine with 24fps as long as the actors and the writers know what they're doing. maybe it would help with sports, but I doubt there are many people who would notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps when the action takes place in 10000 cm^2 ~3m away...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @08:34AM
At 24fps, the camera has to avoid fast pans (otherwise you get jutter).
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Monday January 04 2016, @02:32PM
It's not about suspension of disbelief, but it is about being able to watch a soccer ball as it is kicked, or the flight of a golf-ball. At existing frame rates, fast-moving objects don't show up well - they are either motion smeared (if you are lucky) or appear as a set of disconnected images in a path, which makes the motion jerky. And, as somebody else pointed out: fast pans really don't work, so TV manufacturers are resorting to tricks to try and make HD content look good - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur. [wikipedia.org]
Your visual processing system is very sensitive to movement, and while you can rely on persistence of vision to work well enough for static or slow-moving objects, your brain will pick up the weirdness that happens with video of objects that displace by a significant amount between frames. Your visual system really doesn't like things that move in a set of staccato jumps (Incidentally, this is posited as one of the reasons people don't like spiders - their limbs move faster than we can see - I don't have the link to hand).
(Score: 2) by Marco2G on Monday January 04 2016, @09:46AM
Due to a lack of availability on DVD, I still keep watching heavily washed out and fragmented versions of The Nanny ripped from plain old TV resolutions.
Sooo.... what good is it to have a high end display if the content you want to watch is not available at that quality? Sure, I'm not into a lot of modern TV programming, so others might have less of an issue but I keep reading how people are through all the high res content on Amazon and Netflix, what little there seems to be of it.
Hell, as far as I know, current gen consoles still do not manage to consistently deliver even FullHD content.
Similar things happen on the PC. My 1440p display is plenty enough for me to enjoy with a now outdated mid-gen graphics card. The pay to gain ratio now is getting ridiculous.
(Score: 3, Funny) by snufu on Monday January 04 2016, @11:58AM
I can finally play Pong without downsampling.
(Score: 4, Informative) by VLM on Monday January 04 2016, @01:27PM
Two other points from the article
1) Weird fixation on device thin-ness continues. This is a quarter inch thick. What a stupid waste of time and money. I'd rather pay half price for something a whopping half inch thick. Or pay full price for something thick, but larger. Well that sounded like pr0n. Anyway the problem with idiotic "tail fin" style products is not the tail fins themselves, but the obvious display of mismanagement that resulted in them. You'd have to be pretty stupid to base your purchase on TV thin-ness therefore not being stupid I have no interest in their TV.
2) Its one of those POS smart TVs, not a real TV. So it'll take 30 seconds to start up even if you're just using it as a display monitor for your xbox, and it'll be super clumsy to use. A $50 roku will have a better UI, because they sell UIs, not TVs. So that's unfortunate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @10:09PM
Lol. I'm going to bet this is just bog standard bilinear filtering that turns everything into a blurry mess.