Tensions Rise in Germany Over Handling of Mass Sexual Assaults in Cologne
The Guardian reports:
A ferocious debate has erupted in Germany over the handling of mass sexual assaults and muggings carried out by groups of young males during New Year's Eve celebrations in Cologne, amid accusations of a police and media cover-up over fears of whipping up anti-foreigner sentiment in the wake of the migrant crisis.
About 100 complaints have now been made to police, two-thirds of which are linked to sexual assault, including two rapes. According to police and witnesses, the perpetrators were of north African and Arab appearance, although neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.
If you're not already feeling queasy enough be sure to read the link "Asian sex-grooming gangs in the UK" in the article. Apparently you can find similar stories from all over the UK, these sexual crimes against underage girls perpetrated by muslims are sickeningly common.
Conspiracy of Silence - or Sensationalist Reporting?
There are a number of marginal news sites posting stories out of Europe these days, mostly from Germany, Sweden, as well as other claims made regarding Finland and the UK. The claims all center around a huge increase in rapes by immigrants, outright take over of public train stations, and mass groping of women passing through the stations.
According to these reports, the incidents started in midsummer and continue to this day, but the local news organizations have refused to publish reports of these incidents even after arrests have been made. Often police are accused of withholding the news of any complaints or arrests for months.
The clear implication, more often implied than stated is that the national leaders who went public in their pledges to accept refugees from the middle east war zones as well as northern Africa are leaning on main stream news outlets to suppress news reports of these rapes and sexual assaults. This suppression, if it exists, also appears to extend to the US press.
The assaults aren't limited to European women, but also include women in the immigrant shelters, some as young as 16. The immigrant shelters population in Munich is 80% male. But not all the alleged perpetrators are migrants from the recent wave of mass migrations over the summer and fall. Some are earlier immigrants from North Africa who don't necessarily live in the camps.
Finally some reports are leaking into the western press in the US, such as this brief report in the New York Times about events on New Years Eve. That same event was reported by a couple of the British tabloids.
Many reports are in German, Here and Here. (Google Translate does well with these pages). Others are in English such as this one and this one.
Are any Soylentils living in the EU near refugee centers seeing these problems? Is it being reported? Is it being repressed? Or is the whole thing a made up issue by biased articles in fringe news sites?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @05:04PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @05:33PM
I really appreciate Soylent News reporting this. I have been seeing headlines about this on one site that I frequent, but they are putting it all in an anti-immigration context that I can't stomach.
FTA: "There’s no evidence that we’re dealing here with people who are refugees.”
That's A bit at odds with frojak's claim that "But not all the alleged perpetrators are migrants from the recent wave of mass migrations over the summer and fall. Some are earlier immigrants from North Africa who don't necessarily live in the camps."
Also, the conspiracy theory that "they" aren't reporting on it due to the immigrant angle, when there actually isn't an immigration angle yet, is amusing.
"They look Arab," really shouldn't be sufficient evidence for rape accusations.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by moondrake on Friday January 08 2016, @05:57PM
well, the story is, as far as I followed it, is that the police (and hence some articles) at first claimed they were not refugees, and then other news outlets started reporting that anonymous sources within the police actually did claim they were refugees. Which obviously fits perfectly in the believe we are being lied to...
The truth, as far as I have been able to establish, is simply that the police themselves had little clue what was going on at first and of the group of people that has been identified so far was rather diverse. Some may be refugees, but others were not. Most were however, sadly, foreigners, and a large part with a North African identify (it is likely these are indeed not refugees, but that matters little to some as they are still immigrants...). It remains to be seen how large the group of refugees involved actually was. Obviously the fact that part of this group may have been refugees is now being used to say the police lied. But I do not envy the job of these people...
Fact is however that a group of mainly migrants committed a type of organized sexual assault that is relatively unprecedented, and since they "look Arab" (and are mostly foreign), all people who look like that will probably pay for it.
To answer the editors question: Even though I live relatively close to a refugee center, I did not see problems. But then, I tend to stay away from large groups of young people pretending to have fun parties. Usually all kind of shit happens at such places, regardless of their nationality.
(Score: 5, Informative) by bradley13 on Friday January 08 2016, @06:33PM
You, of course, are taking the other side, and downplaying the problem. Let's take one statement from your comment:
"Fact is however that a group of mainly migrants committed a type of organized sexual assault that is relatively unprecedented..."
...aaaaand stop. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant. They didn't just "look Arab", they were Arab. It's not "anonymous sources" claiming that many are recent Syrian refugees, it's an internal police report that was suppressed because it might be "politically awkward".
Will the muslim community as a whole take a hit because of this? Yes, of course, that's inevitable. People generalize, and it's not bands of Chinese grandmothers assaulting people.
What's missing here is the outrage of the Muslim community, and any attempt to police it's own bad actors. We could have leading muslim scholars publicly calling down shame on young men who behave like barbarians. Instead, leading muslim scholars are calling on members of the police force to resign [www.welt.de], because they failed to stop said barbarians before they could assault people.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @07:36PM
They didn't just "look Arab", they were Arab. It's not "anonymous sources" claiming that many are recent Syrian refugees, it's an internal police report that was suppressed because it might be "politically awkward".
[Citation Needed] This information is certainly not included in any of the articles linked to this story. And, we have a direct quote from one article that explicitly contradicts this assertion.
(Score: 5, Informative) by bradley13 on Friday January 08 2016, @08:09PM
Were the assault by Arabs? Was this known at the time?
First, the local Cologne newspaper reports that the police deliberately hid their knowledge that most of the people whose identities they checked at the time were new refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan [www.ksta.de]. This was suppressed, because it was deemed "politically awkward". I've given you the original source - Google will give you English articles referring to it.
Identifying individuals out of the mass is difficult, and so far they only have 31 suspects definitely identified [wochenblatt.de] - these in association with non-sexual crimes like simple theft. They include 18 refugees, and the nationalities are: 9 Algerians, 8 Moroccans, 5 Iranians, 4 Syrians, 1 Iraq, 1 Serbian, 1 American and 2 Germans. By the common definition of Arab, that makes 27 of 31, and of those 27 some two-thirds are refugees.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 08 2016, @10:36PM
In particular, Germany has a large German-born ethnically-Turkish population that could easily "look Arab" without actually being Syrian refugees, so part of what seems to be going on is the connecting of dots that may or may not be connected. It could be entirely true that (1) Thousands of people have come to Germany from the Middle East, and (2) People who look like they might have been from the Middle East committed these crimes, and (3) The people who committed the crimes weren't part of the thousands of people who came to Germany.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @11:32AM
All of which won't matter to those opposed to "letting in foreigners with bad cultures".
So say it's the German born Turkish who did it, then it'll be:
1) We shouldn't have let in the Turkish in the first place
2) Letting in the Syrians in just makes such incidents more likely later on.
In my opinion countries should be choosy on which immigrants can become residents or citizens. Pick the best of the bunch who have a good chance of helping your country. Immigration can't really help the source countries that much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE [youtube.com]
Doctors Without Borders can help others but their effectiveness in doing so would be reduced if they randomly let in anyone who wanted to join their organization.
If you want to help countries, _go_there_ and help them. But more importantly stop screwing them up like the USA intentionally does. The USA is one of the main parties responsible for the mess in Syria (they supported the Syrian opposition and extremist groups to try to weaken or topple the Syrian Gov), as such if any country should take in the bulk of the refugees it's them and the other countries who helped create the mess in the first place.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 08 2016, @08:42PM
Well, if you used to have N Arab related events in a place, and you swell the Arab population by a factor of 10, it would not be unexpected to have Nx10 of those same type of Arab related events after the population increase.
Unprecedented, maybe N was 0.1 before the influx?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday January 14 2016, @08:49AM
Oh come on, its much more complex than that.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/13/muslim-prof-rape-gangs-inevitable-muslim-men-live-in-britain-as-if-it-was-pakistan/ [breitbart.com]
Rumy Hasan, a senior lecturer at the University of Sussex’s Centre for Migration Research, said “do-what-you-want” and “laissez-faire” policies had let immigrant communities live as if they were still in countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
This has led to a “psychiatric detachment” from mainstream British culture, he added, which in turn leads to a “social detachment” where minority communities do not mix with wider society.
Dr Hasan – who is a former Muslim – also said that Muslim rape gangs in towns such as Rochdale and Rotherham were an “inevitable consequence” of this.
The Sun quotes him as saying: “The authorities in towns and cities — Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford, Oldham, Birmingham — kept quiet because they were embarrassed.
“It’s time we woke up and smelled the coffee.”
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 14 2016, @02:15PM
Yeah, what's really needed is to segregate the immigrant men and women, locate them on opposite sides of the host country, then force them to intermarry with the indigenous population so their children are properly integrated. In the meantime, the new immigrants should be forbidden from congregating with their own kind, given extra hours of social integration schooling, and obviously watched extra closely by police.
I think what I said still applies, 10x the population, 10x the incidence of whatever they do. I also think everybody would expect new Chinese to gravitate toward Chinatown and do Chinese kinds of things, even though they live in the UK now - why would Arabs be any different?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday January 14 2016, @08:38PM
Yeah, what's really needed is to segregate the immigrant men and women
That part has already been done by the immigrants themselves, They came that way.
Some 80% of the immigrants in Koln are un-attached males of military age.
Nobody in germany is separating families. You made that up.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 15 2016, @02:10AM
Reread the previous comment and try to separate out the sarcasm, it should be pretty obvious.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Monday January 11 2016, @10:25AM
It depends a little bit on how exactly you define Arab, but fine. I used that phrase because it was used in the first reports, and I pointed out that people who look like that are going to be the subject of violence now. This has indeed already happened according to the news today.
Also, the first reports that refugees were involves were anonymously leaking an INTERNAL report. You mention that yourself. Not sure what your problem is with that.
The fact that people from all sides call for officials to resign is not so surprising, you also imply they made mistakes. But you are right that various communities should take responsiblility, but I am not only waiting for the Muslim side. Public apologies of the leading extremist politicians calling down shame on the young men who currently behave like barbarians would be nice as well.
It wont happen.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @07:50PM
But then, I tend to stay away from large groups of young people pretending to have fun parties. Usually all kind of shit happens at such places, regardless of their nationality.
+6 for that sentence; that is the most insightful thing that has been said in this entire thread. (With all due respect to the victims of this crime, who may not have had a choice as to where they were at the moment.)
When all the fuss was going on about black kids in "hoodies" my wife was quick to point out she was scared of plenty of kids in hoodies regardless of their color. And I realized I was, too!
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:02PM
There’s no evidence that we’re dealing here with people who are refugees.
It's a diversion tactic. They're immigrants (because native Germans are not black) but by claiming "there's no evidence they were refugees" they can shift away your attention.
Also, the conspiracy theory that "they" aren't reporting on it due to the immigrant angle
Gewalt von Köln "keinesfalls neu", sie wurde totgeschwiegen, sagt Ex-Polizist [epochtimes.de]
Violence of Köhn "in no way something new", is being silenced, says ex-policeman
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:53PM
Oh just fuck off with your racist drivel. There are plenty of native black Germans. Not as many as there might have been because of a previous racist twat who had some slightly black-unfriendly policies. Name a field which doesn't have an obvious bias, and you'll find a black native german. Let's start with an easy one, footie - Jerome Boateng, Dennis Aogo, Antonio Rudiger, Sidney Sam, and probably others, those are just the ones that have played for the national team AFIAK. (Where national = German, I ought to add, as it's not entirely certain you'd have the intelligence to work that out yourself.)
Perhaps learn the difference between "ethnic" and "native".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:06PM
>this is what liberals actually believe
mixed race (other parent is from Ghana)
mixed race (other parent is from Nigeria)
mixed race (other parent is from Sierra Leone)
mixed race (other parent is from Nigeria)
I wonder what color the other (German) parent is.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @07:07PM
They're immigrants (because native Germans are not black)
There are plenty of black German citizens who were born in Germany and are clearly not immigrants. This is poor logic even for someone who literally judges people based on the color of their skin.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:19PM
someone who literally judges people based on the color of their skin.
Judges? That's a bold statement: how about something to back it up? Distinguishment, yes, but there was no value judgement.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @07:32PM
You literally just said black people can't be "Real Germans."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:36PM
Did I now? I said 'native' Germans; not 'real' Germans. Not very 'literally', now is it?
I have been informed above that I should probably have used the word 'ethnic' which is more what I was going for. Not that you need to believe me, mind you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:42PM
I will just point out that being born in Germany does not automatically confer German citizenship; Germany does not have the same citizenship rules that we have in America. ("If the first foot falls on US soil...") I can't recall exactly what the requirements are, but if memory serves, among other requirements you had to have been born there and your grandparents had to have lived for a time in Germany (and your parents, of course) and you have to have a "German" name. I could be wrong about these so if someone knows better, please chime in. I lived in Germany for three years as a visiting scholar. I still find it incredible that I could more easily obtain German citizenship (three grandparents from Germany) than someone who was born and had lived their entire lives there.
Back over to your previously scheduled rant.
(Score: 2) by Geotti on Friday January 08 2016, @09:22PM
You can apply for German citizenship after 8 years of living here amongst other possibilities (such as being an ethnic German from Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine, etc.; being of Jewish descent, where the ancestors were in a concentration camp; getting adopted; being born with one parent being German; etc.).
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:48PM
Germany does not have the same citizenship rules that we have in America.
We? What fricking "we" do you refer to here, you damn crypto-Nazi!! Yeah, American. Sure you are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:09AM
Crypto-Nazi?!? I'm referring to the current law of the land here in the US of A, ya blithering fuckwit! Currently, if someone is born here in this country they are eligible for US citizenship, regardless of the status of the parents. If you have a problem with that, then go find another fascist utopia to call your new home! All ist klar, no?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:39AM
Citation? What percentage of German citizens are black, or brown, or any race other than Caucasian?
Do you know, or are you just assuming something that you hope to be true?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @04:27AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany#Migrant_background_and_foreign_nationality [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Jiro on Friday January 08 2016, @06:45PM
They don't have to actually be immigrants in order for the news/politicians to think that it makes immigrants look bad, and keep it quiet as a result.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:13PM
18 of 30 suspects so far are refugees. The rest will be their handlers, no doubt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:34AM
>>There is no evidence that this gang of Muslim rapists were refugees
Oh, so they've been rooted in Germany for a long time then. I feel so much better.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:30PM
context that I can't stomach [...] more objective opinion
topkek
the truth hurts, deal with it
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @06:38PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:43PM
sounds like you're a very open minded person who dares to challenge his preconceived notions, and not someone who deliberately refuses information in fear that it might change their opinion
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @07:14PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:23PM
good for you lad, enjoy it while you still can.
"When a military boot crashes his... then he will understand."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:42PM
If this SN article provides a more objective opinion, then I call moral panic [wikipedia.org].
Racist generalisations? Media speculation? Hyperbolic headlines? Conspiracy theories? Police "coverups"? Sounds to me like it hits all the markers for more stranger-danger bullshit.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday January 08 2016, @05:10PM
... but I've certainly read a lot of stories like this, particularly recently about the problems in Cologne on NYE. CNN just reported that the police chief was sacked.
However, over on Slashdot, I'm told that I'm ridiculous for bringing this up, and that this stuff isn't really happening at all over there and that it's all made up by American media.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @05:53PM
The police chief got in some hot waters because she suggested that women 'could avoid being raped by keeping people at an arms-length away from them'. Basically the equivalent of saying "you got raped because of the way you dress". BTW, I don't think the way anyone dresses is ever an excuse for rape, assault or any violation of that person. No-one asks to be raped and 'no' should be universally understood as 'stop whatever the fuck you are doing, I do not consent'.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Grishnakh on Friday January 08 2016, @05:58PM
No, that was the city's mayor who said that. The police chief is a male and was criticized for inadequate police being assigned there, and has been forced out (in an "early retirement"). The dumb mayor is still there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:18PM
And the dumb Chancellor is still there.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by kadal on Friday January 08 2016, @05:15PM
Der Spiegel has a couple of articles in English:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cologne-attacks-on-new-years-produced-chaos-say-police-a-1070894.html [spiegel.de]
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cologne-shocked-by-sexual-assaults-on-new-years-eve-a-1070583.html [spiegel.de]
It's quite nauseating really. It looks like a planned operation. Don't know what to make of it.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by M. Baranczak on Friday January 08 2016, @05:45PM
Well, here's one way to look at it.
The refugees are a problem for Europe, but they're a much bigger problem for ISIS (or whatever the fuck we're calling them this week). Their ambition is to build an actual, functioning country; it's really hard to do that when all the regular civilians have ran away, and all you have left is heavily armed young men. So they're staging operations in Europe designed to provoke hostility to Muslims (so far, it's working).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:04PM
This "z0mg ISIS wants you to hate muslims!" conspiracy theory is getting old. It's all staged! Just like the moon landing!!1
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @06:18PM
This "z0mg ISIS wants you to hate muslims!" conspiracy theory is getting old.
When one of the key architects of ISIS actually goes on record saying as much it tends to no longer be a conspiracy theory.
Al-Suri, Kepel said, had a vision: “a proliferation of blind attacks that will provoke lynchings of Muslims, attacks on mosques, harassment of women in veils, and create hotspots of war that will put fire and sword to Europe, seen as the soft underbelly of the West."
Hating Muslims plays right into the Islamic State’s hands [washingtonpost.com]
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Friday January 08 2016, @08:00PM
Maybe a few muslim nuts can get the whole country mad at all muslims then recruiting becomes easier. Or if a few muslim nuts blow something up then it is easier to get away with in a country where the natives all think the muslims look the same. Or if you need more of your nuts in a country get them in the stream of refugees going in.
There are many ways to get right through defenses and many ways to cripple a target from the inside. These tricks are not new and are not used by good people. So "provoking lynchings" and such is not surprising.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday January 08 2016, @09:11PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:47AM
Uhhh, that doesn't make much sense. The Muslim population observes their very strict laws because - ENFORCERS! In most Muslim countries, there are morality police watching all the time. If/when the population escapes those sharia police, and they aren't being monitored all the time, they tend to act differently.
Yes, those intoxicated men are Muslim.
Google for stories about Saudi princes being investigated for drunkeness, sexual assault, and other immoral conduct.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 11 2016, @02:01AM
If it was for the purpose of jihad, then they probably would.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:29PM
This is all about softening up nations for subservience.
Zoom out for the bigger picture: I don't like Islam, but even before all this started, the wider agenda in Syria / Iraq was known - to reduce the population density there substantially and remove organized government there. This is intended to create the necesary vacuum to easily instate US/allies controlled regimes that can govern for their handlers/financiers without difficulty. The strategy is dual, with an aim to weaken and ultimately destroy European culture/civilization in order to make it easier to govern. That is, if Europeans lose their cultural identity and become a mish mash of races and disconnected cultures, they will be unable to act in unison and won't pose meaningful resistance and thereby be easier to govern for matters that aren't in their interest - such as changes that remove their sovereignty and freedom.
(Score: 1) by D2 on Saturday January 09 2016, @03:44AM
Is this your opinion? I need to know before I suggest your sizing up your tinfoil hat...
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday January 08 2016, @06:08PM
So they're staging operations in Europe designed to provoke hostility to Muslims (so far, it's working).
Exactly! Recall the fake Syrian passport found after the Paris shootings: Syrian Passport by Stadium Stolen or Fake, A.F.P. Reports [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:51AM
And, you seem to presume that the French police forged that passport?
I presume that the passport was forged in Syria, or Iraq, or maybe Turkey. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/how-easy-is-it-to-buy-fake-syrian-passport [theguardian.com] The demand for passports, fake or otherwise, exists in the mideast, not in France, or Belgium, or Germany, or wherever. People in the mideast want to get the hell out, no one wants to get in.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Friday January 08 2016, @06:41PM
Well, in the short term, it means they're seizing and selling the former possessions of the refugees, which helps them seem like a stable state, economically. Now, in 3 years when there are no doctors, engineers, lawyers, plumbers, builders, or farmers and they need that to retain a basic semblance of structure(this is presuming they're not wiped out entirely), it will be the most failed state you've ever seen with no value to anyone, and no money to support their "caliphate".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:47PM
Ready for invasion :)
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday January 08 2016, @10:50PM
While that is a consistent story, it would be better if there were some good evidence that it was true. It *MAY* be, but I know of know proof. It's also possible that this is considered acceptable behavoir where they came from, but I know of no proof. It's also possible that this is behavior evolved a result of travelling through lawless areas, but I know of no proof. And I could come up with other consistent stories, including that this is a fabricated story.
It is definitely true that many muslim countries give considerably fewer rights to women, and expect considerably more restricted behavior. It's also true that cultures where many men are denied access to women tend to evolve customs where those deny use violence to get access. So it's not unbelievable that this is an actual report of a series of actual events, and that the perpetrtors are accurately characterized.
I don't think it's reasonable to be certain given what is known, but this doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered reasonably probable.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday January 14 2016, @09:09AM
It wasn't only in Germany:
Swedish Police Accused Of Muslim Rape Cover Up
http://www.vdare.com/posts/not-just-germany-swedish-police-accused-of-muslim-rape-cover-up [vdare.com]
The Arabic gang-rape phenomenon has now spread to Europe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html [dailymail.co.uk]
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by GungnirSniper on Friday January 08 2016, @05:43PM
This is a direct result of the government putting business interests and the constant need of growth above the safety and peace of the populace. In every case where nations are taking in culturally-different outsiders, there is strife. Yet so long as the politicians can show a healthy economy, the long-term damage they are inflicting on their own people has been getting a pass. This dynamic is now changing, and the old rulebook of immigration is going to be thrown out. The right wing is going to rise again, strongly, and the left will only have themselves to blame.
This is true in the UK, where Pakistani "Asians" are grooming young white girls with drinks and drugs to be raped.
This is true in Sweden, where the majority of rapes are committed by an imported minority.
This is true in Germany, where the women-are-barely-people mindset of these economic migrants allows atrocities like this grope-robbery.
This isn't all that true in the US. The majority of migrants are from Latin American, from Christian countries where women are relatively respected compared to the Islamic world. So once again, the problem is a 7th century death cult that must be expelled from the European continent.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Username on Friday January 08 2016, @06:19PM
This isn't all that true in the US. The majority of migrants are from Latin American, from Christian countries where women are relatively respected compared to the Islamic world.
Not women, but all life in general isn’t respected from latin gangs. If you’re shot to death in a robbery, it’s not a sin, it’s a sacrifice to Santa Muerte. Their version of christianity doesn’t hold them back.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Alfred on Friday January 08 2016, @07:34PM
Compare a race to its gang subset. For example: Latinos in general are good people with good morals across a range of incomes. The gang members are a small minority with some bastardized Christianity.
There are some non-race aligned groups this doesn't hold for. There are some groups that part of there culture is that women are second class citizens or property. Or anyone outside their group is available for taking advantage of.
When a group is acting barbaric then call them out as such. You will likely be called racist though.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:53PM
True enough, but the solution for the US is to keep it for americans, and let latinos have their countries to themselves. Close the borders but at the same time, stop the interference. Let each sweep in front of its own door. If country A wants to influence country B, let this be on terms of trade (ie: you stop torturing dissidents and we will buy your widgets).
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:33PM
Wish I had mod points, since this insightful comment is being marked 'troll' because it's an inconvenient truth. Sad how some people can't tell the difference between someone trolling and someone saying something that they don't want to hear.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @07:42PM
In every case where nations are taking in culturally-different outsiders, there is strife. Yet so long as the politicians can show a healthy economy, the long-term damage they are inflicting on their own people has been getting a pass
Their own people? Humanity is my people.
As for strife, that can only vanish if people learn to stop trying to get their way at the expense of others. I'm not sure how large of a scale that can ever happen, and since government is the institutionalized mechanism whereby people get their way at the expense of others, I know government can never play a part in it.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @07:42PM
While I agree that Middle Eastern and African culture (which is heavily entwined with Islam) is a problem, I don't see that culture currently in Malaysia or Indonesia. Nor do I see it much in the west bank either to be honest, and Singapore, which is 15% Islam, is a great example of religions getting along. On the other people in places like Egypt have a terrible attitude to women -- and nobody has ever taught them better.
It does seem that Islamic countries have that feel of Christian countries of the past, where the world suffered the crusades, inquisition, etc, and it's a problem. Given time I have no doubt it will pass, the problem is there's a lot of suffering in the way. And while the typical peasant farmer in England (who is a Christian because that's what you do is 13th century peasentville) in the middle ages was not responsible for the violent march of Christianity across the globe, and the typical peasant farmer (who is a Muslim for the same reason) is equally not responsible, it doesn't mean we have to like it, nor not do anything about it.
But remember it's ISIS that want the war between Islam and the world, they think that people's loyalties to concepts you and I may value (freedom, peace, beer) is less than that of their loyalties to a bunch of people using a magical sky fairy to ensure follower. They may be right -- are American Catholics more loyal to the pope or to the president? If people see themselves being attacked as a group, they'll respond as a group. Doesn't matter if you're innocent, if a country (or even a group) is out to kill all Muslims on a global scale, and you're a Muslim, you're going to be on the side of ISIS -- you can't stay neutral in a war where one side will attack you for something you are, and the other side will attack you for not joining them.
The only way I see to deal with the threat of this Islamic culture is to teach it out of them. This means banning things like "religious schools" and stopping pandering to the "religious rights" idiots on both the left and the right, it means ensuring that immigrant populations do mix, and the best way to do that is give them hope for the future.
The youth of the world, no matter what their culture or religion, have a high proportion feeling isolated. Some turn to drink, some turn to petty crime, some vegetate in front of reality tv, some write shouty posts on internet forums, and some turn to violence.
Give people something to live for and they aren't going to go round blowing themselves up.
I know plenty of "Muslims" who live in Islamic countries and in the UK. They drink beer, watch sports, smoke (far too much), and observe the big religious parties like Eid in Islamic countries (just as I - an atheist I guess - observe the cultural event known as Christmas, and indeed observed eid this year as I was working with some Muslims at the time, and they brought in a great selection of food). There's no reason why integration can't happen, however whenever you introduce a lot of immigrants into a small area over a short period of time you get strife, look at Irish immigration in NY in the 1800s. The Irish settlers integrated, and brought a lot of value to the US, but there was violence before that happened.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday January 08 2016, @08:07PM
Depends on whether you're Shiite, Sunni or Alevi. Muslim != Muslim. If you're following the "wrong" Islam, ISIS will also fight against you. No way you'll take the side of someone wanting to kill you.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @08:29PM
Ahh yes, I suspect that they will put aside their differences to tackle the "common enemy", just like the US and USSR fought together to fight Hitler.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:09AM
And, you fail to understand the concept of "enemy of mine enemy". Arabs/Muslims will indeed side with an enemy, to defeat a common enemy. That is what middle eastern politics is all about. Pacts and alliances are fluid, always shifting. This year, some Sunnis and Shiites are shooting at each other, and the following year they are allied to kill Kurds, and the following year they are allied to kill Christians, then the following year, they are back to shooting at each other.
This article should help to muddy the waters, and to confuse you more - http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/americas-strategy-failing-world-complex-use-enemy-enemy-friend-strategy.html [washingtonsblog.com] As confusing as it can be, it helps to understand that enemy of mine enemy /= freind.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @10:01PM
Definitely - SOMEONE wants a war between White Europe and Islam. I choose those words deliberately. But it's not Muslims or white Europeans that want this war.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:01AM
"Given time I have no doubt it will pass,"
And, how much time are you willing to give them? I have said similar things. Christianity seems to have outgrown it's worst excesses, true, but it took hundreds of years. Are you willing to allow Islam hundreds of years of excess, while they are moving into your neighborhood? Are you willing to allow Muslim men to rape your daughters and grand daughters for the next 200, 500, or 1000 years?
Islam is a problem. Deal with it, or not. Islam is willing to deal with you instead.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:31AM
None. I want the problem to be sorted. Genocide isn't the answer though, especially when 99% are not a problem. So what is the answer?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:50AM
Simply deny them entry into civilized nations. And, stay out of their nations. Stop demonizing xenophobia - it serves a societal need. There are people - some of them Soylentils - who hate nationalists, protectionists, xenophobes more than they hate the criminal elemnt of the invading population.
If you happen to be ethnic German, then Germany is YOUR COUNTRY, not Islam's for the taking.
If you happen to be ethnic Norwegian, then Norway is YOUR country, not Islam's for the taking.
If you happen to be Greek, then Turkey has no legitimate claim to your country, despite the fact that Turkey conquered and ruled over Greece for a few centuries.
I'm tired of clueless fools singing the praises of foreign invaders who want to come into the wealthier nations of the world, and turn those nations into third world hell holes.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:22AM
I'm tired of clueless fools singing the praises of foreign invaders who want to come into the wealthier nations of the world, and turn those nations into third world hell holes.
Given that my mother's parents were "foreign invaders" who came to a wealthier country (the U.S.), and turned their chosen home (Chicago) into a better place via hard work, good parenting and a strong family ethic despite the xenophobia of many, I take serious issue with your characterization.
Had you been around back in the 19-teens and 20s, I'm sure you would have decried them as religious zealots bent on destroying America.
And I'm sure you would have been doubly angry about my father who came from a divided, strife and violence torn land in the early 1960s and never became a citizen. Despite the fact that he prospered and raised four children and worked in and then ran a successful business in his chosen field for almost forty years, he must have been a terrorist, otherwise he would have embraced U.S. citizenship, right?
Not everyone is like you. Nor are all those folks evil and bent on the destruction of society. In fact, there are only a very small number of people who wish to destroy our civilization. And those folks come from every society and culture -- including the "Western" nations.
IMHO, your xenophobia and racism are pretty disgusting, Runaway. I feel pity for you that you're so small-minded and afraid of those that are different from you.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:45AM
I have my own immigrant ancestors. Your granny and my granny integrated into the United States. Today's invaders aren't interested in integrating.
I don't understand why you would project your own ancestry, and the mindsets of your own grandparents, onto today's invaders. Do you not understand that there are "good people" and "evil people"? Presuming that your immigrant ancestors were European, would it not be reasonable to assume that your grandparents were like those famed Europeans, Marx, Lenin, and Stalin?
We are witnessing a clash of civilizations today. In comparison, all of the populations of Europe are a homogenous population.
Your dad didn't integrate? Well - I have less respect for him than I would have if he had become a citizen. Did he pay taxes, at least?
But, it pleases me that I disgust liberals. I would be dissappointed if I did not. Liberals certainly disgust me. Neocons run a close second on the disgusting scale. Hang around, if the Republicans really work at it, they could surpass the Democrats on the disgusting scale.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Saturday January 09 2016, @03:17AM
I don't understand why you would project your own ancestry, and the mindsets of your own grandparents, onto today's invaders. Do you not understand that there are "good people" and "evil people"? Presuming that your immigrant ancestors were European, would it not be reasonable to assume that your grandparents were like those famed Europeans, Marx, Lenin, and Stalin?
You don't understand because your head is so far up the ass of your xenophobic, narrow-minded Abrahamic bullshit worldview, that you can't find your ass with both hands and a mirror.
There are decent people (the vast majority, in fact) of every ethnicity and socio-economic group. There are also violent, sociopathic scumbags of every stripe too -- including yours.
Where my ancestors came from is irrelevant. Their actions are what are important, not their origins. Conflating the two is myopic at best, and viciously bigoted at worst.
Your dad didn't integrate? Well - I have less respect for him than I would have if he had become a citizen. Did he pay taxes, at least?
Your "respect" is irrelevant to me, and would be less so for my father (were he still alive). What's more, I imagine he paid more in taxes (corporate and personal) each year than you earned during a similar time period.
But, it pleases me that I disgust liberals. I would be dissappointed if I did not. Liberals certainly disgust me.
If the belief that people should be judged based on what they do, rather than where they come from, makes me a "liberal" then I'm happy to have that moniker, and even happier to disgust a closed-minded bigot like yourself.
I refuse to judge arbitrary groups en masse. I judge individuals based on their behavior. In my mind, each individual makes their own moral and ethical choices. Painting all members of a group with the same, broad brush is an intellectually bankrupt idea, more suited to authoritarians and hate-filled populists than civilized people.
Demonizing minority groups has been the tactic of choice for those who wish to accumulate and consolidate power since time immemorial. Fortunately, the U.S. Constitution makes an attempt (which is being thwarted by bigots like you) to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority [wikipedia.org].
So, by being a xenophobic bigot, you're claiming that you're opposed to one of the basic tenets of the Republic of the United States. How does it feel to be a traitor to your country?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @03:29AM
(sarcasm font) I'm certainly happy that you are a less judgemental person than I am. (end sarcasm font)
BTW - please cite that basic tenet of the Republic which I am opposing. Maybe you refer to that tired poem, "Send me your tired, your hungry, your poor". That is NOT a tenet of the Republic, it's just a stupid poem, inscribed on a plaque, affixed to a statue donated to us by some crazy French people. There is nothing in the constitution that can be interpreted as welcoming invading hordes from a hostile culture or civilization.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday January 09 2016, @03:53AM
please cite that basic tenet of the Republic which I am opposing.
My comment has zero to do with Emma Lazarus' poem. Rather, it has to do with the individual rights ensconced in the U.S. Constitution and the amendmens thereto. James Madison expounds on this in the Federalist Papers (#51) [billofrightsinstitute.org]:
This is discussed, in great detail, in a wide variety of forums. Here are a few from the first page of a google search [google.com]:
http://www.aclunv.org/blog/preventing-tyranny-majority-original-plan [aclunv.org]
http://www.garlikov.com/philosophy/majorityrule.htm [garlikov.com]
http://www.rense.com/general64/madi.htm [rense.com]
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/the-federalist-papers/federalist-papers-no-51/ [billofrightsinstitute.org]
There is nothing in the constitution that can be interpreted as welcoming invading hordes from a hostile culture or civilization.
True enough. However, that's not what we're talking about here. Immigration is not invasion, except to xenophobes, religious nutjobs and bigots. All of those labels, IMHO, apply to you.
tl;dr: You're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:53PM
Outsiders who want to come in are not "part of society". They are outsiders who wish to gain entry into your society. The constitution wasn't written for those outsiders. In view of the fact that MOST Americans aren't welcoming these people into our midst, yes, they are invaders, not immigrants.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Friday January 08 2016, @08:55PM
This isn't all that true in the US. The majority of migrants are from Latin American, from Christian countries where women are relatively respected compared to the Islamic world.
We don't have that problem, but there is an almost equally big problem with immigrants from Latin America/Mexico. Pretty much everything South of the Border is socialist. Might want look into why U.S. education and media never want to mention the Mexican Revolution. Why do think Democrats are so eager to import unlimited quantities of them? Promise ya if they were followers of Adam Smith they would have built a wall long ago. And of course we are also hellbent on importing a few million followers of the 7th Century death cult so we get both.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:22AM
This isn't all that true in the US. The majority of migrants are from Latin American, from Christian countries where women are relatively respected compared to the Islamic world. So once again, the problem is a 7th century death cult that must be expelled from the European continent.
The U.S. Department of Justice [bjs.gov] disagrees [PDF] [bjs.gov] with you.
More info (it took less than ten seconds for a simple google search [google.com]) can be found here [fbi.gov].
Women are abused and exploited just about everywhere in the world, including the U.S. Enough with the holier-than-thou bullshit, please.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @05:48PM
The clear implication, more often implied than stated is that the national leaders who went public in their pledges to accept refugees from the middle east war zones as well as northern Africa are leaning on main stream news outlets to suppress news reports of these rapes and sexual assaults. This suppression, if it exists, also appears to extend to the US press.
That's some pretty advanced conspiracy you've got going there... Do you really attribute that much competence to those who are "leaning on main stream news outlets to suppress news reports"? I mean, that's quite an elaborate scheme they've got going there. If they are that competent, countries wouldn't be in the shape they are currently in because they'd be governed by people who can actually get shit done!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:05PM
These 'news' outlets should be seen for what they really are: advertising peddlers. They will tailor their message to their audience in order to not drive it away and make them 'consume' more advertising.
If your audience doesn't want to hear about X but does want to hear about Y, then you don't need to be leaned upon by anyone for you to twist yourself into reporting about Y and not about X. It's a form of self-censorship.
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Friday January 08 2016, @07:06PM
Nevertheless, why did the Internet and foreign media report the grope-robbery days before the German press picked it up? If there is a conspiracy it is the self-censorship of these sorts of events by leftists in the media who simply wish these events, contrary to their worldview, did not happen.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:20PM
Maybe because "the internet" "reports" 99.9% BS. You want the German press to pick up and run with every POS story as soon as it hears it?
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @09:05PM
Even abovetopsecret.com - hang out of the paranoid end of the worlders - didn't seem to have anything on it until Jan 4th, when the police issued a press conference, the local media covered it, and it swiftly went worldwide. What blogs were covering it before Jan 4th?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:43PM
There are much faster sources of news for these things.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @09:53PM
Never wrong for long?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @10:24PM
January 3 - " rel="url2html-25876">http://pamelageller.com/2016/01/large-muslim-mobs-massive-sexual-harassment-on-new-years-eve-in-germany.html/
January 2 - " rel="url2html-25876">http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1b0_1451750821
January 2 - " rel="url2html-25876">http://www.ksta.de/koeln/-sexuelle-belaestigungen-sote-in-der-silvesternacht-,15187530,33047730.html?piano_d=1
I think there were already reports on January 1 but I only found out on Jan 2.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:27AM
So you've linked to the fact "a daily newspaper published in Cologne, Germany, and has the largest circulation in the Cologne/Bonn Metropolitan Region" covered the story is a cover up?
However the racist thugs over at Breitbart [breitbart.com] didn't get around to spewing their hatred until Jan 4th, same time the rest of the media woke up.
I see no evidence of a media coverup. I see a lot of eviedence on people blaming the recent influx of migrants over the summer despite the evidence seeming to show it wasn't them.
* The majority of people committing these crimes are muslim
* The VAST majority of muslim immigrants do not commit these crimes
Perhaps we should ban catholic priests, because
* the majority of boys being raped are by catholic priests
* The VAST majority of catholic priests do not rape boys
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:14AM
Perhaps we should ban catholic priests, because
* the majority of boys being raped are by catholic priests
* The VAST majority of catholic priests do not rape boys
* The VAST majority of rapist priests were protected by the CAtholic church for hundreds of years before legal authorities finally put enough pressure on the church to stop protecting them.
We see the same thing in our police forces today - bad cops are protected by their "brothers".
And, we see the same thing in Islam - although a Muslim might condemn the conduct of another Muslim, he will close ranks with, and protect his "brothers".
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:29AM
That closing ranks is a problem, and it's more of a problem in the police and the church than in the muslim community (where people are reporting their children to the authorities). However it doesn't mean that we should ban police officers (the majority of whom are not guilty of closing ranks), or priests (who likewise as a wholedon't cover up)
If 1 in 10,000 commit the crime, and 100 people know about each crime and cover it up, that's still 99% of the population who are perfectly innocent.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:53AM
I think you underestimate the problem in every population - police, Catholic, Islam, neighborhood gangs, or whatever. All populations will close ranks and protect their own against outsiders. It is normal human behaviour, and you can witness it in your own neighborhood. Siblings may fight among themselves, but they will protect each other from outsiders.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @04:34AM
It's understandable that the media and police "cover up" this event because it's embarrassing and the facts as they occurred are quite inflammatory, especially given recent world events. So I don't blame them for it, but both police and media ADMIT they delayed releasing the true extent of the event for exactly those reasons - the police do not want more trouble and the media don't want to be blamed for same if it eventuates. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just the usual mediocre standard that abounds. All news services routinely spin stories way out of proportion or bury them, depending where the money is coming from. Yes the news of the event was available full 2 days before most people in the US woke up to the fact, but the tinfoil mob did a good service by blowing this one up for all to see, because clearly the intention was to bury the story, and the distorting effect that mass migrations have on society needs to be discussed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:40PM
It's not governments that lean on media. It's not even media that leans on governments. Neither are particularly good at their job, evidenced by the fact that social and independent media is running rings around them.
It's corporations/businessmen (not all, just some) that are leaning so heavily on (and owning) government and mainstream media (including government owned) that public discourse is practically entirely controlled by them. This may appear as speculation but if you have actually worked in either of these spheres of life you will have seen it for yourself. If you happen to work in these fields, do a bit of background research on your colleagues and you'll see who the shills are.
And another thing. Stop branding people with "conspiracy" and other taboos, it straight away discredits anything you have to say.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 09 2016, @05:32AM
It's not governments that lean on media.
Actually governments have a long history of leaning hard on media. Given this wide divergence from reality, there's not much point to anything else you had to say.
Even if we were in a world of corporations, we would still have that the largest and most lucrative corporations would be the large governments of the world. They have the vast, captive revenue streams, the power to create rent seeking on a whim, monopoly on force, etc.
Once again, I see profound ignorance of what power is. It's not money, though even if it were, governments would be powerful just on that basis alone!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @05:50PM
The immigrant shelters population in Munich is 80% male.
Hmmm, well, testosterone be flowing... maybe they need some companionship? How about some comfort-women [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:17PM
They're Arabs. Goats will suffice.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:27PM
I'm sure you pronounce that "A-rabs". Maybe you live somewhere in the apalachians? Have you stopped hitting your wife yet? How about your sister? Have you stopped fucking her yet?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @05:56PM
Are any Soylentils living in the EU near refugee centers seeing these problems? Is it being reported? Is it being repressed? Or is the whole thing a made up issue by biased articles in fringe news sites?
Or is it the sort of thing where proportionally the incidents are very few in number, but people looking to create a clear and easy to identify enemy would use those reports to justify not helping people that truly need it. Or, in simpler terms: Are reports being withheld because we're all too stupid to look at them rationally.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @06:02PM
BREAKING NEWS
99.99% of refugees do not commit sexual assaults
BREAKING NEWS
99.999% of refugees do not commit terror attacks
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:15PM
BREAKING NEWS
Every rape committed by an immigrant is one that could have been prevented by closed borders
BREAKING NEWS
All [wikipedia.org]
major British sex scandals [wikipedia.org]
in recent history [wikipedia.org]
have involved [wikipedia.org]
men from Pakistani, Eritrean, [wikipedia.org]
Somali, Kurdish [wikipedia.org]
or Romani heritage [wikipedia.org]
most of them Muslim [wikipedia.org]
BREAKING NEWS
Fathers who tried to rescue their daughters from being raped were arrested [rotherham.gov.uk]
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:03PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:12PM
Nice ad-hominem and non-sequitur bro, but I'd rather have an actual argument instead.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:27PM
The Rochdale sex gang scandal convicted 8 men of Pakistani descent. There were nearly a million Pakistanis in England when that happened. Eight out of a million people commit a crime, and you want to throw them all out. Do you have a better fitting word than 'xenophobia' for that, bro?
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:30PM
"I want to be able to ad-hominem you more accurately, register an account because I care more about who you are than what you have to say." -- Tork, 2016
Also I can't seem to remember ever saying I wanted to 'throw them all out', do you have a citation for that? It can be any Anonymous Coward that is a parent to your comment. Protip: 'not letting them in' is not the same as 'throwing them out'.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:41PM
"I want to be able to ad-hominem you more accurately, register an account because I care more about who you are than what you have to say." -- Tork, 2016
He swings... and it's another miss!
Protip: 'not letting them in' is not the same as 'throwing them out'.
You said the borders should have been closed to prevent the crimes from taking place. Big oops on your part, there.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @08:37PM
is NOT the same as:
I would expect you to realize the difference between refusing admittance and ejecting.
-- Signed
different AC
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @08:50PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @04:12AM
"Not all Germans voted for Hitler. Why are we going to war with them!!?"
--Grandpa Tork, 1938
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 11 2016, @08:38PM
Different AC here.
Pot, meet Kettle.
You are busy distracting from the original message, you know the one with all of the links to evidence that you refuse to peruse.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @08:00PM
Every rape committed by an immigrant is one that could have been prevented by closed borders. Also I eat boogers.
Also you seem to have lost your will to actually have a debate here. Feel free to join back in some time.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @08:06PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @09:53PM
I believe he's saying
"Had the borders been closed in 2013, and that closure was successful, any crimes caused by a refugee that has immigrated since 2013 would not have occurred"
And he's right. It's a meaningless statement, but there you go.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @10:12PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:31AM
Look at his statement. It's a truism
Every rape committed by an immigrant is one that could have been prevented by closed borders.
Well yes, if you never had any immigrants they would never commit crime. If Germany hadn't allowed a single person to cross it's borders since 1945, only Germans would be committing crimes in Germany.
The following statement is equally valid. And equally useful.
Every rape committed by someone called Dave is one that could have been prevented by banning people called Dave.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:50PM
Some opinions are safer said without a big target sign stuck on your ass.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:03AM
Well, you did it for guns, so why not people too?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:45AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @03:40AM
Of course they have uses outside of killing human beings. That is why so few as a percentage are used as tools of murder.
The analogy is apt.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @08:14PM
> Nice ad-hominem and non-sequitur bro,
Those two words, you keep using them, I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
(Score: 2) by Post-Nihilist on Friday January 08 2016, @09:17PM
You have a bad analogy because nicotine really reduces the risk of developing Alzheimer's, even when you account for the shorter longevity caused by its usual route of administration. There are drugs in the pipeline that target the nicotinic acetylcholine alpha 7 receptor to prevent Alzheimer or alleviate its symptoms, look at a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTS-21">GTS-21/a> for an example.
On xenophobia. I accept migrants as long as they either stay in clearly delimited ghettos or that they adapt themselves to the dominant local culture of my place and start to drink alcohol and eat pork. I do not trust people who don't drink unless they do so because they were alcoholics.
Be like us, be different, be a nihilist!!!
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @10:09PM
Ah the perks of ignorance. Imagine the alternative for a second and you might see: If Turkey, a NATO member and part of the EU (incredibly), did not fund ISIS, there would not be a refugee crisis in Europe and the relatively tiny number of arabs/muslims in Europe that were already there would continue to blend and become part of the social fabric without conflict. As it is, because of liberals in Europe, Turkey is in the EU and ISIS is flushing the middle east of civilians who are turning up by the millions in Europe. Indeed, xenophobia is adaptive in this situation. As things progress we can expect civil war in parts of Europe soon. Thanks to our liberalist, internationalist traitor leaders.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 11 2016, @02:21AM
No, Turkey is not part of the EU. I believe they want to be (or at least did want to be) a member, but they haven't been made a member of the EU.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @09:03PM
BREAKING NEWS
Every person killed by a bullet is one that could have been prevented if guns were banned
BREAKING NEWS
All [wikipedia.org]
these [wikipedia.org]
major [wikipedia.org]
british [wikipedia.org]
terror [wikipedia.org]
attacks [wikipedia.org]
were [wikipedia.org]
caused [wikipedia.org]
by [wikipedia.org]
Irish [wikipedia.org]
people [wikipedia.org]
However I don't recall anyone saying "stop the Irish from crossing the sea" because we understood it was a minority of Ireland that wanted to kill people (and a minority of the US that funded them)
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 08 2016, @06:20PM
Hang on.
http://www.rrsonline.org/?page_id=944 [rrsonline.org]
That's just rapes in the U.S. I get that you want to defend migrants but let's not use impossible numbers.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:24PM
I get that you want to defend migrants
I find it very telling that after such events there are many people who prioritize defending the migrants over protecting women. How many raped women is your immigration policy worth?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:29PM
72
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 08 2016, @06:42PM
I find it very telling that you would latch on to that statement like a shark. I didn't even say that I support or oppose migrants, and no, my statement doesn't imply one or the other.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:46PM
I was referring to Tork, m80.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:49PM
Whoops, meant Isostatic, who you were replying to. I scrolled too far.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 08 2016, @06:56PM
You've got to love made-up statistics. Very easy to abuse though.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @07:38PM
* Given that the vast majority of rape is by someone the victim knows
* And that migrants in the west (who are lets face it looking for work) are predominantly men
I'd imagine that the percentage of rapes by migrants is actually lower that the percentage of rapes by settled people.
However the point is a headline stating
"100 refugees commit sexual assaults"
Is the same as
"999900 refugees do not commit sexual assaults"
The first sells papers, and causes outrage, and the problem is the outrage is directed at the 999,900 innocent people as well as the 100 that should have their balls chopped off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:38PM
Very few in number, perhaps, but very large in scale. And do not think that there's not suppression going on. The Rotherham child abuse scandal [wikipedia.org] (over 1400 children) was surpressed for over 14 years.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @06:59PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:01PM
A larger percentage than the native British population was.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:17PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:25PM
Not relevant, because I said so.
Great argument, you're a real master debater.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:29PM
Great argument, you're a real master debater.
Still waiting on that number that's stalling the debate. If I'm so wrong you've got nothing to fear by sharing it.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:33PM
That number? Oh, it's not relevant. You know why? Because I say so, that's why.
"Why aren't you conforming to my arbitrary argumentative framework that I set up just so you would fail?! Dammit!" -- Tork, 2016
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:52PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:40AM
Problems with the official statistics. The UK has been covering up immigrant crimes for the past 20 years and more, just as the cops and the media initially tried to hide the violence toward women on Cologne.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:11AM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:50AM
Neither. They hide it because it would embarrass the people in power to acknowledge that they were wrong. Just as the UK hides the true statistics on violent crime in general, they can't publicize immigrant crime, because it would demonstrate that their policies were failures.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:28PM
"I do not know what proportionality is. Math is hard, let's go shopping." -- Tork, 2016
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @07:33PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:38PM
I didn't know you were retarded, but I would like to thank you for informing me so I can disregard you in the future.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @08:28PM
How much of the Pakistani population in England were involved in this case?
Not many. The problem is that while the average pakistani in Rotheram is innocent, however the average member of these sex gang is a Pakistani Muslim. It did not help that the papers, rather than calling a spade a spade, called it a "gardening tool". By describing the perpetrators as "Asian" rather than "Pakistani" it gives fuel to the fire that there's a vast coverup, and the problem that it swung away from the racism with the Stephen Lawrence case and went the opposite way.
However it's not isolated to Rotherham, just look at the wikipedia page
Rochdale sex trafficking gang
Derby sex gang
Oxford sex gang
Bristol sex gang
Telford sex gang
Peterborough sex abuse case
Banbury sex gang
Aylesbury sex gang
It's a massive problem with a certain culture.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday January 08 2016, @08:36PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @10:16PM
Those are just the ones who got caught
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @10:21PM
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Friday January 08 2016, @10:23PM
The failure to report it because of "political correctness" is, however, a massive problem.
As is the bunch of scumbags that claim that celebrating Christmas would offend Muslims.
Muslims might, perhaps, complain about Easter, but they have no gripe against Christmas.
Pretending they do is deliberate shit stirring.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 5, Informative) by bradley13 on Friday January 08 2016, @06:08PM
Reputable sites have reported on this stuff, but not so much in English. The reports about the rape problems in Sweden are based on government reports and statistics. The summary in Wikipedia is brief but informative [wikipedia.org]. This is also the primary topic on the "talk" page that accompanies the article.
Regarding the latest incident in Köln: Around 1000 young men were wandering around in groups, surrounding women, groping them, and often robbing them while they were trying to defend themselves. Given that well over 100 women filed criminal complaints with the police, there is zero doubt that this happened. The news sites have even been entirely clear that the men involved were from "North Africa and the Middle East".
However, even the German news sites have suppressed the fact that a substantial proportion of these men were Syrian refugees recently admitted to the country. This goes entirely against the politics of welcoming the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Syrians. The information only emerged after someone got hold of an internal police report that had been suppressed. It just hit an English language site a few hours ago. [dw.com]
You know, if the immigrants want to be accepted, they could control their own people. Within the immigrant groups, make sure that someone keeps an eye on the trouble makers. This would help the rest of us believe that they actually care about integrating themselves into the West. But, no. Guess what happened instead? As a reaction to the attacks in Köln, "leading musmlims demand resignations" [www.welt.de], because it's all the fault of the police. And Lamya Kaddor, a Syrian scholar, states "the supposed ethnic or religious background of the attackers is not relevant" (article in German; those are my rough translations). Deny reality, deny responsibility, blame someone else. This is not how to win friends for the muslim community.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:27PM
The reports about the rape problems in Sweden are based on government reports and statistics.
Relevant. [gatestoneinstitute.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:47PM
One missing piece of the puzzle is that you don't know the long history of Islam. [youtube.com] This is continuation of a war that will never end until everyone is Muslim, called Jihad. They don't want to integrate with you, they want to replace you via Hijrah [frontpagemag.com]
The other missing piece of the puzzle is that Zionists and their puppets want to pit their enemies against each other: [pastebin.com] the Muslims vs Euopean peoples, and they are doing this via pushing the migrant narrative. Read those links from said Zionists, and see for yourself.
The media is owned by the same people pushing the pro-immigration narrative. That's why it was suppressed. Time to wake up and smell the roses.
If I tell you that rich elites own all the media and centralized banking and are manipulating society for their benefit alone, people agree. If I tell you who those people are, people call me a racist Nazi. Fuck it, the name calling has lost its power. The truth is evident in the facts and actions like you see today. The little leftist man who is duped by the Globalists / Multiculturalists into suicidal political plays won't be able to ignore reality for too much longer. The end game is the genocide of European peoples, and some of us will not go quietly into the night.
This is why Poland has become so right wing. This is why Golden Dawn is rising in Greece. Once you wake up and accept the facts of your world everything starts to make sense.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:26PM
As an atheist I am also interested in a war between Christians and Muslims.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday January 08 2016, @08:10PM
Not a good idea as conscription ignores religion. And taxes go up. And tons of other things that will directly affect your quality of life.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @08:27PM
If they can migrate to Europe, I can migrate out to Canada, Thailand, England, or somewhere else.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday January 08 2016, @08:52PM
War hasn't worked that way since pre-WWI.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by gnuman on Friday January 08 2016, @07:10PM
Regarding the latest incident in Köln: Around 1000 young men were wandering around in groups, surrounding women, groping them, and often robbing them while they were trying to defend themselves. Given that well over 100 women filed criminal complaints with the police, there is zero doubt that this happened. The news sites have even been entirely clear that the men involved were from "North Africa and the Middle East".
Maybe what is needed is some basic undercover police work. And then start deportations of people involved.
There is also different cultural norms here. Anyone coming over should get a pamphlet on how to behave per local customs. Yes, a lot of this behaviour can be eliminated through simple education. But for the real criminals and rapists, deportation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @08:43PM
Within the immigrant groups, make sure that someone keeps an eye on the trouble makers.
You know, that's actually what I find totally puzzling about the whole incident. In general 2 can't keep a secret, and here were talking about a thousand offenders? Even if you believe the very worst of immigrants, it's kind of hard to believe that this could have been planned, and nobody with a bit of sense (or a wife) heard of the plans and blew the whistle. But in fact it's similarly hard to believe this could have been essentially a spontaneous group thing, either.
I really don't get it. The police are to blame for desastrous communication the days after the incident, but I don't blame them for not being prepared for anything like this to happen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:58PM
Mass provocation only takes a few well trained and well paid stooges. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it works beautifully. Case in point.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:33PM
I will tell you the truth from my point of view. I will feel better when these refugees are gone.
I've been almost mugged twice in the last 6 months, I say almost because I flash them a large knife and they back away, (technically against the law here, but I claim I use it at work).
They don't respect the laws, or other people's property, there's next to no control over who is allowed in, and many aren't just coming to be safe.
They travel across multiple safe countries to reach Germany because it's a rich country, and as a refugee you are paid to sit on your ass for 3-4 years while your paperwork is processed.
Fireworks are allowed 1 day of the year, actually 1 night, and that's New Years Eve.
The refugees in my area have been setting them off all week, pointing them into apartment balconies,(there have been fires started), and on top of other's cars. (A big Taboo to Germans)
I don't see an end to this though. My wife and I wanted to raise our kids here, but we're currently looking to relocate away from this mess.
My opinion is I feel bad for these people, but I don't want Germany turning into some 2nd world shit hole.
Here's an english version of an issue that came about last summer.
http://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refugee-school-calls-for-uniform-modesty [thelocal.de]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @06:52PM
setting them off [...] on top of other's cars. (A big Taboo to Germans)
You say that as if it's normal for the French or Americans or whoever to light a fire on another person's car.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:14PM
Well, I was trying to emphasize the reason why the cars are being vandalized.
It's a known fact that Germans love their cars.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Friday January 08 2016, @07:40PM
Weirdly, the only place I've ever seen such number and size of fireworks thrown around like toys was one year when I was in Germany for New Year.
Literally, people (not just kids, but adults) pointing them at each other, throwing them around streets.
And, yes, putting them in the snow on top of my car and launching them from there. Even the German guy who was hosting us, until I kicked his arse for it.
Germany's fireworks laws are incredibly lax compared to, say, the UK anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:46AM
I was in Bonn, Germany for the 1994/1995 New Year, and I can corroborate that they were a bit wild with the fireworks. I can recall being on a bridge--Kennedybruecke, I think--for the roll over to the new year; a bunch of us American ex-pats were walking along the bridge and the fireworks were just crazy. It seemed that people on one side of the bridge were firing rockets at people on the other side of the bridge for fun and sport. Every few seconds a rocket would come whizzing just overhead from the other side of the bridge. It truly felt a bit like being in the middle of a pitched battle; you never knew when (or, from what direction) you might get hit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:46PM
You say that as if it's normal for the French or Americans or whoever to light a fire on another person's car.
Only if you like getting your ass beat...
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday January 08 2016, @07:46PM
Sounds to me like the problem is you have two enemies: immigrants who don't respect the law, and your government which also doesn't respect the law. They make it illegal for you to have a knife and defend yourself, they steal money in order to pay these people for 3-4 years as you say, they fail to prosecute those who commit crimes and prevent you from having another recourse for justice.
If all this stuff went away the immigrants that arrived would be much more law abiding.
We have very similar problems here, but it doesn't make me oppose immigration in general; it makes me oppose the law "makers" (law breakers).
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @06:33AM
Having a [combat, hunting] knife is perfectly legal; though drawing it and pointing it at random people is pretty frowned upon, as it is in general in civilized nations.
Frankly, the original poster sounds like a nutcase, with his carrying around a knife and all -- don't know whether it will help, but some advice: don't draw a knife in an already tense situation unless you're prepared to use it, and use it immediately; if you don't know much or anything about knife combat, use legally permitted pepperspray instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 10 2016, @01:57PM
OP here, when I was in the US I grew up in a little city called Baltimore, so I know whats what when 3-4 people stop what their doing, spread out and approach me.
Here's a hint if that ever happens to you, they're not likely going to ask you what time it is.
I carry a weapon to show people I'm willing to use it, and I only draw it when that criteria is met.
I am thankful I've never been forced to do anything more than that.
I am trained in hand to hand combat. Part of that training is being able to judge a situation and react accordingly.
Sometimes it only requires a display of willing to put up a fight.
The refugees often travel in groups, they are housed this way. They also have too much free time on their hands.
I can't find the article, and it's only in German, but there was a man robbed and beaten at the train platform by 3 of them last summer.
This was roughly 4 blocks from where I lived at the time and in the middle of the day.
The weapon I carry is a folding blade, but it is illegal here because I modified it to open with one hand.
(Score: 1) by cpghost on Saturday January 09 2016, @12:32AM
C'mon, are you really in Germany? Fireworks are being sold up to 5 days before New Year's Eve, usually starting December 27th, and there have always been youngsters and pranksters setting off some isolated firecrackers (not the big fireworks though) here and there as early as that, and as late as January 5th or so. It was always so, and that was already some 20-30 years ago. I can't imagine that's different in Niedersachsen... ;)
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 10 2016, @02:16PM
By Fireworks are allowed, I did not mean purchasing, I meant the lighting or setting off of them.
Of course they are being sold before then...
It's not just youngsters this year, and it's not just the small stuff either.
If you think it's permitted any other time other than Silvester, then by all means go up to your Polizeistation and set some off for them today.
Meine deutsche Frau denkt dass Sie es versuchen sollten.
Ja, ich lebe in Deutschland seit drei Jahren.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Username on Friday January 08 2016, @07:03PM
I like how the notion of rape culture that has been constantly pushed by the left against western men isn’t being applied to the protected class "muslim immigrants." Shouldn’t they be teaching muslims how not to rape women? You can’t go anywhere on an US campus without any kind of accusation of being a rapists just because you’re male. Now there are actual rapes by actual rapists promoted by their actual culture, and they’re going with, "stay at arms length," "don’t antagonize them," "respect their culture."
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:08PM
I'm pretty sure this comment raped me, but it's my fault for reading it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @07:17PM
because you never get an apology from an Arab because his culture offends you.
There are plenty of male doormats that love to apologize for everything to women.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday January 08 2016, @09:04PM
Probably because it goes without saying. Everybody knows the general culture in the middle east is horrendous, which makes it so much more amazing that so many people from the middle east have turned their back on that culture.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by an Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:26PM
This is precisely because a rape culture does not exist in any significant degree in the west outside of the prison system. Think back to the days where the Christian would-be lynch mobs would shriek about Satanism, complete with made up bullshit peddled as settled fact because some talking heads said so. But, of course in reality the culture was not Satanic, quite the opposite in fact at the time.
They want it to be true so their actions and beliefs make sense and are justifiable. And, in doing so, they use the harm, paranoia, and bad blood they generate themselves as "proof" it exists. It's circular reasoning and self fulfilling prophecy all in one nice tidy bundle.
In my opinion, it's the same sort of folks using the ideological framework du jour to justify their abhorrent behavior.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fritsd on Friday January 08 2016, @07:19PM
It's being reported in the main-stream media. It's headline news in Germany and the Netherlands and Sweden.
I was well shocked when I read about it, and I have family in Köln, so I've been reading up a bit. You too can practice your German today :-/ Hold a paper puke-bag ready.
I'm not terribly familiar with the German "news-scape" so I thought I'd read the Frankfurter Allgemeine first (reputable newspaper and Frankfurt is 200km from Köln). Der Spiegel is much more sensational, but they have a very good opinion page about it. (of course the commentards vary a bit in quality ...)
German:
This seems to be the latest news about the actual attack (excluding all the politicians falling over each other right now)
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/uebergriffe-in-koeln-in-der-silvesternacht-zwei-festnahmen-14003875.html [faz.net]
I can imagine they could only arrest 32, if it all happened at night during a new years eve of drunken fireworks-throwing chaos. The next line from that quote talks about some kind of jurisdiction issue that these are only arrests from people very close to the train station.
I found this next one, by the bemohawked Sascha Lobo, a reasonable commentary; that's personal of course..
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/koeln-silvester-mob-und-gegenmob-kolumne-a-1070724.html [spiegel.de]
Be sure to read as much of the comments as you can stomach. Some are really good.
You may call him "mealy-mouthed" but I think it's quite brave that he writes:
N.B. one commentard wrote that it wasn't normal fireworks. Didn't see any other references but that also points at a deliberate attack on fellow citizens. Haha what fun.
In general I'm not so impressed by der Spiegel but YMMV: http://www.spiegel.de/thema/uebergriffe_in_koeln/ [spiegel.de]
This writer Margarete Stokowski doesn't mince her words (WARNING probably NSFW/racist/sexist/painful to read/whatever)
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/margarete-stokowski-ueber-sexualisierte-gewalt-a-1070905.html [spiegel.de]
and I quote:
"Des Rudels Kern ist die Vorstellung vom wild gewordenen - wenn nicht schon immer wild gewesenen - Ausländer, der sich all das nimmt, was andere gern hätten: Frauen und iPhones."
with "Rudel" she means the Rudel of Neonazis not the Rudel of attackers. It's a bit confusing.
Dutch:
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/-politiechef-keulen-op-non-actief-gezet~a4220827/ [volkskrant.nl]
(I felt sick when I read about the note with the German-Arabic translation (don't remember where, maybe FAZ). And I felt cold when I saw the photo of the naked artist. Oh yeah that photo is probably NSFW, because nudity. She points at the important issue though: respect for women)
Swedish:
http://www.dn.se/stories/massovergreppen-i-koln/ [www.dn.se]
I'm not actually that interested in which of the authorities will fall on their sword now (apparently the police chief of Köln). But I'm worried, that, because of the Rule of Law, the Germans can only pass sentences for groping and stealing, and that probably carries only short jail sentences, and therefore it's too short to make an example of these men and kick them out of the asylum procedure and out of the country. As a consequence, this wound will fester.
The authorities were overwhelmed. That's bad of them, yes. But I wouldn't have wanted to be a police officer or mayor in such a situation. What the fuck are you supposed to do?
I don't think any nation has laws about "if you organize a group of men with the purpose to go somewhere to insult, HUMILIATE, grope, and rape women (and steal) then the sentence is X". Except possibly Kongo's Southern Kivu Province [wikipedia.org]....
This is organized mass humiliation of women, people. I don't remember anything like this in Europe during my lifetime (then again I grew up quite sheltered, and I'm a man).
Who does that kind of thing? Why? Has it happened before, in living memory? Maybe during the 2nd world war.. but why in Köln at New Years' eve 2015?
WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING?????
I seriously believe that this attack is worse, in the meaning of: more disruptive to society, than most terrorist bombing attacks. Because it doesn't state: "you are not safe if you're in city X", but it says: "you are not safe if you're a woman".
How many girls in Köln are going to get themselves totally wasted with beer during Karnaval in a few weeks? Their freedom to do that has been attacked.
And because it's not murder or rape (except in 2 cases), the punishments are going to be mild, if they can even find the bastards who did it, disguised by that throng of people. They're going to get away with it. And more than half of the arrested suspects are guests; asylum seekers. That's got to hurt, it will create rancour.
For the victims it's horrible whichever sick man does this. But for society as a whole, it's worse if a large number of organized people do it. Why would they stop now after the "success" of Köln?
But a society is unhealthy, if the underdogs resort to humiliating people they percieve as even more inferior than them (i.e, women). Guess what? Neonazis are also underdogs. Hmm I wonder what their reaction will be to these events..
That's what I believe, anyway, but I'm not a people person so I'm not very smart in these things. I sincerely hope Merkel can make the best of this situation.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Friday January 08 2016, @07:43PM
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Friday January 08 2016, @08:12PM
if it all happened at night during a new years eve of drunken fireworks-throwing chaos
To many, the focus of attention only happened after the New Year's Eve incident.
However, as some of the links lead to stories that were appearing long before New Years, and they weren't about groping, but rather an alarming rise in rape by immigrants.
(If you doubt this, use a google date range search for Feb 1 thru Dec 1 of 2015.)
The focus on the groping incidents is, in itself, a not-too-subtle form of minimizing the problem, dismissing the actual rapes and making it a deplorable, but understandable case of those frisky arab boys just being boys on new years eve, wink wink nod nod.
Its a disgusting way to paper over the facts, while seeming to report them, but only after some huge number (too big to ignore) of women reported incidents to police on the same night.
And because it's not murder or rape (except in 2 cases), the punishments are going to be mild,
....But I see that you have fallen for it. Perhaps reading reports from elsewhere around the EU will disabuse you of this notion?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Friday January 08 2016, @10:35PM
I didn't mean to dismiss or minimize the Köln attack at all, we're miscommunicating here.
There are two overlapping events here:
(1) increase of rapes in Europe by immigrants
You wrote about this. I haven't read much about it. Post more links from "long before New Years" then, where you read about it.
(2) groping and rapes on "Sylvesterabend" in Köln on a massive scale, women having to "run the gauntlet" through hundreds of men to reach the station with their underwear ripped to shreds. Thats new I think.
There was one person who reported she saw men coordinating the mob. I hope she survives and can tell the authorities about what she saw.
I think these are two separate issues. I don't think that Köln is so full of rapist asylum seekers that you have to knock them to the ground to safely reach the station. That looks like a deliberate organized attack on women, frojack, not everyday rape statistics by small groups of men or individuals (horrible as those are).
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Friday January 08 2016, @07:30PM
The attack in Köln is all over the news and is seen as very significant (headline news in national newspapers). Many government leaders are shocked (or say they are, anyway).
I can't comment on suppression of news reports; I only read a few on-line (larger) newspapers and I haven't seen these reports you mention. So I can't say if it's "a made up issue by biased articles in fringe news sites", it could also be "national leaders (...) leaning on main stream news outlets to suppress news reports of these rapes and sexual assaults", how can you tell the difference?
My impression is that the Köln attack is, to quote Monty Python, "something completely different". Almost nobody tries to shove it under the carpet, though. In my opinion.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by fritsd on Friday January 08 2016, @08:42PM
Here's one analysis in English, by Gaby Hinsliff, 6000 comments, in case you haven't read enough German Dutch and Swedish yet:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve [theguardian.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by zugedneb on Friday January 08 2016, @11:14PM
from TFA:
For xenophobes and racists, or merely anyone opposed to immigration, this story is Christmas come a week late.
yepp, no agenda there...
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:41PM
Yes, the Guardian has a left-wing bias, and the author has an agenda. Nevertheless, the article is readable, and the 6000 commenters have their own personal agenda and bias.
(Some commenters also said that they were right-wing but still sickened by the author's implication that they were happy at the attacks)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 08 2016, @09:13PM
Two, count 'em, TWO articles today telling us that "they" have been hiding the truth and even lying to us! I see we're moving nicely to the fringes.
The Truth Is Out There!
(Score: 5, Informative) by kbahey on Friday January 08 2016, @09:48PM
Lots of bigotry and misinformation in the summary and comments.
What happened in Cologne a week ago, has been happening regularly in Cairo, Egypt.
Gangs of male youth go out on the streets when it is crowded and assault young women. This happens on holidays, and during demonstrations and celebrations. Because they are many, they encourage each other, and it is harder police. Women are separated from the crowd, and assaulted in various ways.
In fact, one US reporter, Lara Logan [cbsnews.com], was sexually assaulted the same day Mubarak stepped down (Feb 11, 2011).
It also happened at a massive scale when Morsy was ousted in 2013 [theguardian.com].
And again, in 2014 [independent.co.uk].
Egypt still has a sexual assault problem [aljazeera.com].
The government does not care much, beyond putting more policemen in public places on holidays. Still, reporting an incident like this is painful, and victims stay quiet for various reasons.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning [2bits.com].
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:15AM
What bigotry? There is evidence of a culture that facilitates this behavior, some of which you provided, and that culture is being imported into Europe by new refugees. To tell people that bears eat salmon is not bigotry. To tell people that people from the middle-east, practicing middle-east culture, act like people from the middle-east is not bigotry either.
(Score: 4, Informative) by mtrycz on Friday January 08 2016, @11:27PM
The major itialian newspaper's Repubblica site reports that two nordafrican young men stopped by the police had a note with arab-german translations of things like
"I want to have sex", "I'm big", "I want to kiss you", "I want to kill you"
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2016/01/08/foto/violenze_di_colonia_trovato_biglietto_con_frasi_oscene_e_minacce_in_arabo_e_tedesco-130843787/1/?ref=HRER1-1#1 [repubblica.it]
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 10 2016, @02:00PM
Saying to the police that since they are Syrian they can not be touched? The law does not apply to refugees?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/10/after-cologne-attacks-british-politicians-show-share-merkel-values [theguardian.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by cpghost on Friday January 08 2016, @11:28PM
I'm a Soylentil living in a little town of 45,000 located between the cities of Düsseldorf and Cologne. In this town like in many other towns in Northrhine-Westphalia, we've integrated some 600 to 700 refugees and/or migrants from all over the world, mostly Syrians, Afghans, Balkanese, sub-saharan Africans, and some North-Africans. We can see them shopping at Aldi (think our version of Walmart) and all over the town with their families, children, ...
For what I can see and hear here in the neighborhood, there has been no problems w.r.t. sexual assault or bad behavior towards women from this new population whatsoever, for more than a year. I'm also daily in Düsseldorf and frequently in Cologne, and I must say that I'm really surprised and shocked by what happened at New Year's Eve in Cologne. It is not their usual behavior: something very unusual must have happened there.
IMHO, what happened in Cologne points to the following problem: near the Central Station (both Cologne and Düsseldorf), there are gangs of mainly young North-African drug dealers and pick-pockets, and I've got a strong feeling that what happened in Cologne was somehow related to a new kind of pick-pocketing method, where the sexual assaults was merely a diversion tactic. If authorities want to get rid of this kind of criminal behavior, they should really track those drug dealers and thieves, and throw them out of our country if they're not citizens. The problem would then disappear by itself.
Anyway, that's just my personal highly subjective feeling.
As to the public debate, and getting a little political now, that's a highly emotionally charged discussion which opened a whole can of worms: a lot of people from the German New Right are crawling out of their holes right now and and feeling emboldened to speak out what they thought all along the whole time. However, I've not heard this aggressive PEGIDA-like rhetoric here in my town nor in Düsseldorf today (nor before), despite all what happened, despite intensive media coverage of the Cologne assaults. I don't think that those far right extremists will prevail here in Western Germany. Luckily, in the Rhineland region, we have a very different mentality than that of Saxony and Dresden. In fact, we're exact opposites. That's why I'm particularly disgusted that those criminals picked Cologne for their attacks: of all cities in Germany, Cologne was the most tolerant and welcoming city towards refugees...
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @02:00AM
Using gang rape as a diversion? For pick-pocketing?!? Look, I'm pretty sure that, even in Germany, gang rape gets a much longer criminal sentence than pick-pocketing. Are you sure you have thought your strongly-felt theory through? Are you sure? Really?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @06:42AM
Not the original poster, but: there has been 1 (one) rape reported for Cologne during New Year's Eve; there is no mentioning of gang rape at all.
The sexual assaults reported are touching buttocks and breasts and dirty talk.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 09 2016, @07:25AM
... living near a refugee center (about 800 metres away) for the past 5 years: no, there is no experience of refugees showing anything that amounts of threatening behaviour towards the locals, or disrespectful behaviour towards women. What there is, regularly, is journalists clinging to there job -- the buggers get 2 euro per 100 words, as contractors -- by whipping up emotions.
As of June 2015, there were 573,828 refugees and asylum seekers [unhcr.org] in Germany (France actually took in more refugees (264,792 versus 250,299) than Germany, and far more than the UK [117,234]). By a quick and rough calculation, 1 million and 252,000 refugees are spread over 35 countries in Europe [unhcr.org], mainly being focused in 12 countries (not counting those countries where the number of refugees is below 15,000). There are 16 states in Germany; each of them has an intake center from where refugees are spread over local refugee centers. For easiness, let's assume that there's only one refugee center per state, and that other European countries have a similar distribution.
If sexually agressive behaviour is really ingrained in certain migrants' culture, what is the statistical chance that this kind of mass agression only happens near a single refugee center in (a) Germany, and (b) Europe?
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:19PM
Update saturday 2016-01-09
Here's a BBC news overview of today's status (excluding the Pegida demonstration which is probably going on now):
Cologne attacks: Merkel proposes tougher migrant laws [bbc.com]
also there might be a twitter tag: #koelnhbf (hbf means Hauptbahnhoff, train station)
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday January 09 2016, @01:39PM
Dagens Nyheter, 2016-01-09: Kölnbor söker svar efter övergreppen [www.dn.se] (in Swedish)
"Det värsta som kan hända är att folk drar sig för att knyta nya kontakter. Jag vet att många, speciellt kvinnor, har blivit oroliga – men rädslan får inte segra. Då blir ju kvinnorna offer en gång till, (...)"
If you think about it, she puts it like it was a (new kind of) terrorist attack.