from the my-favorite-subtitle-is-'Nautilus' dept.
A fansubbing group will sue the Netherlands anti-piracy group BREIN to test the legality of subtitle distribution:
A group of fan-made subtitle creators are taking the Hollywood-backed anti-piracy group BREIN to court. The fansubbers want a Dutch court to decide whether their activities are protected by freedom of expression and if BREIN is permitted to crack down on their work.
[...] Every day millions of people enjoy homemade subtitles but if it was up to some copyright holder groups, the websites offering these files would all cease to exist. This has created a fair amount of tension between both sides and several subtitle websites have had to close shop as a result of this pressure. In the Netherlands, however, a group of subtitle fanatics has decided to go on the offensive.
A group of fansubbers united in the "Free Subtitles Foundation" (Stichting Laat Ondertitels Vrij – SLOV) and raised $15,000 over the past two years for a legal campaign against the local anti-piracy group BREIN, which is about to kick off.
BREIN, who represent the major Hollywood studios and various other film companies, has previously threatened legal action against subtitle sites on several occasions and the Free Subtitles Foundation hopes to bring an end to this.
TorrentFreak contacted Camiel Beijer, the group's lawyer, who informed us that the case revolves around two issues. "The main question is whether the creation and publishing of film subtitles is an act only reserved to the maker of the film work in question," Beijer says. "The second issue concerns a review of the conduct of BREIN against people who create and reproduce subtitles. The Free Subtitles Foundation anticipates that a court verdicts will shed more light on these two themes."
The foundation will send out the summons next week and believes that the case is essential for the future of fansubbing in the Netherlands. It hopes that the court will side with their view that the right to freedom of expression and information trumps copyright.
[BREIN (Bescherming Rechten Entertainment Industrie Nederland) translates roughly as association for the Protection of the Rights of the Entertainment Industry of the Netherlands. ]
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Monday February 08 2016, @03:56AM
As though Dutch speakers didn't need yet another reason to learn English.
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(Score: 2) by Pino P on Monday February 08 2016, @04:32AM
Dutch and English are closely related, but I imagine that a lot of the media they want to sub comes from from Japan. Japanese has not been clearly shown to be related to any language outside East Asia. Japanese and Ryukyuan are related, but connections to Korean, Turkish, and Mongolian are far more speculative.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2016, @04:43AM
Really? I'm no linguist, but Japanese and Korean grammatical structure seems practically identical. It seems hard to believe that there's no clear connection between the languages, at least as they are spoken today.
A huge number of nouns in both languages also have clear Chinese origins, just shoehorned into different pronunciation regimes.
(Score: 3, Touché) by tangomargarine on Monday February 08 2016, @02:58PM
Japanese has not been clearly shown to be related to any language outside East Asia.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 08 2016, @04:52AM
https://motherboard.vice.com/nl/read/de-nederlandse-ondertitelhobbyisten-willen-een-rechtszaak-aanspannen-tegen-brein [vice.com]
I think this might provide some context. It seems the bigger issue is stuff that gets licensed in the Netherlands, which is far more likely to be English language movies than anime.
BREIN has threatened subtitlers, so this is no imagined threat to their hobby. Of course, subtitling English language works will almost certainly lead to piracy of those works, but the subtitles are just a tool, and one that should be found legal.
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(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 08 2016, @04:53AM
Second quote is from https://motherboard.vice.com/nl/read/ondertitel-hobbyisten-slepen-brein-dit-voorjaar-voor-de-rechter [vice.com]
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by M. Baranczak on Monday February 08 2016, @04:40AM
(Score: 2) by jimshatt on Monday February 08 2016, @09:08AM
Subtitles are a derived work of the original, so infringement is likely. Currently I'm hoping that the BREIN's and MAFIAA's will win (on the winning hand in Germany as well), and they see their incomes plummet because no one is willing to play their insane game.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2016, @05:27AM
How much money would the folks behind The Rocky Horror Picture Show have made if it wasn't for the publication and spread of the audience scripts for those cult Friday night showings that have gone on for decades? Seriously - years ago, those scripts were the reason why people went to see the film.
IANAL, but I think that this sort of thing is in the same category as fan subtitling. Without the subtitles, some people would never see the film. So the movie industry profits while paying nothing to produce the subtitles.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot - they are trying to prevent people from seeing films.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2016, @05:51AM
I am a Dick!
NO! I mean... I LIKE dicks!
In MY HAIR!
In my **orifice**
Oh... PLEASE! More, More dicks! Just like me!
(Score: 3, Funny) by nukkel on Monday February 08 2016, @08:15PM
Oh so you fansubbed the Iowa democratic caucus huh?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2016, @07:50AM
Don't buy their wares (give them money) and don't download either (give them publicity). Sometimes the only way to win really is to not play.
I can't see any point in this lawsuit, subtitles are clearly derivative works. And to add insult to injury, their only purpose is to aid and abet copyright infringing downloads...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2016, @01:59PM
> Sometimes the only way to win really is to not play.
Indeed, the more you live life like a hermit isolated from society and modern culture the more difference you will make in the world!
> their only purpose is to aid and abet copyright infringing downloads...
Nope. They can also be used with media that lacks localized subtitles. Happens all the time in the anime world where lots of japanese titles simply never get foreign releases.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 09 2016, @05:46AM
Happens all the time in the anime world where lots of japanese titles simply never get foreign releases.
This. Or the far more horrible reason: the fansubs are of better quality than the original ones.
I'm still assblasted about this because it cuts down your enjoyment of a series, especially when the Japanese release has specials that the licensing company didn't even bother to include.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 09 2016, @06:50AM
There is plenty of modern culture out there that isn't under the fascist all rights reserved banner.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday February 08 2016, @06:52PM
I can't see any point in this lawsuit, subtitles are clearly derivative works.
Maybe there is some nuance to Dutch law, but yeah, a translation is the very first example given by the US Copyright Office for derivative work!
A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already existing
works. Common derivative works include translations, musical arrangements,
http://copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf