from the free-information-wants-to-be-free dept.
Chelsea Manning (formerly Bradley Manning), has been blocked from reading printouts of EFF blog posts sent by a supporter, supposedly on "copyright" (among other) grounds:
EFF was dismayed to learn last week that the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks (USDB) at Fort Leavenworth has refused to provide inmate Chelsea Manning with printouts of EFF blog posts and other materials related to prisoner censorship. Worse yet, it appears that the reason is ostensibly to protect EFF's copyrights.
Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for her role in the release of military and diplomatic documents to Wikileaks. A volunteer from her support network attempted to send her a series of articles EFF wrote last year about our work defending the rights of inmates to maintain an online presence. This included articles about severe punishments leveled at inmates with Facebook profiles and our views on how prison telecommunications systems should be regulated. Also attached were relevant public records from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, EFF's comments to the Federal Communications Commission, and articles from Buzzfeed and the Harvard Business Review.
Manning was only allowed to have the Bureau of Prisons documents—an agency handbook and slide show on Facebook takedowns—but everything else was withheld. Instead, Manning received a notification that said the mail was rejected because it contained "printed Internet materials, including email, of a volume exceeding five pages per day or the distribution of which may violate U.S. copyright laws."
[...] EFF quickly sent USDB a letter explaining that all EFF content is available for reuse under a Creative Commons Attribution license[*] that allows for the material to be freely shared and remixed. The Creative Commons license is indicated, and the full policy linked, at the bottom of every page of our website. As the copyright holder, we asked the prison to provide Manning with the documents immediately and not to block any further EFF material from the facility. We further pointed out that our comments to the FCC were also public records, not simply information printed out from the Internet.
[*] Creative Commons Attribution license
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:16PM
"Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for her role in the release "
I'll fix that for you, "Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for his role in the release "
You can't change how God made you. Just accept it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:30PM
You spelled Nature wrong and if you are so pro Nature then you should not accept to a slave to old men who would have killed by their tribes a long time ago if Nature had it's way. Sadly your attachment to an artificial monotheistic "god" proves quite clearly that your another slave hoping to be allowed to eat the garbage from his masters table.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:38PM
So that's why you can always be found down at the gay bathhouse every night sucking dicks through the glory hole?
(Score: 5, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 26 2016, @10:38PM
Meanwhile, "Betray-us" Petraeus got a slap on the wrist and Hill-Dawg will get off scot-free.
Though Manning may be a good bargaining chip for Grand Emperor Baraq Hussein Sotero or if the next president, or whoever will pardon Manning.
The Democratic party is all about liberalism and queers, and they will lose the queers quickly if Manning is not pardoned or at least given a reduced sentence.
The political state in America is uncertain because rumors in the D.C. cocktail circuit suggest that Grand Emperor Baraq Hussein Sotero will declare a state of emergency and rule the U.S. with an iron fist for many years to come. He will have his own Praetorian Guard called "Al-Quesadilla" which consists exclusively of Illegal Terrorist Mexicans. You cannot stop him.
He will finalize his revenge against Whitey once and for all.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday February 26 2016, @11:33PM
Wow. You must be running on 195 Proof today :)
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:09AM
Eh, this queer is only voting in the Democrat primary because of Sanders. Normally I just leave the D/R teams to their own business. Once Clinton gets coronated, I'll probably just show up for the general election to submit a Libertarian straight ticket vote. Gary Johnson 2016 (only because we know Sanders doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell). The Libertarian Party is the only political party that represents my best interests. I'm not the only queer who feels this way.
My mentat computations show that it will be Clinton who declares the state of emergency and suspends the 2020 presidential election. That's of course contingent on TPP, TTIP, and TISA being enacted by 2019, which will prompt BRICS to switch away from the US dollar. Add in the mass migration from the Middle East, and it's a perfect storm. I highly doubt being queer will save anybody from FEMA concentration camps.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:46PM
There is no such thing as "god". Just accept it.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:28PM
At times like this I wish we had zero-click meigh meighs [reddit.com] on Soylent.
This'll have to do:
Doctor of Philosophy
in
Logic, Reason and Science
Awarded to:
Anonymous Coward
in recognition of the groundbreaking thesis:
gOD doesnt real!
So brave.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:34AM
God, root, what's the difference?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DECbot on Saturday February 27 2016, @05:08AM
Root explicitly only has authority on localhost, unless you configure you domain differently. God has authority over all, including those who are not part of His domain.
Not sure I like the policy of this protocol...
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:11PM
One of them exists :)
Disclaimer: as a Deist I do believe there is a God. When most people say "God," however, they mean the jumped-up Ugaritic murder fairy known as Yahweh. That thing either isn't real or is some kind of evil spirit, which explains everything you need to know about his followers.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:59PM
You can't change how God made you. Just accept it.
Communists don't have a god. Yuri Bezmenov, KGB defector to the USA, detailed the methods of communist subversion used against the west. [youtube.com] One interesting form is that the "sleeper" agent will wait until they become famous then suddenly become a transvestite, a gay, advocate nihilism and promote other forms of degeneracy ranging from pedophilia to bestiality.
See also: "Kaitlin" Jenner. "Chelsea" Manning also suddenly became a "woman" at the pinnacle of their attention for exposing things that make the USA look bad. Not saying the US doesn't do bad shit. However, I'm not an idiot. Manning is a fucking traitorous spy and knew what to expect. We don't have to admit they were infiltrators to make an example out of them if we've got an espionage act violation already.
The Zen of News: The news that can be reported is not the real news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:11AM
Wow how could you possibly that brainwashed?
I implore you, please seek medical help soon, before you do damage to yourself or others.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @01:35AM
I Didn't Watch the Video: The Comment
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Friday February 26 2016, @11:59PM
My go to example of a man: Harisoo [google.com].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @05:16AM
Invoking your imaginary friend doesn't change the fact that gender is a social construct (and english pronouns are based on gender, rather than sex, which is far more complicated than the binary nature of the language takes into account).
If you can pretend some codependent fuck in the sky is responsible for damn near everything, I'm not sure you should be calling out Chelsea Manning for imagining herself as a female in any case. Even if we agree to call it a fantasy, I'd say hers is a lot less far fetched than yours.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @05:59AM
Does it matter? No. So there's no point arguing about it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:18AM
If the Creator made you a Man, but you don't respect the manhood you were endowed with, there go your Rights with it! It's a package deal, guys! So always wear a cup.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @08:08AM
God put a female soul in a male body to test your love and compassion.
(Score: 5, Informative) by frojack on Friday February 26 2016, @10:29PM
the mail was rejected because it contained "printed Internet materials, including email, of a volume exceeding five pages per day or the distribution of which may violate U.S. copyright laws."
There were several ground listed. Why does the comment in the story focus on last, and least likely to be cited ground?
There seems to be a blanket prohibition of printed internet materials in excess of 5 pages per day.
5 pages a day is pretty tight, or pretty loose depending on type point size, single side or duplex printed.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @10:42PM
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @10:44PM
Edited summary.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:30AM
Wow, we can do that?......
Point being that the EFF seems to have missed those other reasons too.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:45PM
And frojack in defense of the fascists - what's new ? Maybe mighty buzzard or j.morris just used their mod points ? Funny how soylentnews is starting to be more and more like slashdot after the ayn.rand tard invasion - too bad she didn't stay in Russia to enjoy the results of her beliefs. No point to subscribe to soylentnews anymore, if they allow libertarians in to take control of their site they should also pay the bandwidth
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @10:47PM
It was just a factual concern, and the summary has been updated to reflect it.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 26 2016, @11:33PM
Why don't you speak up more, then? I am neither fascist, libertarian, nor conservative, and yet don't feel any prohibition from those who are, whatsoever. The comments on the site only trend the way you fear if you fear to speak up.
Also, just because some Soylentils are conservative/libertarian/fascist does not preclude them from making good points or saying interesting things.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by rondon on Friday February 26 2016, @11:47PM
I appreciate you (and others) chiming in trying to get the AC's to take more ownership of the site when they bitch and complain. Most days, I simply don't have the energy to reply to their whining.
So, thank you and everyone else trying to make the site a place for interesting discourse.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:49PM
Maybe developers should avoid posting on political/religious topics - they should choose between being a developer on this site and posting person opinions. Who knows how much their position of developers can influence the number of mod points or the topics which are posted here ? Also do you also think nazi make good points ? Because libertarian/fascists are in same category as old good nazis
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:16AM
Take your head of your ass. This is a volunteer-operated discussion board, not the Dept of Justice. If you actually care like you pretend to, review the code yourself.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:37AM
LOL - take the other AC's advice. Pull your head out of your ass. You'll enjoy the rush of fresh oxygen spreading through your brain.
(Score: 3, Funny) by lcklspckl on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:09AM
Money for Mods!!.
The terrible Truth, Forward this to all of your Friends and Family. We have a WAR to win!!
Who knows? I do. I've been there, but barely escaped. I've seen shit you wouldn't believe. There's this room. It's sign says Server Room, but inside that room... I still get chills to this day. Mod point were handed out, subscriptions were taken, pages were published, summaries edited, original summaries preserved, bugs fixed....this list of terrifying deeds goes on and on--even as I write this now. But even worse, some of these monsters actually dared--damn, this is hard, even as I write this now I feel the dread--to post! Can you believe that, even on stories that interested them! Revealing their deepest held political beliefs for your EDIFICATION! Invited others to debate, the very best challenged them, but they were not strong enough to flow the mods to the non-naziliberfacism posts! Some escaped, like me. This isn't even the whole of it, in order to get in...even as I write this now, I tremble with fear--Do I start with the goat's blood or the liberknotsfashic oath of servitude? I said I'd never tell, under that oath, but I can feel the end is coming, they are close now. Even as I write this now, the fear is intense. I hope that everyone, everywhere will come to this site and battle its evil, evil overlords. They threaten your freedom and our children all at the same time or something.
Oh and the Nazi thing is just pathetic at this point. Humans like you have turned a very dark period in time, all of what was to be learned by our species, anything that could be salvaged from all of the death and destruction, into a fucking joke on the internet by comparing it to increasingly specious or vacuous notions. Good job, human.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:42AM
I probably mod my enemies up more than any other group ... and down more than any other group ... but you are absolutely correct in this sentiment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:36AM
You've made my day. I come here to listen to the whiners. Cry some more, little wimp. I love the sound of meaningless sniveling.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:04PM
take your statist ass down the road
(Score: 2) by Gravis on Friday February 26 2016, @11:01PM
and you can get creative by composing an image that is actually multiple pages [smithsonianmag.com] that can be read using color filters. however, this would mean they would have to manage to send colored plastic sheets ahead of time.
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Friday February 26 2016, @11:23PM
It is possible that the Army withheld the documents because they were longer than fives pages. However, we believe this to be unlikely since the documents it did deliver were far longer than any of the other materials and exceeded five pages. That means that it was potentially copyright concerns that resulted in Manning’s mail being censored.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:31AM
Sir, Yes, Sir, Major, Sir.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:58AM
> 5 pages a day is... pretty loose depending on type point size, single side or duplex printed.
Seriously? Duplex printed, at the smallest font size you can actually read, five pages is enough reading material for a day?
Is this a judgment about the morality of reading, or a commentary on how fast you can move you lips?
How inhumane.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday February 27 2016, @05:48AM
Is this a judgment about the morality of reading, or a commentary on how fast you can move you lips?
The prison library has plenty for him to read. Communication from the outside is one thing that gets controlled in prison.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday February 27 2016, @09:30PM
Maybe it's a commentary on the quality of your eyes. I certainly would without problems get four ordinary pages on a readable-to-me small-print page. On a duplex-printed sheet, 8 pages (4 on the front, 4 on the back). Thus 5 sheets of paper could easily hold 40 ordinary pages.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @10:56PM
You can think that you are a dolphin, but that doesn't make you a dolphin. You don't look like one, you don't swim like one, and you can't make dolphin babies.
What you wish were true does not become true merely because you wish it so, nor because you believe it to be so. This is mental illness.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @11:09PM
It's a pointless discussion. Eventually the technology will advance to allow complete gender transformation, including at the genetic level. Then the pronoun can truly match.
Until then, it's unfair to say that claiming a gender identity different than the assigned/genetic identity means you are mentally ill. That's a leap of logic that brushes away other explanations, like the person is simply choosing to be incorrect or lying, neither of which require you to be mentally ill. You don't have to go along with using the gender pronouns preferred by the person, but many news organizations now do follow such a guide [glaad.org].
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:32PM
Eventually the technology will advance to allow complete gender transformation, including at the genetic level.
What is "things only someone high on both marijuana and cocaine can believe", Alex?
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @11:42PM
Anonymous cowards know what they're talking about.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by julian on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:33AM
So you're saying that there's no conceivable technology that would allow for genes to be replaced/edited in a living organism? We can do that now. It also happens naturally in some species of frogs. Once you can do it's then just a matter of scaling up the number and complexity of the edits/deletions/additions. I'll admit it seems like a stupendous waste of what would doubtless be many whole careers developing the technology and techniques, but doubting that it's impossible--in principle--seems overly pessimistic.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:44AM
I'll admit it seems like a stupendous waste of what would doubtless be many whole careers developing the technology and techniques, but doubting that it's impossible--in principle--seems overly pessimistic.
If that meant the different between living a century versus a million years, then some people might feel differently.
(Score: 2) by julian on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:51AM
I meant gender swapping application was frivolous, not the general technique to achieve it which could also do useful things like life extension.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday February 27 2016, @01:11AM
I don't think we have a shortage of scientists... both pursuits will be pursued. And neither capability has been available for all of human history.
Anti-aging proponents will have a tough time getting through a firewall of bioethicists to get aging recognized as a disease, especially since it will likely require complex therapies (stem cells, nanobots) to defeat aspects of aging rather than a simple drug:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_extension#Aging_as_a_disease [wikipedia.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:44AM
In light of the many postings regarding "peer reveiwed" "research" - maybe we really do have a shortage of scientists. For instance, a scientist wouldn't say to himself, "I know man made global warming is real, now, how can I prove it to the world?" Nor would a real scientist say, "I've got to find some field in which there are tons of free flowing money to tap." Scientists also tend to enjoy sharing their findings, they don't cop out of explaining things with "It's just to complicated to explain!"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:52AM
Anti-aging proponents will have a tough time getting through a firewall of bioethicists to get aging recognized as a disease, especially since it will likely require complex therapies (stem cells, nanobots) to defeat aspects of aging rather than a simple drug:
Either anti-aging proponents will come with partial or full cures for aging or they won't. The former readily bypasses the "firewall".
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:34PM
Honest question:
If someone can be born "male" and then later decide they would rather be identified as "female", then could someone else be born "white" and then later decide they would rather be identified as "black"?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @11:40PM
They could try. It's probably more pertinent in the case of biracial people. Hell, wasn't there a movie made about it? Yup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imitation_of_Life_(1959_film) [wikipedia.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:30AM
Consider this case [wikipedia.org] where a journalist spent sex weeks passing as a black man.
He even had the audacity to use the bathroom not of his birth skin color:
In New Orleans, a black counterman at a small restaurant chatted with Griffin about the difficulties of finding a place to go to the bathroom. He turned a question about a Catholic church into a joke about "spending much of your time praying for a place to piss".
Clearly, somebody should have passed a law [charlotteobserver.com] requiring him to use the white bathroom despite his skin color at the time. I still can't believe blacks and whites use the same bathrooms these days. It's a travesty of liberal fascism gone mad!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:52AM
> [...] a journalist spent sex weeks passing as a black man.
He must have been hung.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:41PM
Luckily for me, technology has already advanced to the point where I can live as the person I was meant to be, Napoleon Bonaparte [funhousetheatricalcostumes.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday February 26 2016, @11:44PM
But how well can you speak French?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:23AM
AC is absolutely on to something here. We can't let these vile trans women and other women without reproductive systems capable of giving live birth without any surgical interventions such as cesarian sections or utertus transplants [npr.org] continue to invade womyn-born-womyn! The woman in the linked article should have been injected with testosterone the minute it was clear that she was not equipped to give live birth without medical intervention!
We should all support the wisdom being posted by this feminist AC.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by undefinedvalue on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:53AM
takyonWhile I can brush off AC as a troll, you suggest several ideas that on the surface might sound reasonable but are strongly disturbing to me as a trans woman myself.
1. The implication that gender identity cannot truly "match" unless everything is "correct" down to the genetic level
As a trans woman myself, I feel no connection between my genetics and gender identity. Sure, my genetics gave me a non-standard female body, but my internal identity of my own gender is still female otherwise I wouldn't have that identity in the first place. Another thing to think about: what genetics would you require bigender/agender/multigender people to have before you thought they were "correct" in your eyes?
2. Gender identity might just be an incorrect choice or deliberate lie
Are trans people just incorrect about their gender identity? Why is any person besides themselves qualified to judge that? If almost everyone if the world suddenly started referring to you as your opposite gender, would you change your identity because they said so?
Are trans people just lying? For what possible gain? If a person lies about their gender identity they are by definition not transgender because they do not actually identify as that gender. Believe me, I wouldn't have gone through the pain of telling everyone I knew and loved that I actually identify as female if I was just lying.
3. You don't have to "go along with" a person's preferred gender pronouns
Yes, you have the right to free speech and you have a choice to follow a person's preference or not.
However, if a transgender person tells you that they prefer certain pronouns, why not support them? The only reason not to is because you have some sort of personal belief otherwise, and who is to say that your belief is more correct that that person's own knowledge about themselves?
Basically, what I'm getting at is that identifying as transgender is a real thing that is embedded in the core of one's own self identity.
I'll leave you with this to ponder on: 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide, compared with 4.6% in the general population. However, for transgender people that are supported and treated as their self-identified gender, their suicide rates are no different than the general population. I don't ask you to take my word for it, so here is a summarizing article with links to studies supporting that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html [huffingtonpost.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:30AM
SJW-hating, #GamerGate-supporting Buzzard perspective:
The above is all fine and good, as long as you're civil about it. Don't hate on me and you can identify as a one-eyed squirrel named Zeke if you want as far as I'm concerned. If you ask politely to be called him or her, I'll likely shrug and go along with it. If you make up some silly new pronoun, I'll probably just avoid using pronouns entirely but I won't bust your balls, or lack thereof, about it. Life's too short to spend it fighting people who didn't start it; I'd rather be fishing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:55AM
I don't know many one-eyed squirrels, although I remember seeing one in the spring of 2013. I was unable to communicate with him/her regarding his/her name, and I lack the veterinary knowledge to assess that squirrel's physiological gender. I was also unable to determine how the squirrel lost an eye.
Agreed, life is better spent fishing. Not for trolls—they're far too toxic—but for things you can fry up at the end of the day and *nom*. I prefer some lemon pepper myself. There's also the option of a chowder, provided potatoes are at hand.
This matter really should be straightforward. Manning has declared herself a woman. Like many other women, she cannot grow a live child in her body, say sorry. I am uncertain why there is a profusion of ACs that pop up every time Manning makes the news who insist that she cannot be a woman. I keep linking to Harisoo because… well, if you saw me IRL you'd conclude I was a woman all on your own (and you wouldn't be alone), and I wouldn't argue. The entire pronoun game is stupid.
I once worked with a guy who was consistently gendered female at the drive through, when I used to flip burgers for a living. Should we conclude based on public perception that he is a woman? I think that's faulty—at least it's prone to failure. He was a man because he said he was.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @10:45AM
Don't get me wrong now, I'm not especially nice or understanding; only tolerant. The key there was they gotta be civil. Polite would be better. Demand a pronoun rather than request and I shall identify as an Apache attack copter whose pronouns are whup-whup-whup, brrrrrrrt, and fwoosh and the mocking shall only get worse from there.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:02PM
What a bizarre world I live in. 10–20 years ago it was considered polite, especially on the telephone, when one accidentally misgenders another that the other person would be able to correct the error and move on.
Oh well! Strangers typically think I'm a womyn-born-womyn, even when dressed as a guy, so whatever. Now here's the real trick: it's only a matter of time before a womyn-born-womyn gets misgendered by one of you Apache attack copters! I'll be warming up the roflcopter for when this madness reaches that inevitable conclusion [newnownext.com]! (More credible sauce [advocate.com].) From NewNowNext:
A cisgender woman is suing the Detroit restaurant Fishbones after she was mistaken for a man in the women’s bathroom and aggressively thrown out of the building by security.
The situation, explained by the woman below, perfectly illustrates how ridiculous and dangerous the conservative right’s continuous attempts to enforce gendered bathroom patrolling has become.
From The Advocate:
The guard allegedly entered the bathroom yelling, "This is a woman's bathroom, if you are a man, come out!" and pulled Bogorad by the arms out of the stall when she opened its door. She said he then pushed her up against the wall, saying "boys aren't allowed in this restroom," according to the Detroit Free Press.
But hey, if the Apache attack copter demographic likes roughing up womyn-born-womyn they've misgendered, more power to you in my book! Bloody her face! Break her legs! Give me a call and I'll get my 15 lbs plumber's wrench from the basement and help out!
I love Michigan!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @07:24PM
Did you even read what I said? I think you just want someone to argue with. I am not your huckleberry on this issue. Be polite and you'll get the same consideration from me. Be a dick and you'll get the same back in spades as well. That is what tolerance is. Buy a fucking dictionary.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @11:40PM
Several times, actually. You may be a very reasonable person. I would trust that you are a far better person than the security guard who injured, humiliated, and literally threw a cisgendered woman out of Fishbone's last year over by Detroit. I wasn't actually expecting to find that gem while I was formulating a reply, so I apologize if I was too exuberant.
On the other hand, I have seen normally reasonable people turn into violent animals when they suspect a trans woman is getting away with something. I've had the police called on me before for raising my voice and shattering momentary cisgendered privilege. (Personally, I prefer simply being asked to leave, and I have no problem doing so.) I can say I've been turned away from the men's room many times, but there usually isn't much of an argument to be had when I whip it out in front of a urinal. (Yep, I'm a troll IRL too!)
These acts of violence against cisgendered women with short hair who are otherwise just minding their own business will increase the more popular the attack copter meme gets. These are interesting times, indeed. That's the point I'm really driving at here. Cisgendered women (at least 2 so far, see the other Advocate article I linked replying to myself) are being physically assaulted because certain people in this country can't handle the idea that trans women exist and are gaining legitimacy as women.
One time on the other site, I rhetorically asked somebody if they went around paranoid that any given woman in a crowd might not be cisgendered. I suppose I now have my answer. Yes, there really are people who are fully prepared to assault and injure somebody they believe is a trans woman, because the thought that they might be wrong has never crossed their mind.
Frankly, the attack copter sexual identity meme is just yet another indication that things are getting out of control. It's a dangerous idea that you can immediately, without fail, know whether somebody is “really” male or female. The point isn't whether or not you, personally, politely accept the “incorrect” answer in your view. If you do, then hats off to you. More people would do well to follow your example. No nonsense with attack copters needed.
At the same time, I have nothing but schadenfreude to offer the victims of people who share your expertise with identification of somebody's “true” gender but do not share your much appreciated tolerance. I mean, hey, better a cisgendered woman find out trans women aren't welcome somewhere than me!
(Also wanted to express again my appreciation for this site's decision to reject the notion of implementing a code of conduct. These discussions would be impossible with such a thing in place.)
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday February 28 2016, @01:23AM
*tips hat* Yup, that is precisely the reason they try to implement them. Their arguments cannot stand up to even the most cursory debate and they damned well know it. Thus, thought policing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @07:31PM
Submitted as story! Found more roflcopter-ness while deciding whether to contact the restaurant or not. Not everybody's as lucky as me and Harisoo, and I am genuinely concerned for the safety of a friend who is known to go on road trips any time she has a bit of cash burning a hole in her purse. She's not a pipsqueak like me at least.
I'm a Lesbian Targeted by the Bathroom Police [advocate.com]
I probably should have linked here [seganerds.com] for the meme Buzzard is referencing and more balanced coverage of the whole Sonic the Apache Attack Helicopter Twitter drama. See also KnowYourMeme [knowyourmeme.com].
Bwahahaha! We have to assault the cisgendered hunnies to protect the cisgendered hunnies! Take off every roflcopter! Move roflcopter, for great justice!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:00AM
I engaged with the troll because the same message of "transgenderism is mental illness" is prevalent. I simplified my arguments to make them more palatable for a skeptical audience.
I don't require anyone to be correct, and I don't want to judge whether they are "correct". I'm just saying that people born decades from now are going to have access to much better sex change technology (if civilization still exists). Eventually it could become so advanced that it will make hormone therapy look like trepanation. The end-game is that you get any kind of body you want in a process almost as easy as using a vending machine, as frequently as you want. And if that technology existed, you should be able to refuse/ignore it as well. I have a feeling that many transgender people would adopt such an advance though, just as many deaf people will adopt advanced hearing implants, leaving behind a few abstainers.
I guess "gender identity" wasn't the correct phrase for me to use. Let's put it this way, if an anthropologist came and dug up a trans person's skeleton 500 years from now, and a biologist got a DNA sample and sequenced the entire genome, what gender would they assign to that person? Likely strictly male or female, possibly with some added intersex related genetic condition. Unmeasurable epigenetics AND/OR life experiences may be responsible for people choosing a different gender identity that would not necessarily match genetic evidence.
My list of reasons was not meant to be exhaustive or full of good examples. It was meant to quickly disprove the false notion that a mental illness has to be involved.
I did and do. There aren't any actual pronouns in my own text, but I used Chelsea Manning first and in the headline. I added the parenthesized "Bradley Manning" because many similar articles about the individual have and she was known as Bradley Manning at the time of the offense and world recognition.
Ok, fine, you're independent of your substrate.
I already know about the high suicide stats. How much support is needed? Because vast amounts of the U.S. population at least will not be generous with such support, when they are still arguing over restrooms.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @05:33AM
It's a pointless discussion.
Do we have an award for The Most Insightful Comment Ever here on SoylentNews? Well, DO we? Punk?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Friday February 26 2016, @11:24PM
Nature is very interesting and sex is actually pretty malleable. For example:
I'm no biologist so I'm sure that isn't an exhaustive list. Anyway, the whole sex change thing is not so strange as bigots like to make out. It's a fact of nature and humans are very good at working with nature to achieve a certain end, e.g., all of medicine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:36PM
cool organisms that aren't in the same phylum or even kingdom as humans, ahmed
want to bring them by the white house
(also, nice use of the word 'bigot' for instant ad-hom bonus!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 26 2016, @11:46PM
back to /pol/
(Score: 2, Touché) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:36AM
I believe Soylent even covered one of the scenarios [wikipedia.org] in humans a while back.
Don't worry, AC, I'm completely with you! I know how frustrating things have been for you feminists lately, what with the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival getting shut down. In fact, I demand we give all infants genetic tests to determine their true gender! Then we can cover all kinds of conditions including androgen insensitivity syndrome! If it has a Y chromosome (no matter how many Xs), then we need to assign it the male gender, mutilate its genitals, and inject it with testosterone starting age 12!
(Score: 3, Informative) by MostCynical on Friday February 26 2016, @11:48PM
Don't forget clown fish:
http://gizmodo.com/scientifically-accurate-finding-nemo-would-be-horrifyin-1169760550 [gizmodo.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Informative) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:28AM
There's a case in the literature of someone with XY chromosomes who got pregnant twice without medical intervention and carried to term once. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9
Google "guevedoces" to find out about apparently female children who sprout testes and penises at puberty. But watch out for medical photos that might be NSFW.
XX people with congenital adrenal hyperplasia can look surprisingly masculine.
One Olympic athlete, whom every doctor from the delivery room onward had been convinced was female, flunked a chromosome test when she turned out to be XY.
Then there's the entire intersex world of ambiguous anatomy, and another world of chromosome abnormalities.
(Score: 2) by julian on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:00AM
Then there's the entire intersex world of ambiguous anatomy, and another world of chromosome abnormalities.
But these are various types of genetic errors. If you have these conditions it's because something went wrong in your DNA transcription, and we can point out exactly what is malfunctioning. Another genetic defect in the HPRT1 gene causes your body to be unable to produce hypoxanthine guanine phosphoribosyltransferase, leading to Lesch Nyhan syndrome. These people are suffering from a disease, they're not living an alternative lifestyle without hypoxanthine guanine phosphoribosyltransferase. If you have ambiguous genitalia, your body failed to produce unambiguous genitalia--like it was supposed to. If there was a way to detect and fix this in utero we would, and in fact it would be unethical not to do so.
(Score: 3, Touché) by hemocyanin on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:37AM
"supposed to".
If interesting things didn't happen in nature, we'd all be single celled organisms.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:51AM
Several lines of evidence point strongly to the conclusion that trans people are not "leading an alternate lifestyle" either. One model (*) describes it as an intersex condition with a mismatch between brains and reproductive organs.
(*) "All models are false, some are useful".
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:20AM
Like I said, in full support of AC and Michigan-style Feminism! I am glad to be joined by fellow feminists on this board! We should forcefully inject anybody who has a Y chromosome present anywhere (even in cases of genetic chimeras) with testosterone beginning age 12!
We cannot allow these self-selected transgenders to invade cisgendered hunnies, not even apparent cisgendered hunnies! We must raze the genetic errors!
I will not stand for it! They are nothing but rapists and murderers. I believe the documentary The Silence of the Lambs is all the evidence I need against these estrogen-taking rapists and other products of inferior, non-Aryan genetics defects. The documentary The Rocky Horror Picture Show also shows the dangers of allowing jihadist elements of the Transsexual planet of the Transylvania galaxy undo credibility!
HEIL HITLER! Kill the genetically deficient!
(Meta: crap, in my drunken rage, I finally Godwinned it. Oh well, it's late. Let's fry up some goldenfish on the barbie. I've got the lemon pepper and even some El Yucateco red shit if you want to try your luck at nuclear fish!)
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:55AM
I realize I might have failed to respond to your ethical concern that a great deal of suffering could be avoided were our technology able to respond in utero to the various ways that biology can be messy. Honestly, there is no argument here. I am only partially trolling here, but only because I love this data point. It relates to the trauma I suffered attempting to live up to Michigan-style feminist expectations of me.
The Heartland Institute (google-fu fails me) has come to the correct conclusion that forcing a child to be the gender it is not is traumatic in the long run. I would truly, outside of my trolling, be in full support of an effort to correctly determine a fetus' gender and allow it to develop normally according to that gender. Nobody should have to suffer the fate of being forced to be a gender they are not.
I hope you've fully considered the ethical ramification of your decision to privilege the gender assigned at birth over medical science. I guess it'd be too bad if somebody traumatized by being forced to live as a gender they are not, being forced and judged by sexual attractions they do not have, were to finally flip a bit and take some lives.
I suppose it's all relative. Personally, I can wait until the Clinton Coronation results in martial law come 2019. Then I will merely lol when the bombs fall in 2025.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday February 26 2016, @11:25PM
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 26 2016, @11:37PM
Shklee [theinfosphere.org]
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Funny) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday February 27 2016, @12:16AM
I'm with you, AC! There are so many people out there living as women and even calling themselves cisgendered or womyn-born-womyn who can't have children. Then there are the ones who don't have children. I demand we reassign anybody assigned to the female gender who hasn't had a child by age 20 and force them to undergo testosterone HRT! /s
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:11PM
What a curious obsession you have: forcing other people to do things.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @01:11AM
Nature doesn't give a shit what you call yourself, Evolution doesn't feel bad if you can't make dolphin babies, and any identity humans attribute to themselves has no direct implications on reality.
People can call each other whatever they like and they are free to accept the social repercussions of their decisions. I'm sure many people would call you an jackass, even though they know that you can't mate with a horse and produce mule babies, because you are so bothered by what names someone wants identify with.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:53AM
This is as erudite as the argument against evolution I once heard, which ran something like "you don't see cats turning into humans just because they like to bask in the glow of a fire."
Correct response to that and you: WTF?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:37AM
Just in the last twenty years or so some fascinating peer reviewed brain studies from multiple groups have been finding that sexually dimorphic brain regions in trans people match their reported gender and not their below-the-neck appearance.
If some mad scientist transplanted a girl's brain into a boy's body, the only decent way to treat the victim would be to call her "she".
For further reading, try http://aebrain.blogspot.com/p/sexual-differentiation-of-human-brain.html [blogspot.com] or the Nature paper that's fourth in the list at http://aebrain.blogspot.com/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html [blogspot.com]
Tl;dr -- fetuses develop brains and gonads at different points during gestation and they can go in opposite directions.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:18PM
Now if only we could pound this through the regressives' heads.
Buzzard, Runaway, JMorris, KHallow, FUCKING READ THIS. And shut the hell up about "trans people are just confused/mentally ill." The evidence is there; they've got a birth defect. This is not something they chose. This is a type of intersex condition, just a less obvious one than being born with ovotestis.
Of course you won't, though, because it's easier and feels better to go on ignorant and hateful. Change is hard, I get it. Living an informed life and understanding that reality is nuanced is difficult.
Why, one might almost say it's a lifestyle choice...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @10:13PM
In fairness, the evidence is there but it's buried in mountains of reeking garbage. Google doesn't help as much as usual. Medical books are still catching up and intuition backfires.
I was pretty danged ignorant two or three years ago.
We're all nerds here, though, so driving to the library and ordering reprints of journal articles should come naturally.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @03:45AM
You're correct. And a dick. Don't be a dick. Wil Wheaton is a dick and you don't want to be like him, do you?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:40PM
You telling someone not to be a dick is a little like the Grand Wizard of the KKK telling people to ease off the anti-black hate. The lack of self-awareness from you and people who, for lack of a better term, "think" like you do, would be hilarious were it not both so tragic and so damaging to other people...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday February 27 2016, @07:19PM
See, I knew some douchenozle, wouldn't be able to resist attacking. It's not being a dick to win an argument. Going out looking for them like you just did and like outrage merchants do with their microaggressions is being a dick.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 27 2016, @10:16PM
People like you trying to use "microaggression" remind me a lot of wrinkly old white guys doing the Crip walk...and you calling someone else douchenozzle is an all-cookware Code Black alert!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:00AM
That assessment was the state of the art in medicine fifty years ago.
"Mental illness" is treatable, but all attempts to change people's internal gender identity have failed as badly as attempts to change their sexual orientation.
Based on that, a medical standard of care evolved since fifty years ago that acknowledges the primacy of the inbuilt sense of identity. It started with Harry Benjamin, against some hysterical resistance, and has continued at WPATH (wpath.org).
Is a zebra black with white stripes, or white with black stripes? Is Caitlyn Jenner a woman in a male-typical body, or a man with a brain set to "female"? Ontology is debatable but unless you're giving Private Manning a prostate exam then the decent way to treat her is as a woman.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 27 2016, @09:32PM
Some kinds of mental illness can be treated some of the time. Often people need ever-increasing drug dosages to overcome the mental illness. In general, mental illness is not treatable.
Neither the fact that gender issues are untreatable, nor the fact that they do not greatly impede non-sexual aspects of life, is enough to disqualify them as mental illness. There exist untreatable mental illnesses. There exist mental illnesses that do not prevent people from driving (except in Russia, heh), paying bills, and generally going about life productively and independently.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 27 2016, @10:21PM
Except what the science seems to be saying is trans people have an actual physical birth defect, the brain-structure version of ambiguous or outright mismatching genitalia. Like Beryllium said above, neurogenesis and gonadogenesis are separate (though interacting) processes. It's not that far a stretch to imagine one going wrong while the other doesn't, is it?
Besides, i would bet you good money most of the mental illness is depression, anxiety, or civilian PTSD *secondary* to said birth defect; specifically, arising as a result of internal and external conflict (like getting thrown out on the goddamn street...). Has anyone done a study focusing on cultures which have a "third gender" category for people like this, and whether those people experience the same types of mental illness?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 07 2016, @07:16PM
that is what they told the other inmates, omitting the 'unless' part.
*badumchink*
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @04:58AM
Not a bad analogy, actually.
Drop a dolphin's brain into your body, or to be more humane into the body of someone with anencephaly instead.
The result would be someone driven to madness by a body that made no sense, wanting to shriek "Why is everyone treating me like a land animal and WHY THE $#@! CAN'T I ECHOLOCATE?!!".
Someone trying to be realistic might walk up and say "You can't swim like a dolphin or make dolphin babies". Both would be true statements, but in context pointlessly mean.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mendax on Friday February 26 2016, @11:30PM
In the research I've done on the First Amendment over the years I've come across many cases. One of them is Clement v. California Department of Corrections (2004), 364 F.3d 1148 [aclunc.org], in which the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled a prison policy that restricted prisoner's access to information from the Internet to be unconstitutional on First Amendment grounds. The 5 page limit on Internet-related materials appears to be an example of such a restriction. While the Ninth Circuit decision does not apply to where Chelsea Manning is currently housed, it's highly likely if the EFF or the ACLU were to sue DOD for this policy, DOD would lose.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Friday February 26 2016, @11:35PM
Actually, the link I provided is to the district court decision. The Ninth Circuit decision is here [justia.com]
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday February 26 2016, @11:49PM
In the research I've done on the First Amendment over the years I've come across many cases. One of them is Clement v. California Department of Corrections (2004), 364 F.3d 1148, in which the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled a prison policy that restricted prisoner's access to information from the Internet to be unconstitutional on First Amendment grounds. The 5 page limit on Internet-related materials appears to be an example of such a restriction. While the Ninth Circuit decision does not apply to where Chelsea Manning is currently housed, it's highly likely if the EFF or the ACLU were to sue DOD for this policy, DOD would lose.
While I agree that the First Amendment *should* be adhered to regardless of the circumstance, Manning (as you alluded to) is in a U.S. military prison and was convicted under the UCMJ [www.ucmj.us]. As such, civillian rules do not apply. AFAIK, these are the only rules against "cruel and unusual punishment." [www.ucmj.us]
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by mendax on Saturday February 27 2016, @01:07AM
Oodles of court precedents over the years indicate that prisoners cannot be deprived of their First Amendment rights except when those rights interfere with some important governmental interest, in this case institutional security. Even a person in a military prison is entitled to full exercise of free speech, which includes both the right to send materials out as well as receive materials. Even the UCMJ is not above the U.S. Constitution.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday February 27 2016, @02:40AM
I've been doing some harrowing reading about conditions in civilian prisons and this sort of arbitrary, capricious, and illegal activity is damn near routine.
(Score: 2, Touché) by dingus on Saturday February 27 2016, @06:02AM
Since when have laws been an impediment to the State? They made the laws, they can break them.
(Score: 2) by Username on Saturday February 27 2016, @09:07PM
He’s in prison for sharing classified information on the internet. It only makes sense to punish him by limiting access to the very thing he used to commit the crime. The real thing, printouts from it, or even a book on it. Reading printouts isn’t freedom of speech.
Whats next, the prison restricts his first amendment right to peacefully assemble outside the prison?
(Score: 2) by mendax on Sunday February 28 2016, @12:06AM
Actually, that is incorrect. If you read the court opinion in Clement v. California Department of Corrections, you would learn that the freedom of speech necessarily includes the right to receive it. Therefore, reading printouts *IS* freedom of speech. And I'm sorry to say but it is unconstitutional to punish someone by eliminating his freedom of speech or expression. The First Amendment cannot be infringed upon except when the needs of the institution require it. Restricting his access to information about the EFF's activities has nothing to do with the needs of the prison. More importantly, a prisoner has every right to know his rights while in prison as well as have ample activity to the courts and access to a well-equipped law library so he can perform legal work.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.