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posted by cmn32480 on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:21PM   Printer-friendly
from the less-stuff-means-smaller-houses dept.

IKEA made headlines when it openly mused about Western economies "reaching peak stuff", but they are by no means the only folks who think that our seemingly insatiable appetite for more and more stuff might finally be leveling out.

New figures from the UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggest that the amount of raw materials consumed by the UK economy fell from 15 tonne per person in 2001 to just over 10 tonnes in 2013.

That's a pretty astounding drop.

True, there was this tiny thing called The Great Recession between then and now. But still, such a huge decrease in everything from steel to plastics to fuel and biomass suggests that something bigger (or maybe smaller?) is going on. Over at The Guardian, Patrick Collinson takes a deeper dive into the numbers, noting among other things that the digitization of industries such as music, movies and more has led to a large decrease in raw materials within those industries. And also that industry has gotten better about using less material for each product created.

Have you reached peak stuff?


Original Submission

Related Stories

Oceanic Shipping Prices Reach Record Low 8 comments

On 10 February, the Baltic Dry Index fell to the lowest level since its inception in 1985. The index reflects the cost of transporting solid, bulk (non-containerised) materials—such as ores, coal, or grain—by sea. It is considered a leading economic indicator. The decline is attributed to decreased demand for raw materials.

It reached its peak of 11,793 on 20 May 2008. The 10 February low was 290.

Related: UK Uses 33% Less Stuff Than in 2001


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:29PM

    by GungnirSniper (1671) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:29PM (#312263) Journal

    With two storage units and a basement room full of boxes, I'd say so. It's easy to go "Hey that's cool" but not easy to say "Maybe I don't need all those P3 systems anymore." Gods help me.

    There's a correlation with ADD and hording, and trying to fix the former without the latter simply fails to compile. Or decompile.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:32PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:32PM (#312295)

      I have to agree with you. I recently began to do extensive spring cleanings, where if I find myself to not have used something in a year, with few exceptions, I will just throw it out. Last two times I did this I threw out almost half of my things.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:56PM (#312342)

        A rule like that can work but I'd always factor in how much the item would cost to buy it again if it turns out you do need it in future. The size of the things are an important consideration too. So sure, that huge bulky piece of furniture that only cost $25 that you've not used in 3 years, makes perfect sense to go. A $100 tool that you might still use every 5 years or so, not so much.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:14PM

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:14PM (#312352) Homepage Journal

      these are precious to me. But it is unlikely that I'll ever have a home with a workshop again. My mother pays for the storage. What will happen when she's gone?

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:39PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:39PM (#312397)

        What will happen when she's gone?

        Perhaps you should modify your life plan so that you can afford to pay for the storage by the time your mother dies? Seriously how much is a self storage place. If you don't get out of that comfort zone boy have I got a surprise for you in a few years...

        • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:11PM

          by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:11PM (#312409) Homepage Journal

          I get consulting inquiries from time to time. Just today I had a phone interview for what looks like a pretty good contract.

          If I get work at all, I'd make good money, but often it seems like the prospect of working is hopeless.

          --
          Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:59PM (#312416)

            you should put a portfolio on your website

            and also hire somebody to make the website pretty (no web3.0 crap, just better graphic design)... obviously you do embedded work not web bs, but it helps

            • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:10AM

              by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:10AM (#312421) Homepage Journal

              I used to have my resume on my old site, but it lead so many to regard me as a potential employee and not a consultant.

              I'll add a "Selected Projects" list.

              I had the idea that the plain website would emphasize that I was an expert programmer but many tells me that it is off-putting. I can do somewhat better design on my own.

              --
              Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:37PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:37PM (#312602)

            Here's are some jobs that might be worth doing.

            https://www.fsf.org/resources/jobs/listing [fsf.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:23AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @12:23AM (#312423)

          I challenge you to do something that provokes paramilitarized police to beat your head in--out of all proportion to anything you have done and such that your brain now works very differently than before.

          Now, try to find employment.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:32PM

    by Tork (3914) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:32PM (#312267)
    Have I reached "Peak Stuff", well I'm not sure I fully understand the term, but I can say that I make a good deal more digital purposes than I did ten years ago. That's pretty cool in that I have less stuff in my house. For example my last move did NOT involve a huge box full of DVDs. I also like it in the sense that we can carry on a consumerist society with less of an impact on resources. In fact I'm even driving less due to improvements in telecommuting.

    I guess what I'm saying is either the internet is part of my stuff, or it's the reason I have less of it.
    --
    Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
    • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:51PM

      by rts008 (3001) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:51PM (#312373)

      I also reached 'Peak Stuff' in January, but my house burning to the ground reset my 'score'. I know it was peak, due to the fact I can hardly afford to replace immediate necessities, much less anything frivolous, and lost everything but the clothes I was wearing.

      I do not recommend this method for reducing your stuff. ;-)

      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:14PM

        by Tork (3914) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:14PM (#312387)
        Sorry to hear. Hope all ends up well for you.
        --
        Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday March 02 2016, @10:42AM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday March 02 2016, @10:42AM (#312569) Journal

        That really sucks. I hope no one was injured.

        Purging your stuff can be a lot of trouble, but not having the chance to do it selectively? Painful and disorienting.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:37PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:37PM (#312271)

    consumer v industrial usage. Have not dug into it but I bet they took the total they consumed and divided it by the number of people. This statement makes me think that "suggest that the amount of raw materials consumed by the UK economy". I would look to exports probably being down by a similar amount. That sounds like a 'we moved the jobs somewhere cheaper' statement to me.

    Also 2 decent sized recessions and nothing to really create jobs will put a dent in the amount of stuff people buy.

    To suggest this is 'peek stuff' is asinine.

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:57PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @06:57PM (#312285)

      The UK exports obnoxious judges, and images of foreign people, owned by foreign people, kicking balls around a pitch. That's more money and less raw materials than 12 boxes of parts to fix your Lotus.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:24PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:24PM (#312320) Journal

      To suggest this is 'peek stuff' is asinine.

      There is no insinuation that anyone wants to examine your lingerie.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:20PM

      by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:20PM (#312357) Journal

      I think the UK-ONS takes into account Consumer VS Industrial, by simply getting to per-capita tonnage.

      They mention, at least in passing, the depression, of 2009-ish, they mention the drop in UK mining and extraction, and imports, etc.

      Recycling:
      But they don't go very deep into recycling. Scrap steel has been HUGE world wide for some years now, and I imagine its huge in the UK as well. (I don't know when car crushers became a thing, but in the US they will set up near a wreaking yard, and the whole thing will be gone in three months). There are entire steel companies making a living buying up scrap steel, and making new pipe, I-beams etc. They've never refined a truck load of ore in their entire history.

      Post Consumer recycling has been producing more material than industry can use for the last 15 years at least.

      Quality:
      Cars (or a larger percentage of them) reached a long-life status somewhere in that period, where 200k Miles is becoming the new norm. Computers reached a point of long life (and good repair-ability) within that period. That also was true of a some of other household appliances.

      Renewable Energy:
      Every ton of coal offset by Wind/Solar/Nuclear/Efficiency disappears due to their measuring method. In fact its not clear if they take into account Coal replaced by Gas. The same work gets done, but raw materials decreases.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:23PM

      by c0lo (156) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:23PM (#312390) Journal

      I would look to exports probably being down by a similar amount. That sounds like a 'we moved the jobs somewhere cheaper' statement to me.

      Fine when you look at industrial goods, what about food?
      The Guardian FA:

      The amount of “stuff” used in the UK – including food, fuel, metals and building materials – has fallen dramatically since 2001, according to official government figures...
      ...
      The ONS said that in 2000 the UK chomped and burned its way through 188m tonnes of crops, fish and wood, compared with 172.5m in 2013, the last year for which figures are available.

      Now, regarding:

      Also 2 decent sized recessions and nothing to really create jobs will put a dent in the amount of stuff people buy.

      Mmmm... not necessary a cause in some areas.

      Consumption of paper and cardboard began to decline in 2001, the amount of household waste produced by each person in the UK began to fall in 2003, and consumption of water began to go down from 2004, all at a time of rising population and GDP.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
  • (Score: 2) by tibman on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:22PM

    by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:22PM (#312291)

    I feel like there has been a return to buying quality goods over cheaper ones. I want to see consumption market value charted right next to tonnage.

    --
    SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:27PM

      by c0lo (156) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:27PM (#312393) Journal

      I feel like there has been a return to buying quality goods over cheaper ones.

      You equate quality to longer life?

      (mmm... I like quality bacon, it makes quality poop... in about the same time).

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2) by tibman on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:03PM

        by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:03PM (#312405)

        Yeah, you'll live longer if you stop eating the bad bacon : P

        --
        SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Nuke on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:42PM

    by Nuke (3162) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:42PM (#312299)
    FTFA :

    The physical weight of goods imported into the UK has actually risen over the past 13 years, while the amount exported has fallen. ....
    “This suggests that we are becoming more reliant on the production of materials in other countries,”

    In other words, the UK is making less but importing more manufactured goods; not consuming less. Also, the Pope is a Catholic.

    I find it hard to believe that this has anything to do with people downloading stuff instead of buying DVDs. The beer in my weekly shopping would outweigh all the DVDs I watch (or would download) in a year, and I don't even drink much.

    The article is at best misleading and at worst meaningless.

    • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:13PM

      by Dr Spin (5239) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:13PM (#312312)

      I concur - beer looks and sounds much better than most DVDs these days.

      --
      Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
    • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:12PM

      by zocalo (302) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:12PM (#312386)
      Another subtle point from TFA; it doesn't include recycled materials. The UK is really big on this, especially for glass, paper and plastics, so the gross annual consumption of any one or all of those could actually be up, but as long as most of it is recycled then the net would be lower. That said, most people I know don't buy anything like as much physical media, with newspaper sales in particular are well down ("The Independant" was selling 400k copies a day in the '90s, but was down to only 40k when it went online only last month) - which is a large amount of raw material if that's typical. The really big items though are probably coming from more large scale stuff that are not so obvious; electricity generation has more power coming from "free" sources like wind/solar, so there's less consumption of coal/gas/oil in power generation, and we're driving less (particularly in cities with good light rail networks), so less petrol/diesel consumption, water is often metered encouraging frugality, and so on.

      The manufactured locally vs. imported issue is an interesting one though since items usually consume more mass in raw materials than the end product weighs, and in some cases it's a *lot* more. If we now import a good that weighs 100kg but took 1000kg of raw materials to manufacture locally (which is not at all unrealistic if you include water, solvents, and other materials used in manufacturing), then that doesn't truly represent a 900kg saving does it? That 900kg is still ultimately being "consumed" by the UK end user, even though it's being "spent" overseas.
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:34PM (#312411)

        What I'd like to see is figures on the growing and harvesting of food outside the commercial sphere.

        .
        (Meta)
        ...and when people making submissions include links to sites that have script-driven content, [ons.gov.uk] it would be a Good Thing(tm) to mention that fact.
        N.B. Feeding the page's URL into archive.is [archive.is] often end-runs these irritations.
        Including the resulting URL [archive.is] in your submission is another Good Thing(tm).

        Additionally, when a site has as the very first thing on the page "Skip to main content" [ons.gov.uk] (i.e. doing things properly), *do* click that and **use the resulting URL in your summary**.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Squidious on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:51PM

    by Squidious (4327) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @07:51PM (#312302)

    Smartphones have taken the place of a lot of the books, calculators, cameras, radios, stereos, walkmen, TVs, desktop computers, vinyl records, CDs, DVDs, and console gaming systems that we used to buy individually for their specific functions. My teenagers are going to haul a LOT less crap to college than I did back in the late 80s.

    --
    The terrorists have won, game, set, match. They've scared the people into electing authoritarian regimes.
    • (Score: 3, Funny) by SanityCheck on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:13PM

      by SanityCheck (5190) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:13PM (#312351)

      No more Vinyl record collection unless they are pretentious :)

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:00PM

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 01 2016, @08:00PM (#312306) Homepage Journal

    CDs are made of plastic. Plastic is made out of oil. Digital music means we need an increment less oil. We're already seeing an oil glut.

    There are other commodoties that see increased demands, like rare earths for smartphone screens, however I would expect there to be economic dislocations.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by rleigh on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:08PM

    by rleigh (4887) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:08PM (#312348) Homepage

    I seriously doubt that the reduced consumption of physical media has much contribution to the stats. I don't really think I can measure my annual media consumption in kilos, let alone metric tons. Even accounting for manufacturing waste, transport etc., it's still got to be drop in the ocean at the national level. No, this has got to be in manufacturing, and I doubt the per capita stats of polycarbonate and PVC for CD/DVD/BD and record production is that big a contribution.

    (On the other hand, my per capita consuption of ABS plastic, in the form of LEGO blocks, has recently increased by several kilos after I discovered modular buildings and the Ghostbusters firehouse! That's imported from Denmark and the Czech republic though.)

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:55PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @09:55PM (#312374)

    Characteristics of Neoliberalism:
    Tax breaks for the rich and powerful
    Privatization of public services
    Cuts to the social safety net
    Attacks on labor unions
    Passage of so-called "free trade" agreements allowing unfettered capital investment flows (aka exporting jobs)
    Minimal regulation of financial institutions and corporations
    Endless marketization of society

    Neoliberalism views people simply as consumers.
    The system is driving the planet and humankind into an untenable situation.
    It was created by The Few for The Few.
    It is not a law of nature; it can be dismantled by The Many.
      -- David Barsamian, host of Alternative Radio, introducing Henry Giroux (with some tiny edits)

    Terms identified with Neoliberalism:
    Radical deregulation
    Globalization
    Market fundamentalism
    Laissez faire capitalism
    Supply-side economics
    Thatcherism
    Reaganism
    Clintonism

    .
    Robert Reich has served in three national administrations, most recently as Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton. His latest book is "Saving Capitalism: For the Many, Not the Few".
    This week, Reich wrote

    Dear GOP Establishment: Brace for a Painful Reckoning With the Reality You Created [alternet.org]
    you forgot that your workers are also consumers. As you’ve pushed wages downward, you’ve also squeezed your customers so tight they can hardly afford to buy what you have to sell.

    In addition, this week, Reich endorsed Bernie Sanders for President.

    .
    N.B. 23 percent USA unemployment[1] [shadowstats.com] is NOT a "recession".
    (Looking at the stock market^W^W speculators' market and seeing how billionaires are doing is NOT a useful measure of an economy--hasn't been for many years.)

    Note also that that 23 percent doesn't include another 25 percent who are working for poverty wages and have no discretionary spending.
    Most USAians are 1 small negative event away from total financial disaster. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [commondreams.org]

    [1] Not only does the govt's official count not get the numbers correct, they don't even get the trend right.
    Thanks for the "improvement" in the counting method, Bill Clinton.

    .
    Regarding a shift away from petroleum-based media substrates and to bit-based media touches on the economy of the present and future: more BitTorrent, DarkNet, et al and fewer middlemen who produce nothing but who expect to be paid anyway.
    Getting rid of the parasites is a Good Thing(tm).

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:23PM

    by legont (4179) on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:23PM (#312391)

    When similar observations are made about China, the usual conclusion is that Chinese fake their GDP statistics. I wonder where the lie is. Is the West fakes statistics or is the western propaganda confused about China? Can't be honest because it's likely that "less stuff" applies more to China - it is just started the switch to service economy after all.

    --
    "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2016, @10:31PM (#312394)

      Lies or statist-chicks?

      FTFY

  • (Score: 2) by archfeld on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:14PM

    by archfeld (4650) <treboreel@live.com> on Tuesday March 01 2016, @11:14PM (#312410) Journal

    I just sold my house. I purchased the house from parents when they retired 15 years ago, and I had grown up there, moved away and then back when they retired, so needless to say it had a LOT of stuff in it. I contacted an E-recycler to handle the 'old' electronics, and I do mean old. I found several floppy disk sets of Windows 3.0/3.1/for workgroups, and OS2, numerous slackware distro's, a bunch of 10 MB hard drives, the front panel from a DEC pink and dark purple 11/70, dozens of old network cards, Compaq LTE laptops running 386 DX proc's, an IBM orange screen luggable, and my old TRS-80 color computer, a 1st gen AT&T DSL modem, 2 Betamax players, a laserdisc player, more modems than I could count When all was said and done the E-recycler carted away 3 pickup trucks full of old electronics, he was quite happy with the haul.

    --
    For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @02:32AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @02:32AM (#312462)

      Old electronics?

      My parent's house (which I'm going to inherit, Mom is in her mid-80s) has some tube (valve-UK) mono and stereo equipment.

      Also tons of paper in filing cabinets that are the history of the small family engineering company, going back to the 1950s. Anyone know about medium volume scanning (including bound reports that need a page turner) and also software for indexing thousands of random documents? What I'm currently calling "consumer scanning" -- turn into individual scans, perhaps pdfs that have been OCR'd, is not up to the job. Have been in touch with one company that scans warehouses of government records and indexes them -- they are much too big and expensive.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 03 2016, @12:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 03 2016, @12:06AM (#312885)

        It's simple cut the spines and binders out and then use an office quality scanner with a doc feeder. You can probably borrow one

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 08 2016, @06:00AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 08 2016, @06:00AM (#315404)

      Most of that stuff could've been sold or donated. Quite a few people would have liked any of that vintage gear.

      I've got a bunch of old hardware myself, and short of flood/fire/act of god, it will get turned over to someone deserving in the event of my passing or downsizing.

      • (Score: 2) by archfeld on Tuesday March 08 2016, @06:56PM

        by archfeld (4650) <treboreel@live.com> on Tuesday March 08 2016, @06:56PM (#315628) Journal

        I donated a good deal of stuff in the 1st go around, but I lacked time or energy to wait for some meatball that wanted floppies or far, far outdated hardware. As it was we just barely got the place cleaned up, and moved out in time for closing. Had the e-recycler not shown up on the exact day he was scheduled it would have all gone into the dumpster.

        --
        For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @02:12AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02 2016, @02:12AM (#312453)

    *ducks*

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday March 02 2016, @10:51AM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday March 02 2016, @10:51AM (#312574) Journal

      They still have Scotland. They voted to remain under the English thumb. When the king kicked out the Scots who became the Scots-Irish, it seems he did solve his Scotland problem, though his Scottish problem boomeranged when those Scots-Irish moved on to America and successfully rebelled.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday March 03 2016, @01:03PM

        by Nuke (3162) on Thursday March 03 2016, @01:03PM (#313065)

        You've lost me .... What king?

        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday March 03 2016, @03:54PM

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday March 03 2016, @03:54PM (#313142) Journal

          James VI. He relocated troublesome Scots [wikipedia.org] from the lowlands to Northern Ireland to both get rid of them and to mess with the Irish. Those Scots were the product of constant warfare between England and Scotland and were impossible to control. Later, those Scotch-Irish/Scots-Irish lit out for the American colonies and in time came to comprise the core of Washington's army. From that same Wikipedia article: "One Hessian officer said, 'Call this war by whatever name you may, only call it not an American rebellion; it is nothing more or less than a Scotch Irish Presbyterian rebellion.'"

          I'm descended from those people and can attest that the rebelliousness is genetic. Every person in the family has it, especially the girls.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.