A few news outlets reported on a statement by Microsoft Corp. concerning the company's Windows 10 operating system:
The free upgrade offer will end on July 29 and we want to make sure you don't miss out. After July 29th, you'll be able to continue to get Windows 10 on a new device, or purchase a full version of Windows 10 Home for $119.
coverage:
related story:
Windows 10 Nagware Interrupts Live TV Weather Forecast
Related Stories
El Reg reports
Microsoft's relentless Windows 10 nagware has interrupted a live TV weather forecast, urging meteorologist Metinka Slater to upgrade.
The operating system suddenly popped up a box on screen insisting the station's computer be upgraded to the latest version--while Slater was on air describing thunderstorms rolling through Iowa, USA.
The cyber-badgering blatted over her doppler weather radar, which was being broadcast on KCCI 8 News [April 27].
"Microsoft recommends upgrading to Windows 10. Gosh, what should I do?" Slater asked sarcastically.
So, do you know of a case of MSFT update pushiness that rivals this?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @09:03AM
Before 29 july, I want to move to Mint Debian (I already use it on a second computer). Since I am not AAA gamer, there is not crucial software I would need to stick on Windows.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @08:28PM
I certainly hope you don't plan on doing online banking on a Linux Mint machine...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @09:50PM
Perhaps you could specify just how many orders of magnitude safer an OS needs to be online compared to Windoze to be "good enough".
...and Mint got its problems sorted in under a week.
...meanwhile, MICROS~1 users will have to wait until the 2nd Tuesday of next month to get patches--assuming that M$ has actually acted on the bug reports they have received and produced useful patches for your security holes.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @09:20AM
Expect an increase in nagging and sneaky tactics; for your own good of course!
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday May 07 2016, @12:59PM
Windows Update is quite firmly turned off. If they sneak anything onto my machine it's lawyer time.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @01:59PM
It's a good joke. Made me laugh.
Of course you know that:
1. You agreed to whatever they want to do when you clicked "I agree" on the Windows EULA.
2. You waived your right to sue when you did that. Arbitration only, bitches!
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Saturday May 07 2016, @02:42PM
Only USian bitches cannot sue, bitch!
Excerpt of Point 10 and 11 [microsoft.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @02:48PM
Still no grounds to sue since you agreed to the EULA that says they can do what they want.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 07 2016, @08:56PM
In different jurisdictions (than US), you can actually sue.
Because no contract is valid if in contradiction with the local law and other countries have greater consumer protection than US.
And, while you can choose not to exercise you rights, you cannot wave them no matter what the devil says.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @09:55PM
With someone else installing the OS (typical for Windoze), do end users even see the End User License Agreement?
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 08 2016, @08:11PM
If you buy a new laptop you get the EULA screen on first boot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 08 2016, @09:58PM
Ah. The only time I have ever bought a computer brand new, it came with DOS 5.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday May 07 2016, @03:22PM
Oh you think this is going to be a EULA lawsuit. How cute. How about unauthorized computer tampering, hacking, etc.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @03:42PM
The stupid. It burns.
There is no "hacking" or "tampering" if you agreed to let them do it in the EULA!
Obviously you are one of the useless twits who never read before agreeing.
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday May 07 2016, @04:06PM
if you agreed to let them do it in the EULA!
Yep, try to enforce your EULA. Especially in a foreign country. You realize that has never been done, right? I think a judge with any sense would rule that I did not agree 10 years ago to suddenly have my OS changed and my activity monitored when I bought a computer with a pre-installed OS. A judge might think that the fact that I specifically took steps to turn OFF said "update" capabilities is a pretty clear indicator of my intentions on this matter. Microsoft, on the other hand, also has pretty clear intentions when trying to hide behind an EULA 10 years ago that never envisioned today's situation. There's a limit to what you can get away with.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 07 2016, @04:56PM
At about Windows 7, Microsoft made the EULA a Patent License, rather than a Copyright license. Patents are stronger than copyright in that independent development is no longer a defence.
That way, you no longer have to clicks "agree". Also, Microsoft get paid either way, whether your deivce ships with Linux or Windows [groklaw.net].
(Score: 2) by Bogsnoticus on Sunday May 08 2016, @02:13AM
You do realise that the EULA is invalid in a horde of countries outside of the USA?
It comes down to the fact that what is written in the EULA amount to additional terms and conditions of the sale, which legally MUST be produced to the consumer, prior to the point of purchase. The fact that consumers do not encounter it until well afterthe point of sale, renders the EULA invalid, and any attemtps to enforce it are illegal.
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Saturday May 07 2016, @08:37PM
I expect it to go the other way, way until just after the deadline, auto-install Win 10, and then auto-charge for it.
Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bitstream on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:16AM
want to make sure you don't miss out
Hilarious..
I have some rotten meat. Make sure to come by to eat it before it runs out of stock! Hey it's even free of charge ;-)
Makes you wonder how the nagging paradigm will change on July 29. Because now they can't install it for free.. so will computers get an upgrade anyway and in essence become "We upgraded your computer for free, now you need to pay us $200 to continue to use it".
(Score: 2) by Marand on Saturday May 07 2016, @07:04PM
so will computers get an upgrade anyway and in essence become "We upgraded your computer for free, now you need to pay us $200 to continue to use it".
Isn't there precedent in place already to discourage that? I vaguely recall a similar scam once being popular in the US where someone would ship goods to people first, unrequested, then later attempt to invoice them for the unwanted goods. I believe the end result was enactment of law essentially saying that if you didn't choose to purchase it, they can't bill you retroactively.
Of course, that just means they can't make you pay if it happens; doesn't mean they can't do it at all. After all, it might help MS's w10 user base some more.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday May 08 2016, @02:25AM
Isn't there precedent in place already to discourage that? I vaguely recall a similar scam once being popular in the US where someone would ship goods to people first, unrequested, then later attempt to invoice them for the unwanted goods.
They still attempt this, I'm guessing they are successful often enough that they keep doing it. It usually involves copier toner cartridges, they call hotels and offices and ask what model copier they have and the name of the person speaking to them. Then they ship a toner cartridge, wait long enough so that it is likely to have been put into use, then send an invoice for an outrageous amount claiming it was ordered by the person they spoke to on the phone. If the invoice is not paid they call demanding payment. At that point you should tell them to fuck off you don't order cartridges that way and if we did not from them. They ask if you received it, you tell them yes, they then ask you to ship it back, you tell them no and thanks for the free toner cartridge. They have no other recourse at that point. If enough people screwed them instead of allowing themselves to be screwed by them, these scams would stop. Of course, if people didn't apparently enjoy actively allowing themselves to be screwed (not the good kind of screwed either) our political situation would be a lot better as well...
(Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday May 08 2016, @06:04AM
I haven't personally encountered that happening, but I'm not surprised. I think the law just protects consumers from legal retaliation if they don't pay for the item they didn't purchase, so that if someone tries the bullshit you can keep the item and the scammer has no legal recourse; they gambled on stupidity and lost. Doesn't mean they can't still try, hoping for a sucker; they just have no leg to stand on if the scam attempt doesn't work out.
The good news (hopefully) is that I don't think MS would actually try doing anything of the sort to reluctant users just because of the shaky legal standing and existing precedent against that sort of billing scam. At least, I really hope someone has the sense to nix any ideas of the sort...
(Score: 2) by bitstream on Sunday May 08 2016, @06:30AM
If someone is willing to bet the legal fees and get a legal ruling on this. Then Microsoft may be out of legal recourse to demand license fees for any involuntarily upgraded computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:22AM
We’re pleased to see Windows 10 become one of the largest online services in less than a year.
( https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/05/05/windows-10-now-on-300-million-active-devices-free-upgrade-offer-to-end-soon/ [windows.com] )
Maybe it will run emacs...
But, being honest, I'll probably move some old win7 boxes over. If you can get the drivers working and strip down all the crap, win10 has a smaller RAM footprint including the built-in anti-virus service. Also, the updater doesn't spike and throttles the CPU and RAM like it does with win7 and 8 meaning bulk upgrades fail less often. Important features when you only power the machine once or twice a month to scan documents and test cross-compiled code to make sure your commits aren't breaking stuff for other people before pushing.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by bitstream on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:36AM
I read that those updates tend to show up regardless of what you are doing and bog down the machine for long periods of time. And that it will require reboots etc. Workflow interruption if there was one. Then there's the cesspool of spying a la "telemetry".
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday May 07 2016, @12:41PM
Like I said, the win10 updater has less overhead from what I've personally experienced.
Telemetry wise, nothing really changed. You couldn't trust Microsoft then, and you can't trust them now.
compiling...
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @01:20PM
The updater of course has less overhead due to win10 being a relatively new OS.
It's the same thing for every windows release: after a number of service packs and patches the update service will begin to slow down; even win7 was pretty snappy when it was fresh.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @02:34PM
"You couldn't trust Microsoft then, and you can't trust them now."
So your logic is: Microsoft has never been trustworthy but despite there being some decent alternatives that you could try...fuck it, let's do this Windows thang a bit longer! I mean, I don't get it but if that's working for you then groovy. I did read that MS blog you linked and have a few thoughts regarding their bullet points.
Cortana, the personal digital assistant in Windows 10, has helped answer over 6 billion questions since launch.
So...the search/spy thingy that we forced on everyone, and have since added restrictions to ensure it only uses Bing, is being used. We knew we couldn't compete so we locked you in to our service and called it a success!
People are playing games on Windows 10 more than ever before
The more we forcibly take over machines by nagging and tricking people with malware-like behavior, the better our numbers look...it's amazing! Are we not awesome?
Apps that come with Windows 10, including [...] are seeing millions of active users each month
We included a bunch of apps that are super difficult to remove and sometimes magically reinstall themselves if you do manage to get rid of them -- and they're getting used! The best part is that they're only slightly less bad than that vendor supplied shit-ware you could never remove and eventually learned to tolerate...
And, the Windows Store continues to grow daily with new Universal Windows Platform apps like Facebook, Instagram, and Facebook Messenger; updated UWP apps from Vine, Hulu, Netflix and Twitter; and popular PC games including Rise of the Tomb Raider and Quantum Break.
OMG! OMFG!!!!!1!!1! Our walled garden is the new Apple circle-jerk and we're sooooo proud of it girlfriend! We've got this whole new generation of idiot, kool-aid drinking, green devs who haven't lived long enough to know where this road leads and we've convinced them to write apps that could have been downloaded and installed normally, but are instead locked within our exclusive meat grinder where we can sucker them out of a larger percent of their earnings and force them to play by our ever-changing rules! Soon only signed apps from our store that saves every fucking bit of your data to our cloud will be the new norm and...PROFIT BITCHES!!!
I mean seriously, what's not to love? I've got a raging boner just from writing this comment... =3
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @04:27PM
I think you missed the point. Yeah, he or she doesn't trust Windows and doesn't use it as a primary OS but still needs it to do certain tasks. Seems rational to me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @05:54PM
See, that's the problem. Sometimes you have to accept some inconveniences in order to take a stand against some injustice, like software that does not respect your freedoms. If you keep using the software, what lesson are they going to learn?
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Saturday May 07 2016, @04:36PM
"We included a bunch of apps that are super difficult to remove and sometimes magically reinstall themselves if you do manage to get rid of them -- and they're getting used! The best part is that they're only slightly less bad than that vendor supplied shit-ware you could never remove and eventually learned to tolerate..."
And how is this different from the Android or iOS system on your phone?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @05:57PM
It's bad in both of those cases, too. What was your point? 'Y is bad? But X does Y too, so it can't be bad!'?
By the way, I don't have a cellphone, since I don't like carrying around a tracking device. Not to mention that very few cellphones, if any, actually respect your freedoms (i.e. run 100% free software).
(Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 07 2016, @06:00PM
Telemetry to actually measure the result?
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday May 07 2016, @03:01PM
win10 has a smaller RAM footprint including the built-in anti-virus service
Then why was my laptop four times as slow at doing anything than before I "upgraded" and after I rolled it back?
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:22PM
After I upgraded, I copied the product key and did a clean system install. I've been doing this to every windows "upgrade" and service pack since windows 98 second edition.
Otherwise, I pretty much striped away anything and everything Microsoft added to the OS post XP. I started off with the built in apps:
http://www.howtogeek.com/224798/how-to-uninstall-windows-10s-built-in-apps-and-how-to-reinstall-them/ [howtogeek.com]
I run a local account rather than an MS account so I'm guessing lots of crap doesn't get turned on automatically. I capped all the search stuff by limiting search to just the start menu folders. I installed 7zip, libreoffice, VLC, Firefox and sumatrapdf. I even replaced the calculator with speedcrunch. I opted out of all the telemetry. I disabled all the networking stacks except the ipv4 and 6.
I might have missed a few more things, but if you went through that and still came out with win7+anti virus on top, my hat's off to you.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday May 07 2016, @07:17PM
Yea, that very first line from the press release you quoted is why I will never install that thing. I din't want an 'online service' when they were bundling MSN and I don't want one now when they have grafted it into the OS. And you can bet the monthly fees are coming.
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Saturday May 07 2016, @07:21PM
That's not a feature. Not having an attack surface which attracts 50 new virusus per day would be preferable.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:36AM
I hope that they'll kill their upgrade virus by then.
I already upgraded to Linux Mint Debian, but still have an XP and a Windows 7 virtual machine running in it sometimes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @02:38PM
I expect MS will brick all machines not "upgraded." Take yours off-line for that week until the stuff gets cleaned off the fan.
(Score: 2) by SrLnclt on Saturday May 07 2016, @12:11PM
My thinking on this all along was MS wanted to avoid the XP end of life thing from being that big of a deal ever again. I always figured the 1 year was to spook people into doing it while they still can, I expected them to make it permanent around that date. If someone ignored 1 year of nags and free upgrade offers, are they really going to sell more than 3 copies at over $100 a piece for the home version?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @01:45PM
In August they'll start to charge your bank account monthly NOT to upgrade.
(Score: 3, Informative) by shortscreen on Saturday May 07 2016, @07:37PM
Paying Microsoft to do nothing, instead of actively fucking things up, WOULD have been a marketable service in the past. It's too late now, the damage is already done.
(Score: 2) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday May 07 2016, @03:57PM
Will the non-stop nag-a-thon for Windows 8 finally be over? I've disabled so much nagging over the past year that I can't believe it. If I wanted to destroy my computer, I would just blow it up with a hand grenade. Much less painful than a Win10 upgrade.
Yes, Win10 is a tragic mess. I have a sacrificial laptop with it installed. After some update did something to a DLL, SQL Server Studio no longer starts. Something about a missing DLL. The DLL is on the machine, it's just not being found. So I guess I'd have to do a full reinstall. MS isn't even trying to make their own software work now?
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @04:31PM
Try opening the list of installed programs and running a change/repair operation.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 07 2016, @06:03PM
They fired all of the QA people, remember? That is what the big Win10 push is about: they want home users to be the new QA people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @06:04PM
Or we will shoot this dog!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Elledan on Saturday May 07 2016, @06:43PM
I have been a Windows user since Windows 95. Over the past decades I have begun to use lots of professional software which is is either only available on Windows, or runs best on Windows. Now, with Windows 7 everything is fine, yet Windows 10 is like this scary doom scenario.
Windows 10 isn't an acceptable upgrade for me because of a variety of issues, such as its ugliness (everything is flat and unskinnable), as well as its lack of features (control panel, skinning, non-configurable Windows Updates & telemetry). This against the background of Windows 10 occasionally removing or damaging legit software for no good reason. Courtesy of Microsoft acting like a BOFH for all Windows 10 systems. I'm most definitely not okay with any of that.
Ergo I'm still on Windows 7 and will have to see what the future looks like for Windows once 2020 rolls around. Because of the investment in said software I cannot just move to Linux (impossible) or OS X (*snort-giggle*). Maybe Windows 11 will be awesome, though. Who knows?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @08:28PM
Win 7 [tolerable] --> Windows 8 [lolno] --> Windows 10 [hellno]
I don't see how it is reasonable to expect Windows 13 to be on par with Windows 7, at best it is likely to be slightly less shitty than Win10.[aka Windows 8]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:04PM
First, let me say that connecting a Windoze box to a network seems like spitting into the wind.
As I see it, this latest nonsense that M$ is pulling is just more of the same in that regard.
Do your specialty apps even require a net connection?
Like lots of folks, you could run Windoze in a virtual machine under Linux.
...and, if that virtual Windoze install gets borked, restoring a snapshot of that is child's play.
Now you have an OS (Linux) that can connect to the Internet with orders of magnitude more safety than what Redmond produces and you still have your old MICROS~1-only stuff.
You don't even have to reboot to use a second OS.
Additionally, you can now run Linux-compatible apps (for which no Windoze port is available).
LinSmith [freecode.com]
The GNU Electronic Design Automation collection[1][2][3] [google.com]
The KiCAD EDA suite[3] [google.com]
[1] gEDA actually works fine under Windoze, but the folks on the gEDA mailing list got tired years and years ago of *How do I run Windoze* posts and stopped making Windoze-compatible binaries available.
The gEDA guys figure that if you run Windoze and you can't get the app installed from source using a build script, you're going to be nothing but a nuisance on the mailing list anyway.
[2] Heh. In my results, I spotted some of Terry Porter's work.
He's been making his money using **only** FOSS since last century.
[3] S/N's goddamned comment engine is still stripping out quote marks from URLs.
Hint to paulej72 and Buzzard: %20 and %22 are NOT the same thing.
[4] KiCAD, while originally built for Linux, actually has ports to multiple platforms now.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by Elledan on Sunday May 08 2016, @10:03AM
While some apps I use also run on Linux (e.g. Substance Painter, Lattice Diamond), some do not (e.g. Photoshop). Of the apps which do run on Linux, the experienced on Windows is superior. As I am a game, software and hardware developer, I very much appreciate that I get the best possible experience for all the tools I use on Windows. I am not unfamiliar with Linux, having first used it in 1998 (SuSE 6.3), but the fact of the matter remains that Windows Just Works (tm), while everything on Linux has to be a bloody special case.
I am, however, holding out hope that one day FreeBSD/PC-BSD will conquer the planet and get ports for all professional tools. Not with an X11-based GUI, though. Preferably something that's actually modern by today's standards :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 08 2016, @10:58PM
Photoshop
In discussions on that topic, I've heard folks say that there are features in that proprietary app that aren't in GIMP or Krita[1].[2]
Do you know of those features and do you actually use them?
...and the story of the guy who created GIMPshop but didn't grab up the corresponding domain name(s) is a sad one.
That project had serious potential until some louse screwed up things.
[1] About this time last year, there was a Kickstarter to make Krita faster than Photoshop.
I know they got the dough; if they've completed the work, I missed that announcement.
[2] One assumes that the FOSS apps also have features that their users have found useful which makes them preferable to their former use of the payware app.
(I'm not artsy and I never used the $600 app, so I have no opinion of my own.)
Of the apps which do run on Linux, the experienced on Windows is superior
Again, a few specifics would be interesting.
Ever run Windoze in a VM under Linux to see how that feels?
Windows Just Works (tm)
With Redmond's shifting business model, it will be interesting to see how long that remains true.
...and there are just too many instances of a Windoze "update"|"upgrade" borking things to gain my confidence.
The thought of forced upgrades from M$ just gives me the willies.
With M$ overwriting user preferences via GWX and whatever underhanded tactics will come next[3], I'm not expecting to see the number of cases or my apprehension diminish.
[3] A while back, we discussed Adobe's shift to a subscription model and how apps had to periodically phone home to stay activated; lose your 'net connection and you lose the use of your proprietary software.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Saturday May 07 2016, @07:39PM
The bait and switch process was unsurprising. However, I'm amused that it was implemented on such a short timescale.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Saturday May 07 2016, @10:53PM
I don't understand why you consider this a bait-and-switch. Would you mind explaining?
(Score: 2, Informative) by toddestan on Saturday May 07 2016, @11:44PM
Microsoft has always stated that the free Windows 10 upgrade offer was only going to be good for a year. I don't like how they try to shove it down everyone's throats as well as some of the other stuff they've been up to lately, but it's not bait and switch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 08 2016, @03:23AM
Microsoft has an inferiority complex; they always think that their competitors have found the way forward, so they abandon the one they've been working on. Windows 7 was/is a perfectly good OS, that should've been incrementally improved. But Sinofsky and his UX designers kept carrying Macs and iPhones around the Redmond campus and figured that they needed something totally different.
BTW I just read an interview with Sinofsky - he now uses a Macbook instead of a Windows laptop.
(Score: 2) by jmoschner on Sunday May 08 2016, @03:57AM
My plan is to clone my HD running Win 7 onto an older HD (I already have a clone as a back-up on a newer HD). Then upgrade that older drive to Windows 10 before the 29th just in case MS does something stupid to Win 7 (like disabling it).