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posted by martyb on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:17PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the when-'no'-means-'yes' dept.

Two Soylentils wrote with a caution about a new strategy in Microsoft's playbook to get people to upgrade to Windows 10.

If you Click on the Red "X", You're Getting the Windows 10 Upgrade

That pesky Windows 10 forceware box...

This notification means your Windows 10 upgrade will occur at the time indicated, unless you select either Upgrade now or "Click here to change upgrade schedule or cancel scheduled upgrade". If you click on OK or on the red "X", you're all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675

New Windows 10 Nag Screen May Trick 7, 8.x Users

Windows 7 or 8.x users that want or need to hold on to their current operating systems may be in for a very unpleasant surprise. Microsoft has essentially changed their Windows 10 update notification from a very pushy "opt-in" to an "opt-out". The new notification automatically schedules a time to receive Windows 10. Clicking the "X", as many have gotten used to, no longer prevents installation. Those that do not pay close attention to this new notification may inadvertently wind up with Windows 10 even if they did not want it. Very sneaky stuff.

Microsoft has published an offical article describing the changes.


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

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  • (Score: 2) by dmbasso on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:34PM

    by dmbasso (3237) on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:34PM (#349101)

    ... it is resting in peace in my external HDs, as I removed it from my computer because I needed space and didn't actually use it.

    I wish I had the option to buy this notebook without Windows.

    --
    `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by SomeGuy on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:33PM

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:33PM (#349151)

      ... it is resting in peace in my external HDs, as I removed it from my computer because I needed space and didn't actually use it.

      At the rate they are going, they will find some way to get it on there :)

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by richtopia on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:39PM

    by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:39PM (#349103) Homepage Journal

    I disabled the Windows update, so I shouldn't be affected. But I guess I need to warn my parents. What a counter-intuitive feature.

    • (Score: 2) by physicsmajor on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:00PM

      by physicsmajor (1471) on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:00PM (#349256)

      Tell them you're upgrading them to Windows 10...

      and install Linux Mint, one of the LTS versions. It'll run faster and better on the same hardware, tell them Microsoft did the Apple thing and starting using one-word names for programs (Writer, etc. from LibreOffice), and if you must install Chrome on there. Also tell them to click the little icon in the bottom left and install any updates it asks to.

      Then, enjoy not getting called for tech support for years at a time.

      Evidence: I did this personally (except without the deception). The folks were and remain overjoyed.

    • (Score: 1) by darniil on Monday May 23 2016, @04:20PM

      by darniil (6057) on Monday May 23 2016, @04:20PM (#349944)

      Also keep in mind that they may re-push the KB that nags you. I have two PCs that I'm not upgrading to 10. On each of those machines, I've had to admin-hide the update at least three times. It seems like every couple of months MSFT pushes the same KB to my computers even though I intentionally hid them from my updates.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:41PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:41PM (#349104)

    Windows 10 is creeping into computers like ivy. I had to stop Win 10 for a client on Thursday on a Win 7 computer that has never had a single Windows update and has had 'Check for Updates' turned off since it was set up. The Windows 10 warning said it was installing automatically on Friday.
    - The dates of 'Most recent check for updates' and 'Updates were installed' were 'Never'.
    - The 'View update history' was empty.
    - CWX Control Panel found the 'Get Windows 10' running.

    How can this be? Surely Microsoft doesn't reach out to computers on its own, does it?

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:28PM (#349125)

      Why not? It's their property.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:05PM (#349167)

        Because privacy?
        Because stability?
        Because it is not what the customer paid for?

    • (Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:35PM

      by GungnirSniper (1671) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:35PM (#349152) Journal

      Running certain utilities like the Windows Update reset script can also remove that update history data, and I would imagine some antivirus software has tools to reset the settings by user command.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:00PM (#349255)

        They only use it for QuickBooks and I get a call every time it does anything out of the ordinary. They are scared to use it for anything other than QB and only have it connected to the network to be able to print (they don't access the internet from the computer). And yet it must phone home often enough to have received the assimilation orders from the mother ship.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:00PM (#349186)

      I think you mean Kudzu.

    • (Score: 2) by SDRefugee on Sunday May 22 2016, @01:17AM

      by SDRefugee (4477) on Sunday May 22 2016, @01:17AM (#349329)

      Windows 10 is like an STD.. Like a CTD.. Computer-Transmitted Disease...

      --
      America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @06:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @06:11AM (#349429)

      Are you really trying to claim Windows 7 had, from its initially release, a built in backdoor that Microsoft can use to push whatever it wants (and is risking its discovery to push Win10) or a timed program that would attempt to install an unnamed, undeveloped OS at a specific point in time 7 years in the future? Fuck off. I find it highly more likely that your Win7 admins skills suck or you're simply lying.

      Why are you guys modding the parent up?

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:42PM (#349105)

    Do your friends and loved ones a solid and use Never10 [grc.com] to disable the Win10 upgrade.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by SomeGuy on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:18PM

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:18PM (#349122)

      Do your friends and loved ones a solid and use Never10 to disable the Win10 upgrade.

      I've also seen recommendations for GWX Control Panel [ultimateoutsider.com]

      But I should point out that most of the people affected by this are, quite ironically, those who don't want to or are afraid to change their machines around or install stuff.

      Honestly, with all this abuse I seriously wonder why they even bother to even ask users in the first place? Or why they bothered with a cut-off date.

      It would be interesting to see the numbers if anyone at all actually buys Windows 10 Retail after this fiasco is over.

      BTW, someone needs to tell Microsoft that 1998 called. They want their "click here" dialog box hyperlink back. :P

    • (Score: 2) by Anne Nonymous on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:48PM

      by Anne Nonymous (712) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:48PM (#349223)

      Whenever someone says "do a solid" I always image they mean "take a crap".

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:25PM (#349293)

      Do your friends and loved ones a favor and convince them to use software that respects their freedoms. [gnu.org] No version of Windows does this, and neither do Macs. Until this happens, you will have to suffer under your proprietary software overlords.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:45PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @03:45PM (#349106)

    *knock on the door*

    "Who is it?"

    Hacker, ma'am.

    "What do you want?"

    I came here to upload all your private data to some server in Eastern Europe, download some porn, and install nasty hooks into your operating system.

    "Are you sure you're not a Windows 10 upgrader?"

    No, no. I just want to make your machine an unwitting participant in our growing botnet so we hack banks and other businesses.

    "But you're not going to install Windows 10, are you?"

    No! I'm in the malware business. We are professional criminals. Dmitri is my name, and my friend is Mikhail.

    "Oh all right.... come in."

    *works at lady's PC for awhile*

    Ma'am, congratulations on your new Windows 10 PC. You're going to love your new digital assistant, Cortana, and the unified user experience that looks and works the same on your desktop as it does on your Windows phone...

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Non Sequor on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:32PM

      by Non Sequor (1005) on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:32PM (#349127) Journal

      What's a window phone?

      --
      Write your congressman. Tell him he sucks.
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:19PM (#349143)

        What's a window phone?

        They're like a unicorn, but make believe.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Dunbal on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:07PM

        by Dunbal (3515) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:07PM (#349191)

        I have one. And apart from a really nice camera it comes with a huge advantage. I can forget it or leave it absolutely anywhere and no one will steal it. In fact once a mugger stole it from me by mistake on the subway and then caught up with me, apologized and gave it back to me.

        • (Score: 2) by ragequit on Sunday May 22 2016, @01:22PM

          by ragequit (44) on Sunday May 22 2016, @01:22PM (#349522) Journal

          My company-required Blackberry is the same way...

          --
          The above views are fabricated for your reading pleasure.
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:16PM

    by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:16PM (#349121) Journal

    Our laptop with Windows 8.1 just started upgrading to Windows 10 while we were AFK. Came back to find a progress screen showing 35% done. Shut the computer off in the midst of this, as there seemed not to be any cancel button or anything.

    On boot, it announced that the upgrade to Windows 10 had failed and it was restoring the previous version of Windows. That went okay. Then I went into the Windows Update interface and sure enough, in the list of recommended upgrades was Windows 10, already checked. I unchecked and hid it. On reboot, Windows 10 was once again visible and checked, so I unchecked and hid it again. 2nd time seems to have stopped it.

    But there's no trusting Microsoft to listen to customers, or take no for an answer. They sure didn't listen when users screamed about them taking away the start button, only half assed bringing it back in Windows 8.1.

    I can't believe any smart tech company would be so stupid as to push such a risky move so hard. Upgrading is a major move, with all kinds of potential to break all sorts of things that were working fine. No sane sysadmin would pull a stunt like that on working equipment, not without extensive testing of the hardware first, more like not at all because there often aren't resources or time available to do it properly. It's risky enough just applying one little patch, and I never did so unless it fixed a problem we were currently having, and even then I would wait as long as possible. No, the smart way to do an OS upgrade is as part of a migration to new hardware, then swap servers when everything tests out and appears to be working. Easy to swap back if there is a major problem.

    But then, MS has repeatedly shown that they can be really stupid. They aren't a smart tech company. The sorts of mistakes MS makes are rather characteristic. They're basically an unenlightened dictatorship, and when the dictator makes the wrong call, he sometimes doubles down. Has the gall to try to say he's right and it's the rest of the world that is wrong and stupid. They also have serious religious hangups over the business model of selling copies. Why else would they get in bed with a bunch of reviled music businesses, actually listen to their cretinous logic as if music industry executives understand technology better than MS? MS wants to hang with the RIAA and MPAA, and Big Pharma and Monsanto too.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:25PM

      by Nerdfest (80) on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:25PM (#349124)

      You're mistaking evil for stupid. In this case the old "Never attribute to malice" does not apply.

      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:55PM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:55PM (#349135) Journal

        Of course the rule still does apply. Microsoft's behaviour in this case cannot be adequately be explained by stupidity, therefore malice may be assumed. The rule works as intended.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:59PM

          by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:59PM (#349301)

          Of course the rule still does apply. Microsoft's behaviour in this case cannot be adequately be explained by stupidity, therefore malice may be assumed. The rule works as intended.

          Actually, microsoft's current behaviour can only be explained by great malice AND gross stupidity.

          --
          It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
      • (Score: 2) by Gravis on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:20PM

        by Gravis (4596) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:20PM (#349208)

        at this point in the game, you are the stupid one if you don't realize that this is malice.

        • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:45PM

          by Nerdfest (80) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:45PM (#349222)

          You all misunderstand me. The expression is "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence" or something of the sort. This is in no way incompetence. I haven't used Windows at home for ten years now, I'm well aware of Microsoft's level of Evil.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 23 2016, @12:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 23 2016, @12:08PM (#349867)

        Defensive sociopathy as historical example of emperor Claudius taught us:

        ALWAYS attribute to malice, but pretend to attribute to ... benign omission. Never hold grudge nor vengeance. There is no point in spilling your beans to probable enemy of yours, keep your "naivety" as a cover until they force you out in the open, and by then make sure you have plan B and aces up your sleeve. If they catch you successfully evading their "hit" again, try to persuade THEM to attribute that to lucky coincidence. Never consider others dumb in "harmless" sense of that word, only in the "useless" sense - if they are really dumb or play dumb, then they are useless for you either way.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:47PM

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:47PM (#349133)

      I can't believe any smart tech company would be so stupid as to push such a risky move so hard. Upgrading is a major move, with all kinds of potential to break all sorts of things that were working fine.

      I have a suspicion that this is our first real taste of Microsoft's "rapid release" plans. Basically, these recent actions from Microsoft make it clear Windows is no longer a platform for which developers can reliably write very long term supported software.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Dunbal on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:09PM

        by Dunbal (3515) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:09PM (#349194)

        The don't want anyone writing software anymore. They want to lease you their "cloud" software.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by gmrath on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:22PM

          by gmrath (4181) on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:22PM (#349243)

          It's not so much about folks writing software just so long as the folks that do write software work for them. It is more about Microsoft and I'll bet many other companies, too, wanting to generate predictable revenue streams to impress investors. So they no longer want to make a one-time sale, but want to sell subscriptions ("software as a service"). This has been the dream for years, no doubt: How to channel EveryOne into monthly or yearly subscriptions, not merely businesses paying license fees. The downside for end users: you don't make a payment, your software won't work and your data is in limbo, unreachable, held hostage. Another big downside for you, the user: Microsoft apparently can upload anything it wants from your system so they can "improve the user experience" which likely means your data will be sold to advertisers without your permission so they can send "targeted ads" and the like to you that you can't stop, et cetera, et cetera. Can't think of any upside for the end user.

          But how they are going about this seems heavy-handed. Sort of like a couple of big guys in dark suits, fedoras, and sunglasses walking into your business one night, looking around and saying, "Really nice place you got here. Be a real shame if something bad happened to it. For a monthly fee, we'll see that it stays nice and safe. Oh, and by the way, one of the boys will stay here to see who comes and goes; maybe we'll approve and maybe we won't. Don't like it, well . . . "

      • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:08PM

        by JNCF (4317) on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:08PM (#349232) Journal

        Maybe they're figuring that Windows developers will mostly switch to using the shiny new built-in Ubuntu environment, which should have way fewer breaking changes over time?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:14PM

      by Whoever (4524) on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:14PM (#349235) Journal

      I can't believe any smart tech company would be so stupid as to push such a risky move so hard. Upgrading is a major move, with all kinds of potential to break all sorts of things that were working fine.

      I can't believe the amount of abuse that Microsoft users are prepared to take from Microsoft and just think that it is normal.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MostCynical on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:07PM

        by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:07PM (#349260) Journal

        Just like abused spouses, stuck, trying not to be noticed, trying not to upset the violent partner, lest they get another beating..

        --
        “I've learned from experience that asking politely never works unless you have the upper hand.” Daisuke Aramaki, GIS:SAC
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:36PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:36PM (#349128)

    When your phone rings and the guy on the other end with a middle eastern accent says "This is windows calling, your computer have a virus"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:17PM (#349141)

      I love those calls. I always say, "Hold on just a sec" then setup the voice recorder and pretend that I don't know I'm using GNU+Linux.

      • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:36PM

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:36PM (#349153)

        I don't bother pretending I don't know what GNU/Linnux is: the script is only designed to differentiate between different versions of Windows.

        They won't even think to ask if the start menu icon looks like a penguin instead of a circle.

        • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:57PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:57PM (#349160)

          One of my coworkers has a box that he went to some software download site and installed the top 10 or 20 downloads installed with default settings. So when someone calls, he gives them access to that box. So fun to see them battle real adware crap when trying to do whatever. One of the techs spent an hour cleaning it before installing their own flavor of crapware on it. Another got so frustrated, he asked him to put a blank cd in, burned DBAN on it and then rebooted the computer before abruptly hanging up. Most dick around for fifteen minutes, see no pending sale and delete system files or the documents folder on the way out.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Common Joe on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:27PM

        by Common Joe (33) <common.joe.0101NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:27PM (#349211) Journal

        I do the same except I went a couple of steps further.

        I act completely innocent and incompetent and willing to do anything for them. Meanwhile, on a virtual machine, I put a rotating set of NSFL gore photos on a windowless foreground. No icons. No start button. When they remote into the Linux VM, they can't help but see the stuff and they can't disable it. I only used it once, though. After getting harassed once or twice a month, I sprung this on them. They hung up immediately and I haven't had a phone call in two and a half months.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:43PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:43PM (#349272)

          A recent Fortune QOTD here referenced a globe (model of the Earth), flies, and comedian Bruce Baum's old joke about messing with their heads.

          I have to admit that I've never interacted with one of those faux helpers and I'm not sure I'd have the patience to play the game, but Brad Rodriguez does and he weirded out the most recent slimeball in under 2 minutes.
          Yet Another Telephone Scam Attempt [goodbyemicrosoft.net]

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:41PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:41PM (#349131)

    The thing now updates on its own regardless of setting. God knows what it's sending to MS.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:43PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:43PM (#349132)

    Reminds me of certain freeware that had wording such as, "Do you not want to not install the [spamware] addon"?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fishybell on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:50PM

    by fishybell (3156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 21 2016, @04:50PM (#349134)

    My friend called me up in panic with a "you're scheduled upgrade starts in XX minutes" message on her screen. This individual is not 100% computer savvy, but she does know that she doesn't want Windows 10 and has been successful at not getting it until this. When she said "I didn't click on anything" I assumed there was some new tricky tactic, but couldn't find any news articles about it. I didn't understand what she had done until I saw this. I guess she was at the front line of Microsoft v. The People.

    • (Score: 2) by https on Sunday May 22 2016, @11:36PM

      by https (5248) on Sunday May 22 2016, @11:36PM (#349723)

      My question is, what do we do now for these victims? There's all kinds of programs to stop GWX from working like MS wants, but what do we do to make the upgrade not happen after they have been tricked but before the upgrade occurs?

      --
      Offended and laughing about it.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:08PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:08PM (#349137)

    Can anyone clarify when this update will happen? I have turned off "Recommended" updates on all Win7 boxes and only get the bare minimum security ones. Will it update to Win10?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:23PM (#349144)

      According to this [soylentnews.org], yes.

    • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:31PM

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:31PM (#349147)

      Can anyone clarify when this update will happen?

      This latest push from Microsoft has already started, but the exact time individuals will see the new alert, or have delivery "scheduled" for, is random.

      Will it update to Win10?

      One would expect not, but then again one would expect Microsoft not to have pulled this stunt in the first place. Some reports have suggested it very well may randomly ignore these settings. And like the malware it is, this Windows 10 alert has on multiple occasions bypassed methods that were supposed to prevent it.

    • (Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:11PM

      by Dunbal (3515) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:11PM (#349197)

      I've turned off windows update - period.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @12:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @12:13AM (#349316)

        Those update periods won't stop for a long time, honey.

  • (Score: 2) by fliptop on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:31PM

    by fliptop (1666) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:31PM (#349148) Journal

    My phone rang off the hook yesterday, most asking "What the hell is going on?"

    Luckily, there's an EULA to agree to and if you decline it rolls back to Win7. Crisis avoided.

    --
    It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide.
    • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:43PM

      by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:43PM (#349156)

      My phone rang off the hook yesterday, most asking "What the hell is going on?"

      Luckily, there's an EULA to agree to and if you decline it rolls back to Win7. Crisis avoided.

      Wait, they brought back the "by clicking agree..," (copyright based) EULA over the "By using this computer you agree...." (Patent based) EULA?

      This is news to me.

      The beauty of the Patent EULA is that you pay the Microsoft Tax even if you opt to install a competing OS (because it must use some patented functionality).

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:45PM

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:45PM (#349178) Journal

      It's an incredible waste of everyone's time though, isn't it? How many millions of hours the world over are being lost to this nonsense?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:43AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:43AM (#349414)

        How many GB of windows 10 download data has been downloaded because of this?

        How many people have had their download limits blown by huge GB of windows 10 files in the background?

        Assholes.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:45PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:45PM (#349157)

    This thread has all the sysd bitches on board. Instead of whining about the upgrade stop using the product. Otherwise shut up and get a life. Forced upgrades are a step in the right direction, for a company that spent so long leaving security to the masses. Sure ui simplification is bad, in fact any ui change should be optional. Nefarious companies have and always will need watching. Internet posters will whinge.

        Carry on.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:50PM (#349158)

      ^Mac user

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @05:58PM (#349161)

      "...whining about whining bla bla bla I like it up the butt so everyone else should too bla bla bla..."

      Go back to Slashdot where you belong.

      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:54PM

        by Tork (3914) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:54PM (#349226)
        Actually you both have a point. Based on the last two decades of MS bitching on Slashdot this is exactly what they asked for.
        --
        Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Nuke on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:02PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:02PM (#349163)

      I dont use the product. That does not stop me from whinging however, like I might whinge about my neighbour murdering his children, even if it does not directly affect me. Fact is, I dont like to see MS's being evil and getting away with it any more than seeing anyone else being evil. I hope these bastards are taken to court and have thier backsides kicked to pulp; I cannot do it as as I said I am not a user.

      Were you one of those who said that MS were reformed and good guys these days?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:49PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:49PM (#349275)

        "Were you one of those who said that MS were reformed and good guys these days?"

        I'm sure he was at least one of those that LOVED all of the things Microsoft originally planned for their xbone at the very least.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @11:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @11:34PM (#349311)

        Murdering children is the same as os upgrades? And this is insightful?

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:15AM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:15AM (#349381)

          Murdering children is the same as os upgrades? And this is insightful?

          When you start calculating how many person-years have been lost to this, it starts to make sense.

  • (Score: 2) by bitstream on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:52PM

    by bitstream (6144) on Saturday May 21 2016, @06:52PM (#349181) Journal

    How about a software deamon that check any new files and if they match any win10 installation file they are deleted. That way win10 may never get started unless they change the procedure and install on the fly which is risky.

    Another one is to add the installation files to the antivirus software identifier database.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:02PM (#349189)

      Another one is to add the installation files to the antivirus software identifier database.

      Justifiably, as Win10 is one of the stubbornest pieces of malware currently in circulation.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:09PM

      by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:09PM (#349193)

      IMO, when you start considering your OS malware, it is time to find another OS.

      If you have software that won't work without it, you have to re-evaluate how important that software actually is to you.

      If you have hardware that won't work without that crappy software, you may want to consider putting the manufacturer on your shit-list (though that may be of limited used due to ongoing industry consolidation).

      • (Score: 2) by bitstream on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:16PM

        by bitstream (6144) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:16PM (#349203) Journal

        I know all this. Sometimes one just have to deal with these asswares. Not much to do (yet).

      • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:46PM

        by jmorris (4844) on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:46PM (#349252)

        Find me some accounting software that can submit payroll data electronically and we can talk. My problem of late isn't with the accounting VMs wanting to update to Windows 10... it is getting Windows Update to run at all. I have the list of evil updates (Win10 and the 'telemetry' updates) to avoid but none of the three will update at all. Some display the list of available updates but will just spin for days at 0% downloaded. Did all of the fixes suggested, even the really insane ones and nothing works. I hope that once the deadline for the free upgrade to 10 passes they will stop being such assholes.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @12:06AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @12:06AM (#349314)

          Find me some accounting software that can submit payroll data electronically and we can talk.

          Hire someone to create Free Software that will do what you want. Right now, people seem to be falling into the sunk cost fallacy trap, where they are forever abused by Microsoft. Maybe if a number of businesses pooled their resources, they could end this situation.

          To be honest, having my data stored by companies that use proprietary software is unsettling, even though I don't use the software myself. That really has to stop.

        • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:06AM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:06AM (#349378)

          Quickbooks supported Redhat Linux about 10 years ago, but no more.

          I opted to stay with washing dishes rather than trying to support Machines running windows after looking into that very question.

          I can not in good conscience recommend Windows for anything.

          However, If they are not able to get their work done, I can't exactly recommend alternatives either.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:13AM (#349449)

        IMO, when you start considering your OS malware, it is time to find another OS.

        What do you mean, start? The first time I heard it, it was "Windows 95 is a virus", though that's probably a combination of my age and the timing of the rise of the Internet. I'm forced to assume those comparisons started somewhere around the time when DOS 1.0 went gold.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:17PM (#349239)

      GWX Control Panel does this (as I'm sure other utilities do).

      • (Score: 2) by bitstream on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:35PM

        by bitstream (6144) on Saturday May 21 2016, @08:35PM (#349248) Journal

        Now we just need a compiled file identifier list to screw win10 on a large scale then ;)

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @09:45PM (#349273)

      "That way win10 may never get started unless they change the procedure and install on the fly which is risky."

      Dude. That's exactly what they ARE doing. They've changed the procedure to auto-schedule your upgrade to windows 10. Essentially "on the fly". If you weren't looking at the PC when it was giving you the warning, it'll certainly look "on the fly" to you. (And since we're seeing people "choose" to upgrade to Windows 10 while streaming, while giving you the news, while (etc etc), I'm sure they weren't exactly prepared for it.

      • (Score: 2) by bitstream on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:40AM

        by bitstream (6144) on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:40AM (#349412) Journal

        My concept of on the fly is to upgrade without first downloading the installation files. But if the storage of those installation files are prevented in every way, then the upgrade can't get of the ground.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by inertnet on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:28PM

    by inertnet (4071) on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:28PM (#349213)

    I've lost a lot of time lately to people who claimed they'd never consented to Windows 10 but got it like a virus anyway. There's a one month roll back option, but you have to use the new W10 full screen settings application instead of the one you're used to to find it:
    http://windows.microsoft.com/lo-la/windows-10/going-back-to-windows-7-or-windows-81 [microsoft.com]

    If it’s been less than a month since you upgraded to Windows 10, you can go back to your previous version of Windows by going to Settings > Update & security > Recovery and selecting either Go back to Windows 7 or Go back to Windows 8.1. This won't affect your personal files, but it will remove any apps you installed after the upgrade to Windows 10

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:33PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21 2016, @07:33PM (#349215)

    Does anyone know if you upgraded to Win10 previously, and, then reverted back to Win7; will it remember the setting?

    Helped out a friend who wanted to go back because there computer couldn't handle Win10. I'm worried Microsoft won't honor the downgrade setting, and try again.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:27AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:27AM (#349476)

      https://www.grc.com/never10.htm [grc.com]

      Yes. Install Never10.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:13PM

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:13PM (#349284) Journal

    I work for a small independent PC repair place, and as of a couple of days ago we got absolutely flooded with people saying their machines had begun upgrading to Win10 without their permission. Half the time the downgrade either doesn't work right or, and this is the really bizarre part, *seems* to work and then insists that the now-restored Windows 7 isn't genuine. It almost looks like MS is doing some kind of non-reversible conversion of the Win7 license key.

    This is evil as hell. We're installing Never 10 on every single Win7 and Win8.x machine that comes in here, and Shut Up 10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10) on anything that's already been infected.

    The worst part of this, though, is that almost everyone is as clueless about computers as, say, I am about the inner workings of a nuclear submarine. And trying to explain what MS is doing to them makes them look at me like I'm some kind of pants-wetting crazy cat lady or something. They understand almost none of what I'm telling them, and what they DO understand sounds like, in the words of one of them, "What the damn Stasi did to my family in the 80s." It's almost as if MS has completely torn out all the stops, secure in the knowledge that NO ONE will believe it when someone in the know tells them exactly what's going on under the hood.

    And hey Microsoft, I hope you're fucking reading this: we're a Linux shop and whenever possible users ALSO get a KDE Plasma 5.x desktop that looks and acts more like Windows than your God-awful hellspawn spyware has in almost half a decade, and they LOVE it. Keep this shit up, Nadella and co.; you are becoming the best allies Linux could possibly have.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:24AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:24AM (#349475)

      I now have people who were died in the wool Windows users asking for help to move to Linux. Right now I put on antiX MX because it just works and because debian went full on systemd.

      What distro/s do you use, and why?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:19PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:19PM (#349668) Journal

        For the ones I know for sure will never ever be updating I have a custom-spun Arch image. It's a lot more stable than you'd expect, and ironically, until Plasma 5.6 hits mainline in Mint, Debian, (K)Ubuntu, etc., it's the best option. Where absolute rock-solid stability is needed we do Debian Jessis with KDE Plasma 4.14. Weaker machines (think HP Stream 11 here) again get a carefully-tuned Arch, this time with LXQt, which I have configured to essentially be "What ChromeOS wants to be when it grows up."

        Some customers like Macs but can't afford it; I remember one sweet old lady on SSI whose 9 year old Macbook died, and she only had enough for a cheap Lenovo B50 and a couple of hours of labor. She got Mint Xfce edition with the TopMenu packages, Docky dockbar, and a custom Mavericks-like theme I'd made as a hobby.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:41PM

    by Gaaark (41) on Saturday May 21 2016, @10:41PM (#349296) Journal

    Methinks someone is getting desperate!?
    Lets see:
    1. Push developers onto Mac and linux
    2. Push businesses onto linux server
    3. Push regular customers to Mac or linux
    4. Fuck self up ass
    5. Profit!

    (Damn... bring back the 'strike' feature so i can 'strike' through #5.......)

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 1) by GDX on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:37AM

    by GDX (1950) on Sunday May 22 2016, @04:37AM (#349388)
  • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:17AM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:17AM (#349404) Journal

    So until then just grab GWX or the excellent GRC never10 and call it a day.

    Here at the shop I've been TRYING to let the Win 7 machines upgrade to 10 so I could immediately roll them back (so the customer could choose to have the free upgrade later if they so chose) and I found out what I had always suspected...Windows 10 is a half assed piece of shit! I used to be able to fricking BRAG about how damned good backwards compatibility was WRT drivers on Windows, but like everything else MSFT completely fucked that up, now I find that a HUGE chunk of systems, despite being monsters with C2Qs and Phenom X4s and just piles of RAM and storage space,will NEVER run Windows 10...why? The network subsystem on Windows 10 sucks ass, that is why! All these systems will run just fine on Win 7-8.1 but if you install Windows 10, even if you use compatibility mode for the drivers? Nothing, its like the hardware doesn't exist.

    So my advice is if it didn't come with Windows 8/8.1? Its a total crapshoot and a good chunk of the Realtek, Via, and Nvidia network drivers simply will never work. Even the ones were it says it installed correctly are flaky as fuck and drop so many packets you might as well be on dialup, its just not worth the irritation for an OS that IMNSHO is frankly inferior to 7/8/8.1 pretty much across the board. The only nice thing I can say about Win 10? Is that it made the cost of Win 8 really cheap and with Classic Shell installed its actually a nice OS.

    --
    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
    • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Sunday May 22 2016, @09:16AM

      by inertnet (4071) on Sunday May 22 2016, @09:16AM (#349457)

      As far as I can tell the W10 upgrade throws away all the hardware settings and does a complete hardware detection routine. So all your manually installed drivers and all your carefully renamed printers are gone after an unwanted upgrade. I've had businesses call me on a Sunday, with panic calls like "nothing is working anymore and the boss is on vacation, please help". No family Sunday for you today, so now I just point callers to the roll back option I mentioned here earlier.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:50PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 22 2016, @10:50PM (#349705) Journal

        I'm talking about installing the drivers AFTER the upgrade, where it acts like the drivers installed fine, reboot and...nothing, either the hardware doesn't exist or if it does exist its constantly dropping connections and throwing packets, so badly that only 1 out of the 6 I attempted could even stay on the net long enough to activate.

        So to all those that try to defend this OS with "But spyware equals conspiracy" bullshit? Even if you remove that argument completely it STILL SUCKS ASS, its buggy, its more likely to break something on update than a bleeding edge Linux distro, backwards compatibility is total shit, and one of the saving graces of windows, the fact that you could use previous drivers without issue? yeah that is gone bye bye.

        I honestly cannot think of a positive thing to say about windows 10 itself, its new "features" are nearly all shit cellphones do better, MSFT still thinks people want to cover their screens in nasty fingerprints to do shit that a trackpad can do just as well, its just an OS that makes no damned sense and with a metric fuckton of downsides.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
  • (Score: 2) by number6 on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:26AM

    by number6 (1831) on Sunday May 22 2016, @08:26AM (#349450) Journal

    The Windows 10 upgrade process requires read/write access to two folders:

    C:\$Windows.~BT  and  C:\Windows\$Windows.~BT

    so, to block the Win10 upgrade (of your Vista/7/8 system).....

    manually create those two folders on your system if they don't exist,

    then download this freeware program Easy File Locker [xoslab.com] ...(created by the same author as Shadow Defender program)


    - download (32-bit version)....http://www.xoslab.com/download/EFL1.5_Setup.exe
    - download (64-bit version)....http://www.xoslab.com/download/EFL1.5_Setup(x64).exe
    - donate.......................http://www.xoslab.com/donate.html
    - screenshot...................http://www.xoslab.com/images/screenshot.jpg

    Looking at the Easy File locker screenshot, you can easily see how it works;

    Add those two created Win10 upgrade folders into its list of monitored folders, and uncheck all the attributes 'Accessible, Writable, Deletable, Visible'.

    Done......your computer CAN NOT be upgraded to Win10.!!

    • (Score: 2) by Hyperturtle on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:45PM

      by Hyperturtle (2824) on Sunday May 22 2016, @05:45PM (#349614)

      Can't one just create the two folders and mark them as read only? Why do we need to run some external program? If we were to prevent writes to the folders, there would be little reason to monitor the status of the folders. Take full control away from admin and any related services and just leave it as read (if not read an execute) and nothing is going to be writing to it. Keep admin as owner so changes can be made otherwise later if needed. Admins can manage folders and files they are unable to access directly. At least, that is supposed to be how my long HR file is supposed to be secured. I'd treat this the same way.

      If it were discovered that administratively defined custom restrictive settings were arbitrarily ignored by an update process, that is quite the vector for attack and would receive just as much outcry about the whole windows 10 thing does to begin with.

      We know this happens with the hosts file -- MS has hardcoded values and does not need to look at the file. DNS blocking for specific updates/purposes needs to be done external to the windows machine itself, and preferably, done on a machine that isn't of the same version or later due to the likihood of that windows machine/server hosting the same bypass mechanisms. Better to perhaps use linux or a cheap consumer router thing that can do dhcp and dns and block or contain static entries for specific FQDNs. (I am not stating that server 2008 or 2012 *will* allow such DNS resolutions even if you blackholed them/entered in fake info-- but I do know 2003 doesn't have the same entries in its DLLs that windows 7 does, and thus is ignorant of such hardcoded IP-to-DNS name resolutions. It carry out administrative action as defined by the admin, as opposed to as defined by MS).

      That all detracts from my original question though -- why can't we create the folders and just set them as read only? I don't have spare licenses for win7 to practice this with, and would have to undo my other precautions to test it specifically.. but I'd feel pretty confident preventing writes to those folders than I would about installing third party stuff, even if it is good third party stuff.

      Maybe I am just bitter we have to take these precautions to begin with.

      • (Score: 2) by number6 on Sunday May 22 2016, @06:33PM

        by number6 (1831) on Sunday May 22 2016, @06:33PM (#349633) Journal

        The setup file is only ~350 KB.
        The installed program itself has two components: the GUI front end (FileLocker.exe - 460 KB), and a filesystem driver (xlkfs.sys - 27 KB)

        The program does not need to run as an always-on service or daemon. You just run the program EXE, configure the two folders to be inaccessible and then close the program.
        Its folder locking magic is done by built-in methods hacking the Windows API in conjunction with the filesystem driver; it does not use the ACL/permissions system built into Windows.

        The installation scripts built into the Windows updates can easily reconfigure file/folder permissions set by conventional means or commands.

        This program (Easy File Locker) works like a white-hat version of a ransomware virus....and the password (if you have set one) is known to you; Read the FAQ page for more info.
        The author is renowned for creating robust 'security' software; his other program 'Shadow Defender' is a brilliant piece of coding and highly recommended.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @09:14PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 22 2016, @09:14PM (#349684)

        This was one of my methods to block updates - use NTFS permissions to Deny write/delete/change-permission access to those folders and it's contents to Everyone. As you say, if even Windows processes can ignore these settings, then it may point to a serious hole in the NTFS drivers.

        I say "was", since this was before I gave GWX control panel a try quite a while back. Certainly possible MS may get the installer to reset the permissions on the folders these days though, seeing as the installer runs at such high privileges.

        The program option is always good for non-technical folk though, as long as you know what it is doing. Hard to say if that applies to an up-to-date patched copy of Windows these days.