In historic move, U.S. lifts embargo on arms sales to Vietnam
The Obama administration announced Monday that the United States would fully lift a longstanding U.S. embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam, a decision that reflects growing concerns about China's military clout and illustrates the warming bilateral ties between the former enemy nations.
President Obama unveiled the new arrangement at a news conference with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang during the opening day of his first visit to the country. Obama emphasized that his decision reflected a maturing relationship and deepening cooperation on security and economic investment four decades after the end of the Vietnam War.
taykon: I noticed the WaPost paywall has kicked in for me as well. This news is also at BBC, TIME, CNN, and Reuters.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bziman on Tuesday May 24 2016, @01:48AM
On the one hand, I think all of our trade embargoes are stupid and do nothing to actually support democracy. On the other hand, I don't think we should be selling or giving weapons to anyone, because that definitely does nothing to support democracy, and is, on the contrary, a huge threat to peace in the world.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jdavidb on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:21AM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:33AM
Have to agree.
Why sell any weapons into that area, when it is a direct pipeline to China, Thailand, Cambodia, and a host of other disgruntled minorities therein.
Do they really need more weapons? Do they even want more weapons, or is this just another pointless grandstanding exercise by a lame duck president-who-must-not-be-criticized?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @04:04AM
Grandstanding? To whom? It's not like he's announced some massive normalization of trade with Vietnam ... because that happened under Bush in 2001 when they got conditional MFN, in 2003 when the vietnamese textile industry got uniquely low-tarrif access to US markets and in 2006 when they got permanent MFN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @01:58PM
Why sell any weapons into that area, when it is a direct pipeline to China, Thailand, Cambodia, and a host of other disgruntled minorities therein.
It's very unlikely that any weapons sold to Vietnam will end up in China, as the two nations are more or less at war over parts of the South China Sea (which is probably why the embargo was lifted in the first place; enemy of my enemy, etc.)
(Score: 3, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday May 24 2016, @01:50AM
the term "fellow traveler" refers to two communists who aren't really friends. The PRC and Soviet Union were also fellow travelers, because they kept duking it out over mongolia.
I don't really know the history but I expect China has been invading Vietnam since the dawn of humanity.
The Vietnamese were never so heavily into Communism, what they really desired was independence. While it's now a nominally Communist country, they are heavily into such capitalist activities as making chips for Intel in Ho Chi Minh City.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:24AM
Chicom invaded Vietnam because Vietnam knocked off Cambodia's murderous Khmer Rouge regime that was backed by China. The Vietnamese slaughtered the invading Chinese fleeing back licking their wounds.
The Vietnamese are worthy people we should do business with.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:48AM
Luke Crawford - no obvious relation - is the owner of Prgmr.com [prgmr.com], a Xen VPS hosting service. His Vietnamese employee went back to Vietnam but continues to work remotely. Luke says he's his best employee.
I have always had a great deal of admiration for my Vietnamese coworkers.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @04:07PM
I caught part of a program on PBS last night which was a documentary on the return of Vietnamese refugees to vietnam after living in the USA for quite some time. These returning expats are now bringing American business back with them and are building Vietnam's economy and trade partnerships with the USA. The major theme is that Vietnam not only welcomes capitalism but is heavily embracing it to drive the economy.
Interestingly enough, the USA is also building a military relationship to ward off Chinese military expansion in the South China sea.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:06AM
... we've had in decades.
He thinks strategically and long term, just the opposite of Trump and Dubya who want to show the world what badasses we/they are.
He's studied history and understands the role of the USA as the world's superpower, or at least the only superpower championing Western values.
And he's not afraid to change decades-old US policy. Notice how #3 is beneficial only because #1 and #2 are in place. Trump doesn't sound afraid to make changes, but he doesn't know anything about geopolitics, diplomacy, or history and what's worse, he doesn't seem to care.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:42AM
Insightful? Really?
This drivel gets rated insightful? Is that you Barack, posting from Airforce One?
There is absolutely no logic in selling weapons or weapon systems to Vietnam. They will never offer the slightest counter to China's strength, and all the posturing Obama is doing in the South china Sea is pointless. He hasn't got the balls to back it up when push comes to shove and pissing off the Chinese more by selling arms at their boarders is not going to help anyone.
There is nothing here of value other than posturing for his legacy with meaningless gestures.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:47AM
Eh? Not even profit?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:52AM
When has the US Government ever profited from arms sales?
Even if the arms sales were to be done by private companies, you can bet not one Vietnamese cent will come into the US. Most arms sales to third world countries end up being funded by YOU and I via foreign aid money paid to the arms manufacturers by the US tax payers.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:57AM
Yeah frojack, there's not much golf or hoops out here so I decided to log onto SN so I could really start to move my poll numbers.
I'm glad you aren't running our foreign policy, and never will get 1000 miles of it. China wants to dominate the southeast Asia through a combination of economic ties (carrot) and military intimidation (stick). If they succeed, they'll have a big sphere of influence on their way to possibly overtaking the USA as the world's leading superpower.
Obama and his administration are looking for ways to make that not happen. They can see that Vietnam, China's ally in the Vietnam War, is not a natural ally for China; China threatens their autonomy, and has going back 2500 years probably. Obama is taking advantage, opening the door to make it difficult for China to set up their SE Asian playground.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @11:25AM
Just chipping in to remember that the Vietnamese were backed by the Soviet Union. Vietnam stayed in the Soviet side after the Sino-Soviet Split.
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Tuesday May 24 2016, @01:47PM
This is the largest reason to arm Vietnam. No country, not even India or Russia could withstand a belligerent China alone. By keeping Japan, South Korea, and now Vietnam and others armed means should China become more aggressive, they may have to contend with a multi-front war. As Germany learned twice, even the strongest continental powers can have trouble sustaining those fronts.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @03:16AM
1. Flag the post as a troll - without answering any of the points made.
2. Profess amazement that it could have been modded up.
3. Call it drivel.
4. Sarcastically propose that may have been posted by Obama himself.
5. Accuse Obama of not having any balls. How could anyone support him then!!?
6. Sum it up by saying the post had "nothing of value" and was "posturing" with "meaningless gestures".
This is a typical right wing post. All sarcasm and dismissal, no reasoned argument.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday May 24 2016, @03:19AM
I'll bet you $100 that frojack didn't mod that post -1 Troll.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @04:10AM
Maybe it is only just 5 out of 6, but it wasn't that long ago that he proudly announced he was just going to troll mod a post he disagreed with and "call it a day." Benefit of the doubt eliminated.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday May 24 2016, @04:46PM
5. Accuse Obama of not having any balls. How could anyone support him then!!?
At least that won't be a problem with Hillary
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @09:12PM
you mean that the lack of balls means obama would be less likely to screw interns, so hillary would like him better?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday May 24 2016, @11:20AM
Of course there is logic to it. The US has been pursuing a policy of containment against China for at least a couple decades now. It's behind the rapprochement with India and its ongoing efforts with ASEAN. When I was a freshman in college years ago I worked for a professor in PoliSci who wrote papers on it then. The policy has gone off the rails with Russia, which we can pretty definitively say is lost at this point, but it was still on under W and his love affair with Putin.
China, for its part, has been trying to circumvent that containment through its involvement in Africa and with counter-moves against America by taking over the Panama Canal and honing its cyberwar and space capabilities.
Anyway it makes perfect sense for the US to be doing deals with Vietnam and the rest of ASEAN. They're the most vulnerable to falling under Chinese hegemony, not only because of their geographical proximity but because there are 300 million more overseas Chinese in those countries where they tend to occupy the highest levels of finance and business (other Asians call the overseas Chinese the "Jews of Asia" for that reason). Remember the East Asian Financial Crisis in, oh, 1997, when Indonesians in Djakarta were rioting and targeting homes and businesses of the ethnic Chinese?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @05:43AM
I don't understand. could you please point out the benefits of his policies?
As far as I can see, the only reasonable thing that he did was to talk to Cuba. But I think that was a push by the US society in general, not his initiative.
I'm not sure, but it's likely that him not standing up to Putin properly in the past is what led to Putin feeling confident enough to invade Ukraine and steal Crimeea. And I'm not sure how strongly he's holding out on the current embargo.
He's pushing for the TPP, which will hopefully fail.
Since we're talking about foreign policy, why didn't he try to legalize drugs? That would have helped Mexico a lot.
I guess he didn't oppose states legalizing marijuana as much as he could have, but I think he could have done a lot more on this front.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @11:24AM
Going off topic, but unfortunately standing down enforcement in states where marijuana is legal probably is the best he could hope for. There's an epic shit-ton of money that doesn't want to see marijuana legal. If you were a drug lord, would you want marijuana legal? You'd probably lobby for more "reefer madness." Just look at how much the DEA fights rescheduling marijuana despite the overwhelming evidence on all fronts that it's on the wrong schedule.
Alcohol prohibition only ended because congress didn't want to lose face by allowing the states to call an Article V convention. I wouldn't look to the president here. Marijuana will likely be the same way. There are already a surprising number of states that want to call one for the first time in US history over other issues as well. One can hope that TPP/TTIP/TISA makes it on the laundry list for that convention.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Tuesday May 24 2016, @03:48PM
Let me tell you why you are absolutely wrong. He continues to authorize more and more drone strikes that have greatly damaged the US diplomatically. He fights his wars indirectly instead of using our veteran troops because it makes him look better at home.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @09:11PM
Russian special forces invaded Crimea. For many days (weeks?), they didn't admit to being Russian. Ever wonder why?
Putin was prepared to pull them out. He was testing us. Had the US Marines suddenly showed up in force, those Russian soldiers would have been nowhere to be found. They'd have disappeared within an hour.
The western world lost this one by being stupid. The USA had promised to protect Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes. Our word is worth nothing. Surely this has been noted by South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan. Our influence wanes on broken promises.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @02:11AM
TFA displays fine, which is why I still go to WaPo, unlike NYT with the cookie tracking. But then I have noscript.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday May 24 2016, @03:24AM
It might be some kind of staggered release, because I have not noticed anything in the past but I did notice a "you have 2 more articles left" message or something to that effect this time, despite having uMatrix (but various scripts were probably allowed). I was warned about the paywall here [soylentnews.org].
These news sites sometimes test layout changes or paywalls on random readers.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 24 2016, @04:59AM
If you let a news site permanently set cookies then you are asking to be paywalled.
But I have a hard time believing any regular on soylent doesn't have good cookie-fu.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Jiro on Tuesday May 24 2016, @03:09AM
The fact that one of the "benefits" of more diplomacy with Vietnam is to get the TPP passed really ought to tell you all you need to know.