You may have heard of civil asset forfeiture.
That's where police can seize your property and cash without first proving you committed a crime; without a warrant and without arresting you, as long as they suspect that your property is somehow tied to a crime.
Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.
It's called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month.
Here's how it works. If a trooper suspects you may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money.
"We're gonna look for different factors in the way that you're acting," Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John Vincent said. "We're gonna look for if there's a difference in your story. If there's some way that we can prove that you're falsifying information to us about your business."
...
News 9 obtained a copy of the contract with the state.
It shows the state is paying ERAD Group Inc., $5,000 for the software and scanners, then 7.7 percent of all the cash the highway patrol seizes.
Related Stories
TechDirt reports
After years of civil asset forfeiture abuse, legislators are finally fighting back. Reform bills have been offered up all over the country. Unfortunately, very few of them have made it to state governors' desks intact.
The Free Thought Project continues
California Governor Jerry Brown recently [September 29] signed into law a piece of legislation requiring police to secure an actual conviction before stealing people's stuff in drug-related offenses.
Civil asset forfeiture has been rightly likened to state-sanctioned armed robbery as it allows police to commandeer cash, vehicles, homes, or any property of value--even if the person is never charged with a crime--and then use or sell the items for profit for their departments.
Police in Oklahoma, for example, recently honed their thievery by rolling out nefarious Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machines, known as ERAD, which can scan your bank account and prepaid cards, and--if an officer believes any balances are tied to a crime--can wipe those accounts dry.
California's new law, formerly Senate Bill 443, quashes this nightmarish policing-for-profit in the exact way advocates of civil asset forfeiture (CAF) reform have been demanding for years.
[Continues...]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:48AM
It's only money. Can always make more money. This is America, land of opportunity, where anyone can make it big like Trump just by being optimistic. It's not like there's still an Obama in the White House or anything like that. Aw shit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:49AM
What happens is you go to your bank and dispute the transfers?
Is all FIAT reversible unless you are the police?
Banks are supposed to follow Know-your-customer laws and report suspicious activity. If the bank does not find it suspicious, why would the police have grounds to seize the funds without a court order?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:55AM
Assuming this gets any amount of publicity, it seems likely there will be either a lawsuit or the feds will step in. Even in OK it's hard to imaging this standing for any length of time (?)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Whoever on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:56AM
What happens if you have overdraft protection and this device sucks so much money out of your account that you go overdrawn by 10s of thousands of dollars?
Unless this device can see the balance of an account, which would seem to be a huge security hole, I don't see how else it can work than just making incremental withdrawals, which have the possibility of making the victim go overdrawn.
(Score: 2) by bradley13 on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:43PM
FWIW, I have an American acquaintance whose accounts were emptied by the IRS, "by mistake". When he complained, they gave his money back. The fact that lots of bills bounced, his credit rating took a hit, and he had hundreds of dollars in overdraft fees, late fees, etc? Tough, not their problem...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @12:48PM
Reading between the lines, this sounds like it might only apply to stored value cards for which there is even less legal protection for disputes than even debit cards.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:34PM
you're probably right and this is just the thinly veiled war on cash. "why would you need cash or cash cards if you're not a criminal"? "we'll just take that then". "now go get on some trackable, controllable money, slave".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:12PM
Only terrorists use cash.
(Score: 2) by Sir Finkus on Friday June 10 2016, @01:40AM
This is particularly troubling, since it's legal to pay people using prepaid debit cards in some states. It disproportionately affects low income people with employers that use this scheme (with kickbacks from the debit card companies, I'm sure).
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Chromium_One on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:57AM
this has to be a joke. It can't be anything else.
When you live in a sick society, everything you do is wrong.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by krishnoid on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:15AM
Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.
There are other words for it, I think.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @10:31AM
Thoroughfare muggery?
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday June 09 2016, @07:06PM
Highway Robbery would seem to be more apt :)
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Thursday June 09 2016, @08:44PM
That... that's the joke...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dltaylor on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:58AM
Oklahoma is now off my travel list on my cross-country rides/drives, and I don't even have a prepaid card, or carry any banking info when I travel, other than a CC with no ties to a bank with money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:57AM
As long as you wrap the CC in tin foil and play static on the radio, you should be safe even in OK.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:29AM
Make sure it's a credit card, not a debit card, and tin foil, not aluminium foil.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @09:44PM
Don't just avoid it, people ought to write to the Oklahoma state governor, the tourism board and such and let them know that reasons like this will cause you to not consider vacationing in their state or doing any business in there. It's when you don't make a fuss that they assume that nobody cares and point to the lack of fuss as proof.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Sir Finkus on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:06AM
"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:19AM
They have a process:
highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money.
That's the process you're due, so there's your due process.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:47PM
"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you."
IOW you are guilty until proven innocent.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:19AM
So, the cops have their own app for stealing peoples' money. Nice.
How long until people who are not cops crack it wide open and run wild?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:23AM
Still needs your card number, so unless you're in the habit of giving your wallet to random strangers?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Sir Finkus on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:37AM
Ever been to a restaurant?
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:52AM
No. I don't eat in restaurants that accept credit cards, because I'm not a rich snooty asshole.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @09:07AM
My drive-thrus not only accept credit cards but they accept the google and apple phone payments. You should try eating at better places than street food vendors ... though my local hotdog cart takes credit cards via Square.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:55AM
In Europe, no one (other than you) ever touches your card in a restaurant. Rather they bring the terminal to you so you can use chip and PIN.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:31PM
In Europe, no one (other than you) ever touches your card in a restaurant. Rather they bring the terminal to you so you can use chip and PIN.
I didn't know Oklahoma was in Europe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:53PM
Some of us Americans wish it was though.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday June 09 2016, @07:42PM
I'll just leave here: [yourdictionary.com]
2. A minor related mention; made as an aside, or afterthought.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:54PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:32PM
Other people are talking about this magickal land called "Europe" where you can ride a bike without having SUVs trying to run you off the road and other fantastical claims.
Just think of all the people who still call up order lines and places orders for stuff over the phone. It would amaze you how many people would rather read off their card number to another person over the phone (and trust me, it's a matter of when, not if, one of those operators is going to start writing down card numbers--and every time it happens all the upper class twits in charge are just shocked, I tell you, shocked! that their minimum wage employees who are working two or three jobs would do such a thing) than place an order on a website. Another secret: those operators are just placing the order over the website.
This is the USA for you. We're backwards as fuck because the people themselves are backwards as fuck.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:32PM
Arguably, the person answering the phone should be entering the order through the company's intranet, or a VPN, which is one step safer than doing it yourself online.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @07:36PM
The big players like JC Penny with in-house call centers are probably different. Maybe. Assuming they even have an in-house one. Just because a company is this size or that size doesn't guarantee that their call center is in-house.
When I was new at that job I'd suggest foolish things like VPNs this and crypto that and had regular freak-outs of OMG they want us to send them WHAT as plaintext?!?!?!?!?
The problem is that this requires the merchant who wants to hire a call center to answer their phones to pay their IT consultant, assuming they even have one and it's not just the boss' nephew who's good with computers and thinks HTTPS is the plural form of HTTP, for a few more hours of work. Sometimes it's just a crying shame when a whole IT department is available to the outsourcing merchant and the liaison doesn't even get them involved. That's just how unimportant these call centers that are just entering your credit card into the publicly facing website are to these merchants.
Since credit card breeches invariably happen for the most non-technical reason of them all, the operator just writing the numbers down while the supervisor isn't looking, it's easy to see why the crypto nerd approach is irrelevant.
This isn't just mom and pop shops trying desperately to compete with Amazon.com. Many of these are internet-based businesses that can't even be arsed to provide the operators with anything other than their public-facing shopping cart.
That's not to say that's the case all the time. It's just the case the vast majority of the time. It's not just merchants either. You'd be surprised to learn which customer service lines are just outsourced operators using the publicly facing website, asking the caller for their usernames/passwords to log in, doing things anybody could do, entering your complaint or request in the public contact us form, etc.
These call centers are located right here in the good old US of A. "Kevin" really is Kevin. He's a taxpaying US citizen. He's a native English speaker. He's a high school graduate. He may be attending college, hoping that he too can get rich by being a techie.
(That $5 wrench XKCD may be relevant, except in this case it's a pencil and some scrap paper.)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:17AM
Any illusion that some of us might have clung to about our government being anything other than a common thug, should now be shattered. Actually it's not just a COMMON thug. It's the most powerful and dangerous of all thugs.
Add the government to the list of other thugs we have to fear every day: muggers, robbers, rapists, thieves, etc. It's no longer tenable to regard that as an extreme view. It is the fool who still thinks the authorities are on our side and can be called upon to help us, who is out of touch.
(Score: 2) by fnj on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:22AM
Just so nobody thinks I am a scared anonymous rabbit, the above post is MINE. I got logged out without noticing it.
When will this shitty system stop logging users out all the time? This was never a problem up until maybe the last month or two. Along with all the system crash screens.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @10:48AM
Friend, I admire your fearlessness, but I'd advise against that.
COINTELPRO still exists, and now they use Stasi Zersetsung [wikipedia.org] tactics against dissidents in addition to trying to drive you crazy by putting voices in your head [wired.com] and giving you odd pains and/or frying the odd electronic or car components with microwave energy beams. [youtube.com]
Since the attacks are covert and mostly invisible, you'll be Kafka Trapped: Trying to say anything about it makes you seem more crazy. They can literally get away with murder. [fresnopeoplesmedia.com]
The worst is when they turn your own friends and family against you via spreading rumors, having authorities approach people you know with an NSA gag latter (or other local equivalent, all large governments do this) and telling them to help attack and slander you "for your own good" by making up lies to convince them "you're a threat to yourself and others and it's better for you to be in a mental hospital"... with the unspoken insinuation that otherwise they'll just disappear you. Your place of business gets complaints from people you've never met. False allegations of crimes are lodged by strangers. There's so many layers to the corruption cake it's not even edible to most people's minds -- they simply can't believe something like that is real, but that's exactly what they want you to think.
Not trying to scare you, but just wanting you to know what you're getting yourself into. Protip: "Tinfoil Hats" are correlated with "Conspiracy Theorists" because they reveal corruption and get targeted by directed energy weapons (declassified PDF of some of their effects). [stopthecrime.net]
Make sure you have a good support network that is informed about COINTELPRO before you go on such a crusade.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:28PM
Not sure why this is modded funny (at least it's modded up). I've seen COINTELPRO tactics used with my own eyes. It's not any mystical-magickal X-Files lizard people¹ (John May lives!) woo. It's actually really quite simple. It's honestly almost boring watching it in play, if it weren't so heart-wrenching watching it happen to somebody who thinks COINTELPRO techniques are just conspiracy woo.
Anybody who isn't familiar with the techniques should look them up to know what to look for. I hate to say this, but accusations of sexual malfeasance are a bog standard go-to technique. There may also be accusations of megalomania and trying to usurp the ideology for one's own (presumably sick and twisted) ends (whatever those may be, doesn't need to be specified for this technique to work). At any rate, sexual malfeasance or no, you really know you're watching somebody using COINTELPRO tactics because of how similar to a Chinese finger trap it is. The more the victim tries to be reasonable and tries to defend herself, the more effective the COINTELPRO tactics become.
They will get under your skin. They will manufacture situations. They will play mind games with you. They will stress you out. They will psychologically abuse you in every passive aggressive way just to try to get you to raise your voice or have an outburst. The Chinese finger trap has sprung. Now they have proof that you're mentally unstable. Because only people who are mentally unstable get upset, stressed, or angry and raise their voices? It doesn't matter. There's no reasoning with it. This is hacking every basic human instinct for social cohesion. When the victim tries to prove to others that she's not mentally unstable, *boom* now she's not even aware of how sick and twisted she is!
Damned fucking gaslighting assholes had the gall to tell her that she "needed help" and give her fucking referrals to psychologists from the first five Google hits for "psychologist in $locality" when she was already seeing one and on psychological medication! And this is the impression the others are left with. A mentally unstable sexual abuser who refuses to admit they have a problem and get help.
*bam* COINTELPRO success!
She nearly killed herself, and I don't think she'll ever quite recover. She still doesn't believe me that COINTELPRO is a thing in actual, real use. See the true power of COINTELPRO. Even somebody nearly destroyed that way still thinks it's just X-Files lizard people¹ woo.
Instead of my standard rant, please, please, please, if you date women, you need to understand what can happen to you should you become targeted. That includes everyone who dates women.
Naturally, I am immune to COINTELPRO, in addition to the obvious reason, by virtue of having already lost my sanity many moons ago! Also, may I invite the person who is going to respond to this as though I was talking about myself up there to come forward and give us a live demonstration of COINTELPRO!
¹ Never forget who the real lizard people are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @04:06PM
GP was modded funny to cover the "informative" mod.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @11:22AM
That's odd, I used to get logged out (not often), but now have stayed logged in for months. Posting AC on purpose.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:07PM
No problems here. I logged in a long time ago, and I've only ever had to log in twice I think. Once, the power was out for a day and a half, when I finally reconnected, I had to log in to a couple different places. Another time, I upgraded a bunch of software, including the browser and the kernel. At reboot, I had to log back in.
You don't think it might be a Windows problem, do you?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:27PM
It hasn't logged me out yet, how long is your cookie cache set for? As to the accidentally anonymous comment, it's only the middle class who don't realize government is a collection of mostly thugs; I say "mostly". The rich and the poor both realize that government exists to protect the rich, who are the real masters, from the poor. If you're rich, government is YOUR thug doing your bidding. You think wars are fought for the sake of the poor?
The US is a plutocracy. Other nations (e.g. Sweden) are not.
Also note that our plutocracy is also theocracy. The national god is the ancient Greek god Plutus, god of wealth. Most Americans pretend to be Christians (and meny actually believe they are) when our national religion is the worship of wealth and the wealthy.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday June 09 2016, @07:03PM
FWIW, I'm logged out whenever I close all the browser tabs ... but if I referesh the page I'm logged in again.
Actually, I just checked, I'm logged out whenever I load the main web page from a bookmark. This is true even if I'm currently logged in on another tab. FWIW I'm using IceDove (Debian's clone of Firefox). I suspect the browser used is significant.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday June 10 2016, @02:42AM
Isn't Debian's clone of Firefox called Iceweasel? The browser I'm using now? Or is there more than one?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday June 10 2016, @05:15AM
Right, sorry. IceDove is the clone of Thunderbird. (I do use both.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:52AM
This would be impossible with Chip and PIN requirements on cards.
Since we're too lazy to enter a PIN in the US, and insist on signatures, they can do this.
I supposed they could use the Five Dollar wrench [xkcd.com] method to extract the PIN, which I guess would mean you'd then be arrested (then taken to the hospital) for "resisting arrest," rather than just be left at the side of the highway with no car, no cash, and drained bank and credit card accounts.
So maybe chip and PIN isn't such a great idea to stop this sort of thing. Then again, the hospitals and private prisons would get an economic boost as well as the police. Instant economic development!
Who knew Sooners had such economic smarts? This might raise them above 41st in per capita income among the several states [wikipedia.org].
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:33PM
Two of my three cards are chipped, and they're the only ones I'll use in a gas station. I will NOT enter a PIN anywhere, and did without a debit card for over a decade because someone saw me enter the PIN in an ATM, stole the card, and empyied my checking account. With a credit card I'd only have been out fifty bucks. But terminals here (except gas stations) mostly use signatures. Gas stations simply ask you to enter your ZIP code for a credit card.
You can steal my ZIP, counterfeiting my signature is a LOT harder.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:55PM
You think anyone looks at the signature or compares it to the back of the card? I have literally never seen that done. PIN is way more secure than sig. It can be changed as often as you want. You are a moron.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:42PM
The issue at hand is the presumption of dispute validity. With the older card-and-signature system, any dispute is presumed to be a valid one in the absence of vendor evidence to the contrary. With chip-and-pin (along with the horribly insecure cross-site "verified by visa"-like schemes), I understand the burden is attempted to be shifted onto the backs of the cardholder under the false premise that since chp-and-ping et al is secure, the cardholder MUST have authorized the transaction.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday June 09 2016, @07:16PM
BINGO
This is why you should refuse to identify yourselves to bankers with your card & pin number. It sounds more secure, but isn't. The reality is that the banker has completely and utterly abdicated their responsibility to authenticate you, and instead will treat anyone who can obtain the pin number as the valid account owner.
Who's fault is it when authentication fails?
PIN: Well, it's the customers fault obviously. They should be more careful with their pins.
BANKER: Well, I thought it was Bob, I mean it looked a like a Bob. Uhhh, no I didn't ask for two forms of ID, uhhh no I didn't ask for the last transaction against the account.....
They've been attempting to entirely shift the burden of authentication away from themselves and to the customer for some time now.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2016, @12:39PM
Whenever I see a teller at my bank I always have to swipe, enter pin, and then show ID. Maybe its the type of account I have or something, but they always check my ID, and usually type the number into the computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @10:12PM
You think anyone looks at the signature or compares it to the back of the card? I have literally never seen that done. PIN is way more secure than sig. It can be changed as often as you want. You are a moron.
A number of years ago I went in to a liquor store at my mother's behest to purchase wine with her credit card.
Not only didn't the clerk look at the card, when I asked her "which dead president's name should I sign on the receipt?" she answered "Benjamin Franklin." That was oh so amusing.
Multi-factor authentication should be required for all credit/debit transactions and, if they aren't used, the parties (the retailer -- or in this case the police -- the card processor and the bank) should all be fined treble the amount of the charge and that be given to the card holder.
Okay, that's enough crack smoking for me for one day. I'm clearly off in la la land.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:54AM
whoever physically possesses the bond owns the corporation, so don't forget where you buried it.
The corporation can open bank accounts.
There are services that will handle the incorporation and other paperwork for you. It will set you back about a thousand dollars a year.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by forkazoo on Friday June 10 2016, @12:02AM
How does this help? They are taking stuff in your possession, including money associated with bank cards. So they could take the bearer bond as well as anything tied to the bank account the corporation can open. And if you are using anonymous shell corporations, that probably makes you inherently suspicious which increases the likelihood of them deciding you are suspicious enough to seize your stuff.
#winning ?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bradley13 on Thursday June 09 2016, @12:59PM
"...If there's some way that we can prove that you're falsifying information to us about your business"
Why, in that case, they could get a warrant, start a prosecution, and generally follows the laws of civilized countries. Asset forfeiture is nothing less than legalized robbery, but at least it used to be limited to whatever cash you had on you. Also of importance: The company that makes this equipment is getting a cut of the takings. I wonder whose election campaigns they have contributed to recently?
Don't Americans have a saying? "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order."
Is it time for the fourth box yet. Not that you should be shooting the police - they're mostly just foot soldiers doing what they're told. It's the politicians who approve and fund programs like this, who urgently need to discover that actions have consequences.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SecurityGuy on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:08PM
Personally, I still think it's time for a lot more of us who find this stuff outrageous to run for office, get elected, and vote idiotic things like this down. By and large, we're a nation of people who complain about things on the internet, but don't actually get involved.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:54PM
it takes time and money we don't have to be in office.
Thus, the pool is small and the other filters establishment elites have in place work to keep you from being elected or achieving any goal.
It's a shame there is no more unclaimed land on this planet. I would vote with my feet and live in Soylentnewsy Land if such a place existed. There's no where left to run, so they expect us to turn and fight. Don't fall for the trap. As soon as you lash out you're easily disposed of. Better to wait for the jackboot to crush a few more necks so you have enough support to prevail. It may mean moving elsewhere or surviving under a draconian regime. Now is the time to be prepared, but never forget that anything can be an excuse for going door to door and taking away your rights. [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:45PM
I've thought about it, but who's going to listen to a short, overweight dweeb without a wife, no kids, no luxury car, no house worth 7 figures?
Ballot box is busted as it is. Not saying I'd get elected if it weren't busted.
Thanks to the internet, the soap box is having a brief second wind.
Jury box was out of commission the moment that knowing about the inherent right of jury nullification became a reason to throw somebody out of the jury selection process.
There really does seem to be only one box left. It's just not quite the right time. As somebody else said, wait until we have enough pissed off rednecks.. wonder if they'll realize there are gays who are libertarian precisely because they knew they couldn't trust the government...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:45PM
Often can't get to the general without going through the soliders first.
The foot soliders _actually_ do the acts too. So yes they are at fault.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @06:06PM
True, but that's highly inefficient. The foot solders won't have any orders to follow if the criminal order-givers are killed in a defensive war.
Government behavior is typically inefficient and stupid, but it can be informative. Take note of all the "decapitation attack" attempts the US gov has used against others for decades - it's one thing they know works on them, so they idiotically assume it works on everyone else.
It's been said that criminal governments will fight to the last dead cop, FBI agent, soldier, etc.; will they fight to the first dead senator, second propaganda publisher, or third head bureaucrat?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @05:58PM
I don't think it's time for the ammo box yet. The US fedgov (and thus many other levels of US gov) relies on personal income taxes for about 75% of its revenue. There are multiple ways to sharply reduce that number, some of which include: changing the number of W-4 exemptions to a high enough number that no tax withholding occurs; working less so that your net income taxation is zero; starting your own small business and simply ignoring the IRS entirely.
Sure, ideas like the above are going to get you labelled as a criminal by criminals. However, with a little bit of forethought, the odds of there actually being a problem for any such individual go down sharply. Don't keep resources in places easily stolen from (e.g., dollars in banks, inventory in customs lockup), plan on keeping titled property until you die (vehicles, houses, etc.) or look at moving such property into trusts, and don't rely on government services (social security, etc.).
In short, the only reason why the literally criminal insanity continues with US governments is because individual people choose to keep funding said criminal government. When government criminals start shooting/kidnapping people who are taking that last peaceful step, then it would seem time for the ammo box - and yes, such people have already been kidnapped, so keep your powder dry.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:04PM
Don't like it? Violently overthrow them.
They allready have banned you from ever having anything naturally good in life (marrying young girls).
Now they're going for your ability to buy consumer goods.
Kill them.
Destroy this cuntry.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @01:44PM
and report card stolen. File a report with the bank and have the charges reversed. I bet they can't fight that without a conviction.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:27PM
Reporting the card stolen when you knew it was the police that took it? That could be fraud.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:56PM
I would say it is the truth. Highway robbery is theft.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:36PM
Why should the fact that the thief is wearing a uniform make a difference?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 10 2016, @01:02AM
Oh I'm sure that is what the cops will say but it will be interesting to see how a federal court will see it. Sure you're going to be arrested but if you stick with it long enough to get into a federal court they won't view that civil forfeiture law kindly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @02:57PM
Such as Google, Bitcoin, or similar.
"sorry, i'm under so much stress from these false accusations and threats that i cant remember my password" ( since it seems that you cant actually refuse to give them up )
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 09 2016, @03:28PM
Did someone patent the toll both and now this is all they can manage?