Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956
A woman who wants to use her dead daughter's frozen eggs to give birth to her own grandchild has won a Court of Appeal battle. The 60-year-old woman was appealing against the UK regulator's refusal to allow her to take her only child's eggs to a US clinic. Her daughter, who died in 2011, was said to have asked her mother to carry her babies.
The mother lost a High Court case last year. She was subsequently granted permission to challenge the decision at the Court of Appeal in London, before a panel of three judges.
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36675521
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Woman Wins Appeal to Use Dead Daughter's Eggs
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:06PM
wtf?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:30PM
Go have a kid, have it die tragically on you, and then you can come back and post WTF....
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:41PM
Go have a kid, have it die tragically on you
her
not like the entire premise is based on the child being female or anything. good luck getting eggs out of a dude.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:44PM
You could murder your son for his stem cells! But that would be murder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:54PM
Yes when my son dies I will harvest his seamen and inseminate myself
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:07PM
Why wait until he dies?
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:00PM
Damn, where IS that ewwwwww mod?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:47PM
Jocasta? Is that you?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:02PM
Nope, would still say wtf. If my daughter was murdered I would never appeal to ensure I could extract her eggs and create a laboratory born bastard child. I would bury my daughter and cry and try and move on with my life. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:06PM
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you shouldn't. "Bastard child"... is that a scientific term? Where's your non-emotional argument against this?
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(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:11PM
Bastard has a clear definition.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:23PM
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The woman knew she was dying and saved her eggs specifically for her mother to use. The issue is they forgot to get all the paperwork in order before she passed.
This isn't harvesting anything from a dead anyone. So no there is no WTF.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:29PM
Yeah still weird. I am going to have to still give it a WTF and insist it is not good to bring a child into the world like that.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:56PM
But why should YOUR PERSONAL OPINION matter? It doesn't hurt you and you have no evidence that the kid will be screwed up.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @12:32AM
You assume that I think my opinion matters because I have an opinion, but I don't think that. Opinions are like assholes, everyone got one.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mmcmonster on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:55PM
The mother is 60 years old. Can she take care of and raise a child to adulthood?
Seems somewhat irresponsible to me.
Unless, of course, she was filthy rich. In which case I would say: wtf.
(Score: 2) by Kilo110 on Friday July 01 2016, @01:11AM
takes more than money to raise a healthy child.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @02:43AM
You're right. It takes a fair number of beatings as well. For that, you have to be healthy enough to deliver the beatings.
(Score: 2) by schad on Friday July 01 2016, @12:41PM
I think the point was more that she won't have the endurance to keep up with a young child. If she's got money, she can hire a nanny to do most of the running-around, and to spell her when she's exhausted. While still spending lots of quality time with the kid. We all know that's not the way it usually works in practice, but it's possible.
Seriously, the physical challenge of child-rearing is the single most compelling reason to have kids young (in your 20s).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:34PM
What Would the Culture Do?
It's not murder, it's not mind-reading, and it's happening with the explicit permission of all parties.
In the Culture novels of Iain M Banks, this would be considered a minor piece of gossip at best.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:57PM
Children need a mother and a father, not a grandmother, a dead mother, and a sperm donor.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:04PM
Citation needed. Maybe children need a little hardship and mental anguish in their lives. If they turn out "wrong", too bad for them.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:07PM
haha, I hate nihilists. I have nothing to say to you.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:48PM
And you have nothing to say against this egg juggling that matters.
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(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:14PM
Children need a mother and a father
Sure, but many don't have that. What business is it of mine whether somebody else has children or not?
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:20PM
I never said she shouldn't be allowed to do it. I think it's weird, thus the "wtf" and I don't think it is good for the child. People make the best of an accidental pregnancy. This child doesn't have to be born and I think it is the better decision not to. Maybe the mother will come to her senses when she gets over the shock of losing her daughter.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:28PM
Given a chance to live, the child could become the next Einstein.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:31PM
What you just did there was use a straw man fallacy as an arguement
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:34PM
You're worse than Hitler, you Nazi!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:36PM
Lol you are good at this :^)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:46PM
Given a chance to live, the child could become the next Pol Pot.
But on average, the child is likely to be pretty damn near average.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 01 2016, @12:33AM
Nonsense. We killed the next Einstein in Iraq. And, the next Fermi in Afghanistan. The next Kepler was murdered in Paris. And, the next Volta is in Los Angeles, overdosing on meth.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday July 01 2016, @02:13PM
Are you referring to actual specific people or is this just another bizarre "the U.S. sucks" argument?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @02:43PM
Runaway is from an alternate future where there is no war, and everything is utopian. That's why he's so grumpy being stuck here.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 01 2016, @04:14PM
I'm pointing out that people are killed wholesale around the world. The "next Einstein" might be anywhere that drones, bombs, and bullets are in use. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Einstein was born in a chicago suburb, surrounded by white picket fences.
(Score: 2) by J053 on Friday July 01 2016, @12:33AM
Given a chance to live, the child could become the next Einstein.
Or the next Pol Pot.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by IndigoFreak on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:36PM
I used to think this way. But then I realized one day that some of my tax dollars are spent towards all the children in the US, and even some not in the US. So, since it is my money, I get a say in it. If this child grows up to be damaged, be that physically or mentally, tax money will be spent in some form or another trying help that child. If the child is really screwed up, it will probably have run ins with the law and end up in prison, where once again, my money will be used to house the criminal.
So while I don't get a direct say in who has kids, I do get a say in who is elected and what bills are passed into law. The more of my tax money that ends up being spent on fellow citizens, the more I will demand I get a say in other peoples lives.
I am honestly a little bit excited for when we finally move to single payer health care in the US, and I can get a say in what all the unhealthy people eat, and how much they exercise.
I didn't read the article, so I am not sure if this lady will raise the child in the US or the UK, which matters since I don't pay taxes in the UK, but I believe you should be able to get my point.
(Score: 3, Touché) by MostCynical on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:23PM
Can they have a say in your road upgrades and if you get a heart operation, or is your fascism one-way?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 01 2016, @12:56AM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:27PM
Well one thing's for sure -- the child is definitely a wanted one.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 01 2016, @12:55AM
That's one of many reasons why I don't believe our money should be pooled against our will for causes we don't believe in.
Of course, the money spent involuntarily on children in the U.S. pales in comparison to the amount of money spent involuntarily killing children on the other side of the world. That's my number one reason for opposing the practice.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @01:45PM
Yes it is tragic that such a vast amount of money is spent on killing children on the other side of the world. Now imagine the tragedy if we didn't kill all those people, and they grew up and had many children.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @05:16PM
only traitors, cowards and idiots pay income taxes. So, you have no legitimate say on this.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:38PM
Care to be a bit more specific?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Funny) by Hartree on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:38PM
Oh, we can do far worse than just "wtf".
A little thought will have you have you hauling out the brain bleach.
Rule 34 says there will be porn dedicated to it. Possibly websites for it as a fetish.
And worst of all: Poorly written fan fics using it as a plot.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by GungnirSniper on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:15PM
This nicely satisfies the future grandmother's mourning for her daughter and some innate need to see one's genes continue on down the line.
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(Score: 1, Offtopic) by takyon on Thursday June 30 2016, @08:54PM
Yeah, so? It's not like anything matters anyway. Certainly not the future of the planet or humanity.
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(Score: 4, Funny) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:21PM
true, true.
so.....
can we have your liver??
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:38PM
After I'm done ruining it, yeah. *Real burp*
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:42PM
so.....
can we have your liver??
We? I don't think I agreed to share takyon's liver. I may be willing to let you have one of his kidneys, but that depends on if you're paying for dinner first.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:02PM
SoylentNews is. . . organs, people organs.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by TrumpetPower! on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:07PM
We've already got a Sagan* people on Earth. How many more do we need?
Rather than come up with new ways to boost fertility, it's high past time we devote our efforts to slamming on the brakes. Baskets of condoms at every newsstand, all non-prescription birth control free at the cash register, $0 copay prescription and surgical birth control for everybody. All ages, with no questions save for those necessary for medical treatment (such as allergies, contraindications, and the like).
And no government support at all for fertility enhancement efforts of any nature.
Of course, our society is dominated by Puritans who hate the thought that people might have sex, and especially that women might have sex they don't approve of and be able to avoid the just divine retribution of childbirth as the necessary cost. But, if we keep that up, we're going to suffocate under the weight of all those babies....
And, no. I'm not joking. Within rounding, all our modern problems are the direct result of human overpopulation. We wouldn't have an oil crisis, we wouldn't have global warming, pollution would be under control, we wouldn't be running out of topsoil and fresh water, species wouldn't be disappearing due to habitat loss, and on and on and on and on were the global population measured in the mere millions rather than the booming billions.
Cheers,
b&
--
* One Sagan = billions and billions.
All but God can prove this sentence true.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:13PM
We've already got a Sagan* people on Earth. How many more do we need?
Of course, our society is dominated by Puritans who hate the thought that people might have sex, and especially that women might have sex they don't approve of and be able to avoid the just divine retribution of childbirth as the necessary cost.
To me it's puritanism to decide that people can't decide to have children under certain circumstances. Since when is some other woman's womb my business?
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Zz9zZ on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:44PM
This is a very tricky topic that boils down to the good of the many vs. the good of the few. I'm very pro-freedom, but on the flipside I can see the logical points about over population. Maybe an education campaign would work OK to convince people about the problems with over population and the need to only have 1-2 kids for a while.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @05:02AM
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 02 2016, @07:26AM
Eh, those are the minority really. The fact that urban populations already self-regulate is telling. People respond to reality, education will only accelerate that process. Sure some will be die hard have-as-many-kids-as-possible-because-fancy-hat-said-so, but it would be worth trying before we get to the same point as China and have to force people to do the right thing. Much better if people realize it on their own.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 5, Touché) by TrumpetPower! on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:50PM
Nowhere in my original post did I even orthogonally hint at involuntary sterilization. Everything was about providing no-cost contraception for the asking, and to stop subsidizing fertility enhancements.
For you to leap from that straight to eugenics is most shameless sophistry, indeed.
Cheers,
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:16PM
We need to sustain the population to pay off the debt :/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @04:06AM
To pay off the dept which ultimately fills the fat bellies of the 1%.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Thursday June 30 2016, @10:05PM
The problem is you are creating an Idiocracy situation where the smart people (whom you really WANT to breed) aren't having kids and the booger eating morons have a houseload because they are too fucking lazy and stupid to use birth control.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by TrumpetPower! on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:11PM
That made for a great plot device, but the actual genetics of intelligence and the social dynamics of birth rates aren't even remotely like that. Your might as well propose we water plants with gators because they crave electric light.
Cheers,
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01 2016, @04:01AM
Probably not the birth rates, but we don't know enough about intelligence to say anything on the matter. IQ has not been proven to be related to intelligence, either, just assumed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:49PM
Perhaps vasectomies for all the Catholics with 8 kids rather than picking on some old lady who's child died.
(Score: 2) by Kilo110 on Friday July 01 2016, @02:14AM
a declining population is bad for GDP. Japan is having issues. And China discovered that and killed off their one child policy.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Friday July 01 2016, @02:10PM
On 29 October 2015, it was reported that the existing law would be changed to a two-child policy, citing a statement from the Communist Party of China. The new law became effective from 1 January 2016, following its passage in the standing committee of the National People's Congress on 27 December 2015.
For sufficiently liberal interpretations of "killed off."
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Touché) by Zinho on Friday July 01 2016, @02:10PM
Baskets of condoms at every newsstand...
Most your other ideas for subsidized fertility management sound great, this one is a fail.
Outdoor newsstands tend to get a lot of solar exposure, and in summer months are exposed to the high environmental temperature. That shortens the lifespan of rubber significantly; I would expect that "free at newsstand" condoms would soon get a reputation for unreliability as unintended pregnancies result even from people who use them properly.
Keep your condoms out of the sun, keep them cool, keep them working.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:19PM
I cannot even imagine the psycho-drama that this child will be born into. This is a woman clearly in deep mourning. She has decided, at the age of 60, to bear and raise the biological issue of her daughter. I cannot even imagine the expectations that will be put upon this child as the mother tries to reclaim her long-dead daughter through this child.
Artificial fertilization is tough enough on young bodies; a 60-year old woman doing this seems like a terrible idea. Outside of the risks of hormone injections, the child will be borne by a woman long past her child-bearing years with obvious emotional issues. I expect, if this woman goes through with this, the child to be either killed in an "accident" or be in the custody of CPS (or the English equivalent) before it is out of diapers.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:34PM
Even if the kid isn't damaged, they are very likely to be orphaned before high school graduation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @09:37PM
And that would be awesome. Just think of how many teens wish their parents would just die already, and who fantasize about becoming emancipated minors, as soon as they come of age. This lucky kid won't have to wish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30 2016, @11:05PM
One parent is already dead.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 01 2016, @12:50AM
I'm not even female - and it's hard for me to imagine trying to have kids at age 60. The diapers, the tantrums, the boundless energy, endless squabbles over eating healthy, on and on it goes. This lady is definitely on the crazy side.