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posted by janrinok on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:12PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the pushed-or-jumped? dept.

"[Lucky Green, the person] responsible for very early [TOR] nodes says 'recent events' make it impossible to continue"[1]

"It will therefore be left to others to speculate about whether or not Green's decision is the result of the turmoil in the project, which emerged when Jacob Applebaum exited amid accusations and recriminations, and continued with the project's board replacing itself."

[1] Full Article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/18/lucky_green_torpedos_tors_tonga_node/

[1arc] Full Article (Archived):
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/18/lucky_green_torpedos_tors_tonga_node/

"Lucky Green's message[2] to the community reads as follows:"

"Given recent events, it is no longer appropriate for me to materially contribute to the Tor Project either financially, as I have so generously throughout the years, nor by providing computing resources. This decision does not come lightly; I probably ran one of the first five nodes in the system and my involvement with Tor predates it being called "Tor" by many years.

Nonetheless, I feel that I have no reasonable choice left within the bounds of ethics, but to announce the discontinuation of all Tor-related services hosted on every system under my control. Most notably, this includes the Tor node "Tonga", the "Bridge Authority", which I recognize is rather pivotal to the network

Tonga will be permanently shut down and all associated crytographic keys destroyed on 2016-08-31. This should give the Tor developers ample time to stand up a substitute. I will terminate the chron [sic] job we set up so many years ago at that time that copies over the descriptors. In addition to Tonga, I will shut down a number of fast Tor relays, but the directory authorities should detect that shutdown quickly and no separate notice is needed here.

I wish the Tor Project nothing but the best moving forward through those difficult times."

[2] Tonga (Bridge Authority) Permanent Shutdown Notice:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690

[2arc] Tonga (Bridge Authority) Permanent Shutdown Notice (Archived):
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690


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  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:31PM (#376912)

    Maybe if you stop uploading while you download pirated shit you wouldn't have to be so fucking paranoid.

    But then you wouldn't be using torrents and you wouldn't be part of the fake leet bros club of morons.

    Tor is a solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist: torrents are fucking flawed by design.

    • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:12AM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:12AM (#376941) Journal

      "This is whay we can't have noice things..."

      --
      You're betting on the pantomime horse...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:51AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:51AM (#376961)
      Nobody torrents over Tor.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:54AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:54AM (#376964)
      Nobody torrents over Tor. [torproject.org]
  • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:41PM

    by JNCF (4317) on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:41PM (#376914) Journal

    I would be pretty convinced that this was a response to government requests he can't reveal, except that he also stated he can't support them financially. This might make sense if he had found out that the Tor project is totally complicit in government surveillance, but then you would think he'd shut down his nodes immediately rather than giving them reasonable notice. I don't know what to make of this, or why somebody would feel the need to publicly announce their discontinuation of support on ethical grounds without making it abundantly clear what those ethical grounds were. The Jacob Applebaum thing would seem an odd reason, given that he already left the project.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM (#376917)

      There's always the part where TLAs can give him a nice "hint" about his assets and how they can freeze them due to "suspicions" for him supporting "a network which most pedophiles use."

      • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:00AM

        by JNCF (4317) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:00AM (#376921) Journal

        I hadn't thought of that, but I see your point. I think I'll be putting my tin foil hat back on now.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JNCF on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:21AM

        by JNCF (4317) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:21AM (#376924) Journal

        Another thought, a moment later: wouldn't that mean that the US Naval Research Laboratory would be guilty of the same thing? Not that they would be charged, of course.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:33AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:33AM (#376952)

          Correct.
          And so would all the new board members which include:

          Matt Blaze - no introduction necessary
          Cindy Cohn - Director of the EFF
          Gabriella Coleman - Wolfe Chair in Scientific and Technological Literacy at McGill University.
          Linus Nordberg - longtime internet and privacy activist who has been involved with Tor since 2009.
          Megan Price - Executive Director of the Human Rights Data Analysis Group,
          Bruce Schneier - no introduction necessary
          ------

          At least 3 of those are big names. Tor has plenty of legitimacy with them on board.
          So I don't buy the conspiracy theorizations. The less well grounded will flip the script and say that now all of their names are tarnished.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @01:33PM (#377203)

            Unless all those respectable people were replaced with clones specifically designed for this purpose.

            Analyzing it a bit more, I think every important person and all those who show intelligence and might be important in the future have a clone in government facilities waiting to be deployed.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @07:45PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @07:45PM (#377481)

              How many of those people are East Coasters, specifically the Ma/Ny urban area ones. There are probably lots of ways they could be pressured, as far as grants, scrutiny of finances, etc goes. The exception being that FSF director who moved the FSF HQ to Seattle... maybe so it would be closer to Microsoft?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Sir Finkus on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM

      by Sir Finkus (192) on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM (#376918) Journal

      This might make sense if he had found out that the Tor project is totally complicit in government surveillance, but then you would think he'd shut down his nodes immediately rather than giving them reasonable notice.

      If that was the case, it seems like he'd want to go public, especially if he's quitting for ethical concerns. I highly suspect a NSL or something similar where he's gagged.

      The Applebaum thing doesn't make sense to me either. He's no longer involved in the project, and if he was taking a strong ethical stand, he'd denounce the TOR project's handling of the situation.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by jmorris on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:03AM

        by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:03AM (#376968)

        I highly suspect a NSL or something similar where he's gagged.

        Yup, warrant canary, except apparently he didn't have an actual canary so he innovated on the spot to say what can't be said. We don't know the details and he can't say so the other questions flying around like why keep a compromised node running for over a month can't be answered other than it is the best solution that can be done legally.

        If people would just keep a few basic laws of Internet Nature in mind they would enhance their calm greatly.

        1. There is no anonymity on the Internet. There are only layers of obfuscation, which may or may not be sufficient to dissuade people from bothering to track you down. Piss off people with unlimited resources and you WILL be found.

        2. There is no privacy on the Internet. This is a corollary to Law #1 but should be spelled out. Bitcoin does not even promise privacy.

        3. VPNs, TOR and other magic crypto fairly dust do not in the slightest impact rules 1 and 2. They are only another layer of obfuscation.

        The MPAA and RIAA are not even close to being the biggest threat on the Internet. They have little interest in chasing people to the ends of the Earth, they are focused on low hanging fruit and scaring the low info voters with splashy mass arrests. Nation State Actors, large political movements all but indistinguishable from NSAs. These are the threats.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:11AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:11AM (#376974)

          Piss off people with unlimited resources and you WILL be found.

          No one, not even government agencies, has unlimited resources.

        • (Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Wednesday July 20 2016, @05:24PM

          by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @05:24PM (#377368)

          TLAs aren't the real threats. They have real jobs to do - espionage and counterespionage. While there may be some personal snooping, they aren't incentivized to do anything with the data they have on me.

          Private companies (FB, Google, etc.) have a huge profit motive to track me, and use that data in any way that can make a buck. They probably have more web-facing resources than most country's TLAs. They are the scary mofos.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @08:32PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @08:32PM (#377515)

            TLAs aren't the real threats. They have real jobs to do - espionage and counterespionage.

            Sure, sure, they only threaten democracy itself [gnu.org], but they're not real threats. As long as you aren't a whistleblower, an activist, a politician challenging the status quo, a lawyer, or just generally someone who is trying to change society, you have nothing to fear! It's not like the government has tried to destroy activists before. [eff.org]

            Not real threats? Are you kidding me!? Or do you only care about yourself?

            • (Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Thursday July 21 2016, @07:13AM

              by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Thursday July 21 2016, @07:13AM (#377794)

              The GNU page applies as much, perhaps moreso, to corporations (Google/FB/etc.) than to TLAs.

              Yes, the TLAs failed to convince Dr. King to give up by sending a letter! It had blackmail! Compare that to FB's (intentional or not) skewing the news to a more liberal slant for all of its 1 Billion subscribers; each of whom has a vote and an amazing number of which put faith in the information they gather on FB. Imagine if FB had demoted any post that contained the word Trump in their algorithm. Do you think people would even notice (after all, FB doesn't show everyone every post). Do you think Trump would be the Republican nominee?

              I mean, these corporations have a lot of power. Whether you think the TSAs are well regulated or not, corporations have more freedom than that.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @05:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @05:27PM (#377371)

          Cryptosystems with unconditional sender untraceability have been described since the 80's. Your first law is false.

          • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday July 20 2016, @10:20PM

            by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @10:20PM (#377581)

            Who cares? The Internet allows tracking the path of any content back to the source, with a reliability varying depending on the effort expended vs effort to hide. Magic crypto pixie dust doesn't change that, it is just one layer of obfuscation in the effort to hide as stated above. If it were so easy, and known for over a generation, why isn't it deployed? Why isn't every bootleg release so protected as to prevent the identification and arrest of the poster? Why does Wikileaks even exist?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday July 20 2016, @03:51AM

        by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 20 2016, @03:51AM (#377026) Journal

        The Applebaum thing doesn't make sense to me either. He's no longer involved in the project, and if he was taking a strong ethical stand, he'd denounce the TOR project's handling of the situation.

        Actually the "The Applebaum thing" still seems to be the most likely thing. Remember it wasn't just Applebaum, there was the whole cadre of Applebaum accusers, a collection of characters that seems to spend a lot more time on things unrelated to software development or network security.

        Its probably something between a cat fight and a lynching.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:42AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:42AM (#377046)

          Yeah, the obvious reason is too much drama. Can't blame him for distancing himself from a toxic situation.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:38AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:38AM (#376987)

      Sounds to me like he's a) DONE with TOR, for reasons he considers ethically based, and b) giving notice that his bridge node will be going offline so that people who are using TOR won't experience a sudden, unexplained outage.

      What could tweak his ethics to cause him to withdraw his financial and compute resource support? you'd have to know the man better than I do to even begin to guess accurately.

      --
      My karma ran over your dogma.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:15PM (#377300)

      This was my thoughts exactly. Sounds like the guy is making a major course change but the reason is completely unclear.

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday July 21 2016, @09:09AM

      by driverless (4770) on Thursday July 21 2016, @09:09AM (#377825)

      It's the fallout over the Appelbaum affair. If Lucky came under any other sort of gummint pressure, he'd let the whole world know about it. The man has principles, he's not someone who can be intimidated out of doing what he thinks is right.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:50PM (#376916)

    Why do assholes always use corporate weasel phrases?

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by JNCF on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:56PM

      by JNCF (4317) on Tuesday July 19 2016, @11:56PM (#376920) Journal

      Why do assholes always use corporate weasel phrases?

      Why do assholes baselessly imply that other people are assholes?

      I'd have liked to know why he's stopping, but that's just curiosity. He doesn't have any obligation to run a node for you. It was nice of him to do it, and nice of him to give notice. What have you done for the Tor project?

      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:41AM

        by edIII (791) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:41AM (#376928)

        Why do assholes baselessly imply that other people are assholes?

        The Rule of Lord Helmet:

        It's not you; You really are surrounded by assholes

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:46AM (#376931)

          My asshole follows behind me wherever I go and compels me to do dirty, dirty things at least once per day.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @09:00AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @09:00AM (#377114)

            That's not your asshole, it's Ethanol-fueled.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:42AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @12:42AM (#376929)

        Why are moralizing scumbags intentionally illiterate?

        I wish the Tor Project nothing but the best moving forward through those difficult times."

        Right there is the basis for calling the corporate weasel an asshole.

        He ran a node for me? Now you want to presume that I have ever even used Tor? Where did that utterly baseless assumption come from?

        • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:06AM

          by Zz9zZ (1348) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:06AM (#376971)

          Now that is a nit being picked.

          --
          ~Tilting at windmills~
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:19AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @02:19AM (#376977)

            forum spies technique #3, topic dilution

            https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm [cryptome.org]

            • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:29AM

              by Zz9zZ (1348) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:29AM (#377042)

              I wish I was implementing such techniques (not really) as I'd probably be getting a higher salary :P

              No, I just think "moving forward" is too simple a phrase to read into that much. However, if you'd care to elaborate on why the guy is an asshole for using a phrase that is somewhat corporate speak I am willing to listen.

              --
              ~Tilting at windmills~
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:32AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20 2016, @04:32AM (#377043)

                accusation of topic dilution was directed at the original poster not at Zz9zZ

        • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday July 20 2016, @03:34PM

          by JNCF (4317) on Wednesday July 20 2016, @03:34PM (#377273) Journal

          If your only evidence of assholery is the use of "corporate weasel phrases," your original question has a tautological answer: assholes always use corporate weasel phrases because use of corporate weasel phrases is the defining feature of an asshole. I say "the defining feature" because your original question makes it clear that all assholes use corporate weasel phrases, and we've established that this is enough to qualify you on its own. Thus, no other criteria is necessary.

          I don't actually agree with the definitions you've made up in your silly ad hoc word game, obviously; I'm just better at using them than you are. Try to come up with a clever troll next time.