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posted by cmn32480 on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:19AM   Printer-friendly
from the camera+GPS=knowing-most-everything dept.

This data-mining game is what they call totalitarianism is how Oliver Stone described Pokémon Go at Comic Con. Earlier in the month Al Franken also expressed some concern asking the creator of the game about privacy, data sharing, and account access.

More from Stone:

They're data-mining every person in this room for information as to what you're buying, what you like, and above all, your behaviour. Pokémon Go kicks into that. But this is everywhere. It's what some people call surveillance capitalism. It's the newest stage. It's not for profit in the beginning, but it becomes for profit in the end.

It manipulates your behaviour. It has happened already quite a bit on the Internet, but you'll see it everywhere—you'll see a new form of, frankly, a robot society, where they will know how you want to behave and they will make the mockup that matches how you behave and feed you. It's what they call totalitarianism.

Personally I gave up my smart phone more than two years ago because I did not want a spy machine in my pocket; I've never played Pokémon Go but it seemed like a great way for the game creators to get people to run around and point the players camera at what ever they want, obtain other location based data, or focus players into businesses that pay for the privilege. Perhaps I just need to adjust my tinfoil hat but what do the 'lentils think? Is Stone just trying to plug his new movie or is this a legitimate concern?


Original Submission

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Book Review: Rainbows End by Rudy Rucker 5 comments

I previously reviewed Rudy Rucker's Ware Tetralogy and Postsingular and found that Rudy Rucker's best work comes after ideas had the most time to percolate. Postsingular was a relative dud, although still far superior to Neal Stephenson's REAMDE. In contrast, Rainbows End is highly recommended. Indeed, it is essential reading for anyone concerned about the progression of software from desktop, web and mobile to augmented reality. The book has a shockingly similar game to Pokémon Go in addition to a plausible mix of tech mergers and new entrants in a near-future universe where smartphones have given way to wearable augmented reality.

Many books, comics and films have covered the purgatory of high school and some have covered the special purgatory of going back to high school (for a re-union or as a student). The film: 21 Jump Street is a particularly silly example of the sub-genre. Rainbows End covers a world leading humanities academic who spends years in the fugue of dementia, responds almost perfectly to medical advances and is enrolled in high school to complete his therapy. While he looks almost perfectly like a 17 year old, his contemporaries remain in decline or have bounced back with far more random results.

Although he has physically recovered, he has lost his razor-sharp insight and biting wit[1]. Like other patients, he finds talents in unrelated areas. His computer fluency, which was sufficient to publish in academic journals, is now 20 years out of date. During this period, laptops have become as thin as paper and also horrendously obsolete. Although the paper-thin laptops can be configured as a variety of legacy desktop environments and legacy web browsers, rendering data from the (almost) ubiquitous wireless network is less successful than accessing the current World Wide Web without images or JavaScript. However, this is only one slice of purgatory.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:53AM (#378973)

    Personally I gave up my smart phone more than two years ago because I did not want a spy machine in my pocket

    I've never owned a smartphone. I am way more hipster than you, wannabe.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by gringer on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:56AM

      by gringer (962) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:56AM (#379004)

      I'm still waiting for a flipphone smartphone with a free OS.

      • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:04AM

        by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:04AM (#379006)

        A non-smart phone with a free OS would be nice, too.

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:38PM

          by HiThere (866) on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:38PM (#379139) Journal

          What does that even mean?

          If the phone isn't smart, then it has neither need nor capacity to use any OS, free or otherwise.

          Now one could argue about degrees...e.g. "Does an FPGA count as smart?" and "What capabilities does something need to have before you call it an OS?" but those are only corner cases.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:09PM

            by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:09PM (#379183)

            Imagine a phone from, say, 2005 (one that can do phone calls and text messages) with an OS that I can "git clone; make" and flash to the device.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:28PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:28PM (#379188)

              Start here. [oracle.com] ;-)

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:18PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:18PM (#379130) Homepage Journal

      I'm not a hipster at all, but I only turn "location services" on when I need it.

      --
      Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by quintessence on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:56AM

    by quintessence (6227) on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:56AM (#378975)

    One the one hand, we have a brave new world where everything from your news to your morning enema is custom tailored to you and you alone, even adjusting for where you are in your current personal drama, with just enough variety to seem interesting but never venturing into that uncomfortable weird space. Three lumps instead of two this morning? Very well, you rebel you.

    How do you suppose to get there without someone knowing EVERY little detail about your life, including that subscription to Old Women in Bondage to you have and would rather remained private, with just the occasional ad for ball gags showing up every now and then in your suggestion list.

    On the other, you have data mining galore, with people even analyzing John Wayne's video rentals to draw some conclusion about the very nature of his soul, uncertainty about whether I even own my DNA sequence, and that omnipresent credit report. The best part? Nearly all of that data is riddled with errors and only a fool would try to draw some meaningful conclusion from it.

    Enter the ad men, with promises that the can pry into the deepest recesses of your subconscious by simply knowing what type of toothpaste you buy (and how often). Did you know that particular flavor is preferred by closeted homosexuals? Look at our graph. And wouldn't you be interested in some life insurance too?

    The problem isn't data exactly, but people too stupid to mange it let alone secure it, and ultimately we will just drown in the minutiae.

    Besides, I don't make enough for anything you want to sell me.

    • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:55AM

      by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:55AM (#379002)

      we have a brave new world where everything from your news to your morning enema is custom tailored to you and you alone

      You seem to be implying that this is something that people want.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:05PM (#379045)

        They've been told they want this so by golly, they'll have it!

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:36PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:36PM (#379092)

        I've been waiting my whole life for something to be custom tailored for me. But nothing is. Where are the eyeglasses that don't sit crooked on my face? Where is the cat food that doesn't stain the floor when he pukes it up? Where are the videos of nude white women performing Sailor Moon's transformation scene? Come on marketers! This is a golden opportunity here. Hello!?

        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:28PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:28PM (#379136) Homepage Journal

          Where are the eyeglasses that don't sit crooked on my face?

          Old tech, hundreds of years old. Contact lenses are painless now, you won't know you're wearing them, and there are even contacts for astigmatism.

          Or you could spend the $15,000 for a CrystaLens implant and no longer need any corrective lenses (my vision went from 20/400 to 20/16. I have better than 20/20 vision). IMO best invention of the 21st century so far.

          Where is the cat food that doesn't stain the floor when he pukes it up?

          If there's a male cat in your house it stinks to high heaven, and the puke on the floor is the least of your housecleaning problems. Male cats mark territory.

          Where are the videos of...>

          Make one yourself, you lazy bastard!

          --
          Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 25 2016, @06:41PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 25 2016, @06:41PM (#379963) Journal

          Japan

      • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:58PM

        by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:58PM (#379121)

        I've met plenty of people who do want some amount of tailored experience, and no they're not idiots. They realize there is tracking and surveillance, but (to my extreme frustration) throw up their hands and say "I just expect that and adjust my expectations accordingly".

        --
        ~Tilting at windmills~
        • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:12PM

          by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:12PM (#379184)

          I'm not calling anyone an idiot, all I'm saying is that I've never met anyone who expects any of this.

          Seems we know different kinds of people then.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:06PM

            by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:06PM (#379206)

            I was heading off what I saw as the inevitable "well they're just dumb" reply from anyone. The best compromise I've heard of is letting users tailor their own ad topics or user experience. Stalking users to determine the profile is creepy and wrong.

            --
            ~Tilting at windmills~
    • (Score: 2) by Gravis on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:19AM

      by Gravis (4596) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:19AM (#379011)

      [...] where everything from your news to your morning enema is custom tailored to you and you alone, even adjusting for where you are in your current personal drama, with just enough variety to seem interesting but never venturing into that uncomfortable weird space. [...]
      How do you suppose to get there without someone knowing EVERY little detail about your life

      with a simple feedback system! seriously, netflix doesn't probe my life (just my feedback) and yet it does a fair job of selecting media i might like. why is not spying on people such a difficult concept for you assholes?! ((ヾ(≧皿≦;)ノ_))

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:23PM

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:23PM (#379025) Homepage Journal

        They used to be a lot better than they are now - something's changed. In the top recommendations on my account it has been listing items that have a low rating like someone forgot to grep out the results that the likeability estimator came up with. And for some odd reason every (or what seems like it) Netflix created show that bubbles up into my suggestions has 5 stars and has no relation to how much I'll care for the show.

        I agree with the feedback system being sufficient because it did a great job and the Netflix X prize for increasing the accuracy of the predictor was one of the greatest things I've seen a tech company do. Now it looks like marketing got ahold of it and is using it to shove crap down people's throats. Such a shame.

        • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:22PM

          by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:22PM (#379377)

          Now it looks like marketing got a hold of it and is using it to shove crap down people's throats. Such a shame.

          This sort of thing is becoming pervasive. YouTube is now flooded with right wing conspiracy (Infowars and such crap) videos that pop up in every recommended videos feed. They are either paying for placement or somehow gaming the system.

          • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:59PM

            by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:59PM (#379386) Homepage Journal

            YouTube is now flooded with right wing conspiracy (Infowars and such crap) videos that pop up in every recommended videos feed.

            Hmmmm I wasn't sure if this was a local experience for you or if I was really good at filtering that crap out with out knowing it. I just checked some recommended videos in Youtube and still didn't see anything I noticed was even political. But this was in there [youtube.com].

            Course all I really do with Youtube is watch PBS SpaceTime, the weekly Last Week Tonight topic, and as of yesterday the best worst cocktail shaker ever [youtube.com]

            • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Wednesday July 27 2016, @08:57PM

              by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Wednesday July 27 2016, @08:57PM (#380886)

              Hmmmm I wasn't sure if this was a local experience for you or if I was really good at filtering that crap out with out knowing it.

              Funny, the day after I typed this they were gone, but just for a day or so and they have returned. Do you log in? I don't, so nothing is being filtered by my preferences other than whatever YouTube does with the videos I'm watching that day. I also only allow the minimum scripts necessary to view videos.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:39AM

                by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:39AM (#381009) Homepage Journal

                Do you log in? I don't, so nothing is being filtered by my preferences other than whatever YouTube does with the videos I'm watching that day.

                I do not authenticate with google when using youtube, even when videos require it. The results are still filtered through a system that takes into account the physical location of the viewer - you might be able to change the behavior if you can look at it from different IP addresses. I wonder if they also keep a list of all the tor exit nodes and filter just for them instead of the exit node's physical location.

                My google text search results like to pre-populate with questions about weird racial stereotypes - I also live in an area that is full of racists. The racists are usually pretty ignorant though but I guess everyone can use the Internet now.

                • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:09PM

                  by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:09PM (#381306)

                  The results are still filtered through a system that takes into account the physical location of the viewer - you might be able to change the behavior if you can look at it from different IP addresses

                  Interesting. Occasionally my location will show as a town many miles away rather than local. I wonder if that is why those videos disappeared for a short time.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by art guerrilla on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:21AM

      by art guerrilla (3082) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:21AM (#379013)

      speaking of personal drama, in talking w SWMBO about kids at the school where she teaches, it appears the prevalent behavior is to act like you are the star of your own 'reality' (sic) show...
      dog almighty ! is that where we are headed ?
      is ted kazinski's shack for rent ?

      • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:25PM

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:25PM (#379026) Homepage Journal

        Your ideas are intriguing to me and I would like to subscribe to your news letter.

        Seriously - details please? Is it kids? Adults? The school staff? Everyone?

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:30PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:30PM (#379137) Homepage Journal

        I don't live in the ghetto any more. What's a "w SWMBO"?

        --
        Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
        • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:38PM (#379169)

          w is short for with
          SWM is short for single white male
          BO is short for back orifice

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @05:05AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @05:05AM (#379299)

            BO is short for back orifice

            I thought BO was short for body odor. Not sure why someone would be talking to that though.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by jpkunst on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:20AM

          by jpkunst (2310) on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:20AM (#379313)

          SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed. From the novel She by H. Rider Haggard, jokingly used for "wife".

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:04PM

      by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:04PM (#379022) Homepage Journal

      One the one hand, we have a brave new world where everything from your news to your morning enema is custom tailored to you and you alone

      Don't login to sites that provide such services and clear your cookies like you change your underwear (or more frequently in your case). That leaves geolocation and browser fingerprinting. Now change browsers around depending on where you go and you've left behind a partial trail.

      If you want to avoid falling victim to your own echo chamber use duck duck go for your search engine; everyone gets the same results.

    • (Score: 2) by Anne Nonymous on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:33PM

      by Anne Nonymous (712) on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:33PM (#379052)

      > your morning enema

      No thanks, I'll just stick with strong, black coffee.

      • (Score: 2) by quintessence on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:08PM

        by quintessence (6227) on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:08PM (#379107)

        You can have both!

        The colon is highly vascular, which makes it ideal for quick absorption, not to mention the stimulating effect increasing peristalsis...

        At least you didn't say hot coffee. That could get... messy.

        Have you seen the Amazon reviews?

        https://www.amazon.com/Enema-Approved-Transparent-Re-Usable-Reinforced/dp/B00WZYEVB8/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1469297067&sr=8-1&keywords=gerson+therapy+coffee+enema [amazon.com]

        Those aren't coffee beans.

        :)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:36PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:36PM (#379116)

        I like my men like you like your coffee.

      • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:01PM

        by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:01PM (#379124)

        I think you missed the metaphor, your morning caffeine is the enema.... Or have I taken lunch too early?

        --
        ~Tilting at windmills~
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:43PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:43PM (#379170)

          Perhaps I took breakfast too orally.

  • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:17AM

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:17AM (#378980)

    is that humanity is going stupid.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:27AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:27AM (#378981)

      Humanity has always been somewhat stupid. This is just another example of someone exploiting that stupidity.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:40AM (#378983)

      Yeah, clearly they are idiots for liking something that you personally do not.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:48AM (#379001)

      is that humanity is going stupid.

      [Citation Needed]

    • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:04PM

      by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:04PM (#379126)

      So you're flavor of stupid is to join the hipster hate train?

      I don't play pokemon, but as it gets the players out of the house and exploring the world I would say its better than most other games (aside from whatever tracking they're doing, burn in hell marketing tools).

      --
      ~Tilting at windmills~
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:56PM (#379177)

        The software is also proprietary, so it doesn't respect the users' freedoms. Games like this are toxic garbage for filthy normies.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:52AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:52AM (#378986)

    Insert New Popular Thing here.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by JeanCroix on Saturday July 23 2016, @03:25PM

      by JeanCroix (573) on Saturday July 23 2016, @03:25PM (#379057)
      I hated Pokemon Go before it was cool to hate Pokemon Go.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:54AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @09:54AM (#378987)

    When a publicity stunt meets the "get off my lawn".

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:14AM (#378990)

    Just like the recent Leslie Jones stuff may have been manufaced - or at the very least something seized upon - to generate publicity. Last summer this (sorry to link to the green site) Men's Rights Activists Call For Boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road. [slashdot.org]
    It is quite common.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:18AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:18AM (#378992)

      Granted no publicity is bad publicity, but the whole drama over Mad Max just made everyone look like fools.

      "It's a feminist film."

      "So what? Is it good?"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:35AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:35AM (#379017)

      > Just like the recent Leslie Jones stuff may have been manufaced

      You are right. It was manufactured. But not the way you think.

      Milo *wanted* to get kicked off twitter. His whole shtick is taking performance bigotry and calling it strength. He's been working at it for years, gradually pushing twitter to restrict him, each time getting bigger and bigger penalties. A few months ago they took away his 'verified' status. He celebrated when his team got the email that he was banned because he expects it to boost his celebrity among among his angry, conspiracy-minded followers. His goal is to turn raw rage into political currency and he thinks being banned will help him do that.

      So yeah, a cynical manipulation, and you've been played like a fiddle.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:00PM (#379146)

        On the other hand, every single news organization in the world reported dramatically on poor innocent Leslie, who was forced to quit Twitter because of hordes of evil racists. Every one of them reprinted the exact same 3 or 4 tweets, which indeed were pretty insulting.

        Few of the MSM yellow journalists reported that she came right back to Twitter two days later. None of them reported about the offensive, racist comments SHE HERSELF had made before. They had an agenda and they were sticking to it.

        Don't believe me? Then why did the entire MSM all use the exact same word to paint a negative image of this week's RNC convention? LINK [postimg.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:05PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:05PM (#379180)

          > None of them reported about the offensive, racist comments SHE HERSELF had made before.

          Because they weren't. I saw the gif of screen caps floating around that were intended to be oh so damning. They were weak tea and none of them were attacks on anyone.

          But see the original point about Milo's angry, conspiracy theory loving herd.

          > Don't believe me? Then why did the entire MSM all use the exact same word to paint a negative image of this week's RNC convention?

          Dunno how that is related to the original topic unless you've given up pretense of talking about the original story and are just going down the imaginary rabbit hole of conspiracy. But I'd say the reason that phrase was so popular was because it was clever and reporters are lazy. Frankly that's the first time I've even heard it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:36AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:36AM (#379238)

          What's up with the cartoon guy clasping his hands?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:51PM (#379043)

      One guy on his blag called for a boycott of Fury Road.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by nyder on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:18AM

    by nyder (4525) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:18AM (#378993)

    I bought a smartphone just so I can play Pokemon Go. Let's be truthful here, if you are worried about people knowing what you are up to, you don't own or use a smartphone, or even a computer these day. Way to easy to track & hack. I bought the phone to play a video game. The game has no way to know anything but my movement data. Big whoop. Now if I want total privacy, I leave my smartphone at home, just like you should, and your fit bit, and your smart watch, and your ipad/tablet. Probably shouldn't take anything electronic out with you...

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:36AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:36AM (#378996)

      That'll teach those companies not to track people and to respect the user's freedoms. Keep buying and/or using their abusive products.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:07AM

      by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:07AM (#379007)

      So are you trying to say that we shouldn't question these things and that we shouldn't inform people about the dangers of giving away all their personal data?

      • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:51PM

        by darkfeline (1030) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:51PM (#379199) Homepage

        I'm guessing he's saying something along the lines of, don't optimize prematurely.

        Sure, it makes sense to avoid smartphones if you want to avoid tracking, but do you also use a credit card? Oops, you're trackable anyway. Do you enable any JavaScript at all? Oops, your browser is fingerprintable. Internet? Oops, you're in PRISM.

        Privacy is only as good as the weakest link, and for most people, that link is weaker than they think. Heck, simply visiting this site, over HTTPS, can be analyzed by machine learning and fingerprint you via IP and the frequency patterns of your requests to SN (for example, are you a poster or a lurker?) and other requests originating from your IP.

        --
        Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
        • (Score: 2) by cockroach on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:51PM

          by cockroach (2266) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:51PM (#379222)

          You are of course right, it is pretty much impossible to do anything these days without being tracked, or at least being trackable.

          Still, I think that there is a bit of a difference between "the man" having tools to track you down, and people just giving away their personal data to anyone who offers a bit of entertainment in return. In the end it is everyone's personal decision how much they want to try and fight the mostly inevitable; warning people about what they are getting themselves into seems like a reasonable thing though. Even if only to be in a position for a good old I told you so.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @08:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @08:38AM (#379337)

          There are degrees of privacy. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Just because you're being tracked in some ways doesn't mean you should hand over other information on a silver platter.

          Personally, I don't have a cellphone, and I don't use a credit card unless it's for something where my name would inevitably be known anyway. I pay with cash and generally do not allow JavaScript (not all of it is for tracking).

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Unixnut on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:21PM

      by Unixnut (5779) on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:21PM (#379024)

      >> I bought the phone to play a video game. The game has no way to know anything but my movement data. Big whoop.

      Ignoring what it knows about you (which is a lot move than just your movement data) due to the fact it is your data and you have a choice how much you share and with whom, I think the complaint is that you are also filming and collecting data on your surroundings, which is where the disagreement comes in. People have been arrested trying to chase Pokemon into military installations, or restricted areas. Not to mention all those wondering into peoples private lands.

      • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:48PM

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:48PM (#379042) Homepage Journal

        People have been arrested trying to chase Pokemon into military installations, or restricted areas. Not to mention all those wondering into peoples private lands.

        Jesus I didn't know that was going on. Is there a legitimate reason to put the objectives of the game on private land? Non-commercial real estate could be filtered out by using public records such as surveying and land deeds. They are programmers, they can do it. If it makes money they can afford it.

        I can understand the game creator spraying the targets (Pokes? what ever the fuck those things are called) out randomly on maps because no one thought this through. I hope they've managed to fix this.

        Yes people are stupid for marching into a military base or going onto people's land. But if you give a monkey a gun who is at fault? It ain't the fuckin monkey.

        • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:11PM

          by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:11PM (#379127)

          Sure it is possible to restrict the locations, but it isn't simple by any means. The data is scattered across all sorts of databases that aren't even available to the public, and some people have access to a space, such as a private office. I think you are underestimating the difficulty of making sure a location is "safe" and a nice big disclaimer / warning is probably the better route to take. "Do not enter private property, exercise caution and safety at all times when hunting a pokemon". Make it a pop up at least once a day.

          --
          ~Tilting at windmills~
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 25 2016, @07:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 25 2016, @07:32PM (#379994)

        I've heard that Groom Lake, Nevada, is an excellent ground for catching Pokemon. There's a nearby airport that is a Pokestop, too!

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:32PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:32PM (#379090)

      > The game has no way to know anything but my movement data.

      You think so, huh?

      Do you have wifi at home? Do you use any other computers at home? Tada! Your smartphone has ratted you out. It knows your wifi's SSID and MAC address and has reported that along with the GPS coordinates back to google. Google has also linked all the web activity of all the other systems behind the router with your phone including any identifying info they've revealed. So now when you take that phone with you, it isn't just "movement activity," its stuff like where you work, where your friends live, what stores you shop at, what doctors you visit etc, etc. And its a permanent record associated with all the other computers back at your house so even if you toss the phone, all that info is part of the permanent dossier google has on you.

      • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:28PM

        by butthurt (6141) on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:28PM (#379156) Journal

        It knows your wifi's SSID and MAC address and has reported that along with the GPS coordinates back to google.

        If the house is near a road, Google and others likely have that information already. Google famously sent vans driving around in many countries, with cameras and (in some countries) Wi-fi sniffing equipment. If Google missed a spot, the players of this game may well venture there.

        The OP had written "...I leave my smartphone at home..."; if the OP ever leaves it there while on, that can reveal where the OP lives. Taking it other places can reveal when the OP has left home. That information can be useful to an adversary.

        Google has also linked all the web activity of all the other systems behind the router with your phone including any identifying info they've revealed.

        Just bringing a smart-phone into the vicinity of a Wi-fi access point doesn't automatically give it access to the network. Of course, one can set up unencrypted Wi-fi or one can provide one's WPA password to the phone.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:07PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:07PM (#379182)

          Just bringing a smart-phone into the vicinity of a Wi-fi access point doesn't automatically give it access to the network. Of course, one can set up unencrypted Wi-fi or one can provide one's WPA password to the phone.

          Thank you captain obvious!

          • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:38PM

            by butthurt (6141) on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:38PM (#379194) Journal

            It wasn't obvious to the AC who wrote

            Google has also linked all the web activity of all the other systems behind the router with your phone including any identifying info they've revealed.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jcross on Monday July 25 2016, @01:02AM

          by jcross (4009) on Monday July 25 2016, @01:02AM (#379606)

          Yes but think what you can infer from the parallel nature of the location data. If the OP has a dumb phone for actual calls, some system knows roughly where that is. Probably not the Pokemon Go system, but still. So the device is either always at your house or always right near your dumb phone? Hmm, what a coincidence! Obviously one could take precautions to make sure this data is hard to correlate, but that's going to come at the cost of convenience, and once they decide it's your device, your cover might be blown for good. You drive around to get to your Poke-spots? Funny how the device data lines up with what the license plate scanners are saying. Hell, for that matter let's say that you get caught on the camera of another player. You think big data can't recognize your face?

          • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday July 25 2016, @01:45AM

            by butthurt (6141) on Monday July 25 2016, @01:45AM (#379621) Journal

            Yes, thank you, if they know where you live they may be able to work out who you are, or at least come up with a short list of possibilities (depending on whether one lives in a detached house, row house, or block of flats). I had meant to mention that.

            I hadn't thought about number plate readers; that information would certainly help narrow down a list.

            The game doesn't appear to be designed to capture images of people's faces. I haven't played it but I gather that the Pokémon creatures are typically displayed as though they are on the ground, leading players to aim their cameras downward. That could of course change in future versions.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:45AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:45AM (#379000)

    now all this outcry, and all because it is not a 'murican company.

  • (Score: 2) by gringer on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:09AM

    by gringer (962) on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:09AM (#379009)

    I don't have much of an issue with Niantic, because they're pretty obvious in what they're doing, and how they're making money off the game. Previously with Ingress, businesses would pay Niantic to get their business added as a point of interest. With Pokemon Go, Niantic don't even need to wait for a request in order to get businesses to pay money, because businesses can purchase lures or incense sticks themselves.

    I like the idea of advertising businesses by getting people to actually go there prior to being exposed to the products. That encourages foot traffic and word-of-mouth advertising, which is super-effective in terms of money spent versus income gained. It also gives people the opportunity to easily avoid particular places because of moral reasons (or other more rational reasons).

    Just wait until Niantic introduce surge pricing for lures in highly-trafficked areas.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:40AM (#379018)

      Implicit in your comment is that niantic has only one way of making money, and that it is totally up-front about it.

      I think that's a completely naive view. Profiling people is a multi-billion dollar industry, why would they leave money on the table?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:20AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:20AM (#379012)

    Or when you take a bath. Busy little bees recording everything you feel. [youtube.com].

    BTW that was done 36 years ago.

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:35AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 23 2016, @11:35AM (#379016) Journal

      "Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music from UMG, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA. "

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:14PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @12:14PM (#379023)

        Sucks dude. Plays fine in the USA.

        The entire album Drums and Wires is great, one of the best "New Wave" LPs. I listened to it many times back in college.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by meustrus on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:10PM

      by meustrus (4961) on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:10PM (#379032)

      You mean like that story way back about the school in Pennsylvania that installed webcam-snooping software on the laptops they issued to students? Which they were apparently doing so that they could discipline students for taking "drugs" that were actually Dots candy? Yeah, if you really want to see where the surveillance state is going, look at schools. If we're giving up more and more of our privacy it's only because we were raised to be OK with it.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by meustrus on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:14PM

    by meustrus (4961) on Saturday July 23 2016, @01:14PM (#379033)

    Privacy issues aside, let's be clear: this is a really cool concept for a game. We like augmented reality Pokémon. And it is doing social good getting more people to exercise, but that's beside the point. If you want to protect everyone's privacy, you can't categorically block entertainment like this. So the question is: how can you build an augmented reality game that networks players together and also provide assurances that it collects the bare minimum of data it needs and throws it away when it's done without sharing? And how do we as a society move towards caring about the answer to the previous question?

    --
    If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @02:12PM (#379047)

    Simple really, Oliver Stone is just jealous that eyeballs are looking at a phone game and not at his movies.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @03:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @03:31PM (#379060)
    Just to be clear here:
    Using a smartphone game with GPS and networked cameras enabled to mine people's personal info is BAD because PRIVACY.
    Using a self-driving car with GPS and networked cameras enabled to mine people's personal info is OK because SAFETY.

    (Posted anon to avoid karma hit from self-driving car utopia zealots...)
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @04:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @04:22PM (#379077)

      GPS signals are broadcast from satellites. One way. No privacy loss simply from GPS.

      Cameras/LIDAR, no privacy loss.

      Vehicle-to-vehicle communication is a bust because it is a security risk to rely on potentially bad data from another vehicle.

      It is possible to create a privacy-respecting self-driving car. It probably won't happen, but it is possible, and even desirable.

      • (Score: 1) by driven on Saturday July 23 2016, @04:34PM

        by driven (6295) on Saturday July 23 2016, @04:34PM (#379078)

        If privacy is so important, why hasn't Capitalism solved this problem?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @05:36PM (#379093)

          You are being ironic, right?

          You aren't one of those zealots who think capitalism is an unadulterated good, right?

          Just checkin'

          • (Score: 1) by driven on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:26PM

            by driven (6295) on Saturday July 23 2016, @06:26PM (#379111)

            Let me break it down:
            - privacy = good
            - people want privacy
            - people are willing to pay for goods that respect privacy
            - therefore privacy respecting goods flourish
            On the other hand:
            - privacy invasion=bad
            - people don't want their privacy invaded
            - people don't buy goods that invade their privacy
            - therefore privacy invading goods wither on the vine

            Why is that not the case? Is it a lack of education of the average consumer? Are privacy invading goods just too alluring that people are willing to trade their privacy for in-game gems?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:02PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @08:02PM (#379148)

              Is it a lack of education of the average consumer? Are privacy invading goods just too alluring that people are willing to trade their privacy for in-game gems?

              Yes. Most people lack principles, or at least education about why surrendering their privacy is a bad idea.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 23 2016, @10:12PM (#379185)

              > Why is that not the case? Is it a lack of education of the average consumer?

              Yes. Capitalism, or really, free markets, are an illusion. In the real world any number of sources of friction reduce their efficiency and arbitrage of knowledge is one the biggest ones. Most people have no idea what their privacy is worth nor even that they are selling their privacy.

              All those sources of friction is one of, but not the only, reason capitalism is nothing more than a flawed tool and anyone who worships the ideology of capitalism is no better than any other kind of zealot.

              • (Score: 2) by fleg on Sunday July 24 2016, @03:17AM

                by fleg (128) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 24 2016, @03:17AM (#379277)

                genuine question.
                do you have an alternative?

                • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday July 24 2016, @07:25PM

                  by sjames (2882) on Sunday July 24 2016, @07:25PM (#379481) Journal

                  Not perfect by any means, but we could give up the silly notion that the invisible hand is a magic sky being and actually regulate the market. Punish the liars enough that lying costs more than it gains. Force full disclosure (or more likely, offer buyers a substantial remedy when there was inadequate disclosure). Practical examples: no more limiting 'unlimited'. No lifetime warranty that runs out in a year and only covers parts unlikely to fail. No long term rentals disguised as a sale. No more unilateral changes in terms with the notice clearly posted in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory in the basement with no lights, no stairs, and a sign saying "beware of the leopard".

                  Disclosure includes any use of your data (including sale or targeted marketing) that is not essential to the product or service being useful. No getting out of those terms by filing bankruptcy or selling the company.

            • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:48PM

              by sjames (2882) on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:48PM (#379460) Journal

              Market theory assumes information is perfect and that everyone has infinite time to make a rational decision. Reality says information is limited, often on purpose and chaffed with a constant stream of un-punished lies and people are too busy working their asses off to make fully rational well thought out buying decisions.

              Add in that people don't understand that competition (for market theory purposes) means dozens of sellers or even hundreds, not 2 or 3.

              Result: Very few markets are anything like healthy.

        • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday July 24 2016, @07:53AM

          by maxwell demon (1608) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 24 2016, @07:53AM (#379324) Journal

          Don't worry, capitalism is already solving the problem. It just takes time, and the solution may not be to your liking: At some time, we will have used up so many resources that the surveillance won't be economical any more.

          --
          The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:50AM

        by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <{axehandle} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday July 24 2016, @06:50AM (#379316)

        GPS signals are broadcast from satellites. One way. No privacy loss simply from GPS.

        Cameras/LIDAR, no privacy loss.

        No privacy loss - because the laws of physics don't allow the presence of malware that phones home?

        --
        It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 27 2016, @08:00AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 27 2016, @08:00AM (#380647)

          There is no need for the car to be connected to a network.

    • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:14PM

      by Zz9zZ (1348) on Saturday July 23 2016, @07:14PM (#379129)

      Please won't you think of the children!!

      --
      ~Tilting at windmills~
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @12:40AM (#379239)

      You can turn the camera off in the game.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @10:43AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24 2016, @10:43AM (#379358)

        For you or for them?