electrek says:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk was on SolarCity's conference call for its second quarter financial results today, which is unusual for the Chairman, but understandable considering the impending deal for Tesla to acquire the solar installer. During the call, Musk announced that SolarCity will unveil a "solar roof" as opposed to "solar modules on a roof".
[...] The CEO [Lyndon Rive] explained that it will open up a new market for the company. Rive added that there are 5 million new roofs installed every year in the US and if your roof is about to need to be replaced, you don't want to invest in solar panels to install on it since you are about to take it down, but if the solar panels are the roof and you need to redo it anyway, there's no reason not to go with a power-generating roof. Musk sees a "huge" market for the roofs nearing their end of life.
[...] Based on the comments from Musk and Rive's announcement that two products will be unveiled by the end of the year, it looks like SolarCity is about to unveil 2 solar products, one for existing roofs and one integrated with the roof. They plan to manufacture those modules at SolarCity upcoming 1 GW factory in Buffalo. Peter Rive, SolarCity's CTO, said that the company now plans for the module assembly line to start producing in Q2 2017.
Meanwhile, Bloomberg reports that:
SolarCity Corp. is facing near-term roadblocks as installations slow and the pending acquisition by Tesla Motors Inc. hinders its financing efforts. For billionaire Elon Musk, the long-term picture is more significant, as he rolls out more products and services that will make the biggest U.S. rooftop solar company a key part of his energy strategy.
[...] "Because of the Tesla Motors acquisition proposal, we experienced greater-than-usual delays in closing new project financing commitments," Chief Executive Officer Lyndon Rive said in the statement [on Tuesday, Aug 9].
[...] SolarCity's net loss in the second quarter widened to $55.5 million, or 56 cents a share, from $22.4 million, or 23 cents, a year earlier. Excluding some items, the loss was $2.32, less than the $2.53 average of 11 analysts' estimates compiled by Bloomberg. Sales rose to $185.8 million from $102.8 million.
In the meantime, SolarCity is developing a roofing product that will incorporate photovoltaic capabilities. Musk said it would appeal to homeowners who don't like the look of rooftop systems, as well as people with aging roofs.
(Score: 2) by canopic jug on Wednesday August 10 2016, @03:54PM
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Funny) by ikanreed on Wednesday August 10 2016, @03:58PM
His solution is to use enough solar panels that the usage rates of fossil fuels drop to zero and the balance of CO2 in the atmosphere slowly drop and severe weather happens less often.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @04:04PM
This will be achieved in the Year of Linux on the Desktop!
(Score: 2) by Squidious on Wednesday August 10 2016, @06:52PM
You jest, but I am in the middle of my second week of being 100% on Linux on the desktop. This is after about a year sharing time between the two while slowly migrating all my servers, development environments and build processes. Now my remote developers are considering following suit, so a couple more dominoes may fall.
The terrorists have won, game, set, match. They've scared the people into electing authoritarian regimes.
(Score: 2) by art guerrilla on Thursday August 11 2016, @12:33AM
ah, another admirable footsoldier in the jihad against Big OS, excellent...
(i'm being flippant, but serious)
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Thursday August 11 2016, @11:50PM
You mean 2003? It was over. Microsoft had won. IE specific pages dominated the Internet. Competition was non-existent. Even I had come around and used IE, but wanted something better.
Mozilla 1.0 appeared with an automatic popup blocker and suddenly the Internet was a much nicer place even if some websites didn't work. then my motherboard fried and I got an new bare bones system. I didn't want a Warez version, so I went to Microcenter and right next to the $200 copy of Windows 2000 was Red Hat Linux workstation for $49 and came with a nice printed manual.
So gave it try - and never looked back. Sure it has been a PITA sometimes but Windows can be too - just different issues. The main thing I have missed over is the lack of games, but first with the Humble Bundle and now with Steam, that issue is solved too. I know I can't get the latest AAA games from EA and Ubisoft, but those companies are so shitty that is a feature not a bug.
Now with all of the telemetry shit baked into Windows, it has been banned from my network. I no longer trust any Microsoft product with my data, and basically consider them hostile to my interests.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 2) by quintessence on Wednesday August 10 2016, @04:13PM
Adding-
What is the longevity? A roof of standard materials is expected to last for at least 30 years. You can also get premium materials that will last a lifetime.
Not to mention the adobe style popular in sunny areas are flat roofs. Will these work well (able to support someone walking across) there?
What is the weight? Several roofs are "replaced" by simply nailing new shingles to the existing ones. Can these be applied in the same fashion? If not, that seriously increases the labor costs to install.
All these things need to be factored in with an eye towards long term costs. Not to poo-poo his idea, but I'd be more interested in its performance as a roof first and foremost with solar being a novelty that might justify 15% increase in costs.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday August 11 2016, @12:54AM
Then you have required sewer vents, which have to be anywhere, not just where the roof material wants them.
Chimneys, roof vents, etc.
Also repair-ability, when something takes out the middle panel of the array.
And lets not forget basic shit like leak proof, heat expansion and contraction, snow load, and the need to shovel snow off the roof in high-snow-load areas, water leakage, and subsequent ice-damage to the panels.
All of this has to adhere to an electrical code, and be maintainable by joe home owner.
I think he is going to find that bolt on is a whole lot easier than building a roof.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by mrchew1982 on Wednesday August 10 2016, @04:20PM
For the homeowners it doesn't really matter as solar city covers any damage and provides ongoing maintenance. I'm sure that the bean counters have factored the risk in somewhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @05:43PM
It's my house. I will own every part of it, free and clear, bolt-on odds and ends included.
SolarCity is a huge problem if you want to sell your house and your buyer isn't pleasing to SolarCity. It's a huge problem if you want to do anything with the house really: loans, reroofing, etc. The whole damn business model should be illegal, at least for residential buildings.
I still want roof-as-panel design. :-(
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:02PM
I think that is only if you lease the equipment (as in you don't own it, just renting it for less than your power bill). If you own it, then they can't say anything. The most they could do is not transfer the warranty to the next person.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:32PM
You mischaracterize it as a "huge problem" - it has been problematic for some people and that's only been because its a new sort of thing to do and so the banks don't have a standardized process for dealing with what is effectively a lien on the property. But its been a few years now and they have dealt with enough of them to get a handle on it. In a couple of more years it should be a non-issue.
Meanwhile, it is a significant benefit for people who can't afford to the $15-25K up front for a solar install. If you can afford it, then great, you aren't their target market.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @04:25PM
> How well does it deal with small hail stones, say approximately 0.5 cm?
Surely at least as well as a naked solar panel. And those are minimum rated for 52mph impacts of hailstones of 1 inch in diameter by IEC 61215/61646/61730.
Solarcity is also a leased system and hail damage is covered as part of their standard contract.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:26PM
> 52mph impacts of hailstones of 1 inch in diameter
FWIW, that's essentially terminal velocity for an object of that diameter.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday August 11 2016, @01:52AM
That lease system seems unlikely to survive this transition to "being the roof".
That's worse than "owning" an apartment (condo) in a building you have no control over.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 10 2016, @11:34PM
Severe weather is becoming more common.
The problem is not that severe hailstorms are becoming more common, which might not even be so, but rather that they are common. If you have a good chance (say 20+% per decade) of losing your roof to hail damage, then that's going to affect insurance rates and living quality.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday August 10 2016, @03:57PM
Anyone else got a mental image of a house-roof strapped to the top of a Tesla Model-S?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @05:24PM
Think garage roof recharging the Tesla.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @04:16PM
We had our roof re-shingled a few years ago, took off two layers that probably went back to 1963 when the house was built. New roof guaranteed 20(+) years. Where was this solar roof when I needed it?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 10 2016, @07:32PM
In Europe, where they are not only common, but in some place you get a higher price for the electricity you sell to the grid with them.
Watch out Elon, presenting something that exists as an invention could turn you into Jobs...
I've been hoping someone would import them, because I need a new roof, and it's stupid to put panels above if I can just put panels instead, but the premium is scary.
I ain't touching Solar City stuff, because, as someone pointed out, it's my house, and panels you don't own lower its value.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:35PM
> In Europe, where they are not only common, but in some place you get a higher price for the electricity you sell to the grid with them.
Really? I sure can't find evidence of that in google.
Namely neither of these two claims:
(a) Solar roofs are common in europe
(b) Net metering from solar roofs get higher rates than regular solar panels (why would they even do that?)
(Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Wednesday August 10 2016, @09:34PM
I guess you need to travel. Integrated panels are clearly not the majority in Europe, but you see them often enough that it's not something to write home about. Wouldn't use "uncommon", and of course definitely not the "new idea" that TFS seems to imply.
And you get almost twice as much cash for your integrated panels in France:
http://www.cre.fr/operateurs/producteurs/obligations-d-achat/consulter-le-tableau-des-tarifs-en-vigueur-2016 [www.cre.fr]
I'm guessing it's to encourage people to pay extra to get a system that doesn't spoil the view. The French are pretty picky about the overall look of the place from far away (clamping down on the ugly roadside ads in recent years, but tagging and dog shit are still everywhere).
There might also be something about how some of the sunniest areas regularly see 80MPH gusts of wind, making the roof-panel gap a potential problem, but that's speculation on my part.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @12:07AM
For english readers, here is a more accessible example:
http://www.windandsun.co.uk/products/PV-Mounting-Structures/GSE-Integration-Roof-Integrated [windandsun.co.uk]
The trick is to search for solar frame integration roof. [google.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by RedBear on Wednesday August 10 2016, @05:10PM
This is what I like about Elon Musk. He really seems to understand what excites people, and that the true roadblock to the adoption of clean energy solutions like solar panels and electric cars is enthusiasm for the technology. He knew that Tesla had to first make an awesome, fast sports car in order to get people truly excited about electric cars. And he's been talking about these "attractive" solar panels for several years too. He understands that a significant portion of the potential market for rooftop solar energy are people who simply can't stand the way industrial-looking solar panels will screw up the look of their expensive house. He gets that we need to make this technology invisible and/or beautiful in order to appeal to the masses and overcome roadblocks like conservative Home Owners Associations that refuse to give people permission to install solar panels simply because they don't fit the "look" of a neighborhood.
Personally, I can't wait to see the product they've come up with that will supposedly not look as utilitarian and "bolted on" as standard solar arrays. I know there are a few solar products already existing, like I've seen one that looks like a typical slate roof product, but Tesla has a decent track record with design aesthetics and I hope they'll come up with something truly interesting to expand and excite the rooftop solar market. We'll see in a few months, I guess.
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 2) by n1 on Wednesday August 10 2016, @06:38PM
Yes! We want form over function damn it, and it better come with innovative financing/lease options whilst still being out of reach of the people who would actually tangibly benefit any time soon.
One day, after we get the next shiny thing after the next one finished, then we'll get to the wider public benefit of these trendy innovations in technology from Musk.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday August 10 2016, @06:45PM
So the exact same arc as the computer revolution, then? Yes, please.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:08PM
Even a normal solar panel roof is out of reach for most people without financing : (
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @08:38PM
> One day, after we get the next shiny thing after the next one finished, then we'll get to the wider public benefit of these trendy innovations in technology from Musk.
Has that ever not been the way it worked?
Can you name one significant technical innovation that took the market "bottom up" rather than "top down?"
Maybe selfie-sticks?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 11 2016, @01:13AM
Can you name one significant technical innovation that took the market "bottom up" rather than "top down?"
Hmm, container shipping, supertankers, fast food, escalators, vaccinations, audio mixing, printing press, newspapers, and semi-trailer trucks.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday August 11 2016, @01:47AM
Well cell phones came pretty close to that.
The time between the very expensive ones and cheap enough for joe factory job was amazingly short.
And the switch over from crap flip phones and candybars to smartphones was even shorter.
You could almost say it was driven not by the captains of industry but rather by teenagers.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @07:15PM
"It's $an_interesting_idea_with_lots_of_hype, as opposed to $a_solid_business_model !"
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @07:49PM
All $solid_business_models have been done already or claimed by someone and no one else can use them. All those not yet owned by a big corp are only biding their time until the point they sell out and they do become owned by a big corp. All that is left is unicorns.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2016, @10:02PM
Yeah, what the hell does he think he is doing? Trying to make the world a better place is highly over-rated . . .
(Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:31AM
Solar City is going to build solar ROOFS at its Buffalo plant... [buffalonews.com]
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by Gravis on Thursday August 11 2016, @01:51PM
it's likely that overall, these roofs will generate more power than if you just put modules on a roof. why? simple: safety standards. basically, you have to leave a 3 foot perimeter around your roof so that firemen can walk on it. however, if your roof is solar panels then you get the entire area. i am interested in knowing about how these will all be electrically connected because connecting directly to an inverter will make it so that if one panel is shaded, it won't diminish the electricity generated by other panels. the good news is that since these are the roof, they have the advantage of being able to hide all the electrical stuff in the attic of each house.