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posted by martyb on Wednesday September 21 2016, @06:37AM   Printer-friendly
from the I-see-what-they-did-there dept.

People born without sight appear to solve math problems using visual areas of the brain.

A functional MRI study of 17 people blind since birth found that areas of visual cortex became active when the participants were asked to solve algebra problems, a team from Johns Hopkins reports in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"And as the equations get harder and harder, activity in these areas goes up in a blind person," says Marina Bedny, an author of the study and an assistant professor in the department of psychological and brain sciences at Johns Hopkins University.

In 19 sighted people doing the same problems, visual areas of the brain showed no increase in activity.

"That really suggests that yes, blind individuals appear to be doing math with their visual cortex," Bedny says.

Can they reduce math phobia while the subjects are in the MRI machines?


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  • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by jimshatt on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:29AM

    by jimshatt (978) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:29AM (#404697) Journal
    Luckily, that's all in the past, as there aren't any blind people anymore?
    • (Score: 2) by jimshatt on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:31AM

      by jimshatt (978) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:31AM (#404699) Journal
      Huh? The original submission didn't use past tense. Nor the article. What's with that, ed?
      • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday September 21 2016, @10:53AM

        by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 21 2016, @10:53AM (#404736) Journal

        Huh? The original submission didn't use past tense. Nor the article. What's with that, ed?

        We have had submissions which used the original story's title and were rightly called out for having used a sensationalistic, inaccurate, or otherwise inappropriate title.

        Researchers performed a study and when they asked people who were blind-since-birth to perform algebra, they observed activity in those people's visual cortex. These activities happened in the past. My thinking at the time was analogous to: "When I picked up the glass of water and turned it over, water poured onto the floor." Those are things that happened in the past. That is what led me to change the title to the past tense.

        It was 10PM when I edited the story and should probably have gone to bed already.

        I've restored the title of the story to that of the original submission.

        Editing is not always as easy as it seems, but if you (or anyone else!) feel up to the challenge, we could always use more editors! Feel free to reply here or ask for one of the editors on IRC [soylentnews.org].

        --
        Wit is intellect, dancing.
  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:31AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @08:31AM (#404698)

    I expected the link beyond the quoted text to go to the source, clicked it, and wondered why it talked about faces, not mathematics.

    A proper attribution line containing the source link would have removed that source of confusion.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 21 2016, @11:50AM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @11:50AM (#404746) Journal

      The link at the bottom was to a recent story run on Soylent about researchers using MRIs to induce subjects to have certain feelings about faces; basically, to use the MRI to modify how you think. That was the relevance of the link, to induce people in the MRI being monitored for math usage to also alter how they feel about math.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @12:47PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @12:47PM (#404762)

        Maybe you didn't read my comment. I didn't complain about the relevancy of the linked page, I complained about it being misleading.

        A proper attribution line before the quoted block, containing the link to the source, would have cleared that up, as then there would have been no doubt that the link following the block wasn't the link to the source.

      • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:48PM

        by opinionated_science (4031) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:48PM (#404860)

        I saw that, but the PNAS link is just an abstract an no actual article. I want to see whether they used a proper control, as fMRI has a very dodgy scientific basis.

        The interesting question *I* would like to see answered is "can a normally sighted person improved cognitive activities by suppressing vision?" (e.g. darkened room).

        I've really improved my sleep by blacking out the room, although it was prompted by staying an airport hotel and sleeping off jetlag, rather than reading an article!

  • (Score: 1) by fraxinus-tree on Wednesday September 21 2016, @09:22AM

    by fraxinus-tree (5590) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @09:22AM (#404714)

    Never, ever imagined.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @09:24AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @09:24AM (#404715)

      I'm actually surprised that regular people didn't use their visual cortex as well. or maybe not everyone associates algebra to geometry...

      • (Score: 1) by fraxinus-tree on Wednesday September 21 2016, @11:04AM

        by fraxinus-tree (5590) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @11:04AM (#404738)

        They do. I remember reading about that

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Francis on Wednesday September 21 2016, @04:27PM

        by Francis (5544) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @04:27PM (#404829)

        The issue is that you can't use the same part of the brain for two things simultaneously. You wind up with interference between the two processes. That's why when people multi-task on similar tasks they wind up so stressed, they're forced to switch back and forth very rapidly.

        People who don't use a particular sense are in a position where they've got neurons going unused and the brain has a tendency to find some way of using it effectively or it doesn't grow the neurons.

        As far as I can tell, the study doesn't make any assertions about whether or not blind mathematicians are better than ones that can see. But, I'd suspect that on average they're better at the abstract as they don't need to break the bad habit of trying to visualize things and they probably make fewer errors in what they write down. But, on the downside, if you can't see, that's going to require a lot more memory skill in order to determine where you are in the process as I don't think it's possible to write in braille.

        Personally, I've got synesthesia and I tend to use the visual cortex for all sorts of non-standard things. I try very hard to avoid visualizing or even understanding what I'm doing while I'm doing it. I just focus on whether what I'm doing is mathematically valid. Once I've got a result, then I go back and verify that things make sense and try to understand what I've done. The big advantage of doing it like that is that I'm less likely to block myself from the solution and I'm less likely to be learning wrong things. Not to mention that it makes no sense at all to try and understand something if you don't even know what it is. Imagine trying to understand a calliope if you don't even know what that is.

        But, it comes at a cost. I can't look at things and touch things at the same time. And my vision is significantly impaired if I'm listening. It's still probably worth it as the ability to view things in a purely abstract way is invaluable more often than not.

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:33PM

          by Arik (4543) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:33PM (#404853) Journal
          "I don't think it's possible to write in braille."

          Really? How do you imagine people use it then?

          http://www.pathstoliteracy.org/tools-writing-braille

          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday September 21 2016, @07:04PM

            by Francis (5544) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @07:04PM (#404890)

            You're link pretty much confirms what I said about it being impossible to write braille.

            Also, it's going to be rather tough to write complex mathematical formulas with any sort of typewriter, hence the invention of Latex and similar.

        • (Score: 2) by jdavidb on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:54PM

          by jdavidb (5690) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @05:54PM (#404862) Homepage Journal

          And my vision is significantly impaired if I'm listening

          Interesting. I am pretty sure I don't have synesthesia, but my hearing gets impaired by all sorts of weird things that have nothing to do with hearing. I wonder if it's related, possibly even a milder form.

          --
          ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Francis on Wednesday September 21 2016, @07:12PM

            by Francis (5544) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @07:12PM (#404891)

            There's many different kinds and some of them are more easily noticed than others. There's upwards of 20 senses that humans have and when any of them get entangled so that stimulating one of them results in a sensation in another, you wind up with synesthesia. It's just that the less commonly noted senses like balance and acceleration get messed up you get a lack of balance or coordination, and aren't usually noted as synesthesia even though they might be.

            The people who literally see colors when they hear sounds or feel textures when they read words are a minority of the people within the group of synesthetes. The more common thing is for things to just have an odd feel to them that's distinct and automatic, but not really describable in an obvious way.

            For me, I've got second sight, so when I'm riding my motorcycle and the rear wheel rolls along a manhole cover, I literally see the wheel sliding around the cover, rather than feel the wheel slide over the cover. Same goes when I'm rummaging around in my backpack, I can't do that with my eyes open, I have to close my eyes because seeing interferes with what I'm feeling.

            It's kind of cool, but it is rather disorienting at first and takes a certain amount of time to get used to. But, it's really useful to be able to see a bill fallout of your pocket based purely on the feel of it rubbing against the outside of the pants. Most people can't even feel that, let alone see it.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @10:35PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @10:35PM (#404937)

              It's always amusing when people randomly moderate things.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @12:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @12:43PM (#404760)

      Yeah, once again it seems like the fMRI users miss the point -- they have a hammer (not a very good one) and everything looks like a nail. Recently I saw something interesting about fMRI (sorry no reference), with current technology it takes about a second to form an image. Even at the relatively slow "clock" speed of the nervous system, looking at a one second average is really crude.

      It's the brain doing algebra, the brain is "plastic" -- while some tasks are commonly done in one area, many parts of the brain can and do adapt to perform other tasks.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @02:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2016, @02:01PM (#404777)

    Euler was one of the greatest and most prolific mathematicians who ever lived, despite being blind in one eye from age 31 (Frederick the Great called him "Cyclops"), and totally blind from age 58. Neither event seemed to hamper his productivity. He died from a brain hemorrhage at age 76.

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday September 21 2016, @06:50PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @06:50PM (#404888)

      I was gonna try to draw a parallel with Beethoven, but I ended up with yet another car analogy.

  • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Wednesday September 21 2016, @03:12PM

    by opinionated_science (4031) on Wednesday September 21 2016, @03:12PM (#404802)

    has anyone read the actual article? All I can find on the PNAS is an abstract and grand claims....