from the some-folks-don't-need-flexibility,-apparently dept.
The Register reports
Redmond kicks off the era of the force-fed security update
Microsoft is kicking off a controversial new security program this month by packaging all of its security updates into a single payload.
The October security release introduces Redmond's new policy of bundling all security bulletins as one download. While more convenient for end users, who now get just one bundle, the move will irk many administrators, who had preferred to individually test and apply each patch to avoid compatibility problems.
Krebs on Security notes
Microsoft: No More Pick-and-Choose Patching
Starting this month, home and business Windows users will no longer be able to pick and choose which updates to install and which to leave for another time. For example, I've often advised home users to hold off on installing .NET updates until all other patches for the month are applied--reasoning that .NET updates are very large and in my experience have frequently been found to be the source of problems when applying huge numbers of patches simultaneously.
But that cafeteria-style patching goes out the...err...Windows with this month's release.
[...]Microsoft's patch policy changes are slightly different for home versus business customers. Consumers on Windows 7 Service Pack 1 and Windows 8.1 will henceforth receive what Redmond is calling a "Monthly Rollup," which addresses both security issues and reliability issues in a single update. The "Security-only updates" option--intended for enterprises and not available via Windows Update--will only include new security patches that are released for that month.
What this means is that if any part of the patch bundle breaks, the only option is to remove the entire bundle (instead of the offending patch, as was previously possible). I have no doubt this simplifies things for Microsoft and likely saves them a ton of money, but my concern is this will leave end-users unable to apply critical patches simply due to a single patch breaking something.
[...]The smartest option is probably to ditch [Adobe Flash] once and for all and significantly increase the security of your system in the process. I've got more on that approach (as well as slightly less radical solutions) in A Month Without Adobe Flash Player.
[...]Finally, Adobe released security updates that correct a whopping 71 flaws in its PDF Reader and Acrobat products. If you use either of these software packages, please take a moment to update them.
Has this change in method and control altered the thinking of any Soylentils WRT their choices of software supplier?
Now for the biggie: Has anyone convinced his boss to depart the Redmond path?
Previous: Windows 7 and 8.1 Moving to Windows 10’s Cumulative Update Model
Related Stories
Two users have submitted stories about Microsoft's intended change to how it provides updates and patches in the future.:
Running Windows 7 or 8? From October, Monthly Patches Are All-or-Nothing
El Reg reports
As of October, users of Windows 7, Windows 8, and various server products can [say farewell to] a Patch Tuesday of downloading multiple files: Microsoft is implementing the monthly patch rollup it promised in May.
At the same time, however, Redmond has decided to kill off individual security patches, something that might not please sysadmins. Instead, a monthly security-only rollup will collect "all of the security patches for that month into a single update".
[...] Instead of individual patches for each platform, for Windows 7.1 SP1, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2012, and Windows Server 2012 R2, there'll be a single set of updates.
The monthly rollups will include security patches and bug fixes, and each month's update will include the previous month's. That will reduce the chance that an update fails because it's got a dependency on a prior update (which, as Microsoft's Nathan Mercer writes in the announcement, can often mean hunting for a file that's hard to find).
[...] Servicing Stack and Adobe Flash won't be included in the rollups.
[Continues...]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @09:53AM
They just get worse and worse. Computers no longer belong to the users, but to the corps that sell the software. They wouldn't have dared do this years ago, but they've been steadily acclimating users to taking it rough and hard...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:16AM
Pretty sure Intel/AMD are going to move back to timesharing rental agreements for processor features.
You think I am kidding, but just look at those crypto unlock keys Intel did a few years back, and think about all the restrictions that the ME firmware can allow/disallow for the right price and perhaps even utilizing time limited keys.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @05:54PM
True innovation!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @08:19PM
There have been recent articles mentioning that Linux's Benevolent Dictator for Life prefers Intel over ARM. [google.com]
One wonders how long that will be the case with him.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by migz on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:30AM
I got off this roller coaster narely 10 years ago. I've wasted enough of my live keeping M$ crap going, and they have made a fortune. But I won't waste my time being paid to deal with their crap. Today I just say "I don't do windows".
Just go linux / osx / bsd , and keep going, even if it means you have to change jobs.
Lead by example, or stop whinging.
(Score: -1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:45AM
Just go linux / osx / bsd , and keep going, even if it means you have to change jobs.
Enjoy unemployment, living like RMS, eating your own shit, etc, etc, etc.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Unixnut on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:08AM
I don't know, in 2001 I started doing Linux as well as being a windows admin. By 2003 I was making so much more money being a Linux admin (lots of work migrating NT boxen to Linux for SMEs), that I ended up specialising in Linux/Unix machines, and I "don't do windows" since then.
The last windows I did admin for was 2000/NT, and the last I actually used was windows XP. From what I can see, things have just gone downhill from there in MS land.
I know that I make at least a third more over my windows admin colleagues, primarily because MCSE's are a dime a dozen, as are ".NET developers" round here.
I am sure RMS could make a metric ton of money, if he wanted to. The fact is he chose the life he leads, he values his principles and freedom that much that he won't sacrifice them for cash. I can respect that.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:59AM
Congratulations, you've just managed to combine Linux advocacy, Microsoft bashing, celebrity hero worship, and the commonly held belief that the poor are poor because they choose to be poor, all in the same comment.
You're agreeing with every popularly held belief here, dude. It's no wonder a trendy dude like you is swimming in money and pussy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @08:25PM
I make at least a third more over my Windows admin colleagues, primarily because [MCSEs] are a dime a dozen
...and another piece of the zeitgeist:
If your workplace isn't using Free Software *n?x, that place is in a distinct minority.
We've also had some stories here which have mentioned how the world is increasingly embracing openness in document formats and software.
Dave Richards is admin for the City of Largo, Florida.
Early in the century, he started a rapid shift away from M$ and to Linux.
He has the remaining legacy Windoze apps on server(s)[1] (and, one assumes, diligently maintains clones of those boxes, anticipating failure).
Mostly, his servers run Linux and FOSS apps.
Most of the worker bees have thin clients running Linux.
[1] M$ licensing and needing multiple servers to comply with those just absolutely sucks.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by BK on Sunday October 16 2016, @01:31PM
I get linux and bsd, but MS is really just converting to the OSX model. Why wouldn't you be a proponent? Or is this just (well deserved) reflex MS bashing?
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 3, Offtopic) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 16 2016, @02:30PM
I was going to say something similar. It's thanks to Apple that the current "renting" of hardware to users is now palatable? They have to "approve" all software you install in iOS? Microsoft has been working towards that now since Windows 8 now that it's considered acceptable. Giving money to Apple is funding the loss of your freedom to use your hardware as you wish.
(Score: 1) by lcklspckl on Sunday October 16 2016, @04:49PM
I agree with what you say about iOS. I do not use Apple phones. However, I have Windows 10 installed on my MacBook Pro for work and in light of that, thinking of putting a Linux on there too. What you say may be true for iOS, but it's certainly not for OSX. I install third party software, Windows emulation software, compiled by me on the machine itself software. Although I do have to "clear" third-party software since more than a couple versions ago. I like the extra block/check, if not just to keep me on my toes. Anyway, holding up iOS as evidence of the walled-garden is pointing to its poster-child, and giving money to Apple indeed funds this. However, it also funds my ability to install whatever "app" I damn well choose on their OSX side and the command line is also very useful. This is what the original poster wrote as well and it bears repeating that iOS is not the entirety of Apple.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 16 2016, @05:21PM
It's still funding and rewarding the company that's doing it. I hate to pull a Godwin, but it's like saying "Yeah, Hitler's an evil, racist bastard and all, but he makes the trains run on time so he's okay".
(Score: 1) by lcklspckl on Sunday October 16 2016, @06:34PM
I don't know about any of that other stuff, but it's high time our trains ran right. Completely agree.
(Score: 2) by BK on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:47PM
I for one just want a final solution to the trains thing. And by Godwin, I declare this thread closed.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday October 17 2016, @05:03AM
[...] MS is really just converting to the OSX model.
I'm not seeing much similarity. Is there a Microsoft analogue to Darwin?
(Score: 3, Informative) by SDRefugee on Sunday October 16 2016, @03:57PM
I'd used/supported MS products for close to 20 years, up till I retired in 2010. At that time, my home systems were dual-boot with Win7/Linux. I decided I was done with *my* computer being dictated to by MS. So, like pulling a festering tooth from my jaw, I deleted the Win7 partition and haven't looked back.. I'm torn between feeling sorry for those who are still stuck using MS products (or just *think* they have to use MS products) AND laughing my damn ass off at the crap MS pulls now on those who *still* use their crap....
America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
(Score: 2) by srobert on Sunday October 16 2016, @04:26PM
"Just go linux / osx / bsd , and keep going, even if it means you have to change jobs."
I got off Windows for my personal computing over 20 years ago. But as for my work, I'm stuck with it. The applications that are critical in my profession are only available in MS Windows. I wish more could be done to persuade the software vendors to port their work to other platforms but unless that happens, any employer I'd be qualified to work for will be using Windows.
(Score: 2) by migz on Sunday October 16 2016, @05:13PM
What's your profession? What are the applications?
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Monday October 17 2016, @12:33AM
I did the switch back in about 2003 at home. I basically was building a new bare-bones box and didn't want a warez copy of Windows. So I went to Micro Center, and right next to the $199 Windows 2000 professional was $49 Red Hat workstation 7. I had played a bit with Linux before and loved Unix, so why not? Security was a big concern then too with new Windows boxes getting pwned before their owners had even used them.
There weren’t many games, and some other things were a PITA or impossible, but even then pretty much everything I needed to do, I could on Linux. And when I migrated Ubuntu with it's package manager a few years later, I have never looked back.
Meanwhile at work our large enterprise was 100% based on Windows. No exceptions, not even for critical applications like Oracle that were native Linux, none at all. After working there about 10 years, a small chink in the armour. I had been pushing for Linux (or some other Unix like Solaris) to run our large scale databases for many years, and finally management agreed to let us test it, if I could write a good enough justification. So I spent the next several weeks writing it, and got approval for a test. Still not sure we had complete approval, I installed our enterprise's first Linux system, and the rest was history. Now we have over 1,000 Linux servers and entire groups managing them.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:58AM
Well I'd like to install the Monthly Rollup on Windows 8.1, but Windows Update never finishes checking for updates. The wuauserv service just pegs one core of a CPU and does nothing. It's not downloading anything, it's not writing anything to disk, it's just eating CPU.
I've tried resetting the SoftwareDistribution directory, and I've tried the Windows Update Diagnostic wizard. No luck.
Same problem is occurring on two different installs of Windows 8.1.
This is gonna be great for everyone when wuauserv drains everyone's batteries!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Marand on Sunday October 16 2016, @12:38PM
Well I'd like to install the Monthly Rollup on Windows 8.1, but Windows Update never finishes checking for updates. The wuauserv service just pegs one core of a CPU and does nothing. It's not downloading anything, it's not writing anything to disk, it's just eating CPU.
I had the same thing happen on the very-rarely-used Windows 7 install I keep on a spare hard disk. General consensus from people that use Windows regularly seems to be "if you wait long enough it will finish; it's your own fault for not updating immediately and frequently" because it often goes months between boots, sometimes more. It was like that for over a year and just never got better.
I'd occasionally leave it running overnight to see if it could finally get security updates, but nope. I even tried waiting something like 18-20 hours once and it never finished, and the response from Microsoft apologists was basically "it's because you've gone too long without updates, it might take up to a week to finish but that's normal." There's nothing normal about that shit at all, and nobody should be defending it.
(For some additional Windows woes, the rest of that story follows since it's tangentially related to Windows' wonderful update process)
They eventually put out an update to the Windows updater that could be user-installed, and should supposedly fix the problem, but attempting to install it just ended in errors complaining that my (legitimate, installed-from-DVD) installation of Windows was ineligible for the update (I think it was trying to say I had pre-SP1 W7, which was wrong) and thus failed to install anything.
So, I finally gave up and tried to see if the W10 update would work since nothing else did. I figured maybe I could update to 10 and then rollback to 7, maybe get shit fixed in the process. LOL nope. The W10 updater also wouldn't work, suggesting I instead create a bootable installer to update. The bootable installer seemed promising, but also errored out. With every possibility exhausted, I thought I was going to be stuck with a W7 system that was going to be unable to receive updates ever again.
Well, no such problem, because that installer trashed the partition and made it unbootable. So, I ended up having to reinstall. I would have preferred putting 7 back on, but digging out the install disc from whatever box it was in, plus dealing with all the updates, and possibly getting stuck back in the same place i started wasn't really an option. Now that partition has W10 on it, with a registry edit to set wired connections to be considered "metered" in an attempt to limit its automatic installation of anything it wants.
Not that it matters, really. Thanks to how horrible W10 updates have been managed since then, I'm wary of even attempting to boot that partition. I fear that the next time it boots, it will trash its own partition, write garbage over my Linux disk, and then kick a nearby puppy just to be sure I know it's evil incarnate.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @09:30PM
They eventually put out an update to the Windows updater that could be user-installed, and should supposedly fix the problem,
But don't mention KB3161647 or KB3163023 or anything, because that would be far too helpful.
Please give a long winded unhelpful anecdote instead.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday October 16 2016, @09:49PM
Looks like it helped bring attention to it, so I guess it did help after all. FWIW, I had to download a standalone update so I wasn't aware of a KB number to list. Plus this was months ago and an OS I infrequently use; expecting me to memorise that shit is as silly as me expecting you to remember who committed specific patches to Debian during a random discussion.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:26PM
OK let me explain the fix without using numbers. The version of Windows Update Client released in March was buggy, and Microsoft did put out a new version of Windows Update Client in June which fixed the problem of long update scan times, but the fix was hidden inside a large optional update.
Of course the comment which mentioned the KB numbers is modded down since we're all penguin loving Linux fanatics around here and nobody should need to fix Windows because nobody uses Windows for any reason ever.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:50PM
OK let me explain the fix without using numbers. The version of Windows Update Client released in March was buggy, and Microsoft did put out a new version of Windows Update Client in June which fixed the problem of long update scan times, but the fix was hidden inside a large optional update.
I just checked and that June one that "fixed the problem" was distributed in that "update rollup" they released. That's the one I tried that informed me that I wasn't using Win7 SP1 (when I was), and thus refused to install. Which was kind of the point of the story, that Microsoft's entire update process can get so massively buggered that it can't even install the update required to fix the update system.
Of course the comment which mentioned the KB numbers is modded down since we're all penguin loving Linux fanatics around here and nobody should need to fix Windows because nobody uses Windows for any reason ever.
More likely because of the tone of the comment than the fact that it's about Windows. Giving useful info doesn't give free license to be a shithead.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @01:45AM
More likely because of the tone of the comment than the fact that it's about Windows. Giving useful info doesn't give free license to be a shithead.
You found the time to write a lengthy post containing your life story, but you couldn't find the time to locate the knowledge base page for an update that you installed recently, forcing anyone who read your worthless post to go find it themselves with no hint of which update it was. Your life story was obviously more valuable because you are a very important asshole. Fuck you.
(Score: 2) by Techwolf on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:26PM
I had a window 7 in vmware get the same stuck updating loop. How I fixed it was googleing the problem and eventually finding a blog page that describes how to update the updater itself manually. Had to do a few steps to fully disable the updater, reboot without networking at all, install the updated updater, reboot, turn networking back on and try to update. It worked. The other problem I had was IE 11 update that was failing due to already had IE 11 installed. The fix was to use the command line to un-install the IE updates, reboot, run the updater to 'fix' the bad update. Basically it will just remove the update from the listing. Then go to MS site and manually download and install IE 11.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:41PM
That's funny. I just searched the Microsoft support knowledge base. I found the latest Windows Update installed by Windows Update was not the latest Windows Update. I downloaded and installed the latest Windows Update. Problem solved. Bloggers are goddamn idiots.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Monday October 17 2016, @12:07AM
It's good that it eventually worked out for you, but that wasn't the case for me. Ultimately the problem for me was that nothing I did would actually succeed in getting a manual update of the updater to work because somehow, somewhere, over the years the update process made a mess somewhere that completely fucked everything, so updater updates wouldn't install either.
I've been told before that it's my fault this happened because I don't reinstall the OS as a form of preventative care, but frankly that's bullshit. I've been able to keep a Debian install running for over a decade through hardware changes and release upgrades (and conversion from 32bit to 64bit), but I'm supposed to accept that it's just SOP to reinstall Windows every year or two? If it'd done this during an upgrade between major versions it'd make more sense, but security updates within a release should be rock-solid.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with people using or even liking Windows. I'm no OS zealot, and they all have a place, even if I don't like using them all. I'm just consistently amazed at how fucked the update process in Windows can be.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @12:49PM
Have been suffering that problem since more than a year with the cpu pegged overnight with the wuauserv service when trying to manually get updates since was suicidal to let automated updates enabled..
Coincedentaly last month all problems went away and updates were found in matter of minutes. Now a couple of weeks later they do this and only release bundled Convenience+Security megapatches.
Coincidence?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @04:03PM
Windows update is about as fast as a snail on flypaper. In the time it takes to do a simple Windows update I could have installed an Ubuntu flavor from a USB stick. I don't get why it uses 100% disc activity and downloads updates like it's on a 14.4kbps dialup connection. The only reason I still have a Windows partition is for gaming, everything else get booted to Ubuntu.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @01:00AM
In the time it takes to do a simple Windows update I could have installed an Ubuntu flavor from a USB stick.
Or even from floppy disks (finding a working floppy drive included).
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RamiK on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:33AM
If "enterprise software" vendors think it's fine to save a few developer hours by holding off work and instructing admins to keep a security patch uninstalled, they have another thing coming to them.
This change will either push some companies to deploy \ roll their own linux distributions, or keep up with Windows. It's good for the windows user base. It's good for the linux user base. It reduces the workload off admins. It increases the demand for maintenance developers.
Overall, a change for the better.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 16 2016, @02:34PM
... unless of course they use some commercial product that gets broken by one of the updates. In that case, they're basically screwed, because after all, it's not their computer anymore anyway.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RamiK on Sunday October 16 2016, @06:17PM
What is this, a welfare economy? Too stupid to fail? If they can't make smart business choices and intelligent acquisitions in infrastructure, let them fall.
How many decades Red Hat been servicing workstations? How many admins and developers been warning corporations Microsoft is a consumer toy OS that has no place on the corporate network? Every half wit duel-booting teen says the only thing keeping them on Windows is games... Isn't that a pretty thick hint on the state of the product?
This is stupid. Customers saving money by going with cheaper vendor offers that out-source the development and don't maintain a local response-team should have known the risks when they jumped in bed with those companies and products. They've been voiced by the competition and their own staff time and again.
How many office drones reboot their workstations once or twice a day when windows decides to take a break? How many calls the local admins get in an average corporate floor a day? Does that sound like a reliable product to build one's business on to you? Would you buy a fleet of trucks that needs that kind of in-house maintenance?
This is absurd. Stop using crap or just fall off the market for all I care.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @08:38PM
MICROS~1 is way ahead of you.
So, it's not only a commercial product, it's Redmond's own junk.
Pfffff.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @01:13PM
I heard of a tool wsusoffline or something, which claims to be able to download patches after you've selected them.
Okay, so let's assume this works. Can I take a newly formatted and quickly restored backup of Win7 and use
wsusoffline, select what I want, quickly update AND SAVE these updates OFFLINE so if I need to reinstall
Win7, I can do so OFFLINE?
That's one of the things I like about apt-get. I can instruct it to download packages only, save them on a flash
drive or whatever and and reinstall when need be.
That said, without using any 3rd party program like wsusoffline, I setup one box and ran grc.com's "never10"
program on it. It said it disabled updating to Win10 and along with it it had me install some type of update
for Windows Update itself. It took many tries and several hours but it finally updated. I'm not sure I want to
try that again, so I hope someone can tell me what method works best for downloading, saving, and reinstallation
of updates from storage medium? TIA
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @08:43PM
I was hoping someone would mention The Linux Way before I got to the bottom of the page.
Yeah, breaking the task into pieces which can be done separately is absolutely the way to go.
(There's also something called "APT on CD".)
.
BTW, you should avoid inserting hard line breaks randomly in the middle of sentences in HTML text.
Not everyone has the same screen width as you do and different folks use different fonts/font sizes.
N.B. Now, frequent **paragraph** breaks -are- welcomed by me.
The post by lcklspckl, above, as an example, I found a bit difficult to read.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @11:42AM
thank you
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @11:48PM
Okay, so let's assume this works. Can I take a newly formatted and quickly restored backup of Win7 and use
wsusoffline, select what I want, quickly update AND SAVE these updates OFFLINE so if I need to reinstall
Win7, I can do so OFFLINE?
Yes. [wsusoffline.net]
The nice thing about WSUS Offline is that you control what patches go into the machine.
Or you could just setup a Windows 7 install with the patches you want as a base, then neutralize it into a deployable image (here [microsoft.com]
)
Still doesn't beat the convenience of linux management, but at least there's something you can do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @11:42AM
thank you.
(Score: 2) by FrogBlast on Sunday October 16 2016, @02:51PM
I've being doing photogrammetric reconstructions for VR lately. They've taken up to 48 hours of continuous processing. At least once already, it's been impossible to complete a reconstruction without Windows updating and rebooting itself against my wishes.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NCommander on Sunday October 16 2016, @04:02PM
If you're stuck with Windows, you're probably best off migrating it to a server version, which can disable the need for the autoreboot. Obnoxious none the less.
Still always moving
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 16 2016, @04:39PM
Can't you just disable the window's update service.
IIRC msconfig->startup, then unchecked the service. I don't know if the newer versions disabled this, but it worked for Win8 and older. You can periodically re-ebable the service to get the updates when you want
(Score: 2) by Techwolf on Sunday October 16 2016, @10:19PM
What about XP? I still run it in vmware due to hardware that requires it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @01:53AM
Linux XP was discontinued in 2010, friend. You should wipe your install and use Fedora instead.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Monday October 17 2016, @04:39AM
Honest question here, but what hardware is it?
Usually a lot of times, people state its hardware that prevents them from upgrading off older NT versions, but 32-bit versions of Visita and later can use XP drivers. The problem you run into is the installer does one of two things stupidly:
1. bad version check
2. Didn't sign the driver at all
1. can be futzed with the application compatibility kit (which also works with getting LoB apps to run on newer Windows), 2. is more annoying as you have to unpack the installer, grab the driver, sign it, and install it. There are ways to disable the signing requirement temporary but you have to switch the system into test signing mode, then poke the BCD. I can look it up for you.
Still always moving