In Mexico, organised crime reaches everywhere, even into the smallest village - except for one small town in the state of Michoacan. Led by local women, the people of Cheran rose up to defend their forest from armed loggers - and kicked out police and politicians at the same time.
...
Early on Friday 15 April 2011, Cheran's levantamiento, or uprising, began. On the road coming down from the forest outside Margarita's home, the women blockaded the loggers' pick-ups and took some of them hostage. As the church bells of El Calvario rang out and fireworks exploded in the dawn sky alerting the community to danger, the people of Cheran came running to help. It was tense - hotheads had to be persuaded by the women not to string up the hostages from an ancient tree outside the church.
...
The municipal police arrived with the mayor, and armed men came to free their hostage-friends. There was an uneasy stand-off between the townspeople, the loggers and the police. It ended after two loggers were injured by a young man who shot a firework directly at them. And Cheran - a town of some 20,000 people - began its journey towards self-government."It makes me want to cry remembering that day," says Margarita. "It was like a horror movie - but it was the best thing we could have done."
The police and local politicians were quickly driven out of town because the people suspected they were collaborating with the criminal networks. Political parties were banned - and still are - because they were deemed to have caused divisions between people. And each of the four districts of Cheran elected representatives to a ruling town council. In many ways, Cheran - a town populated by the indigenous Purepecha people - returned to its roots: to the ancient way of doing things, independent of outsiders.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Bot on Monday October 24 2016, @06:20PM
Politics come from POLIS, Greek for city.
A city is about the biggest manageable unit for citizen to express their opinion. When you go to nation or confederation or world government, representatives get so powerful that they can screw citizen over.
Note, I don't imply places like the medieval communes were a peaceful oasis, but they kept doing everything that nowadays is taboo for both the left and the right (corporativism, preservation of local interest, above the ability of money to buy everything, and over collectivism) and they were more culturally interesting than today's wasteland. Also I think they charged less taxes.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 24 2016, @06:39PM
> Also I think they charged less taxes.
Wishful thinking. between the bread tax, the bridge tax, the salt tax, the harvest tax, the Church tax and a few other annoyances, those huge castles weren't only there to shield the rich from foreign people...
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Monday October 24 2016, @10:39PM
No he was right they paid pocket change compared to nowadays: http://www.medievalists.net/2015/07/16/how-much-taxes-did-a-medieval-peasant-pay-the-numbers-from-sweden/ [medievalists.net] until https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/07/03/tea-taxes-and-the-revolution/ [foreignpolicy.com]
Putting it altogether, it was around 10% church, 10% lord\monarch on average. Maybe 5% more in indirect taxes but those were very rare. In Elizabethan times it was 15-20% total as well. But the colonies paid, at most including everything, 5%.
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(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 24 2016, @10:53PM
First, he said "medieval", which doesn't typically apply to the colonists who were definitely post-renaissance.
Second, the functions performed by governments have evolved quite a bit since, especially if you're thinking in "colonists" terms.
Apples, meet durian.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:09AM
I provided two sources separately discussing the high-medieval period and the later early colonial one precisely to demonstrate even the added burden of maintaining the colonial efforts didn't increase taxation.
Besides, for every added governmental function, there been greater increases in productivity. Especially when you take privatization (East India Company wasn't the first of it's kind and reach) into account.
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(Score: 2) by richtopia on Monday October 24 2016, @07:30PM
The description of the events sounds like mob rule. While better than the previous corrupt government I am skeptical for the future.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @07:49PM
I prefer to call it "direct democracy."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @08:45PM
Apropos of nothing in particular, note that "direct democracy" was not at all what the Founding Fathers of the USA wanted. Just so you know.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:06AM
Apropos of nothing in particular, note that "direct democracy" was not at all what the Founding Fathers of the USA wanted. Just so you know.
In a world where news took weeks or months to travel, direct democracy wasn't even an option.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday October 24 2016, @09:18PM
The description of the events sounds like mob rule
While I think you're right and it does sound a bit like mob rule, when the mob is made up of people you're related to it probably becomes a bit more benign.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by bob_super on Tuesday October 25 2016, @04:16PM
Until your relatives decide that you should be gang-raped and burnt for not being frigid.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday October 24 2016, @09:32PM
You could say our current government is mob rule - - but the mob is a small group of ultra wealthy.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:02AM
In other words, every rule is a mob rule, except for tyrannic dictator rule, but even tyrannic dictators need their supporting mob to exert their rule.
Adherence of ruling mob to laws and principles is essentially voluntary, even the most "moral" governments have freedom to transgress them.
Laws and principles are only as strong as the balance between forces in society who struck a deal which became the law.
We are quite idiotic generation to neglect necessity of having balance for having freedom.
On the other hand, in global proportions, seeking and restoring balance generated wast wars over centuries.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday October 24 2016, @11:16PM
Sounds like they went from skeptical about the present to skeptical about the future. I guess that's a sort of progress?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tibman on Monday October 24 2016, @07:56PM
If people dressed nicer than their "class" then they were punished. Lower class couldn't own property so collectivism was really vertical collectivism. Which is probably the "culturally interesting" part for you.
Normal individuals can't set trends or build castles so a society based on stronger individual rights will appear as a wasteland to you. You prefer when some prince marries a child and the day becomes an annual party (Oktoberfest). The townspeople wear their traditional outfit/dirndl/lederhosen/tracht and foreigners go "wow, look at this culture". Then the foreigners go home and make fun of some guy with cowboy boots/hat climbing out of a rusty truck. "He's a stupid hillbilly with no education *laugh and point*." Completely missing the point that the cowboy is unique american culture. The harley rider in leathers. The civil war reenactors. Log cabins. Older (brick) cities. Just because modern people with modern sensibilities reject their culture that doesn't mean there's a culture wasteland. There's plenty of spray paint covered high-rises in Germany with people shooting-up drugs on the sidewalk out front. Those people probably look at southern lederhosen wearing people as uneducated country simpletons acting out dead history for tourism money.
My point is today is a wasteland for you because it isn't foreign and/or well defined by a higher authority (that is probably dead now). If you want to join a part of american culture, go buy a gun and learn to shoot it (at targets). That's just as practical as buying a 700$ lederhosen outfit that you'll wear once/twice a year to a German fest, lol. I admit that we have very very little in terms of older cities and structures. Eastern colony cities maybe? Even then, brick only lasts so long. The buildings are probably all facade now with everything else replaced. Sorry for the long post.. disliking my current work item and mumbling here seemed more interesting.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 24 2016, @10:50PM
Tibman, you make good points - but, I have to differ with you some. Let's take a little stroll across a few decades, shall we?
The Interstate Highway system was started in the late '40's or early '50's. It's primary purpose, of course, was rapid troop and material movement, for the military. Secondary purpose, to expedite shipping, nationally. Tertiary purpose, was to provide John Q. Citizen rapid passage between cities/states.
Now, at my age, I can remember when the regions of this nation were culturally distinct. Go to Kentucky, hear blue grass music - accents were distinct - regions had their own words and idioms. I'm not trying to paint a picture of paradise lost, or anything, but crossing a state line could be a minor culture shock for insular people. Or, inbred people . . .
Today? Coast to coast to coast to coast - Pacific to Atlantic, Gulf to Great Lakes, the music is the same, the food is the same, accents have been lost or covered up. Culture. We have a monoculture, more or less, led from Hollyweird and the music studios.
Go to a mall in New Joisey, (when's the last time you heard a real person pronounce it "joisey"?) there will be a Starbucks offering you an overpriced cup of pig swill - fly out to Gay Bay, and you'll find the same Starbucks at the shopping center, or on the corner. Mickey D's, Bugger King, etc ad nauseum. The first time you find a Carl's burger joint, you'll think you've discovered something new, but Carl's is little different from the rest, really. Or, Whataburger. Or, Julian's.
Culture. How many restaurants near you serve German, or Slovak, or Bavarian cooking? (replace any of those with your favorite ethnic/cultural group) How many bars feature bands that play German, Slovak, or Bavarian music? Italian food is ubiquitous in the US - if you consider pizza with tomato sauce "Italian". The weeks I spent in Sicily, I never saw a tomato sauce on anything.
Culture. We have "culture" in the US, I guess, but I can't say that it's a healthy culture. It seems that our so-called culture is corporate driven.
A lot of bad shit happened in the "old days", but those old days had some good things going for them too.
I guess that's about the same way today. Bad shit happening (student loans, housing bubble, blah blah blah) but some good things are happenign too. Like - uhhhh - gubbermint spying making us safer? Safer than what, I must ask.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 24 2016, @11:29PM
I think you're describing a real process of homogenization, but I had to laugh out loud at "Gay Bay" and "New Joisey," because, man, you lost the thin-skinned right there.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 25 2016, @12:09PM
I do that on purpose. The thin skinned generally have thin, fragile skulls, and they've managed to damage their brains, which seems to preclude any sort of intelligent discussion.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 25 2016, @12:42PM
It doesn't really encourage any intelligent discussion, though, does it? It precludes intelligent discussion by trying to establish an echo chamber. That, or it will incite a flame war, which never leads to intelligent discussion.
It seems to me that intelligent discussion is a place to employ sharp logic rather than coarse language. That's why I laughed at reading your post. You started off with an interesting observation, and then blew the chance for a good discussion with "Gay Bay." I mean, I don't care but others certainly do, especially young'uns who've never known a time without political correctness.
Just a thought.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday October 25 2016, @04:23PM
I now live where there are hills and mountains ... but like in the midwest, the car, store chains, and suburb culture created a repeating pattern: "Generica".
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:39AM
Well, communal art was funded by wealthy families so it was more about status than art. See San Gimignano, to each his own tower.
American culture, the individualist fraction, is even more local than communal stuff, but it has been hijacked to portray a simplistic good vs evil world, from old west movies to its translation in scifi, star trek.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @08:28PM
Politics come from POLIS, Greek for city.
A city is about the biggest manageable unit for citizen to express their opinion. When you go to nation or confederation or world government, representatives get so powerful that they can screw citizen over.
Note, I don't imply places like the medieval communes were a peaceful oasis, but they kept doing everything that nowadays is taboo for both the left and the right (corporativism, preservation of local interest, above the ability of money to buy everything, and over collectivism) and they were more culturally interesting than today's wasteland. Also I think they charged less taxes.
First, you are begging the question that a city is the largest area a person can express concerns. What evidence is there that a city respects the will of the people? I could just as easily say that a community of 100 is the largest group which respects individual opinion, or a province of 10 million.
Second, you have a rose-shaded view of history reminiscent of people having fun in the Society of Creative Anacronists. For money influencing government, look up things like the House of Medici [wikipedia.org]. For corporatism, look up how guilds [wikipedia.org] ran (and you thought Unions were bad). And lets not talk about more apocryphal things, like droit du seigneur [wikipedia.org]. And serfdom, poverty, and numerous other things of the city-state which romantics just glaze over.
For a more modern example, look how the American South desegregated... without a large nation to enforce it, what do you think would have happened?
Nation-states are imperfect, and city-states could potentially be better... but to pretend that it is "obvious" that cities are the correct size of government and things would just be better if things were more local overlooks literally centuries of evidence.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday October 25 2016, @12:12AM
> First, you are begging the question that a city is the largest area a person can express concerns.
I justified it, read what follows. You might not agree but you cannot call it begging the question.
Compare the way Iceland and Greece (nation) dealt with the crisis. Did not the Greek want the same things as Iceland, what went wrong?
> Medici
In fact my history book did not call Florence a "Comune" but a "Signoria" when Medici started ruling. Duchy in English, I guess.
> Guilds
Yes, glorified mafia racket. But that is helping my argument. Today's mafia is not able to create as many socially stable jobs as they did, without killing, poisoning, people and economies. Today's economic system brags of opposing privileges, fostering competition, stop cartels and privileges, while in truth it only reduced everything to numbers, money. Why? because the rulers ruled using money, till now. Example, what is ISO 9001? it is a way to reorganize a business and document processes. to improve quality? Or to make any worker interchangeable, thus irrelevant? did you notice how quality skyrocketed since ISO 9000 and relatives took off? neither did I. In fact I should have stocked up on 70s bottle openers and zips.
> Dressed too good, Jus primae noctis...
You could get a knife in your belly because you did not give right of way to somebody who thought he had it.
OTOH now we have dressed poorly schoolmates that get cast off, gang rape of young girls, and lead in your belly because your skin is the wrong color. It seem invariant with the kind of government.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday October 25 2016, @04:43PM
> Compare the way Iceland and Greece (nation) dealt with the crisis. Did not the Greek want the same things as Iceland, what went wrong?
The Greeks are using the Euro, so they lost the ability to use currency tricks to reduce their troubles.
But if the Greeks had been a small town with the same scale of trouble, they would have gone bankrupt and/or got invaded by a neighbor, so the superstructure also saved their ass. (It's too nice there for a Detroit-style exodus)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @08:36PM
I had heard it came from poly- meaning "many" and ticks meaning "blood sucking parasites" hence "many blood sucking parasites"
-Stolen from Dave Barry.
(Score: 2) by r1348 on Tuesday October 25 2016, @07:29AM
Problem is, such small entities live more or less in a constant state of war with their neighbors, which eventually leads to the collapse of society. Happened in Classical Greece, happened in Renaissance Italy, pretty sure there are other examples. Eventually one of those city-states calls in a powerful foreign power to help with their local struggle, and the invader never leaves.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @07:23PM
Why is this story running? It doesn't look like a slow day in the submission queue.
[...] Led by local women [...]
I see. It's SJW feminazi propaganda.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @07:46PM
Considering the metric shit ton of the "irrelevant to the rest of the world" US stories that run, I would put this in the middle of the pack to be honest.
Bunch of villagers band together to overthrow corruption on a small scale and aren't immediately murdered by their government? Sound like news to me....and a great idea.
Also. The women part about having to stop the men from hanging people and providing an easy justification for the murder I mentioned...an important twist in said story.
You wont agree because you are obviously a moron - but then this post isn't about or for you.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Monday October 24 2016, @11:57PM
Plus, seeing as how the US is electing either a scary clown (but with fun balloon animals!) or a criminal who is untouchable, the info on how to overthrow a government may be useful to Americans.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @03:29AM
I was thinking the same thing when I wrote it and forgot to write it. :)
True ground up political change like this always fascinates me.
Much like the socialist revolution in spain in the 30's (before it was crushed with the help of germany et al) it is an interesting way for people to participate and effect real change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution_of_1936 [wikipedia.org]
The woman stopping the shaved chimps from hanging people (and thereby insuring its immediate demise) is also an important lesson/metaphor/warning for any such movement.
The shaved chimps exist everywhere in great numbers and have the mental capacity of a chimp - much like the original poster. They will fuck things up for everyone because all they care about is advancing their standing in the chimp hierarchy as their lizard brains tell them to do.
You not only have to kick out the corrupt shaved chimps at the top of the top-down hierarchy, you have to destroy that hierarchy and replace it with something else (e.g. Bottom up decentralized democracy) while actively preventing all the other shaved apes from bullying their way in.
Not something that anyone has managed to do long term AFAIK. Still. Maybe one day...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 24 2016, @08:24PM
SJW feminazi propaganda
You're off. If it were SJW feminazi propaganda it'd be full of tearful women whinging and moaning and crying about how oppressed they are and how guilty you should feel while they're unwilling to do the first fucking thing about it.
These women actually did something.
(Score: 5, Informative) by jelizondo on Monday October 24 2016, @09:29PM
It’s been five years of self-rule for the people of Cheran.
First, Cheran is a small town and part of a larger municipality composed of different communities, many smaller than Cheran where most of the inhabitants are indigenous people, called purépecha. The political parties were seen as causing division amongst the people; the government as letting bandidos mess with the sacred forest and the bandidos with getting away with worse than murder.
Second, after the events, the mayor of the municipality tried to recover the government and then the State government intervened, to no effect. They were thrown out of town and the people demanded their right to self-rule. The Federal government, in a rare case of correctly applying the law, determined that under the Constitution they had the right to rule themselves according to their uses and customs.
Third, there is no mob rule as some have remarked. Each community elects in assembly and by a show of hands a representative to the Consejo Mayor (Great Council) that rules the municipality. There is no mayor or president; the Council delegates a particular function to one or a few representatives, like traveling to the State capital and attending a meeting.
Fourth, Cheran is the only town in Mexico where garbage is almost entirely recycled. A garbage truck collects organic material, a second run collects recyclable material (paper, glass, metals) and a third run, “unsanitary garbage” including alkaline batteries. Goes to show the kind of things a government of the people, by the people and for the people can accomplish.
An interesting interview a couple of years after the uprising of a then Council member, at Al Jazeera [aljazeera.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by dingus on Monday October 24 2016, @10:12PM
Mexico has, by my count, three seperate anarchist insurrections at the current time. One of them has been successfully autonomous for over a decade. It has a very long history of libertarian socialist revolutions(or attempted revolutions).
And yet so many people, Mexicans and anarchists included, don't know anything about that. Very strange.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @01:04AM
Can't let the plebs learn there is a better way...