from the would-you-recommend-this-car-to-a-friend? dept.
Lexus, Toyota and Buick are the most reliable brands in Consumer Reports' latest survey, a reward for their conservative approach to new technology.
It's the fourth straight year that Lexus came in first and Toyota came in second. Two of their hybrids—the Toyota Prius and the Lexus CT 200H—were named the most reliable vehicles. But Buick—General Motors Co.'s near-luxury marque—is the first domestic brand to crack the top three since the magazine began tracking vehicle reliability in the early 1980s.
Audi and Kia rounded out the top five brands.
Dodge, Chrysler, Fiat and Ram—all owned by Fiat Chrysler Automobiles—were the worst performers. Electric car maker Tesla Motors also fared poorly.
The magazine released its annual reliability survey Monday. It's closely watched by the industry, since many buyers look to the magazine for recommendations.
http://phys.org/news/2016-10-lexus-toyota-buick-auto-reliability.html
Top Vehicles in Consumer Reports' Reliability Survey
[Details]: Consumer Reports News
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:44PM
It's their Cadillac version of Toyota. I used to be a Ford man until the mid 1970s when they went to making nothing but crap. Then I was a Toyota man, but mid 1990s they too went to crap. I finally went to GM... first a few Saturns, then after Saturn was shut down I went with Chevy but only if it had the same Ecotec engine as the Saturn.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:46PM
That is all.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Wednesday October 26 2016, @05:30AM
NO! It is not all, at all! The dude went the full Saturn, dude? Do you know what that means?
1. Dude knows nothing about cars.
2. Dude is probably a chick, or at least alt-right metrosexual, or ammosexual. (why is it the gun nuts can never figure out anything more complicated than an automated reloading system in an environment filled with available wasted energy?)
3. See Numbers 1, and 2.
I once saw a pimped out ride, but something was just wrong. Metal-flake paint job, in Black, man! Lowered, Mag rims, carrying handle on the trunk deck, Type R sticker, everything! But something was just wrong. Then it hit me: it was a Saturn.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:45PM
My only contact with a Chrysler vehicle is when my Sister-in-law bought a Jeep a few years ago, brand new.
A good friend of mine who is a panel beater laughed at the quality of the paint finish, he said if his apprentice produced that quality of work, he would make him do the job again.
Over the period of the warranty she had regular electrical problems, usually the car would not start at all, and she would have to call the dealer to come and get her. This happened at least three times that I know of.
Eventually they gave her a loan car, and sent off to head office for a replacement part which took three months to arrive and didn't fix the issue at all.
After about two years of that, she returned the car for a partial refund and got a Toyota which has never missed a beat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @11:39PM
I've been a driver for 27 years, and Chryslers have always been pieces of shit that fall apart. I owned one, my college roommate owned one, and my parents owned one. I am surprised anyone ever owns *more than* one.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:56PM
http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/the-most-and-least-reliable-cars-by-class/ [consumerreports.org]
Looking at those ridiculous results, unless all of consumer report's subscribers drive Lexus' and Buicks, my guess is that people were given 30+ auto makers brand names and were asked to rank the top 5 by reliability.
That is, negative input was filtered out living only hear-say and unusually high brand loyalty. That's to say, a brand name popularity test.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:41PM
Well, they supposedly mixed other data in as well:
big
We weight the severity of each type of problem to create a Predicted Reliability Score for each vehicle. That score is then combined with data collected from our track testing, as well as our owner-satisfaction survey results and safety data, to calculate each test vehicle's Overall Score.
Hopefully the averaging cut down on the severity of errors, and combined with more factual data it should be relatively accurate. Or its all just a big scam and they auction off 1st, 2nd, 3rd to the highest qualifying bidders.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:50PM
You clearly have no idea how CR's auto reliability reports works.
They solicit all of their subscribers, there is no restriction on what vehicles are reported on.
Frankly I am just plain fucking tired of idiots like you alleging conspiracy and manipulation simply because you know jackshit about a topic. Your ignorance is not proof of conspiracy, its proof of your idiocy. The internet has made it too easy for idiots to pontificate as if they were experts. Next time you don't actually know what the fuck you are talking about, do us all favor and shut the fuck up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:59PM
http://giphy.com/gifs/tina-fey-4CpBWb5GPFm9i [giphy.com]
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 25 2016, @11:50PM
The fact they're soliciting all of their subscribers is the problem: There simply shouldn't be enough reliable data to determine Lexus and Buick topping in reliability. Even counting road accident is biased considering how little a luxury motor rides yearly compared to work and commute vehicles.
Toyota I can believe. At least in the sense that it's known enough to be reliable that every guy looking for that number 4 or 5 after putting down his favorite will throw in Toyota just because he heard good things.
As for everything from the third sentence onward, it's a real shame how quick people are to forget about emissionsgate. I don't feel any obligation to trust the so-called experts about anything after they've been fooled, or made a fool of us for the last 20 years about exhausts and efficiency.
Now, go take a puff of that cigarette and calm your nerves. 9/10 doctors recommend Camel Lite.
compiling...
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @12:16AM
> There simply shouldn't be enough reliable data to determine Lexus and Buick topping in reliability.
More fucktard pontifications based on knowing absolutely nothing.
Just shut the fuck up already.
> As for everything from the third sentence onward, it's a real shame how quick people are to forget about emissionsgate
Do not even try to compare your self-agtgrandizing ignorance with the expertise of the guys who actually went out and tested the VWs in the field. You don't know shit about what you are talking about, they actually did know exactly what they were talking about because they had were experts in the field.
(Score: 2) by Bogsnoticus on Wednesday October 26 2016, @05:46AM
0 years about exhausts and efficiency.
Now, go take a puff of that cigarette and calm your nerves. 9/10 doctors recommend Camel Lite.
And 9 out of 10 men who have tried camels, prefer women.
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday October 26 2016, @01:31PM
The fact they're soliciting all of their subscribers is the problem
I'd take a different tack that their subscribers are ... unusual people. To put it nicely.
My parents subscribed for a year and discontinued for three reasons:
1) Most of the stuff they needed to buy was settled by whats actually available where we live today not some leisurely ordering from a specialty shop in Boston or WTF and we can't find the issue with the thing we need to buy. So its not actually useful unless you plan far ahead for next time the toilet tank lever chain snaps or the kitchen exhaust fan breaks and when that happens you pick a convenient retailer and buy the one thing they offer. Because you can't find the issue covering kitchen exhaust fans and when you do its five years out of date and lists stuff you can only buy from stores that are 1000 miles away anyway.
2) My EE/CS dad and future EE/CS me would read reviews about electronics and think "this is the dumbest GD way I've ever heard of to evaluate an audio amplifier" or whatever. Total journalist run organization. I mean they just don't (didn't) understand the people reading and the products being reviewed, at least not at the same time. For an example of what I'm talking about watch a free OTA TV PBS show called "This Old House" thats been around since the 70s. The "problem" is they are new england coastie boston people and they have a ... unique aesthetic taste out there which would look badly out of place anywhere but Boston. There are interesting aspects and they kinda get some of it, but their taste is way off from most of the world and then at least CR makes most of their reviews based on taste and style all of which do not match the rest of the country. Then the realization you get from all journalist majors the whole "well sure these guys are idiots about EE and CS stuff but I'm sure their top tier plumbers" and the red pill is when you realize every plumber in the country is reading the same damn thing but saying "well sure these guys are idiots about plumbing but I'm sure they're top tier EE and top tier CS people" Basically its a pile of LARP in a slightly different culture and tastes and styles such that not only is everything made up, but everything is made up to entertain people who ain't even us.
3) The last straw was their readers and/or editors are too ignorant to generate useful survey content. So a XYZ model Plymouth IS, repeat, IS, an ABC model Mazda come off the same group project assembly line and the last step is slapping different nameplates and VIN on them, but they're identical cars marketed very differently, naturally the ethnic group CR focuses on hated american cars and loved japanese cars as a political statement, so naturally the CR report claimed the same car is a lemon if it gets an american nameplate and gods gift to drivers if it gets a japanese nameplate. The problem with discovering reality by surveying idiots is idiots are really dumb. Its like pretending you're doing scientific discovery by running a survey of slave labor in 100 BC asking if the earth is flat or round and patting yourself on the back for your amazing scientific skills at determining the earth is flat.
I can't use a SN car analogy because of #3 above, so I'll use a programming analogy that code reviews mean something when the reviewers are skilled fellow programmers ... or crucially, when you mistakenly think they're skilled fellow coders ... but when you can't find/schedule them when you actually need them, and they're a bunch of journalists or otherwise ignorant and crucially are not even programmers at all, and if they're not even from the same culture so their views are irrelevant compared to yours (imagine a team of OO experts trying to review functional paradigm/style code...)
I'll throw out a theory making CR even more irrelevant today in 2016... Because of the internet and internet scam/review sites eating CR's lunch, I'm gonna bet the average reader / surveyed contributor is over 70, because under 50 probably exclusively uses yelp or amazon reviews or web forums or anything but a legacy printed magazine to make decisions. That explains the Buick thing because I'm pretty sure based on observation that the AARP hands out coupons for 10% off your next Buick with your annual renewal. If you're not 70, would you take car advice from someone who's 70? Maybe, maybe not. Kinda like most of my MiLs elderly friends had caddies or oldsmobiles maybe a decade or two ago, but now they seem to skew Buick.
I bet legacy TV news viewers like Buick, newspaper subscribers like Buick... It has to do with demographics of dying industries not, well, reality.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday October 27 2016, @04:20AM
The ignorance of the consumers is a given. Even an auto-mechanics has significant observation bias after all. So, you can go around expecting people who maybe owned 5 automobiles from 2-4 makes to rate a market filled with different price tiers, part prices, service costs, models, engine sizes and etc...
Saying that, the format can still produce good data. Say, by following something like this format:
Rate the 5 most recent cars you've owned in descending order by date of purchase:
1. Reliability: |1| |2| |3| |4| |5| Make:______ Model:______ Year:_____
2. Reliability: |1| |2| |3| |4| |5| Make:______ Model:______ Year:_____
3. Reliability: |1| |2| |3| |4| |5| Make:______ Model:______ Year:_____
4. Reliability: |1| |2| |3| |4| |5| Make:______ Model:______ Year:_____
5. Reliability: |1| |2| |3| |4| |5| Make:______ Model:______ Year:_____
Ideally, you'd use a web form and drop-down boxes so the numbers would crunch automatically.
Following this format, you'd eliminate multiple biases and have a good built-in criteria to evaluate the quality of the feedback (diversity of past ownership and years of ownership). You'd be able to say things like "People who owned a GM Truck for 3-7 years rate their reliability this or that". Or, "Toyota is often rate most reliable by people owning models past X year and that owned the car for Y years.".
Of course, making a determination of what's "Most reliable" will be a bit tricky. But still, I'd rather debate the interpretation of the data then the method of it's collection and it's very quality.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @02:09AM
Editor's Note Ratings for models with an asterisk (*) are based on one year of reliability data.
Because reliable means your brand new car doesn't break down in the first year. Progress.
(Score: 5, Informative) by el_oscuro on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:58PM
A much better alternative to Consumer Reports is True Delta [truedelta.com]
With Consumer Reports, all they ask you is "Has your car had a serious problem in the last 6 months?" with the definition of serious to be left to the owner.
If you sign up for True Delta, you get an email about every 3 months to take the survey: "Did your car return from a repair shop in the last 3 months?" No, enter approximate mileage and done. Takes about 10 seconds. If yes, provide what was fixed, how much it cost, covered by warranty, etc. Still takes less than a minute, and provides much more accuracy than Consumer Reports.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @11:29PM
How are they funded? I skimmed the site and didn't see mention of anything about that and its kinda critical both in choosing to share info with them and trusting the info they publish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @03:18AM
They get a cut if you buy a car using this feature: http://truedelta.simplecarshopping.com/NewCar [simplecarshopping.com] (which is accessed from the "get a quote" link or through truedelta's car comparison feature). Many websites that deal with cars have similar partnerships through dealer referral sites. In fact, a not insignificant part of Consumer Report's income comes from their partnership with TrueCar.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @04:11PM
This. I signed up with TrueDelta shortly after it opened. At first there wasn't much data, and the site was very careful to say how many samples they were basing their statistics on. Looking from the outside it seemed like a very honest approach, by someone very familiar with statistics.
When I was helping a relative look for a new car, I got some good feedback by posting my question on their board.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by julian on Tuesday October 25 2016, @08:57PM
a reward for their conservative approach to new technology.
I was driving home listening to the news on the radio, NPR I think, and a story came on about millennials and cars. Some marketroid was babbling on about how we millennials love technology and want their cars to be packed with flashy new tech and gizmos and screens. I almost drove the bare-bones manual transmission Honda civic into oncoming traffic from the rage.
It's not even my car, but if I were to buy one I'd want one like that. Less tech to break, distract you, get hacked, or otherwise fuck up.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:29PM
I typically joke that I can give my car to my kids when they head off to college in a decade, because there's just nothing in it that can get any more obsolete, break, or attract attention.
Unsurprisingly, the SO keeps complaining about the manual doors and windows... I tell her the next one will certainly have them, for lack of a choice around 2025.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:29PM
I finally bought a new car this year. My first with ABS, TCS, and all the gizmos on the infotainment system. The brakes are way too touchy, there's no feedback in the way the pedal feels like regular power brakes feel. I don't use and will never need 50% of the features of the infotainment system. It doesn't even have a coolant temp gauge, just a tach and digital speedo. You can't special order them the way you want anymore either. It's comfortable to drive, has lots of turbocharged power and great gas mileage, but I hate it. I'd rather have old school tech cars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @11:34PM
ABS is a real improvement and I welcome it.
Old brakes that would've spun me around in rain or ice in (esp. in a hard stop) are very safely and easily handled by the ABS.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @03:47AM
The nice thing about ABS is that unlike all that flashy crap on the "infotainment" system that's always in your way, ABS is basically invisible until you need it.
(Score: 1) by Roger Murdock on Wednesday October 26 2016, @02:09AM
It sounds like you and I might have the same car. At low speed the brakes are like a light switch. But the power and fuel economy make up for it overall. It's actually quicker and easier to select a colour theme for the dash than it is to view the coolant temp.
(Score: 2) by julian on Wednesday October 26 2016, @06:29AM
The Honda Civic I drive doesn't have a temperature gauge of any kind, but it does have two different dash indicator lights for "too cold" and "too hot". I don't actually know what it's measuring. I live in Southern California and I've never seen the too hot light. Most mornings I get the too cold light for less than a minute.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:52PM
If you are posting here, you are too old to actually be a millennial.
(Score: 2) by julian on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:03PM
I use and enjoy Twitter.
That should be sufficient for credentials.
(Score: 2) by Bogsnoticus on Wednesday October 26 2016, @05:50AM
Mum, Julian's forgotten to take his meds again!
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:21PM
"... predicted reliability rankings for brands and vehicles in 2017. The vehicle rankings are based on a survey of the magazine's subscribers, along with road tests and added points for safety features."
Self-selecting for people who either want to (possibly sub-conciously) justify buying whatever POS they drive OR talk up whatever they want to but, sometime in the future..
Also, probably smug people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFAAdOBB1c [youtube.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:57PM
Don't forget selection that goes the other way. Get the wrong person with a minor flaw and all reviews out of them will be "wish I could give this zero stars." I know a person who had a muffler get ripped off from a large (and I mean LARGE) piece road debris 15 years ago in a Ford Mustang going at highway speeds. Ever since, I've heard nothing but "don't by Fords, they don't use big enough bolts." Personally, that seems like a screaming endorsement of Ford, as I feel like some worse cars would have that scenario end with people dying.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:09PM
True, so "good" cars get down-voted, "bad" cars that haven't caused any of the survey respondents problems get up-voted, and JD Power remains as a more reliable assessment of reliabiliy.
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/843ENG [jdpower.com]
(There is some correlation with the Consumer Reports list)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @12:28AM
Cynicism is no replacement for knowledge or insight and its especially shitty in the hands of the incurious.
CR gets about half a million responses to their subscriber-only survey and they require a sample size of at least 100 cars of an individual model/year before including the results. The typical sample size is 200-400. They ask owners specific questions about repairs, recalls and costs. There is no "five star rating" like amazon.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 26 2016, @01:39AM
Half a million sounds good. Represents just under 3% of vehicle sales in the U.S last year.
But - there is nothing to say the subscribers bought a new car last year.
So the survey selects for subscribers of a particular publication, which is not representative of the actual vehicle buying public.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/total-vehicle-sales [tradingeconomics.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:29PM
CR needs to sort it out. Nobody accuses Audi for being reliable. I mean, compared to Audi, VW feels like Toyota.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 25 2016, @09:43PM
Buick? They still make those? Does it come with a free newspaper subscription?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:02PM
Must be a review of the Chinese market, which saved Buick from the Pontiac/Olds fate.
(Score: 1) by toddestan on Wednesday October 26 2016, @03:55AM
Take a Chevy, re-skin it with some different sheetmetal and stick random bits of chrome all over it, and you've got a Buick! I don't know why GM even bothers*. I guess it's because the Chinese love that crap.
Reliability undoubtedly has more to do with who buys and owns the Buick versus the Chevy versions, not anything about the mechanicals.
*Same with the GMC/Chevy overlap in trucks.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Tuesday October 25 2016, @10:21PM
The worst car mistake I ever made was a Buick. I was backing out of the driveway and the transmission fell apart. Then a SECOND transmission fell apart about a year later. This was in the mid-2000s. They've either come a long way since then or this survey is questionable.
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)