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posted by martyb on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:04PM   Printer-friendly
from the must-be-empty-handed dept.

Humans are said to have evolved from an ancestor that once swung through the trees to get about, free to move through the environment in almost any direction. But today, in our modern high-rise environment, if you simply want to go up or down, it's probably fair to say we've actually devolved. Stairs, elevators, and lifts all take up precious space within buildings, and they're expensive, complicated, or require endless maintenance. Now a new human-powered system prototype dubbed Vertical Walking has been developed that requires just ten percent of the effort needed to climb stairs, but can easily move a person up a vast number of floors.

[...] Designed by the Rombaut Frieling lab in Eindhoven, Netherlands, Vertical Walking uses a system of upright rails that incorporate pulleys and a clever gripping system to allow a user to incrementally move between floors in a building. Claimed to require less than 10 percent of the effort needed to climb stairs, and with no other external energy input needed, the creators assert that the prototype has been successfully proven by a wide range of people, including an amputee and an MS sufferer.

A novel way to move between floors.


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:15PM (#419125)

    That's actually pretty cool. Nobody will actually want to use one.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:29PM (#419131)

      I could see this being a replacement for those powered stair-lifts for old people. Obviously you've got to figure out where to put it, so it won't be feasible for a lot of houses nor for every old person. But at just 10% of the effort of walking up the stairs and you get to do it sitting down, if it is reliable then there would probably be a decent sized market.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:19PM

      by richtopia (3160) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:19PM (#419152) Homepage Journal

      Perhaps in industry, like an emergency escape shaft for a mine. But yea, I sat here trying to think of uses, and the only other use I could imagine is for a treehouse, which would be pretty cool as a kid.

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday October 27 2016, @07:17AM

        by frojack (1554) on Thursday October 27 2016, @07:17AM (#419312) Journal

        Oh I could think of a lot of people wanting to use it. Just tell them there is a free lunch upstairs.
        Because if you believe going up by one of these devices takes only 10% of the energy of stair climbing, you already believe in free lunches.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Immerman on Wednesday October 26 2016, @11:19PM

      by Immerman (3985) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @11:19PM (#419198)

      Aside from the weirdness factor, I don't see any real objection to using them, especially if they only take 1/10th the effort of stairs. Seems like an ultra-low-effort ladder that could easily come with drink and bag holders built in.

      On the other hand, I see some major potential objections to *deploying* them:
      - They would appear to have much lower throughput than stairs for a given footprint. How many walkers can be in use in the space of a stairway?
      - They seem prone to traffic-based "jamming", especially under the common condition where most flow is unidirectional at any given time. If you have five people who want to go to the second floor, and only three "vertical walkers", then the last two people need to wait until two of the first three bring a walker back down.

      Now, if they had an "autonomous mode" so you could summon them like a normal elevator they could be far more useful, especially in low-traffic areas.

      And if you could run multiple walkers on the same shaft, and could autonomously transfer them between shafts, allowing for one or more each "up shafts" and "down shafts", each capable of carrying many people at a time, that might be downright compelling.

      As it is though, they seem like they might be useful for vertical maintenance shafts and the like, but not much else. And I'm betting it's a rare maintenance shaft that sees enough traffic to justify this rather than a ladder. A beautiful solution to a problem I'm not sure exists.

      • (Score: 2) by gidds on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:34PM

        by gidds (589) on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:34PM (#419394)

        I'd like to see someone use it to bring a cup of tea (or coffee, whatever's your poison) up/downstairs.  (Let alone a trayful.  Or anything else, for that matter.  I guess you could fit some sort of storage for non-fragile items, but there doesn't seem to be room, and you'd have real trouble with anything big and/or heavy.)

        So I guess this isn't going to completely replace stairs or lifts (or at least stairwells or shafts).  And if you have those anyway, then I can't see this justifying itself in addition.

        On the plus side, it looks like it exercises many more parts of the body than stairs, so it might be good for general fitness.  (Though that seems to contradict the claims of 90% less 'effort'…)

        And I'm all for people looking at new ways to do things.  There are always improvements to be made, and sometimes big advances too!  (Even if this isn't one of them…)

        --
        [sig redacted]
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:24PM (#419128)

    >Stairs, elevators, and lifts all take up precious space within buildings, and they're expensive, complicated, or require endless maintenance.

        This is their sales pitch? That stairs take up too much space in the architecture of a building? So let's say that gets cut in half, now we can be blessed with more office cubes and fewer windows than before. Rejoice! But please let us not forget the staffers who carry things, who want to walk side-by-side, the groups that return from lunch together, and the general morale lifter of a well designed entry which includes plenty of light & inviting stairs.
        This is a very fantastic demonstration of human ingenuity and of physics, and in a professional/social environment it will find no takers. Industrial applications are more likely the takers.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Nuke on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:12PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:12PM (#419179)

      Stairs, elevators, and lifts all take up precious space within buildings, and they're expensive, complicated, or require endless maintenance.

      So this contraption will take less maintenance than stairs? The sales pitch blew it at that point. I've an even better idea - hitch a ride to a higher level on the back of a flying pig.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:14AM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:14AM (#419212)

        Less than 10% of the energy required to climb stairs is also a specious argument... where is the energy coming from to lift a 150kg post-fast-food humanoid up several stories in a building? If the competition is elevators, then, sure, this thing could be lighter and move less excess mass, but for human powered lifting, you won't be getting 90% reduction in effort without adding something to the human power input.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:32AM

          by RedGreen (888) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:32AM (#419219)

          "you won't be getting 90% reduction in effort without adding something to the human power input."

          Pully with gears don't know if you have ever seen one in operation but they are great little device that allow a human in the case of a car engine lift it out its compartment with very little energy expended by the human. In fact you can lift that many hundred pound engine with just one hand pulling on the chain not really putting any weight into it for leverage.

          --
          "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:04AM

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:04AM (#419245) Journal

            Pulley systems don't magically require less energy -- they just spread the energy expenditure over a much longer time. So the force needed at any time is less, but the energy used is basically the same total.

            Same thing in this case ascending stairs. Basic physics and conservation of energy says you need X joules or calories or BTUs or whatever to raise a human of mass Y up Z distance. You can spread X out for a longer time (walk up a gentle slope ramp) or concentrate X as much as possible (climb a ladder straight up), but you still need X as a minimum amount of energy. In fact, you're generally going to expend a lot more than X the more you spread it out... Like all the horizontal distance your body has to move to go up a ramp, which you don't need to do on a ladder.

            So "less effort" here is very ambiguous... Either you're going to end up expending MORE energy overall (just more slowly, so it seems less laborious but takes forever, thus making 90% "less effort" seem a odd claim) or you need external energy input to assist you.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Nuke on Thursday October 27 2016, @09:13AM

            by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 27 2016, @09:13AM (#419333)

            "you won't be getting 90% reduction in effort without adding something to the human power input."

            Pully with gears .... they are great little device that allow a human in the case of a car engine lift it out its compartment ......

            Thank you Captain Obvious.
             

            .....with very little energy

            Oh dear. Confusion between "effort" and "energy". "Effort" is not an engineering term, "energy" is. You can argue that pulley hoists take less "effort" if by it you mean "force" (which is an engineering term), but then you pay for that reduced force by having to pull through more length of rope (and hence take a longer time). If you use pulleys to reduce the the force to lift the car engine by, say, a factor of 4, you will increase the length of rope you pull through by a factor of four (not precisely, but simplifying a little). It does not help that TFA uses the word "effort".

        • (Score: 2) by bradley13 on Thursday October 27 2016, @06:29AM

          by bradley13 (3053) on Thursday October 27 2016, @06:29AM (#419305) Homepage Journal

          I had the same thought: Not possible to reduce energy requirements. But - it look to be true. Consider:

          - The system is pre-loaded (on the lowest floor) with potential energy stored in the elastic ropes.

          - As you move upwards, you are adding your own energy input, but mostly your are using the stored potential energy.

          - When you move downwards, your descent stretches the elastic ropes, putting potential energy back into the system.

          The problem would seem to be: Even with pulleys to artificially lengthen the ropes, they are still subject to the spring constant: they will help less and less as they shorten. Hence, as you ascend, you will have to add more and more energy yourself. Those last few floors are likely to be a bitch.

          There are obviously problems, not least is convincing some people to expend *any* physical effort. But the 10% energy claim is actually believable.

          --
          Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday October 27 2016, @07:24AM

            by frojack (1554) on Thursday October 27 2016, @07:24AM (#419317) Journal

            Maybe if all your trips are upward, and someone else takes it back down and re-loads the spring tension for you, you might do it for 10%.

            But that's the logical equivalent of only going down stairs, or only sliding down a firepole, and
            returning to the second floor via magical thinking.

            Back to physics class for you.

            TNFL.

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
            • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday October 28 2016, @02:02PM

              by urza9814 (3954) on Friday October 28 2016, @02:02PM (#419841) Journal

              Maybe if all your trips are upward, and someone else takes it back down and re-loads the spring tension for you, you might do it for 10%.

              Just sitting on the thing will reload the tension. Of course, you aren't going to be able to get near that 90% reduction from springs alone unless perhaps you tune it for a very specific weight, which would be useless any kind of public building. But just think of it like bungee jumping. You get on at the top, the cord stretches as you fall, and just before you slam into the pavement it slows you to a stop. At the bottom it clicks into a latch and locks, and when the next person gets on they unlock that and it yanks them back up!

              • (Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:57PM

                by frojack (1554) on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:57PM (#420637) Journal

                when the next person gets on they unlock that and it yanks them back up!

                There is no free lunch.

                You do not get back anywhere near enough energy to take you back up.

                Little Jimmy asked the same question [illinois.edu].

                --
                No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:19PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:19PM (#419363)

            Thanks for reading TFA... so, pre-loaded rubber bands - great... no maintenance problems there (o.k. metal springs would last a little longer, but...)

            This amounts to a pre-loaded counterweight system - maybe you consider that innovative, I toured a hand-built historic house from the early 1900s that did the same thing for their single-hung windows.

            The problem becomes: during morning rush, all the mass is going up - so you have to have a lot of preload ready and waiting to move everybody into the building. Then, if you've got all that energy storage capacity, you can re-load it in the afternoon when everybody goes home. Same thing in reverse for residential buildings full of working people.

            I'm envisioning a water based system where there are two big pools, one on the roof, one in the basement. Step into the elevator on the ground floor and a corresponding counterweight car is filled with water from the roof until it begins to descend. Then, to recover the energy, when an elevator is filled on a high floor, the counterweight car is filled with water from the bottom pool. Tall buildings would likely have intermediate pools along the way up. Complicated, but could be entertaining to watch if you make the counterweights clear and visible.

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 4, Touché) by Dunbal on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:26PM

    by Dunbal (3515) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:26PM (#419129)

    Call me when you reach the 86th floor.

    • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:45PM

      by edIII (791) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:45PM (#419136)

      LOL. Fuck that. You think I'm gonna get into a tube 86 stories high protected from plummeting by a collection of pulleys and elastic ropes? Who's building it? What rich fucker is making money by cutting corners?

      BWAHAHAHHAA.... yeah, no.

      The only tube elevator I will get in is the one from the Stranger in a Strange Land (?) where anti-gravity is what makes people float upwards or fall slowly.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 1) by zugedneb on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:56PM

        by zugedneb (4556) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:56PM (#419140)

        Is it not Asimov - Prelude to Foundation?

        Where the robot points out the lack of interest in the elevators in question as a possible sign of decline?

        sry for spoiler, but not much info in above line...

        --
        old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
        • (Score: 2) by zugedneb on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:58PM

          by zugedneb (4556) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:58PM (#419142)

          sry, it was actually a bit of a spoiler.

          but anyways, i think book is: Asimov - Prelude to Foundation...

          --
          old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:01PM

            by edIII (791) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:01PM (#419172)

            That's okay. It was killing me that I couldn't remember. I don't remember reading the book you mentioned, but the little spoiler won't stop me :)

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2) by t-3 on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:32PM

          by t-3 (4907) on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:32PM (#419419)

          Stranger in a Strange Land also had tube elevator things, but they were operated by martian magic.

    • (Score: 1) by Frost on Friday October 28 2016, @08:22PM

      by Frost (3313) on Friday October 28 2016, @08:22PM (#419947)

      I know, right? This thing is totally useless because nobody ever uses the first five stories of a building for anything, ever.

  • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:26PM

    by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:26PM (#419130)

    Seems better for low traffic areas. If you need more than 2-3 of these then you are taking up more space than conventional stairs. Also, taking your coffee upstairs will be a bit more difficult : P Interesting though. I wonder what environment this would be ideal? Some place where you have a lot of vertical and not much horizontal. Tree house? Missile silo?

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    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:11PM

      by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:11PM (#419150) Journal

      That was my first thought: cool, but "but my coffee, but I can't sext/Facebook doing this.... waaah, I just broke a nail!!!"

      I'd use it, but I'll also think nothing of walking 10 floors to visit my parents.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 5, Funny) by deimtee on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:09AM

        by deimtee (3272) on Thursday October 27 2016, @02:09AM (#419247) Journal

        I'd use it, but I'll also think nothing of walking 10 floors to visit my parents.

        Wow, your basement is really deep!

        --
        If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
  • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:35PM

    by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:35PM (#419133)

    I wonder if when people went back downstairs, if the energy could be reclaimed and made available to the system via a regenerative-braking style mechanism, flywheel, selectable counterweight, or the like.

    • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:22PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:22PM (#419183)

      I wonder if when people went back downstairs, if the energy could be reclaimed and made available to the system

      TFA is light on detail, but for 10% of the energy needed on stairs the system must be doing that already. I am guessing that when you go down there are springs being stretched which then help someone back up again. There is no way that it could only need 10% otherwise. The energy needed to lift a mass to a height is mass x height x g plus some losses due to friction and air resistance. Those losses are not very significant compared with the height part of the equation, and in fact those losses are likely to be more with this contraption than they are with walking up stairs.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:43PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:43PM (#419135)

    Important especially when there's a fire.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:40PM (#419162)

      Coincidentally this vertical walking device looks like a pair of firepoles.

      Let me read Wikipedia for you, because you are incapable of following a link.

      A fireman's pole (also called a sliding pole, firepole, or tom) is a wooden pole or a metal tube or pipe installed between floors in fire stations, allowing firefighters responding to an alarm to quickly descend to the ground floor faster than by using a standard staircase.

      It is abundantly obvious that you did not read TFA and neither did the idiot who modded you up.

      Kindly die in a fire.

      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:31PM

        by Nuke (3162) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:31PM (#419186)

        It is abundantly obvious that you did not read TFA and neither did the idiot who modded you up.

        I think it is you who did not read (or understand) TFA, nor understood the GP's comment - the point of which was that many people can be going down a staircase at the same time, but only one at a time can use this new invention.

        I have just modded the GP up too.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2016, @11:23AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2016, @11:23AM (#419796)
          Well the proponents of this stupid contraption can just jump together and reach the bottom faster while using a lot less of their own energy.

          The fact is in those skyscrapers very few use the stairs to go up. They use the elevators to go up and down. They mainly use the stairs to go down during emergency drills, and once in a while in actual emergencies.

          And in some higher security buildings you can use the stairs but once you use them you have to go all the way down - the doors lock and can't be open from the stair side. So you can't get back inside unless someone (a smoker perhaps ;) ) has breached security by jamming a door so it doesn't lock.

          p.s. people do fall down stairs and get injured and sometimes killed, but if you screw up in this contraption the death rate might be higher.
      • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:06AM

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:06AM (#419209)

        I think the seat prevents it from being used as a fire pole.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:47PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:47PM (#419138)

    It isn't clear how the chair is sent back down/up when it isn't on the same floor as the next user. This won't replace elevators or stair lifts for weak people, as their main problem is that they don't have the strength to move their weight, or more especially, their weight plus their motorized wheelchair. This doesn't seem to accommodate any sort of wheelchair.

    • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:56AM

      by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:56AM (#419329)

      It isn't clear how the chair is sent back down/up when it isn't on the same floor as the next user.

      I don't think it can, unless you add electric motors to do it, wiping out the supposed energy savings. You will need one of these devices for every person in the building - taking up more space than stairs. At least we will not need to put up with other people's vomit in the lift.

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:59PM

    by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @08:59PM (#419143)

    How will s/he maintain those full, soft cheeks if they have to *gasp* exercise once in a while?

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:59PM (#419170)

      Buy-1-get-1 coupon deals for fine fast food establishments.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anne Nonymous on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:05PM

    by Anne Nonymous (712) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:05PM (#419148)

    Because you're going to want to wash your hands after sharing the rails with Judy from accounting.

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:39PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:39PM (#419189)

      Less problematic these days, she upgraded the C-suite to blowjobs.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @04:52AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @04:52AM (#420784)

        Well, I do say old chap, that is the most classy comment we could expect.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by FakeBeldin on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:11PM

    by FakeBeldin (3360) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:11PM (#419149) Journal

    on youtube [youtube.com]

    • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:34AM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:34AM (#419237) Journal

      Yeah....no. those with arthritic hands, wheelchairs, walkers, packages, hell I know a couple bikers that would have serious issues with this thing because they are big linebacker looking guys and would have trouble getting in and out of that thing.

      I really don't see this not running afoul of USA handicap accessibility laws, not to mention WTF are you gonna do if there is a fire or bomb scare or other emergency? Have everyone stand around and wait in line for this to let them out one at a time?

      Sorry but other than power usage this thing has waay too many downsides and not enough upsides to be a viable replacement for elevators and stairs. Hell I bet with todays tech it really wouldn't be that hard to make an elevator low power so I doubt even power usage is that big a win for this thing and it certainly isn't gonna work as well as good old fashioned stairs in an emergency.

      --
      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:57AM

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:57AM (#419243)

        Power=Work/time

        Work=force*distance

        The work an elevator does does not change (though counter-weights can help).

        Therefore to get a low-power elevator, all you need is a gear reduction to move at a slower speed.

      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:52AM

        by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:52AM (#419328)

        those with arthritic hands, wheelchairs, .... would have serious issues with this thing

        You don't understand. You saw the future this is meant for in Soylent Green, for which I guess these inventors cannot wait. The people you mention will have long been gone to the euthanasia booths.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 27 2016, @03:19PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday October 27 2016, @03:19PM (#419432)

        I have a solution for an emergency escape: a spiral chute, like you see at water parks. People just jump in, one at a time, and slide out of the building at high speed. Perhaps have it automatically activate a big airbag at the bottom for people to land on. (It needs to be a spiral to keep the speeds down compared to freefall in a vertical tube, but the spiral needs to be fairly steep since there's no water for lubrication.)

  • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:16PM

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:16PM (#419151) Journal

    It's neat, and maybe there's a niche for it to supplement elevators and escalators. Perhaps it takes less maintenance than those classic contraptions. But it's not as good as a plain old stairway, which has no moving parts. A freight elevator is best for heavy and bulky objects.

    The stairway is in turn inferior to a gently sloping ramp. The big disadvantage of a ramp is that it can take a lot more room. (And, I suppose another disadvantage is that Daleks can use them.) Really, it's nutty how we're so in love with perfectly flat and level surfaces that we just won't use ramps. Took laws requiring access for the disabled to get more ramps included in building and city design.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:38PM (#419161)

      Ramps are great for small elevations, but replacing stairs and elevators with ramps would require a massive amount of extra space as you say. In most cities real estate is at a premium so it makes perfect sense for ramps to be ignored for most vertical travel. Some buildings have used ramps, so far they seem to be malls or museums. Every other building is too concerned about usable sqft.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:23PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:23PM (#419154)

    Don't expect to see this replace elevators in the US - at least not all of them in a building. The ADA (American's with Disabilities Act) has requirements that include all sorts of things architects need to keep in mind. As a consulting engineer who does HVAC design, I work with a lot of architects. We had one owner that was particularly annoyed when the architect told him he needed to spend money on an elevator in his new building - a fire fighting training facility. He didn't see the point of wasting floor space and money when by definition everyone who is training there needs to be able bodied, but the code is the code - so he got an elevator with his new facility.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:21PM (#419365)

      What about the people who aren't training?

      Off hand examples would include someone performing an inspection and custodians.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:29PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:29PM (#419157)

    requires just ten percent of the effort needed to climb stairs,

    There is something very perpetual motion sounding in that statement. The energy input needed to climb stairs comes from needing to overcome the pull of gravity. And the energy input to lift an X weight object Y meters is constant due to that pull being constant [1]. That means to go up 3 meters in height (about the 'typical' spacing between floors in a building) requires X amount of energy input due to gravity. There is no way to lift a person up 3 meters in a building on 10% of the energy required to overcome gravity, unless somewhere else there is an energy input that is not coming from the human driving the system.

    Something smells fishy with this "only 10%" claim.

    [1] At this scale, moving humans up in a building, gravity can be considered a constant.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:42PM (#419163)

      10% does seem a bit low, but look into pulleys and counterweights for more info (not sure if they have counterweights in this machine though). Also, human movement is not very efficient. Some ladies in Africa I believe carry large jugs of water on their heads and have a weird walking rhythm, turns out the weird walk increases their efficiency!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:46PM (#419167)

      I agree, the article gives no source for that 10% number. Have forwarded the link to a ME prof friend who studies walking and gait. Will report back if I hear from him, while this item is still on the main SN page.

      (speculation)It could be that the motions in climbing stairs are very inefficient?

      • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:14AM

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:14AM (#419213)

        That was my most charitable interpretation.

        The only problem: you can measure the power output of a physics student by having them run up a flight of stairs.

        For their claim to hold water, climbing stairs would have to be 90% inefficient.

    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:59PM

      by Bot (3902) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @09:59PM (#419171) Journal

      Maybe it requires 10% of the effort for 10x the time. Speeding up will reduce time and increase effort.

      --
      Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:39PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Wednesday October 26 2016, @10:39PM (#419188)

      As I said further up, I think it involves stretching springs to re-use the energy of descents, otherwise the 10% claim is pure BS. Looking at the action of the guy demonstrating it, fit though he looks, it is obvious he is being assisted by upward pulling cables. TFA does not want to trouble our pretty heads with such grimy details however.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @11:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2016, @11:41PM (#419203)

        That may work, but only if it is already on the floor you are on (so you have energy for the ascent stored in springs or a counterweight or something).

        However, if the machine is on the floor above you from the last guy who used it, and you want to go up, then you need to get it down to your floor somehow. Probably with an electric motor. But then, why not just use the motor to go up too?

    • (Score: 2) by stormwyrm on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:35AM

      by stormwyrm (717) on Thursday October 27 2016, @12:35AM (#419221) Journal
      It says 10% of the effort not 10% of the energy. It depends on how you define "effort". I don't think they mean work/energy by effort, because it will require roughly the same amount of energy to lift something up a certain distance whether you pull it up by an elevator or bring it up the stairs, or use some other fancy contraption like what they have to do so. I think by "effort" they mean force. It takes less force to climb stairs up five metres than it does to pull oneself directly up five metres, i.e. there is a mechanical advantage [wikipedia.org] to using the stairs. I weigh about 75 kg, so to lift myself straight up I'd have to exert 735 N of force, expending 3675 J of energy in the process. A staircase can be approximated as an inclined plane. A typical staircase has a slope of about 30°, so the mechanical advantage would be 1/sin(30°) = 2, i.e. I'd have to exert only half as much force to climb the stairs as I would to pull myself up, only 367.5 N. However a 30° inclined plane going up 5 metres would be also 5/sin(30°) = 10 m. So I'd need to travel twice as far going up the stairs as I would pulling myself straight up, but exert only half the force doing so, so energy is still conserved: I still have to expend 3675 J to go up. If they claim that that the effort is only 10% that of stairs, then that probably means that they have roughly ten times the mechanical advantage of an inclined plane/stairs, and I'd need to exert only 36.75 N or so of force to go up five metres to to the next floor. I'd need to travel 100 m to get that kind of level of force reduction though, so I'm not sure if that's such a good deal.
      --
      Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @06:24AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @06:24AM (#419304)

        have you considered the effrt involved to stay upright? in this thing you're sitting down.
        also, you can use hands as well as feet, and only use belly/back for useful work (not for standing up).

        • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:45AM

          by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 27 2016, @08:45AM (#419327)

          have you considered the effrt involved to stay upright? .... also, you can use hands as well as feet

          Humans require very little effort to be standing up - just tiny balance adjustments and cetainly not causing 90% of the effort to walk upstairs.

          The guy in the video is not using his arms to pull himself up (watch his arm muscles), he is only shifting his hands upwards for the next "push" with his legs. And I believe that most of that "push" is being done by tensioned ropes attached to some sort of spring or counterweight behind the scenes. Either the inventors are making a poor job of describing and demonstrating this device, or being less than honest, or it is being reported to us poorly.

          Only fit people can lift their own weight with their arms held above them, even when held straight, let alone bent like in the video. Try it.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fliptop on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:38AM

    by fliptop (1666) on Thursday October 27 2016, @01:38AM (#419238) Journal

    They didn't include that in the demo. Can you even carry a couple-few bags of groceries on it?

    --
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @05:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2016, @05:28PM (#419495)

      No you can't, but they won't last long. They'll be sued into bankruptcy the first time someone falls off. And you know some kid is going to get stuck halfway up. Their product is ok as a proof of concept, but it has absolutely no commercial use as is.