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posted by martyb on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:21PM   Printer-friendly
from the VERY-stiff-upper-lip dept.

"A former soldier cut off two of his gangrene-ridden toes with a pair of tin metal pliers without anesthetic in his living room after becoming frustrated at a six-week delay to being operated on by the National Health Service (NHS)."

[...] "He says he eventually developed gangrene and his doctor said his infected toes would have to be removed. Rather than wait six weeks for the operation, Dibbins took matters into his own hands.

He says the operation, performed without pain killers and in his living room while biting on a rolled up towel, took about an hour. His wife of 40 years was in the house but says she did not want to look.

“Knowing that it would take at least another six weeks to get me in front of a surgeon again, that’s when I bit the bullet and cut off the toes,” Dibbins told the North Devon Journal.

“I did it because it’s what had to be done. My doctor told me my toes were going to kill me."

https://www.rt.com/uk/364152-gangrene-frostbite-toes-cut/


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  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:34PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:34PM (#420265)

    Single payer is great! I know, because it led me to do self-surgery as well!

    Nothing as radical as this - but man, the doctors were pissed off. Weeks later. When they got to me. When everything was healing up nicely.

    Then I explained why, and they were really pissed because I didn't wait in line.

    Seriously, people, what the hell?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:40PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:40PM (#420267) Journal

      Well, I just don't do lines very well. I stood in line as a young man for a physical, for uniforms, for chow, for weapons issue, for haircuts - you name it. I quit all of that. If there's a line, I go elsewhere for whatever I need.

      I don't know if I could cut off my own toes, but knowing that they were gangrenous and killing me, I just might. Six weeks is a hell of a long time to wait, while the green is spreading upwards.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:55PM (#420275)

        For me it was infection. In-growing toenails that were imbedded, and producing swelling, heat and pus. I was reliably informed that in just a few weeks (more than a month) somebody might get around to it.

        In that time I actually might have developed gangrene.

        So I did what I had to do. I took a razor, and carved my toes open. I drained the pus, cut the toenails way back, swabbed everything out with isopropyl, packed it all with antibiotic wound cream, and dressed it.

        When they finally got around to me, my toes were fine, the toenails were growing back normally, there was no sign of infection, and I asked for a medical note saying I could wear sandals.

        The doctor was so pissed off, he refused me a medical note and told me not to come back if I wasn't willing to take medical advice - not why I did it, but who cares? Not him.

        So. Yeah. Single-payer can suck me off and fluff my balls. Since then, I pay for private care and feel good doing so.

      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:33PM

        by edIII (791) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:33PM (#420343)

        Yeah, but if I was a soldier who had sacrificed for his country and it was just some rich fuckers who didn't want to pay their fair share?

        They would lose the same toes along with me, in the same surgery. Either that, or they could pay for my surgery. Whatever would happen, somebody else would losing something too.

        It's absolutely horrific how we treat soldiers, and we never learn. We're about to have another bonus army march on Washington D.C here with the National Guard soldiers too.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:43PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:43PM (#420350) Journal
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:53PM (#420359)

          I can broadly agree with what you're saying - the remuneration for soldiers has long been a sticking point.

          Just one thing remains:

          Please define this "fair share" thing you're talking about.

          What are its salient characteristics?

          How will we know what constitutes a "fair share"?

          What markers are available for determining what is more than a "fair share" and what is less?

          I hear about so many "fair" things in politics, but nobody seems to want to define them.

    • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:52PM

      by wisnoskij (5149) <reversethis-{moc ... ksonsiwnohtanoj}> on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:52PM (#420271)

      I just removed my own skin tag (it was quite a bit more than just skin). It does not compare with a toe but it was quite a bit of bleeding for a long while before it healed over enough to stop.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:57PM (#420277)

      I've had people sit for MONTHS with gangrene as their other conditions made surgery too risky (interesting side note- the toes fell off and we had to store it in the fridge as they had a tradition of being buried "whole").

      Yes, gangrene will kill you, but not in six weeks time.

      What we have here is a case of over-reaction by the soldier, and fearmongering about socialized medicine.

      Not to mention there are private hospitals in the UK. Can't afford it? Great! You're just like most people with private medicine.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:31PM (#420294)

        Oh, I know about the private medical options in the UK. More familiar than you might expect, even.

        But here's the problem: if you can afford private, you're a bleedin' toff who needs to be taxed harder so that everyone else can get more treatment, faster, under the exact same NHS that is growing like a cancer (seriously, take a look at its graph as a percentage of GNP, and as a percentage of revenue) and still can't tell its arse from its elbow. If you can't afford private, then you're a hapless woebegone symbol of everything that's wrong with Miserable Britain.

        The whole approach is broken, at this point.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by BasilBrush on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:59PM

          by BasilBrush (3994) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:59PM (#420318)

          NHS spending as a percentage of GDP has been falling every year since 2010.

          The rest of what you say is shite too.

          --
          Hurrah! Quoting works now!
          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:38PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:38PM (#420346)

            Right, because the tories, bless their twisted little hearts, have tried to stem the bleeding. They didn't manage to actually reduce the NHS budget, but they sort of shuffled the money around and redefined a few things and managed to put a lid on the cauldron and sit on it for a while. If you draw the graph, they slowed the climb rather than reversed it, and if you draw any kind of moving average the net effect pretty much vanishes.

            That reinforces the point, rather than weakens it, especially since the whingeing from the imploding left increases every time anybody bothers to listen to them. Even leaving aside Corbyn's pet madhouse, the centre is full of people who appear to think that the only problem with the NHS is that there isn't more of it. We're still bombarded with the message that the toffs are vampiric monsters who should be taxed until they couldn't afford anything better than the NHS could deliver anyway, while the poor shivering proles can't get enough coal to stoke their fireplace of a winter's night.

            It's enough to make one want to move to the US.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by BasilBrush on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:08AM

              by BasilBrush (3994) on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:08AM (#420410)

              Again, NHS spending as a percentage of GDP has been falling every year since 2010. That's not "slowed the climb". That's a decreasing.

              You're still talking shite.

              --
              Hurrah! Quoting works now!
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:55AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:55AM (#420422)

                Stop hyperventilating. Read the words.

                The actual budget is not reduced; the relative budget as part of GDP is reduced, (although the budget as part of revenue is questionably reduced) and this is in an era of growth when they made a big noise about working hard to trim the NHS.

                And this is just the last government.

                And the dip relative to GDP is tiny.

                Look at the actual graph in real terms, and it's not much of a decrease unless you handpick some bizarre measure of inflation.

                But hey - what do I know? HM government's numbers must all be nonsense, right? The tories are secretly chopping the NHS down by tens of millio ... er wait, they're not? In fact, the chancellor got a lot of stick from his own backbenchers for backing away from their promise?

                Up is down! Left is right! Cats and dogs living together! Total insanity!

                ... but right, must be all that shite I'm talking.

                Boom, boom.

                • (Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 03 2016, @08:32PM

                  by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 03 2016, @08:32PM (#422228)

                  You brought up the measuring against SGP, tit.

                  You're full of shite on your own measure.

                  --
                  Hurrah! Quoting works now!
        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:11PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:11PM (#420325) Homepage

          Speaking of growing like a cancer, what are the effects of refugees and other unskilled dead-weight on Britain's healthcare system?

          • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:14PM

            by isostatic (365) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:14PM (#420328) Journal

            Insignificant.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:56AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:56AM (#420475)

            Speaking of growing like cancer, how'd that Iraq war turn out for you guys?

            • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:54PM

              by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:54PM (#420552) Homepage

              Pretty shitty, but then again, I was always against both the Iraq war and opening the floodgates to refugee scum.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by naubol on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:29PM

          by naubol (1918) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:29PM (#420339)

          I found some data that does say NHS went from 3.5% from 1960 to 7.2% in 08. http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/dhtml_slides/10/blastland/img/slide3_v4.gif [bbc.co.uk]

          For the US, health spending went from 4.5% in 1960 to 17.8% in 2010. https://econographics.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/u-s-healthcare-spending-as-percentage-of-gdp/ [wordpress.com]

          It seems difficult to assert that this means the approach is wrong. The UK held costs down much better!

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by edIII on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:39PM

            by edIII (791) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:39PM (#420347)

            Do NOT compare any health system to the one in the U.S on a financial basis. We have the most hell bound pyschotic avaricious parasites in the world. THAT's why a fucking 2c band-aid costs $4.99 a piece and an Aspirin can cost $30.

            When you compare our costs against Cuba's costs for the same medicine, keeping in mind they're under a nasty double embargo, the U.S is TWO orders of magnitude higher. We're the fucking assholes that sell $2 worth of epinephrine for $600.

            Probably better off comparing the UK against Canada or some other country that is in the top 10 for medicine. The U.S? Not anywhere near the top 20 even. We're the greatest though right? ;)

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by naubol on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:24AM

              by naubol (1918) on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:24AM (#420398)

              So, don't compare a single payer approach with a market approach because the market approach is unfair due to avaricious pricing? That was sort of the point of my post. :p

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:49AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:49AM (#420436)

                The "market approach" ... excuse me while I laugh so hard I cough up a lung.

                The "market approach" - where the government decides who can decide which universities may graduate how many doctors.

                The "market approach" - where the government deliberately puts monopolies in place and refuses to do anything about them when they're abused.

                The "market approach" - where the government's sweetheart agencies and programmes can extract non-negotiable services at non-negotiable (and wildly uneconomical) rates and leave everyone else to pick up the slack as a hidden tax.

                The "market approach" - where participation is mandatory, backed with fines, and they can't even get insurers to make a profit with a captive audience more comprehensive than drivers' insurance policies have.

                The "market approach" - where actual pricing information is carefully hidden, varies wildly between customers, and is most definitely not open to bid or negotiation except where the counterparty is a large institution, or would otherwise simply default on payment.

                The "market approach" - with multiple, parallel, substantial single-payer operations in it.

                If the USA's approach is anything like a market-based approach, then maybe we need to give anarchy another try.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:45PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:45PM (#420352)

            Apples and oranges.

            But even assuming those numbers are utterly comparable on every level (they're not, but what the hell ...) that mostly reveals that when you have a market strongly constrained by a buyer with the force of law, you're apt not to get a lot of price rises.

            The situation in the USA actually fostered a whole series of abuses.

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:43PM

      by isostatic (365) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:43PM (#420307) Journal

      This bloke could always have paid for private treatment, if he could afford it.

  • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:55PM

    by wisnoskij (5149) <reversethis-{moc ... ksonsiwnohtanoj}> on Saturday October 29 2016, @09:55PM (#420274)

    At least use an exact-o knife

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:18PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:18PM (#420287) Homepage

      You need real cutting power to go through bone and sinew. I'd have rented a Sawzall [milwaukeetool.com] and used that instead.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:50PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:50PM (#420356) Homepage Journal

        No way, man. Hold back the guard on a circle saw. Much quicker.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:32AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:32AM (#420379)

          A bladed hose cutter pliers will make a nice clean fast cut. Also good for penectomy.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:50AM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:50AM (#420387) Homepage Journal

            Through bone though? I'd think bolt cutters would be better.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:47AM

              by Reziac (2489) on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:47AM (#420420) Homepage

              I'd cut through the joint, as at least that way it won't pressure-splinter the bone and wind up with more mess than before.

              --
              And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:01PM (#420279)

    From the RT article, sourced from that source of renowned journalism, 'Celeb Starz News' —

    He says he then discharged himself from hospital and thought surgeons would call him in a few days to re-book an appointment, but claims they never did.
    ...
    Dibbins says he resorted to treating his own wounds over nine months

    So, this guy leaves the hospital without talking to the doctors. Then spends 9 months dicking around "waiting" for the doctors to call him.
    And the sum total of the reporting on the story is his own account because the NHS can't violate medical privacy laws.

    Are we really going to take what this obvious idiot says at face value?

    This is Daily Heil quality stuff. Oh, surprise! [dailymail.co.uk]

    Come on editors. I won't fault you for posting 'off-topic' or 'political' stories because no topic should be off limits. But is there no minimum level of journalistic trustworthiness?
    Is Soylent becoming a supermarket tabloid?

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:23PM (#420293)

      Even assuming everything you say is the unvarnished truth, and a totally reliable representation of the facts at hand ...

      ... they didn't call? They didn't suggest a follow-up appointment? They didn't check to see if there were side-effects?

      "Oh, good morning mister ... Dibbins. Yes, I'm just calling in regard to your wounds on your ... toes, is that right? Right, so you checked yourself out of the hospital, was everything taken care of? Oh, it wasn't? Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that, can we arrange for an examination, at least with a triage nurse to see if there might not be a problem we could resolve? How's Q3 of next fiscal year for you?"

      Nope.

      Not even a phone call.

      The best, most charitable interpretation that I can possibly squeeze out of this series of events is that the management of end-to-end health care supposedly trumpeted by the NHS is a festering turd. Even my damn dentist can arrange a postcard suggesting I come in for a cleaning. Someone leaves a hospital and they just carry on with a shrug and without so much as a checkup?

      And you think that's the GOOD news?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:27AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:27AM (#420377)

        > ... they didn't call? They didn't suggest a follow-up appointment? They didn't check to see if there were side-effects?

        Who knows? We only have the word of an obviously crazy guy. Nobody else gets to talk because of medical privacy laws.
        Everything he says is suspect.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:32PM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:32PM (#420295) Journal

      This is Daily Heil quality stuff. Oh, surprise! [dailymail.co.uk]

      Is Soylent becoming a supermarket tabloid?

      Well, at least it wasn't the Washington Moonie Times, or Brietbard deadguy News!!

    • (Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:36PM

      by Francis (5544) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:36PM (#420299)

      There's that, but who amputates because of infection these days? It's been decades since that was medically necessary, but it still happens because quacks don't know how to properly kill the bacteria.

      • (Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:08PM

        by sjames (2882) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:08PM (#420323) Journal

        From what little I could gather from the incoherent rambling, he apparently has poorly controlled diabetes bad enough that he is up for a below the knee amputation anyway, which would take care of the toes as well. If his circulation is that badly damaged, antibiotic treatment would be futile.

        • (Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:52AM

          by dyingtolive (952) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:52AM (#420437)

          From what I understand, amputation is a common occurrence with diabetics. Something about the immune system going bad that I'm either not sober enough or smart enough to grasp. A rather large CS professor that I took classes from took a few months off some 10 years ago due to an infection in a toe resulting in such an amputation.

          --
          Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by sjames on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:22AM

            by sjames (2882) on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:22AM (#420452) Journal

            As I understand it, the cause is not well understood. For a long time the leading theory was that the excess blood glucose itself caused nerve and capillary damage. Now, the idea that the same immune malfunction that destroyed the beta cells in the first place might also attack the lining of the blood vessels is gaining ground.

            The conventional wisdom was that tightly controlling glucose levels would prevent amputations. However, since that is not proving out even now that we can control levels very closely with a pump, the immune theory is gaining ground.

            In any event, the guy in TFA was supposed to have his lower right leg amputated. If his toes condition was diabetic related, it would be dry gangrene which moves slowly and doesn't invade healthy tissue. If he had done nothing, they would have literally dropped off on their own. Antibiotics wouldn't have changed anything.

          • (Score: 1) by Francis on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:08PM

            by Francis (5544) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:08PM (#420537)

            Amputation in diabetics is usually a matter of circulation and nerve damage.

            Basically, if you've got pain insensitivity you're more likely to hurt yourself without knowing that you've hurt yourself, so you're less likely to clean the wound or even know it's there. That's one of the main reasons that diabetics are encouraged to come in regularly to have their feet examined by doctors for things like that.

            To add insult to injury, diabetics often times have circulation problems which means that if there is an infected wound, the body has less of a chance of being able to fight it off or remove the buildup of puss and whatnot that results from the blood cells killing the bacteria.

            But, amputating because of an infection is something that shouldn't happen anymore because the techniques necessary to save even extremely infected limbs has been around for decades now and is less expensive than the cost of amputation.

        • (Score: 1) by Francis on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:04PM

          by Francis (5544) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:04PM (#420535)

          Nope, I've seen pictures of those kinds of infections and amputation isn't usually necessary unless there's more than just a massive infection. If a 2nd world country like Georgia doesn't need to amputate for that, then I'm not sure why a developed place like Britain would still be doing it.

          The only reasons to amputate a limb are because the vascular system, bones or nervous system has become so damaged that the limb no longer functions. Basically, if you haven't got adequate bloodflow the tissue will die, infection or no infection. And if it no longer has connections back to the brain, it's pretty much inevitable that something will happen to require amputation.

          The pictures tend to be rather gruesome, but I've seen feet that were black with infection that were ultimately saved through appropriate treatment. Basically they cut the foot open and slather a mixture of phages into the wound and let it drain. In most cases the amputation isn't necessary.

          The worst thing about it is that the only reason that treatment isn't available in the UK is that it can't pass the necessary drug trials fast enough to be approved. You use a different strain on each infection and those would have to be independently approved.

          • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:41PM

            by sjames (2882) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:41PM (#420545) Journal

            I have seen phage therapy and it does look promising for infections. However, in diabetes the problem is generally loss of circulation due to damage to the blood vessels and nerve damage. Frostbite is similar It is not not an infectious process.

            Diabetic ulcers might be helped by hyperbaric oxygen, but dry gangrene means the disease process is too far along for that.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:58PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:58PM (#420363) Homepage Journal

      I dunno about this particular AC or this story but I know I absolutely do intentionally submit bad articles sometimes just so we can have fun ripping on them occasionally. We're (all of us, staff and non) not here to curate what's good and what's bad in the news but to discuss what's out there being said. Like we're weighted towards science and tech but not exclusive, we like to be weighted towards well researched and written stories but the bad ones need talking about as well so folks can be witness to the suckness of them.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:24AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:24AM (#420375)

        What's the point of getting worked up over a lie?
        There is plenty of legit absurdity in the world, why submit fake absurdity?

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:21AM

        by Gaaark (41) on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:21AM (#420413) Journal

        I'm weighted more towards the middle, but I just need exercise! :)

        Anywho, I like a variety of stories: I don't care for something, I don't read something.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Capt. Obvious on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:43AM

        by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:43AM (#420435)

        I'm responding assuming you either are staff, or are somehow speaking for them/known them.

        We're (all of us, staff and non) not here to curate what's good and what's bad in the news but to discuss what's out there being said.

        No. I'm here to discuss stuff that is happening. I'm here to discuss new technical discoveries. I'm even here to discuss different divides in base modes of thinking (e.g. liberal/conservative, osx/linux/windows, etc.) I'm not here to discuss easily disproven rumors, clickbait, etc.

        Curation is a vital part of developing a set of news stories I want to engage in. Something is not news just 'because it is being said". Something is not news just because news agencies are covering it. Frankly, there are better sources of echo chamber like news (e.g. cable).

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:29AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:29AM (#420473) Homepage Journal

          Something is not news just because news agencies are covering it. Frankly, there are better sources of echo chamber like news (e.g. cable).

          Which is exactly why I sub the occasional shit story. I want us to rip on bad journalism instead of letting it slide on by unremarked as if we approve of it.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Monday October 31 2016, @01:17AM

            by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Monday October 31 2016, @01:17AM (#420731)

            Nowhere was I aware that "ripping on journalism" is part of this site's expected outcomes. If that's the case, it should be explicitly marked as such, because I was confused by it, and I'm pretty smart. I highly recommend that that use be either clearly flagged as such or pushed to a different site. Because, as of now, it's like being "ironically racist". I cannot tell the difference, and am going to treat you accordingly. That is, far from using the power of SN to condemn something (which I only was aware of because it was on SN), you've soiled SN's reputation in my mind./p.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 31 2016, @02:23AM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday October 31 2016, @02:23AM (#420743) Homepage Journal

              We've had promoting good journalism as a founding principle since forever. Part of that is necessarily pointing out bad journalism for contrast.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Monday October 31 2016, @04:31AM

                by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Monday October 31 2016, @04:31AM (#420779)

                You didn't point it out, you merely included it in with other stories. And I don't believe its necessary to refer to bad journalism on invented topics. There's enough on important topics.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by fritsd on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:59PM

      by fritsd (4586) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:59PM (#420365) Journal

      These are the closest attempts to this story I could get, using the Daily Mail-o-matic headline generator [qwghlm.co.uk]:

      - will political correctness give taxpayers' money diabetes?

      - will feminism give hard-working families diabetes?

      - will lesbians give pensioners diabetes?

      Yeah, yeah, I'll go to bed now...

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:18PM

    by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Saturday October 29 2016, @10:18PM (#420288)

    When did RT (Russia Times) become a credible news source? I've seen some of their literally LOL features on YouTube.

    --
    (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:53PM

        by edIII (791) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:53PM (#420360)

        Everyone, but that last one could be a point in your favor :)

        I think they got one fact wrong, or I'm even more impressed with this gentleman's ability to make do with less.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:27AM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:27AM (#420400) Journal

        Do you hear that sound? That is the sound of an echo chamber. SoylentNews should not be part of it.

      • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:45AM

        by sjames (2882) on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:45AM (#420466) Journal

        Even the best of them presents an illogical story.

        We seem to have:

        1. Frostbite on toes
        2. In hospital to get right leg amputated below the knee.
        3. Surgery cancelled due to another patient having complications
        4. Given leave to care for himself until toes get bad
        5. Six months later, Toes get bad, told it's 6 weeks till a surgery
        6. decides to keep leg?, self-amputate toes

        So was his leg to be amputated for funsies? Apparently so if his foot healed up after removing his toes.

        Did he use nail clippers or tin snips? They can't seem to agree.

        He waited 6 months of his own accord, why so burned up over a few more weeks when a doctor says it's OK?

        • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:05PM

          by RamiK (1813) on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:05PM (#420557)

          So was his leg to be amputated for funsies? Apparently so if his foot healed up after removing his toes.

          Ask his doctors. Maybe he had a second opinion. Maybe some other measure was effective. But diabetes has lots of "scheduled for amputation unless a patient makes life-style change in 10 month" procedures. I remember hearing very few patients diet down their weight as instructed and end up requiring the operation.

          Did he use nail clippers or tin snips? They can't seem to agree.

          Depends on where they did the photo-shoot and who wrote the story. If he was interviewed at his home then he probably showed what he used in the picture and then the journalists just wrote whatever they thought it was. If he traveled to a studio, they probably picked up something off the shelf and shot that.

          He waited 6 months of his own accord, why so burned up over a few more weeks when a doctor says it's OK?

          I'm guessing the doctor's tone and a sense of emergency rubbed him the wrong way? Don't know. Wasn't there.

          Overall, I wouldn't get too hung up on second and third source details. There's a reason the courts call it hearsay and dismiss it.

          --
          compiling...
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04 2016, @03:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04 2016, @03:45AM (#422362)

        Of those listed, I didn't recognise the last one and I would only expect the independent to be a reasonable source, however even the story they present isn't very credible as it is based entirely on the word of the guy who cut off his own toe. But even the best newspapers aren't to be trusted uncritically, they all publish bad stories.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:27PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday October 29 2016, @11:27PM (#420335) Homepage

      I was going to mod you down, but I'll comment instead using an underwear analogy - If you must wear a pair of dirty underwear, you generally wear the least dirty and stinky pair you can find. Or you can choose not to wear underwear at all.

      RT was never terrific, it's just that everybody else became so much worse. The disgusting level of political collusion in the American media has reached Soviet-levels of misdirection and disinformation -- and as a voracious news junkie and former fan of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, I'm terribly saddened by the current state of American media and am pretty damn-well convinced that there is a mass-organized collusion between government elements and news personnel, possibly even confidential plants.

      Of course RT, Sputnik, Drudge, and Breitbart are biased, but they are still explaining what is going on our there. The others are not. RT in particular has the moral high-ground because their war-weary sentiment echoes what the people (and not the assholes lording over them) are feeling. Russia is not the big bad-guy in the world anymore -- we, NATO, the EU bureaucrats, and the duplicitous shitheads at the UN are.

      Only a few years ago people called me crazy for saying that the NSA is spying on everybody, and look what happened - when stuff like that occurs, it validates "conspiracy theory" websites such as Infowars.

      As for me, I'm rubbing my hands together like a fly on a fresh steaming pile of shit anticipating Hillary's demise. Perhaps proof that the crooked psychotic State Department gave stinger missiles to terrorists without congressional approval, and that one or more of those were used against US troops or civilians.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:34AM (#420380)

        Only a few years ago people called me crazy for saying that the NSA is spying on everybody,

        No they weren't. When Snowden came out with his revelations my reaction was that that was just confirming what any reasonably intelligent person would've assumed was happening already.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:49AM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:49AM (#420386) Homepage

          Yes, you and I are intelligent enlightened people, I get that. Recall one of Frank Zappa's most famous comments: There are two things that are universal: Hydrogen and stupidity.

          But you'd be surprised how many government bootlickers are amongst us. A girl I dated awhile back actually said verbatim, "Well, if the NSA is spying on everybody, good, because they catch bad guys."

          Yeeeeahhhhhh...no. If something like 9/11 happens on your soil, then it didn't work or those folks are crooked.

          I work for Boston Dynamics, which was acquired by Google, and I can tell you firsthand that people can be simultaneously booksmart and life-stupid.

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:18AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:18AM (#420395)

            I also saw all kinds of people dismissing mass surveillance as a mere conspiracy theory before Snowden blew the whistle. And then there are the bootlickers you mention, who actually applaud the unconstitutional democracy-destroying surveillance. I don't see why it would be hard for someone to believe that either group exists.

            Yeeeeahhhhhh...no. If something like 9/11 happens on your soil, then it didn't work or those folks are crooked.

            Not only that, but even if the unconstitutional mass surveillance did increase security, our freedom and our Constitution are more important than security.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:45AM (#420383)

        I'm terribly saddened by the current state of American media and am pretty damn-well convinced that there is a mass-organized collusion between government elements and news personnel, possibly even confidential plants.

        What these organizations are not telling us is they are all monetary failures at this point. They have gone all in on eye ball advertising kool aid. It is all the have left. Hiring people who know what they are doing is expensive. Pundants that talk and talk and talk control the airwaves. As they draw in viewers. Actual news is controlled to fit whatever narrative the boss is contributing to this week. Interns are cheap and 'know the internet'.

        Billionaires have started collecting them like coins. The reality is about 6-8 corporations with major stakeholders of said billionaires are using them to set the agenda they want. The internet has completely changed the landscape of how news is done. In a sea of information only eye catching click bait draws people in. Competition amongst the big ones is low. But the volume of what they spit out is very high. Then they have to compete with every other yonk out there that things putting up a 'blog' or 'tweet' is making news.

        A few years ago you waited until the evening paper. Then the 6/11oclock news to find out what was going on. Then it morphed into 'just turn on CNN and find out'. Now everyone just pops onto reddit or twitter and see what everyone is chatting about. We went from an army of people trying to 'get the scoop' to an army of people trying 'to get the click'.

        Now if you will excuse me I need to find out the top 10 ways my shampoo is killing me and number 8 is supposed to be cray cray.

        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:59AM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:59AM (#420390) Homepage

          What those idiots fail to understand is that even a retard can see what is going on. As an example close to me, the San Diego UT Paper. You see a mouthpiece of conservative establishment go liberal establishment overnight with a new buyer, and of course you're gonna see a death-spiral of subscriptions.

          The conservatives subscribing to your paper consider you a traitor, and the liberals consider you too inconsistent to trust in the long-term.

          Those people like me who prefer to read a dead-tree newspaper every morning will just say, "Fuck it" and go fuck off to the internet where (amazingly) journalism can still live without turning yellow.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:54AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:54AM (#420428)

            Our local Buffalo News is owned by Buffet, seems to be holding a steady course. The coverage isn't quite as good as it used to be, but there are still reporters that go out and research stories. No huge change in political outlook, fairly moderate, they often endorse local candidates from different parties.

            Recently a weekend feature is reprinting front pages from 50 years ago (Vietnam war and space-race news are prominent) and the difference is interesting. Back then the front page might have included a dozen stories and more little headlines pointing inside, these days it's more like five or six stories on the front page...in a larger font.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:43AM

        by Gaaark (41) on Sunday October 30 2016, @02:43AM (#420419) Journal

        ^This!

        Is American media ANY better than, say Russian 'media'? Which one? I find I go to several sites in order to try to read between the lines and get to a truth, but a lot (most)people are sheeple, and they go to CNN and get CNN's 'truth'.

        How is America any different from Russia?

        The land of the free??? Where you can be arrested and held without counsel, Gulag style??
        Where they can't even get an election off the ground without machines that have known 'hack' problems?
        They won't let the Russians observe the election process because they know the Russians will just laugh at their electoral process???

        Where the American agencies spy on its own people?

        Where Trump gets as far as he did?
        Where Hillary gets a pass from the director of the FBI??

        In which ways is America NOT Russia? REALLY!?!?! Please enlighten me!

        I also hope Hillary get fried with these emails. But Trump!

        I say, just declare this election BSOD'd, and reboot it. Put Not Trump up against Not Hillary and let them POLL-style debate.... hand grenade hot potato!

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:02AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:02AM (#420464)

        Only a few years ago people called me crazy for saying that the NSA is spying on everybody, and look what happened - when stuff like that occurs, it validates "conspiracy theory" websites such as Infowars.

        Meh, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

  • (Score: 2) by number6 on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:26AM

    by number6 (1831) on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:26AM (#420399) Journal

    I would find (pay) a person to assistant me.
    The surgery would be performed like this:
      - Swallow morphine tablets or inject morphine liquid (gotten from a doctor).
      - Wait till morphine kicks in.
      - Tell assistant to put me to sleep by MMA Rear Naked Choke Sleeper Hold.
      - While I am knocked-out, Assistant quickly cuts the toes off using a well-made sharp tool.
      - Job is done.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:34AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:34AM (#420460)

    Why did this have to be done by a surgeon?
    maybe minor stuff like this could be done by doctors, or even nurses.
    or create some minor surgeon doctor dude thingy that doesn't take years and years of degrees to obtain to do minor stuff like this.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:49AM (#420474)

      because then we'd be reading how the socialist NHS uses UNTRAINED doctors and nurses to do surgery. duh.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by rleigh on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:36AM

    by rleigh (4887) on Sunday October 30 2016, @08:36AM (#420461) Homepage

    Gangrene can kill in days when in spreads, so it seems very unusual for this to have a waiting list.

    Just to provide some contrast to the story from my own experience. Three years ago, I was on a mountaineering holiday in Braemar and badly cut my foot when I slipped barefoot in a river one evening and cleaned it as best as I could. 24 hours later when I was back home, I went to the A&E at the hospital in Dundee to have it looked at. They looked at it, ordered an x-ray and then admitted me immediately. Turned out the cut went down to the bone and was infected with gangrene, and I spent 4 days on IV antibiotics and had to be operated on under general anaesthetic to get it cleaned out. I did have to wait 24 hours for the operation, due to a backlog of more urgent cases, but that was fine since I was in there for several days hooked up to an IV anyway. The point being, if it's life-threatening, you won't have to wait.

    Reading the original story, I'm a bit amazed that the bloke discharged himself. His operation got cancelled because of trouble with the previous patient. That's not unusual; they only have so many hours in the day, and more serious cases get priority. Like me, he would probably have been re-booked for the next day. I got added to the non-urgent list at the end of the next day (non-urgent since I'd been on antibiotics for 48h and wasn't in immediate danger). Once you're "in the system", leaving prematurely probably screws up the paperwork and results in you getting lost. If you're there you will be noticed!

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:31PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:31PM (#420490)

      I went to the A&E

      That's what made the story so weird, the root cause is some mental issues such that the dude has enough agency and motivation to chop off his own body parts but not enough motivation to get up off the couch and visit what we'd call the "ER".

      Aside from turning mental illness into a spectacle, our Obamacare system is objectively a complete failure for the general public, although highly profitable for certain people and corporations, so expect incoming bombardment with endless propaganda about how changing anything in health care would be a disaster, all health care systems are worse than the failed USA model, etc.

      Why RT would care is mysterious, probably more an aspect of first paragraph than second. Its clickbait-ish too, I suppose.

      Well about that time I cut my hand on a broken coffee mug, I could have tried to schedule a plastic surgeon and get a "see ya in six weeks" therefore stayed home and amputated my entire arm to stop the bleeding, but what I actually did was go to the ER and they stitched me up and I was outta there in two hours and good as new in a week or two. The bill, which insurance paid, was of course about two kilobucks. What it actually cost in terms of materials and cleanup and even a high pay rate for skilled labor would be maybe $100 to $200, with the rest being overhead. Because it was my hand the doc had to fuss with stitches for what felt like ten minutes (was probably like two) instead of staples, so the expense was a little higher than you'd guess. I suspect "clean, staple, and bandage the wound" would have been like only $40 instead.