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posted by martyb on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:26AM   Printer-friendly
from the peaceful-protest-vs-armed-protest dept.

Catholic Online reports

On Thursday [October 27], the Bundy gang of ranchers who took over a federal building in Oregon and led a 41-day standoff were acquitted on all charges. At least five of the seven surviving militia members will now walk free from federal custody as a result. Ammon Bundy will not be released however because he still faces charges in Nevada over the standoff at his father's ranch two years ago. His brother, Ryan Bundy also remains in custody. An eighth member of their gang was killed by police when the standoff drew to an end.

[...]The Bundy gang also staged their occupation on sacred Native American land. This cannot be condoned; it would be like legitimizing the armed takeover of a parish church.

[...]At the same time the Bundy gang was being acquitted, heavily armed paramilitary-police moved into the crowds at Cannonball, North Dakota gassing and arresting protesters. The key difference in this case is [that] the protesters in North Dakota are peaceful and unarmed.

[...] During Thursday's protest, a fire broke out at the site and police moved in with riot gear and military-grade armored vehicles. They attacked the crowd with tear gas, a sound cannon, batons, and bean-bag ammunition. Police are evicting the protesters by force to make way for the pipeline's construction. Protesters have built barricades to keep authorities at bay.

Peoples World continues

[Continues...]

Encampment at Standing Rock cleared; over 140 arrested

Police and those present at the #NoDAPL protest encampment yesterday say that protesters have been cleared from the northern camp along the Cannon Ball River near the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation in North Dakota. News reports say over 140 people were arrested, and officers used pepper spray against protesters but no serious injuries were reported.

Beginning at 11:15 am MT [PDF], officers moved toward a group of people camping out near highway 1806 near the town of Cannon Ball, ND. According to the Associated Press, some of the officers were in riot gear, some were armed, and they arrived with soldiers driving trucks and military Humvees. They also deployed helicopters and an airplane that monitored them from above.

The Federal Aviation Administration began restricting flights over the area on Tuesday afternoon [October 25], and will continue to do so until Nov. 5, according to the FAA website, which cites "hazards" in the area.

The police operation came the day after the Morton County Sheriff's Department asked protesters to leave the land, [PDF] which is in the path of the Dakota Access Pipeline under construction.

Additionally, over the last several weeks, over 140 "water and land protectors", as those protesting the building of the Dakota Access oil pipeline call themselves, have been arrested during police raids. The mainstream media has remained relatively mum about the human rights violations that have been unfolding at Standing Rock, where the construction of the multi-billion dollar funded Dakota Access Pipeline is underway.

[...] Frustrations continue to rise as [a] media blackout continues.

[...] Many have voiced outrage over the selective coverage being given by the media to such a critical issue.

Update:

Last week, Energy Transfer Partners, the company constructing the Dakota Access Pipeline, voluntarily stopped work at the building site just North of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation.

The Army Corps of Engineers has confirmed that the company doesn't have a written easement from the agency to build on Corps property. A Corps spokesperson says that Energy Transfer Partners has filed the paperwork for the easement but it's still under review.

Previous Coverage:
Ammon & Ryan Bundy Arrested in Oregon; One Dead in Shootout with Cops
Militia Occupies Federal Building in Oregon After Rancher Arson Convictions


Original Submission

Related Stories

Militia Occupies Federal Building in Oregon After Rancher Arson Convictions 131 comments

NPR is reporting on this tale of direct action:

A self-styled militia in eastern Oregon grabbed national headlines Saturday when they broke into the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. There the armed group remains Sunday, occupying the federal building in protest of what it sees as government overreach on rangelands throughout the western United States.

"We stand in defense," Ammon Bundy, the group's apparent leader and spokesperson, told Oregon Public Broadcasting. "And when the time is right we will begin to defend the people of Harney County, [Ore.,] in using the land and the resources."

Ammon's brother, Ryan, has reportedly used harsher rhetoric, saying members of the militia are willing to kill or be killed.

Their last name may ring a bell. Ammon and Ryan Bundy are sons of rancher Cliven Bundy, who notably took part in an armed standoff with the federal Bureau of Land Management, or BLM, in Nevada in 2014.

Ammon Bundy now is part of a group of 15 to 150 people — depending on which source you believe — who are protesting the arson convictions of two Oregon ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steven.

Also at Oregon Live, NYT, and the Associated Press.


Original Submission

Breaking News: Ammon & Ryan Bundy Arrested in Oregon; One Dead in Shootout with Cops 136 comments

Previously: Militia Occupies Federal Building in Oregon After Rancher Arson Convictions

Russia Today reports:

Ammon Bundy, the leader of the armed group occupying a federal wildlife refuge near Burns, Oregon, and four others have been arrested by law enforcement amid gunfire, according to the FBI.

At 4:25 pm on [January 26], the FBI and Oregon State Police "began an enforcement action to bring into custody a number of individuals associated with the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. During that arrest, there were shots fired", the Bureau said in a statement.

The FBI said one person who was "a subject of a federal probable cause arrest is deceased". He said they are not releasing any information on the person "pending identification by the medical examiner's office".

One person suffered non-life threatening injuries and was taken to a local hospital for treatment. He was arrested and is in custody.

The arrested individuals include:
- Ammon Edward Bundy, age 40, of Emmett, Idaho.
- Ryan C. Bundy, age 43, of Bunkerville, Nevada.
- Brian Cavalier, age 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada.
- Shawna Cox, age 59, of Kanab, Utah.
- Ryan Waylen Payne, age 32, of Anaconda, Montana.

CNN, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, OregonLive.


Original Submission

US District Court: Approval of Dakota Access Pipeline Violated the Law 32 comments

AlterNet reports

A federal judge ruled [June 14] that the Trump administration must conduct additional environmental review of the Dakota Access Pipeline, handing a limited victory to Native American tribes fighting the administration's decision to move forward with the project.

In an extensive opinion,[PDF][1] Washington, DC District Court Judge James Boasberg sided with the tribes by agreeing the Army Corps of Engineers "did not consider the impacts of an oil spill on fishing rights, human rights, or environmental justice."

[...] Boasberg did not order a shutdown of operations on the pipeline, which began pumping oil early this month. The tribes and pipeline owner Energy Transfer Partners are ordered to appear in court next week to decide next legal steps, and the tribes are expected to argue for a full shutdown of pipeline operations.

[1] Link in article redirects.

Previous coverage:
Dakota Access Pipeline Suffers Oil Leak Even Before Becoming Operational
Recent News Dispatches From Standing Rock (DAPL)
Army Corp of Engineers Now Accepting Public Comment on the Dakota Access Pipeline
Army Corps of Engineers Blocks the Dakota Access Pipeline
Standing Rock Protester May Lose Her Arm Because of Police Grenades
Water Cannons Used in Sub-Freezing Temperatures at Dakota Access Oil Pipeline Protest
Standing Rock Protestors Gassed and Attacked; Bundy Gang Acquitted [Updated]
Journalist Charged in North Dakota with Rioting; Case is Dismissed


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:27AM

    And the lesson here is: if you're going to protest, be armed while you do.

    --
    ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:07PM (#420484)

      > And the lesson here is: if you're going to protest, be armed while you do.

      Yeah. That worked out great for LaVoy Finicum [cnn.com]

      The actual lesson here is: Being white still rocks.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:08PM (#420485)

        Yes, being white will get you shot.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:25PM

        Yeah. That worked out great for LaVoy Finicum

        It did in fact. Death should always be preferable to allowing your liberty to be infringed for any American.

        The actual lesson here is: Being white still rocks.

        Racist fool.

        --
        ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:41PM (#420491)

          > It did in fact. Death should always be preferable to allowing your liberty to be infringed for any American.

          Lol. Big talk internet tough guy.

          > Racist fool.

          Takes one to know one.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:47PM

            Oh noes! Your fourth grade level retorts have undone me entirely! However shall I go on?

            --
            ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
            • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:52PM (#420493)

              Apparently by posting more ego-defending whines.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Fauxlosopher on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:51PM

        by Fauxlosopher (4804) on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:51PM (#420532) Journal

        Funny you should mention LaVoy Finicum's death - turns out one of the FBI guys shot him in the chest with a "rubber bullet", and only afterwards is LaVoy seen "reaching for his chest" multiple times. Don't take my word for it, though: we can look at the FBI's video for the evidence.

        One of the passengers in LaVoy's truck released a complete, uncut video-and-audio recording of the entire incident, which was synced with the FBI video to provide a more complete picture. As a result, the following two videos present clear evidence of premeditated murder of LaVoy Finicum by members of the FBI. (Once it it known what to look for, the evidence can be clearly seen in the FBI's own aerial camera recording of LaVoy's murder [youtube.com] even in the low-res version on YouTube.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBWQtH2PhJ0 [youtube.com] ("The Foam Bullet Used to Justify Killing LaVoy Finicum", 26min; detailing LaVoy being shot prior to lowering his arms)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpO6Oh0r2U [youtube.com] ("LaVoy Finicum Assassination Forensic Study Released!", 50min; covers the premeditated setup for murder by FBI, including the first stop before the roadblock, and the roadblock just after a blind curve on a downhill grade)

        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:16PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:16PM (#420563) Homepage Journal

          The FBI also carried out a summary execution of Chris Dorner -- although I think that was a fake op to test whether or not the public would tolerate summary executions as well as public support of the law in general (by seeing how much support Dorner garnered).

          Then you have Waco and Ruby Ridge and the Leonard Peltier incident. American federal law enforcement services should be held to a higher standard and refrain from banana-republic style lawlessness, even if the Waco and Ruby Ridge guys were a little on the nutty side.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:53PM (#420663)

            #ChristianExtremistLivesMatter

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @12:05AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @12:05AM (#420716)

              Mormon Spiritual Wives Matter!

        • (Score: 1) by Burz on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:43PM

          by Burz (6156) on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:43PM (#420710)

          LaVoy has been recorded in the past saying his purpose was to force police to kill him. He espoused a wannabe-martyr's world view... a truly crazy dipshit.

          And yes, charging at cops with a vehicle (and nearly missing one) is one way to accomplish that. Doubly so if you are supposed to have your hands in the air and reach for towards a part of your body that just happens to be holding a semi-automatic weapon while you're approaching said cops.

          If he didn't want to get shot and was really trying to surrender, the smartest thing to do would have been to leave the weapon in the truck or at the very least keep his hands in the air.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @02:28AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @02:28AM (#420745)

            LaVoy has been recorded in the past saying his purpose was to force police to kill him

            Where's a link for context? I showed you mine. (I even provided context in the grandparent's linked videos regarding LaVoy stating "you're gonna have to shoot me", in that LaVoy was on his way to meet with law enforcement when he was killed, namely the sheriff of the next county.

            charging at cops with a vehicle (and nearly missing one) is [committing suicide by cop]

            Yeah, it's easy to make such a claim when you ignore the fact that said cop was next to a roadblock, said roadblock was on a blind curve and on a down-grade. Or... you could look at the video I linked - here's another link to the specific relative section of LaVoy's truck and its calculated speed upon approach to the roadblock [youtube.com].

            If he didn't want to get shot and was really trying to surrender, the smartest thing to do would have been to leave the weapon in the truck or at the very least keep his hands in the air

            You apparently didn't even bother to read the very comment you responded to: one of the FBI guys shot him in the chest with a "rubber bullet", and only afterwards is LaVoy seen "reaching for his chest" multiple times". Go back, read it again, and if you're interested in an actual discussion on the matter, examine the evidence presented in the videos which were provided for you to view and critique.

            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Burz on Monday November 07 2016, @07:01PM

              by Burz (6156) on Monday November 07 2016, @07:01PM (#423687)

              This is actually funny, its so detached from reality.

              People get to keep speeding when approaching a MANNED police roadblock? ...which didn't suddenly materialize right in front of him.

              And that's just for starters.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 15 2016, @04:23AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 15 2016, @04:23AM (#426857)

                People get to keep speeding when approaching a MANNED police roadblock? ...which didn't suddenly materialize right in front of him.

                The clearly-labelled link in the post you replied to [soylentnews.org] contains information which directly contradicts your "claims". Here it is again: LaVoy did not "continue to speed" at the roadblock; the roadblock did very much appear suddenly to anyone rounding the preceeding curve. [youtube.com]

                And that's just for starters.

                Oh, do go on.

                I'll keep a closer eye out now that I see you like to wait a week to compose your wordy and witty replies apparently consisting of nothing but implied ad hominem and ignoring spoon-fed supporting evidence.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:26PM

      by Thexalon (636) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:26PM (#420488) Homepage

      There are 2 other possible lessons here:
      1. If you're going to protest, be white.
      2. Opposing the government, even using threats of lethal force, is just fine, but opposing the megacorps, even without breaking any laws, that will get you into real trouble.

      Of those, #2 is more likely, because what they're doing to the NoDAPL people is identical to the basic tactics used against Occupy Wall Street. In essence, destroy protests by force.

      --
      If you act on pie in the sky, you're likely to get pie in the face.
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:01PM

        1) Dude, racist much?
        2) Dude, cynical much?

        The difference was a hell of a lot of angry people were paying attention to the Bundy incident. Right now the only thing getting paid attention to is the election.

        --
        ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:25PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @01:25PM (#420500)

          > 1) Dude, racist much?

          He who smelt it dealt it!

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mcgrew on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:14PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:14PM (#420562) Homepage Journal

          Dude, racist much?

          Realistic, not racist. He's pointing out the racism that's inherent in the system. When blacks or Hispanics or indigenous people protest, they're in far more danger of physical harm from the authorities than whites.

          Racism is a tool of the rich to keep the poor at each other's throats so the poor ignore society's inherent classism. Why is it that a rich man can brag publicly about sexually assaulting women and still have half the country rooting for him to be president?

          If anyone I know spoke like that, he'd be a pariah. Why is it okay for a rich person to be an asshole?

          --
          Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
          • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday October 30 2016, @06:32PM

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @06:32PM (#420589) Journal

            Why is it that a rich man can brag publicly about sexually assaulting women and still have half the country rooting for him to be president?

            It should be noted that a significant percentage of Trump supporters are more interested in preventing Clinton from winning than they are in "rooting for" Trump in any major way. A Pew Center poll last month found that only 28% of Trump supporters would actually be "excited" if he won, with the largest category (61%) saying they'd merely feel "relieved."

            Obviously there are a scary number of Trump sycophants out there, but they're far outnumbered by people who think they're "choosing the lesser of two evils."

            Why is it okay for a rich person to be an asshole?

            Lots of people fantasize about being rich. A significant number of people likely fantasize about how that would enable them to "not live by the rules" most people have to. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all that there are a significant number of men who'd just love to be able to grab whatever beautiful woman was around them whenever they wanted. Most would never actually consider such a thing, but for them, Trump gets to "live the dream."

            Maybe? I don't really know. The militant Trump supporters are so confusing to me that it's difficult for me to imagine what goes on inside their heads.

            • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:40PM

              by isostatic (365) on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:40PM (#420612) Journal

              I suspect most Clinton supporters will be the same - relieved when trump loses, but not particularly excited by more status quo. On the other hand people were excited by Obama and hardly anything groundbreaking appear to happen

              • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 31 2016, @02:20PM

                by tangomargarine (667) on Monday October 31 2016, @02:20PM (#420865)

                On the other hand people were excited by Obama and hardly anything groundbreaking appear to happen

                And on the gripping hand, one of those things that didn't happen was the apocalypse

                --
                "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @12:54AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @12:54AM (#420725)

              It should be noted that a significant percentage of Trump supporters are more interested in preventing Clinton from winning than they are in "rooting for" Trump in any major way. A Pew Center poll last month found that only 28% of Trump supporters would actually be "excited" if he won, with the largest category (61%) saying they'd merely feel "relieved."

              Obviously there are a scary number of Trump sycophants out there, but they're far outnumbered by people who think they're "choosing the lesser of two evils."

              While I am sympathetic that many do not want Hillary as President, I am having a hard time with people who think that Trump is a viable alternative. So, you don't want Hillary? Fine. Why not choose a third party candidate instead? Let's just have a reality check here. Trump is not a Republican; he has merely found a bunch of useful idiots who haven't yet noticed that he has rebranded the Republican party as the party of Trump.

              Lots of people fantasize about being rich. A significant number of people likely fantasize about how that would enable them to "not live by the rules" most people have to. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all that there are a significant number of men who'd just love to be able to grab whatever beautiful woman was around them whenever they wanted. Most would never actually consider such a thing, but for them, Trump gets to "live the dream."

              If this is true then it does not speak at all well of today's Republican party. For everyone's sake, I hope it is not true.

              Maybe? I don't really know. The militant Trump supporters are so confusing to me that it's difficult for me to imagine what goes on inside their heads.

              There are lots of things about this election cycle that I find baffling. It is like the nation I once knew--the country I was born and raised in--has been stood on it's head!

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 31 2016, @12:59AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 31 2016, @12:59AM (#420728) Journal
                Same goes for the Democrat party here. This would be the election to vote third party.
          • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday October 30 2016, @09:11PM

            Why is it that a rich man can brag publicly about sexually assaulting women and still have half the country rooting [urbandictionary.com] for him to be president?

            Here in Oz that wording is... appropriate?... inappropriate?... ironic?... have to settle for funny, but in a strange way.

            If anyone I know spoke like that, he'd be a pariah. Why is it okay for a rich person to be an asshole?

            A pariah CAN have lots of money, but they're still a pariah. In a civilised place.

            --
            It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:51PM

            Funny, whenever I'm realistic about race, I get called a racist. I guess it's okay to shit on white guys simply because of the color of their skin but anyone else you're a racist.

            --
            ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:57PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:57PM (#420691)

              I guess it's okay to shit on white guys simply because of the color of their skin but anyone else you're a racist.

              Dude, didn't you get the memo? "Racism" now means 'prejudice based on race, with power', so it's IMPOSSIBLE for any non-white minority to be racist no matter how hard they try or how loudly they scream 'he white! beat his shit!" before doing so. In summary: whites are ALL racist, non-whites CANNOT be racist.

              You racist.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:42PM

          by Thexalon (636) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @07:42PM (#420614) Homepage

          1) Dude, racist much?

          No, I'm acknowledging that American society is racist. Which is very easy to demonstrate, when you have police killing black guys like Philando Castille and John Crawford III for no reason whatsoever (neither had committed a crime) and nobody being punished, while white guys like the Bundys can point AR-15's at government officers, break into government buildings, vandalize federal property, and not be punished. Now, if you are going to tell me that race has nothing to do with it, you're going to have to come up with some darn good explanations.

          --
          If you act on pie in the sky, you're likely to get pie in the face.
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 30 2016, @10:53PM

            False dichotomy. Many, many more white people are killed by cops every year and nobody thinks that's racially motivated.

            --
            ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
            • (Score: 2) by Pav on Monday October 31 2016, @12:43AM

              by Pav (114) on Monday October 31 2016, @12:43AM (#420723)

              "Many, many more" translates to almost twice as many... or to put it another way, you're almost three times as likely to be shot if you are black, and over twice as likely even if you're black and unarmed. Even if you want to deny the racial component the police are killing more people of all races despite violent crime being at historic lows. Also, the number of killings per department are not strongly correlated to levels of crime (or lack thereof) in a particular city, so there's a problem even if you don't want to acknowledge the racial component of it.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 31 2016, @01:03AM

                False. Do the math yourself. Don't rely on pundits.

                --
                ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
                • (Score: 2) by Pav on Monday October 31 2016, @01:28AM

                  by Pav (114) on Monday October 31 2016, @01:28AM (#420734)

                  The burden of truth certainly isn't on this side of the argument. Like all received wisdom I've checked the math on one or two random facts... not exhaustively, but enough to give me confidence. Links in articles included FBI statistics and reputable research from respected institutions. No, I'm not going to look it all up again for you.

                  • (Score: 2) by Pav on Monday October 31 2016, @01:31AM

                    by Pav (114) on Monday October 31 2016, @01:31AM (#420735)

                    Burden of PROOF (not truth)... but meaning is the same I guess.

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 31 2016, @02:22AM

                    I did the math myself from government sources. It said a factor of something like 1.2 and it was confirmed by someone disagreeing with me right here, though I haven't verified which way that went yet, meaning either white people or black people are only ~20% more likely to be shot by police than the other. Now 20% still ain't inside statistical irrelevancy like it should be but it sure as shit ain't 2-3 times as likely.

                    --
                    ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @03:02AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @03:02AM (#420752)

                      > I did the math myself from government sources.

                      That's funny. Not only does the mighty bullshiter have his own opinions, he's got his own government sources.

            • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 31 2016, @02:27PM

              by tangomargarine (667) on Monday October 31 2016, @02:27PM (#420867)

              Many, many more white people are killed by cops every year and nobody thinks that's racially motivated.

              That's because there's more of them. You're familiar with what the word "minority" means, right? By the math, whitey should get in trouble ~5.75x (72.4% vs. 12.6%) as often as blacks if we assume egalitarian police trouble.

              False dichotomy.

              Speaking of logical failures...

              --
              "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @04:06PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @04:06PM (#420913)

                That assumes racial parity in conduct apt to result in negative police interactions.

                This is something of a third rail - suggesting that the melanin-empowered are crime-prone is obviously racist. But the case that criminal activities are evenly spread throughout society is, at best, unproven.

                Many studies of a sociological nature point to cultural effects correlating with economic circumstances, and then segue into suggesting that institutionalised racism resulted in a race-based crime outcome, but there you get into chicken/egg arguments as well.

                Suffice to say that a simple observation that white people are proportionally less likely to be arrested is not effective evidence of racism as such.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 31 2016, @06:06PM

                By the math, whitey should get in trouble ~5.75x (72.4% vs. 12.6%) as often as blacks if we assume egalitarian police trouble.

                I can't tell if you're saying the police give passes to every other race or if you're saying black people are just more crime prone. I hope it's the latter because the former is obvious horse shit.

                --
                ( o Y o ) <---- Look, boobies!
                • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 31 2016, @06:31PM

                  by tangomargarine (667) on Monday October 31 2016, @06:31PM (#420960)

                  I'm not making any claim; I'm just pointing out your statement is disingenuous. Obviously white people get in trouble more since there's way more of them. If we took the total number of blacks arrested and the total number of whites arrested in the U.S. and the black number was higher *in total* obviously something is deeply, deeply wrong. (Which is not to say there's not already a problem; it's just not at that scope.)

                  This whole argument going up to the GGGGP or whatever (your first reply) is moronic.

                  --
                  "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:24PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @03:24PM (#420527)

        Nobody was about to build anything in Oregon. Law enforcement could just wait, like a medieval siege.

        On the newly "sacred" land (oh please) there was a need to get stuff done.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:44PM (#420547)

          On the newly "sacred" land (oh please) there was a need to get stuff done.

          The very reason the pipeline is being built where it is is due to it being moved away from an earlier proposed route due to a nearby "regular USian" city objecting to the pipeline's proximity due to potential oil spills.

          So, once again, the wheels of USian government turn in a manner to crush the rights of Native Americans in spite of promises and treaties made. What, "undisturbed use and occupation [sacredstonecamp.org]" of your lands? That's soooo 1868.

          The Standing Rock protesters, much like those at Bunkerville [youtube.com] and Malheur [youtube.com], were on the moral high ground against a deceitful and malicious enemy of all Americans.

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:02PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:02PM (#420554) Homepage Journal

      Yes, mister FBI or ATF agent, I totally agree. In fact, I am now loading my illegal unserialized fully-automatic military-style assault rifle's 200-round magazines full of baby-killing ammo and readying my molotov cocktails and flaming arrows.

      And I will also bring nunchaku, because in addition to being illegal in many states they have the added bonus of making you look really cool, especially while yelling fake Chinese gibberish. I'll have those jackbooted government thugs cowering in fear!

      To get to the protest I will drive in my unregistered truck with its illegally modified exhaust system. *BBbbbbbPPPPRPTPTPTPTPTPTPTPTP!*

    • (Score: 1) by mtm_king on Monday October 31 2016, @05:08AM

      by mtm_king (6133) on Monday October 31 2016, @05:08AM (#420790)

      Like your sig.

      --
      Hey
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:31AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:31AM (#420480)

    "The Bundy gang" sounds like a group of old West outlaws. Seems like biased reporting to me. Also, it's called No Ma'am, Al Bundy founded it in the 90s.

    • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:43AM

      by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:43AM (#420482)

      (cleans Dr. Pepper out of nose and off of keyboard and screen....)
      You win this thread AC...

      --
      It's the Creamsicle Charlatan vs. The Pantsuited Enabler. It should be on WWE, not our ballots.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by fritsd on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:18PM

    by fritsd (4586) on Sunday October 30 2016, @12:18PM (#420486) Journal

    I don't know what causes the difference?

    Is there a large political difference between the governments of Oregon and Dakota? The *decision* to send in police to convince the protestors to move away, is probably out of the judicial system.
    But the choice and nature of the *amount of force used* in the clearing operation, is probably decided by the local executive government.
    Bean bag ammunition is a very rough thing to use, people can easily lose an eye with that if they get it in their face.

    If there is no clear political difference between those two states, and if it's not due to the way the protestors are armed (as tmb noticed), then I'd just generalize, and say that obviously, the USA government has a policy to harass protestors who want to defend its environment (in North Dakota), and on the other side of the petro-industry coin, it is extra lenient towards protestors who occupy a location significant for its religion and nature (in Oregon). Although the local government of Oregon should be congratulated at their success of ending the protest without violence.

    So: native American religion unimportant, nature unimportant, post-Hubbard-peak oil pipeline important.
    Conclusion: the USA government doesn't give 2 shits about its environment, and hasn't thought ahead a lot about the 21st century.

    The USA government probably don't realize yet, that once you're far enough beyond Hubbard's peak, the location where the oil comes from is wherever the energy is cheapest (synthetic fuel or biogas-to-liquids), and where the energy is cheapest is more distributed around the country than before (property of renewable energy is that it's less centralized in large power plants). No need for oil pipelines anymore, ever. Better save that money for a beer pipeline [theguardian.com].

    Gasoline burns to water vapour and CO2 in a chemical process. Ergo, you can reconstitute gasoline from sparkling water, you just need energy and the right catalysts and process steps [newscientist.com].

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:02PM (#420533)

      the local government of Oregon should be congratulated at their success of ending the protest without violence.

      Wait, what? What else would you call the killing of one of the Oregon/Malheur figureheads if not violence? Amusement [thementalmilitia.net]?

      • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:43PM

        by fritsd (4586) on Sunday October 30 2016, @04:43PM (#420546) Journal

        You're right; I'm sorry. But you have to admit that it could have been much more than 1 casualty in that situation. Even in Europe we have heard of Waco Texas [wikipedia.org].

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:05PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @05:05PM (#420556)

          you have to admit that it could have been much more than 1 casualty in that situation. Even in Europe we have heard of Waco Texas.

          Agreed, the death toll at Malheur could have been higher. There are any number of paths to take in further response, from the USian viewpoint that the initiation of force is violence even if it is from government agents (which then means that almost all the Malheur protesters have been victims of violence through arrest and trials backed by government guns), to the explaination that the US government is keenly aware of how heavily armed and alert swaths of the USian populace is of government tendancies to murder civilians. The latter is known to have produced a promise of "no more free Wacos", summed up by one militia leader from New Mexico, Bob Wright, when asked if he and his crew would show up at another FBI standoff if the feds started killing people: "why would I do that? There's plenty of you federal bastards around here."

          The USA is unspeakably exposed to determined individuals wishing to do violence. Just a tiny sampling would include Christopher Dorner [wikipedia.org], the Beltway "Snipers" [wikipedia.org], Marvin Heemeyer [wikipedia.org], and Joe Stack [wikipedia.org]. Because of this, I think it sensible to attribute any "government leniency" to a fearful sense of self-preservation rather than any sort of morality or magnanimousity.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:20PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:20PM (#420700)

    Similarities to the violent police actions which broke up the peaceful Occupy assemblies have been noted in this (meta)thread.
    With the multi-state coordination involved, once again, there were federal officers involved in the planning and execution of this attack on peaceful protesters.

    Indigenous Environment Network reports [commondreams.org] via Common Dreams

    Police from 5 States Escalate Violence & Shoot Horses to Clear 1851 Treaty Camp

    At approximately 11am, over 300 police officers in riot gear, on 8 ATVs, 5 armored vehicles, 2 helicopters, and numerous military-grade Humvees showed up north of the newly formed frontline camp just east of Highway 1806. The 1851 Treaty Camp was set up directly in the path of the pipeline, on land recently purchased by Dakota Access. Yesterday this camp, a reclamation of unceded Lakota territory affirmed as part of the Standing Rock Reservation in the Ft. Laramie Treaty of 1851, was violently cleared. Both blockades established to enable that occupation were also cleared.

    Pepper spray, percussion grenades, and shotguns were fired into the crowd with less lethal ammunition. A sound cannon was also used (see images below). At least one person was tased and the barbed hook lodged in his face, just below his eye. Another was hit in the face by a rubber bullet.

    [...]A member of the International Indigenous Youth Council (IIYC) whose wrist was broken during a mass-arrest on October 22nd was hurt again after an officer gripped her visibly injured wrist and twisted it during an attempted arrest. At least six other members of the youth council verified that they had been maced up to five times and were also shot and hit with bean bag rounds.

    [...]Two medics giving aid at front line were hit with batons and thrown off the car they were sitting on. Police grabbed another medic who was driving a car out of the driver side while it was still in motion. Another water protector had to jump into the car to stop it from hitting other people.

    Members of the horse nation herded around 100 buffalo from the west and southwest of the Cannonball Ranch onto the the DAPL easement. One rider was reportedly hit with up to four rubber bullets his horse was reported to be hit in the legs by live rounds. Another horse was shot and did not survive.

    [...]Law enforcement from at least five states (North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wyoming, Nebraska) were present today through EMAC, the Emergency Management Assistance Compact. This law was passed by the Bill Clinton administration and allows states to share law enforcement forces during emergencies. It is intended for natural disasters and has only been used twice for protests; once in the summer of 2015 during the demonstrations in Baltimore and here on the Standing Rock Reservation.

    [...]Eryn Wise of the International Indigenous Youth Council stated, "Yesterday more than half of our youth council were attacked, injured, or arrested. In addition to our brothers and sisters being hurt and incarcerated, we saw police steal our sacred staff.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:22PM (#420702)

    The World Socialist Web Site reports [wsws.org])

    More than 300 riot police from five states and National Guard troops were deployed Thursday against anti-pipeline protesters in Cannon Ball, North Dakota, violently arresting 141 protesters camped near Highway 1806.

    [...]The police were supported by all-terrain vehicles, mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) vehicles, Humvees, helicopters, and at least one sound cannon. They attacked protesters with batons, pepper spray, stun guns, concussion grenades, and bean bag rounds, killing at least one horse.

    [...]Police were bused in early Thursday morning, approaching the campsite in a tightly-knit horseshoe formation, tearing down tipis, tents, and other improvised structures. Police targeted medics, snatching aid supplies from them, and dragging them away from their aid vehicles. One medic was dragged out of her car, marked with a red cross, while she was driving. Another protester had to jump into the car to stop it from hitting other people.

    [...]One man who was dressed as a protester drove through a barricade in a truck owned by a subsidiary of the company that owns the DAPL, fired three rounds from his rifle into the air, then fled into Cannonball River. He was captured by Bureau of Indian Affairs officers and turned over to the FBI.

    "They [the police] used extreme force and tear gas against people who were praying", Loren Bagola told [bismarcktribune.com][1] The Bismarck Tribune.

    [...]The charges against the protesters arrested Thursday include engaging in a riot, maintaining a public nuisance, and conspiracy to endanger others by fire and explosion. 260 other arrests have been made since mid-August, including of journalist Amy Goodman, who documented the use of attack dogs against protesters by private security companies hired by Dakota Access. Dozens of heavily-armed riot police with armored vehicles were also stationed around the courthouse where Goodman's hearing was held on October 17. District Judge John Grinsteiner dismissed the charges against Goodman.

    [1] NoScript strongly advised.

    Note that the only non-gov't show of force was by an agent provocateur. [google.com]

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2016, @11:24PM (#420703)

    Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR.org) reports [commondreams.org] via Common Dreams

    One place you can go to find reporting is The Intercept (10/25/16 [theintercept.com]), where journalist Jihan Hafiz filed a video report from North Dakota, where the Standing Rock Sioux and their allies continue their stand against the sacred site--trampling, water supply--threatening project.

    Hafiz reports that after a morning of prayer, Standing Rock activists

    were attacked by police forces who used pepper spray and beat protesters with batons... . Dozens of officers, backed by military trucks, police vans, machine guns and nonlethal weapons, violently approached the group without warning.

    As the demonstrators attempted to leave, the police began beating and detaining them. Several Native American women leading the march were targeted, dragged out of the crowd and arrested. One man was body-slammed to the ground, while another woman broke her ankle running from the police. The military and police trucks followed the protesters, as nearly a hundred officers corralled them into a circle. Among the arrested were journalists, including Hafiz; a pregnant 17-year-old; and a 78-year-old woman.

    Once jailed, Hafiz and others were refused phone calls and received no food or water for eight hours. Women were strip-searched, two women fainted from low blood sugar and another had her medication taken away.

    On her release, Hafiz was told, "Your camera is being held as evidence in a crime."

    That crime, of course, would be journalism [fair.org]. And it's hard to believe law enforcement would feel so cavalier about treating it that way if more reporters were actually committing it.

    Since the last time FAIR checked on how much coverage corporate media were giving the Dakota Access struggle (FAIR.org, 9/22/16 [fair.org]), ABC and NBC have ended their blackout, airing one story apiece on their national news shows: NBC's Today show (10/11/16) had 71 words about the arrest of actor Shailene Woodley at the site, and ABC's Good Morning America (10/23/16) ran 70 words on how "a protest over construction of an oil pipeline turned violent."

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @05:11AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @05:11AM (#420791)

    Oh noes! The police are inconsistent in their policing! Especially when different jurisdictions are involved!

    Nothing new here.

    The Bundy gang were a) apprehended b) arrested c) indicted d) had their day in court. The police in question managed to do it with a minimum of violence. Great, good job.

    The pipeline protesters included quite a few white people, including Jill Stein - and have persisted to the point that the authorities there decided to use a measured level of violence.

    Now one could make the argument that the police should not have done that, but to argue that somehow the Racist Federal Machinery went particularly easy on Bundy et al. is to completely ignore the realities at hand.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @03:12PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @03:12PM (#421268)

      The police in question managed to do it with a minimum of violence. Great, good job.

      Which situation is worse: A group of 100+ people battered and gassed (but all expected to recover), or the murder of one individual [thementalmilitia.net].

      I tend to think there is no correct answer to which is worse: they're BOTH evil when the protestors were correct in terms of law and morals.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @10:48PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 31 2016, @10:48PM (#421074)

    Can't waste an excuse to kiss up to the federal government. Wouldn't want the feds busting up(or stop being customers of/running interference for) your global pedo ring, huh? shove your bullshit religion and your precious federal government. Obviously, you didn't get the memo that you're not supposed to cover the Bundy story at all. Your pals, the scum in DC, have determined that there's no way the feds win the PR on this, so you're supposed to just let it go away. You're too stupid to even kiss up properly...we'll be sure to burn your churches to the ground when the SHTF, hopefully while you're in them.