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posted by martyb on Wednesday November 09 2016, @05:44AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the every-man-before-he-die-should-strive-to-learn-what-he-is-running-to-and-from-and-why dept.

Many media outlets referred to what happened as a "mass panic" or a "stampede." But such terms are not appropriate to the situation, according to John Drury, a social psychologist at the University of Sussex.

"People follow others when they perceive these others as relevant, so it is not mindless," Drury says. "The problems come when the others don't take the danger seriously enough. People more often die in emergencies through not evacuating quickly rather than through haste."

Stampeding is a primitive, instinctive behavior of herd animals, and panic implies a rashness or irrationality in response to a real or perceived danger, Drury writes on his academic blog. But crowds shouldn't be compared to unintentional, mindless mobs. Instead Drury refers to these events as progressive crowd collapses.

Shared identity in the crowd (eg. "Cubs fans"), exit design, crowd traffic control, and sight lines are all factors in stampedes. The researchers are modeling different mitigation strategies like precise position monitoring via GPS event bracelets.


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  • (Score: 3, Funny) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday November 09 2016, @05:48AM

    by cubancigar11 (330) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @05:48AM (#424355) Homepage Journal

    Talking about the elections, eh... ? :D

  • (Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:02AM

    by archfeld (4650) <treboreel@live.com> on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:02AM (#424359) Journal

    3,2,1 Queue the Diaspora

    --
    For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:06AM

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:06AM (#424361) Journal

      Gee, that was good timing [soylentnews.org].

      To everyone: I am working on the results story that will be posted when the election is called.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Sarasani on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:40AM

        by Sarasani (3283) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:40AM (#424371)

        when the election is called

        Hold on, there's an election going on?

    • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:46AM

      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:46AM (#424424) Homepage

      3,2,1 Queue

      Ah, British thinking. A queue will stop stampedes from forming.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
      • (Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:19PM

        by archfeld (4650) <treboreel@live.com> on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:19PM (#424827) Journal

        Yeah I've always thought that even when doing something foolish the British did it with panache.

        --
        For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
        • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Wednesday November 09 2016, @10:10PM

          by wonkey_monkey (279) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @10:10PM (#424878) Homepage

          To misquote Eddie Izzard, the first thing an angry mob will say when they finally revolt and storm parliament will be "Look, we'll pay for the damage..."

          --
          systemd is Roko's Basilisk
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Whoever on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:22AM

    by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:22AM (#424366) Journal

    "... People more often die in emergencies through not evacuating quickly rather than through haste."

    I have seen this first hand. A small fire broke out in the 10-storey building in which I was working. We all got into the stairwell and filed out, but the bottleneck was the doors at the building exit. No one thought to open the second door.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by ledow on Wednesday November 09 2016, @05:02PM

      by ledow (5567) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @05:02PM (#424740) Homepage

      I have to say, I work in schools, so we have regular (scheduled or unscheduled) fire drills and alarms.

      It's often a case of more haste, less speed. Sure, I'm sure if the sheer velocity is the primary factor (roof is collapsing in your direction, etc.) then, yes, you want to run.

      Otherwise let everyone else run, assess the hazard, while retreating calmly.

      You gain perspective, see things others don't, and question the sense of things.

      In most fire evacuations, I'm often the first out, even. Not because I run, I deliberately won't with children around, it scares them. But because I don't mess about and go for the exit, the clear route, the way out, and ignore other things.

      When I was once in charge of a class of kids and the alarm went off, they were to the door, counted, out the door, counted, through another classroom (which was our exit), counted, out onto the fields, counted. BEFORE THE CLASS WE'D WALKED THROUGH HAD EVEN STOOD UP. Too much faffing and other considerations, but at the same time not enough thought. Get the kids out. Nothing else matters. Why are you collecting things? Why are you not at the door with the kids feeding them towards the exits immediately? Count as you go, because you have perspective if there are all in one direction from you. Check for hazards. Proceed.

      In one school I worked, the head liked to demonstrate real reactions. He once got a small child to request to go to the toilet, instructed them to hide in there (they were supervised, so they wouldn't be in danger if something DID happen), and then set off the alarm and walked outside with the rest of the staff. NOBODY NOTICED they were missing. Because it wasn't ordinary procedure for the teachers not to know about drills, so they just forgot about the child who'd gone to the toilet. And the registers were even MARKED as that child being there in the line.

      In another instance, he put up fake flames on a corridor. It baffled EVERYONE. You can't use that exit that you would normally. Now what? Some people even dithered and asked questions and the backtracking caused chaos. For what is a quite likely scenario (a fire on your escape route itself). Now imagine the same teacher that was blocking the route wasn't there to represent a fake fire but because there was a gunman that way. How do you communicate that, move them back, change plans, avoid questions?

      Breathe. Calm. Think. You're likely to have MINUTES in a fire before it gets out of control if an alarm is going off. Even if you don't, that pause will present new opportunities that might be better for you. Like playing a game and there's a scare-scenario. Of course you just run from the huge influx of aliens. Right into the trap that the level designer put there. After playing games for a while, your mind goes... "Ah... hold on a sec. I know what to do." before you even start.

      I can't tell you how many times, when routing cables and things, I've been in the depths of a school and said "But if you punch through here, isn't that the room we just came from?" and people have no idea. I've routed cables through doorways that people had forgotten about. The same thing happens, no matter how familiar you are with a site. "But, doesn't this door lead outside and you can walk AROUND the site rather than through it?", etc.

      The most dangerous thing in a panic, if you imagine things like a plane on fire on the stand, is OTHER PEOPLE and their reactions. You will get trampled, crushed, pushed out of the way, stampeded, ignored, fought, etc. I like to steer clear of them when something happens, or at least bring up the rear calmly rather than fight with them to be first.

      I've never been in a serious emergency, but we practice lockdown drills and fire drills all the time and I've been in enough "minor" unscheduled incidents (that we didn't know weren't major ones) to know that I'll consider my own way, as I walk calmly to the exit. That moment of pause might well put sense into my head that wouldn't occur if I was just being jostled out of a cramped exit.

    • (Score: 2) by AnonymousCowardNoMore on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:32PM

      by AnonymousCowardNoMore (5416) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:32PM (#424787)

      Sounds like selfish action to me. If I'm already at the door and it's faster to go through the one open door than open the remaining door, I could gain a negligible advantage* by leaving everyone behind me to their own devices. (* Little can still affect you by the time you're at the door. I'm talking extreme self-centred reasoning just-in-case. FYGM in action.)

      • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:49PM

        by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @06:49PM (#424795) Journal

        Sounds like selfish action to me. If I'm already at the door and it's faster to go through the one open door than open the remaining door, I could gain a negligible advantage* by leaving everyone behind me to their own devices

        It wasn't. It would have been quicker for any individual to break out of line and open the second door. If anything other than people being too relaxed about the evauation, it was people assuming that the other door was locked and not challenging that assumption.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 10 2016, @01:45AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 10 2016, @01:45AM (#424948)

          Something similar I have done before - car is broken down and causing a blockage on a highway. I have waited in the queue, got to the break down and then driven straight past. I should stop and push the car to the shoulder but I never do. Why not?

          1. I am worried that the person in the car will be grumpy and have a go
          2. I am worried that other people around me will be grumpy and have a go
          3. I dont feel confident enough to safely stop, blocking the traffic, and attempt to move the car (what if I am not strong enough? people will think I am an idiot etc)
          4. I get no benefit from moving the stranded car (beyond a warm fuzzy feeling if it all works out okay).

          So I leave the car broken down blocking a lane and drive on, like the other thousands of cars on the highway.

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by aristarchus on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:02AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:02AM (#424374) Journal

    SoylentNews editors run for the exits whenever an article about Peter Theil is posted, because, you know, alt-right, gay, and Trump supporter who is lawsuit happy.

    --
    #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
  • (Score: 2) by jelizondo on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:31AM

    by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:31AM (#424377) Journal

    Does it include running north for the Canadian border?

    How about south towards the wall, eh, Mexican border?

    May God forgive Wasserman and Brazile for tilting the primary towards HRC because I WON'T forgive them!

    And don't tell me the third party candidates screwed HRC, no sir, she was a weak candidate who was forced upon us. Those who made the decision will now have ample time to regret it.

    N.B. At this hour, Trump has been elected POTUS

    BEEERNIIEEE!!!!!

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:57AM

      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @07:57AM (#424380) Journal

      Bernie would have crushed Trump in the general, because he's not a despicable criminal like Hillary. But of course that's speculation as we'll never know now. But I do hope that the fallout at the DNC lasts for generations.

      I dropped my Democratic party registration because of the cheating at the DNC. Have the chairman of the DNC rig the primary for Hillary, and then when she's found out, resign & go formally join her campaign? A slap in the face to the Democratic rank-and-file. And because one twist of the knife is never enough for Hillary, she doubles down by somehow getting another of her cronies, Donna Brazile, to step in as chairman of the DNC.

      And now I'm off to DailyKos for a moment to savor the wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of cloth...

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jelizondo on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:42AM

        by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @08:42AM (#424420) Journal

        Bro, have a beer (I had many) tonight or whatever time it is wherever you are.

        Tomorrow, tomorrow we fight again but tonight let's cry over stupidity. As the German poet put it: "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."

        Cheers

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 09 2016, @09:08AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @09:08AM (#424438) Journal
        It is remarkable what a poor choice Clinton was. Not only did she lose to one of the worst run, successful campaigns, but the Republicans secured a majority in both branches of Congress.

        I wonder if the Clintons have any political capital left after this? Normally, ex-presidents retain a little bit of influence. Supposedly even Carter has a faction. This is such a mess for the Democrats that I wouldn't be surprised if that's it for the Clintons.

        Well, the good news for the Democrats is that they don't have anyone else like Clinton who would suck the oxygen out of the room and keep viable candidates from running. So when the 2020 nomination comes around, it'll be wide open.

        Another thing to look for in the coming years. Do either party try to modify their primaries or nomination process to prevent the sort of rebellion that happened with Sanders and Trump? The Democrats already have "front-loading" (here, that the nominee tends to get out in front early on) and superdelegates.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 09 2016, @10:14AM

          by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @10:14AM (#424490) Journal

          That's a really good question, but I think if the DNC and RNC try to amend their rules to lock out insurgents like Trump, they will only be signing their own death warrants. For me, the overriding message from Trump's victory is that they should not expect to continue to achieve victory for the elites at the expense of regular people. Somehow, tonight, against all odds, the American people evaded the total blockade of the Establishment and the media. That's huge. I truly hope that the backlash against the rigging that the DNC and RNC and media did wipes them from the public scene in America. They deserve the death that comes from irrelevance, which is born of their contempt for the real lives of real Americans.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 10 2016, @09:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 10 2016, @09:23AM (#425053)

            For me, the overriding message from Trump's victory is that they should not expect to continue to achieve victory for the elites at the expense of regular people. Somehow, tonight, against all odds, the American people evaded the total blockade of the Establishment and the media.

            You poor, poor naive folks! Trump is from the ranks of elite as much as Clinton is. You have just witnessed a rearrangement in pecking order at the top, nothing more. Bernie Sanders perhaps was your only exit, but that hazard was stomped out, timely and vigorously.

    • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Wednesday November 09 2016, @01:46PM

      by fritsd (4586) on Wednesday November 09 2016, @01:46PM (#424592) Journal

      The Canadian immigration website crashed because of overload:

      Canada's immigration website crashes as Trump's election lead grows [theguardian.com]

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 09 2016, @12:18PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 09 2016, @12:18PM (#424557) Journal

    C'mon, guys. You can't un-publish a story about the US election results after 95 comments have already been registered. Yes, it's political, but yes, it's 'stuff that matters.'

    I get that Trump is not popular in certain quarters. But you cannot argue that his election is not significant. Un-publishing a story that has already been discussed a lot is a failure on the part of SN.

    Another thing to consider is that even if the editors block stories that are officially about the election, the discussion will proceed in stories that have nothing to do with the election anyway. So the editorial decision blocks no discussion, and only makes the editors look bad.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.