While the UK and much of the world struggles with overcrowded prisons, the Netherlands has the opposite problem. It is actually short of people to lock up. In the past few years 19 prisons have closed down and more are slated for closure next year. How has this happened - and why do some people think it's a problem?
...
"In the Dutch service we look at the individual," says Van der Spoel."If somebody has a drug problem we treat their addiction, if they are aggressive we provide anger management, if they have got money problems we give them debt counselling. So we try to remove whatever it was that caused the crime. The inmate himself or herself must be willing to change but our method has been very effective. Over the last 10 years, our work has improved more and more."
He adds that some persistent offenders - known in the trade as "revolving-door criminals" - are eventually given two-year sentences and tailor-made rehabilitation programmes. Fewer than 10% then return to prison after their release. In England and Wales, and in the United States, roughly half of those serving short sentences reoffend within two years, and the figure is often higher for young adults.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Unixnut on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:06AM
I mean, if their rehabilitation is so good that they are closing prisoners down. Why not offer to lease out the prisons to neighbouring countries which have a bigger prison problem? Perhaps even offer the same rehabilitation as a service?
I can't see how rehabilitating other prisoners from Europe would be a bad thing, after all criminals can cross the borders as it is, so reducing your own criminals will just result in more coming for easy pickings.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by krishnoid on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:15AM
Why not offer to lease out the prisons to neighbouring countries
Why limit it to neighboring countries [washingtonpost.com]?
Perhaps even offer the same rehabilitation as a service?
Excellent idea -- they could offer "rehabilitation outsourcing" as a wider, perhaps even universal service.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:39AM
That is an excellent idea. And those recidivism rates are incredible. Hell, they'd be incredible if they were twice as high.
I didn't read the entire article, only skimmed it, but if those numbers are correct this needs to be done everywhere.
Oh, wait a minute, uh, I'm American, and Trump, the 'law and order' candidate, just won....
Fuckin' Liars! Socialism is a failed system run by LIBERALS! They need to lock up all those damned offenders. They can't has guns! They're SOCIALISTS! You know NAZIS! And COMMUNISTS! They gots a weak military cuz it's tiny like the minds of SOCIALISTS! And LIBERALS.
Hmm, that's way too light, and dammit, I just have such a hard time with screwing up my spelling. Grammars too good. Oh shit, I used punctuation as well. Forgot to leave the caps lock on....Damn, forgot to mention god, I mean GOD, and the second amendment shit, I'll never be a convincing conservative....is my red Corvette a convincing conservative car?
I'll have to work on it.
I'll do better, I promise.
Or better yet, deport me there! Yes! Deport me to anywhere in the Netherlands! I have a warm coat! Please save me!
Sorry, couldn't resist...(;
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 4, Informative) by butthurt on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:21AM
Across the sea, shares of CoreCivic Inc., formerly Corrections Corp. of America, which operates private prisons, were the "best performer on the NYSE" on Wednesday.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-strange-bedfellows-nyse-181544135.html [yahoo.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by r1348 on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:21AM
Because there are 42 languages with more than one million speakers in Europe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @08:19PM
It's a shame that no one in Holland has thought to learn anything besides Dutch ... and the speakers of those other 42 languages only speak theirs as well. /s
(Score: 3, Informative) by t-3 on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:25AM
According to the article, they rent one of their prisons to Norway.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:28AM
Well - the thing is, the US and UK view prisons as an income. In the US especially, we have contracted with prisons to keep their beds filled. We lock people up for minor offenses - a month first time, six months next time, a year of prison next time around, then five years. Most of these clowns who get locked up were just young idiots who did something stupid. Getting caught with a joint was often the first "offense". The young jackass never should have been locked up - ticket the little jerk, and let him come to court to talk to the judge. "Young man, marijuana is illegal, and you've got to pay for having marijuana in your possession. You'll do 160 hours community service, and take a course in drug abuse. You'll be fined $500, but I'll suspend that portion of your sentence if you stay out of trouble."
That is the sort of sentence most first time offenders need - even second and third timers. When they've worn out the easy, friendly approach, then they can go into a county facility. Pubilc intoxication? Something like that should NEVER become a state prison sentence. It's a county problem caused by a county resident, keep it in the county.
The LAST thing we want to do is to put these punks into a prison, where real criminals train them to be criminals. Those kids need to be out in the community, working, and earning their food, shelter, clothing, etc.
Our whole problem is, prison for profit. REAL criminals can't be housed in prison for proper prison terms, because the prisons are filled with cash-flow convicts.
We simply do it all wrong. Our supposed "Land of the Free" imprisons more people than most of the rest of the earth's governments - combined. The US and UK are pretty screwed up in that way.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:02AM
even easier, give someone a civil fine. If they can't pay it in 10 days, then give them a $2000 "administration and late" fee. Whoa... can't pay that in 15? Oh, we're sorry, you're already late anyways! Off to jail.
oh, wait. There are areas in the US already doing this.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:27AM
You are describing a debtor's prison system. Again, prison for profit. We need to drop the whole idea of anyone profiting from your screw ups. The "bad boys" need to pay back what they owe, but they don't go deeper and deeper into hell for failure to pay a fine, or whatever. At some point, most of them just give up, and stop even trying to become a contributing member of society. We need to learn some lessons from the European systems.
On the other hand, we don't punish the real criminals harshly enough. So - we have some screwup who insists on digging himself deeper and deeper into the dungeon. We've coddled him a little at the beginning, we gotten stricter in stages, and he insists on hurting everyone around him - financially, physically, sexually, psychologically he hurts everyone he knows.
THAT sumbitch needs a life without parole sentence, that means exactly what it says. Rapists, for example. We've got a tangled web of definitions of rape, but just ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of a brutal rape that leaves the victim dead, or suffering for life, gets the death sentence. Some things don't merit any kind of coddling.
Stop prison for profit, and get down to business punishing those who commit heinous crimes.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pslytely Psycho on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:41PM
Sometimes the potential penalties for marijuana possession while possessing a legal firearm but not using it, or have it involved in any way other than legally possessing it, have been worse than USING AN ATOMIC WEAPON!
From: Federal Mandatory Minimums List (link is to a PDF) http://famm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Chart-All-Fed-MMs-NW.pdf [famm.org]
42 USC § 2272(b);
§ 2M6.1
Using, attempting to use, or threatening while possessing, an atomic weapon
2004
30 years
1. Christopher Williams
A Montana medical marijuana provider is facing 82 to 85 years behind bars, due to mandatory minimum laws linked to some of his charges. Convicted of crimes like manufacturing marijuana, intent to distribute and possession of a firearm during a drug trafficking offense, Christopher Williams appeared to be in the for the worst. But in a rare move this September, U.S. Attorney Michael Cotter offered to drop four of Williams’ charges and bring his sentencing down to “as little as 10 years,” so long as Williams waived his right to appeal.
(Williams refused the offer on moral grounds. He ended up with 5 years. They dropped the charges for possessing a legal weapon in an open-carry state.)
2. Will Foster
US Army veteran and business-owner Will Foster was suffering from widespread rheumatoid arthritis when he started growing marijuana. In 1997, Oklahoma police discovered his marijuana garden and just $28 cash after a “confidential informant” helped them procure a “John Doe” search warrant for methamphetamine. His sentence was reduced to 20 years (His original sentence, brace yourself...was 93 years for 50 plants!) and he was paroled to California in 2001. The Oklahoma Department of Corrections was unhappy when Foster completed parole, and attempted to extradite him back to Oklahoma — a fight Foster won.
But in 2008, Foster’s marijuana grow, legal by California standards, was raided. Foster sat in a California jail for a year before local authorities dropped the charges. Unfortunately for Foster, Oklahoma officials showed up at the Calif. jail, shackled Foster and drove him back to Oklahoma, where he remained until he was released in late November 2009. (Cops had a real hard-on for this guy. He ended up in jail for 12 years!)
3. Jonathan Magbie
Jonathan Magbie’s story is a stunning example of the cruelty that can accompany an arrest for medical marijuana. Paralyzed from the neck down after being hit by a drunk driver at the age of four, Magpie was charged with marijuana possession in 2004 after cops found a joint and a (legal) loaded gun in a vehicle (not Jonathan's gun however, he's quadriplegic) in which he was the passenger. Though he had never been convicted of a criminal offense and required medical assistance 20 hours a day, he was given a 10-day sentence in a DC jail. With no ventilator to sustain his breathing, he died in jail four days later. (Death sentence for a fucking JOINT!)
Additions in parenthesis are mine.
I validated each example with several sources, just google name and marijuana convictions, don't want to deal with a bunch of links.
Yep, that's definitely justice.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Saturday November 12 2016, @12:49PM
I think I got the total on Will fosters total incarceration wrong, I couldn't find an exact total however I think it was only about 8 total, forgot about the parole, it's 5a.m. and I'm stoned.
Damn, I was trying to be accurate...good ganja....
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @04:30AM
160 hours? I'd tell the judge to send me to jail. Jail is nice. You get a bed, three meals a day, and all the books you can read. If you like to play spades, chess, rummy, work out or rap you'll have plenty to do.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @04:50AM
also plenty to do if you like the cock
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:30AM
But, it's not your option. It's SOCIETY'S option. No, we don't WANT your lazy ass in a prison cell, watching television all day. You are going down to the park this week, and put in 40 hours of hard manual labor, making the park pretty for our law-abiding citizens to enjoy. Next week, you'll be out picking up litter along the highway for another 40 hours. Following week, you're going to help the highway maintenance crew, shoveling macadam into pot holes. Your last week, we'll send you back to the park to chop more briars and weeds out of the meadows.
You want to sit in a comfy cell? You can kiss my ass, and the asses of all taxpayers.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 2, Informative) by kc on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:18PM
This idea has already been tried. It is literally slavery as punishment for a crime. And it is still for-profit and therefore it would be abused to provide cheap labor for either public property or for private companies.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 13 2016, @12:37AM
First - define "slavery". No, this is NOT slavery. This is more like bond servitude. Bond servitude and slavery are remotely related, for sure, in that a person is deprived of some freedoms in either case. But, a bond servant has a lot more freedoms than either a slave, OR a person in prison. A bond servant gets to go home at night, see his family, go to a movie, enjoy social and/or sexual intercourse - the list goes on.
Bond servitude is vastly preferable to our current prison system. Vastly.
And, the whole pupose of this exercise, is to ensure that people learn to WANT TO WORK, and WANT TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE!!
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2016, @10:24AM
And how do you enforce that? Send me to jail if I don't comply?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 14 2016, @02:50PM
First - you would go to jail, as you ask, and not to a for-profit prison.
Second - you would NOT like any jail that I was in charge of. See, no work, no eat. You'll scrub the jail house from top to bottom, front to bad, and side to side, wax the floors, and wash the windows BEFORE breakfast is served. People who have lived in barracks know what I mean.
When breakfast is served, you'll think of Sheriff Joe in Arizona. A slice of cold balogna, two slices of bread, and a glass of water.
After breakfast, you will be permitted to go outside, cut the grass, trim the hedges, and whatever other work might be assigned.
Again, lunch won't be served until the assigned tasks are finished.
Lunch will consist of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and a glass of water. But, you can drink all the water you want.
After lunch more chores. We're going to keep you busy, boy. No, you don't really HAVE TO WORK. You can refuse. And, we will refuse you dinner as well.
It's your choice. We don't have to feed the deadweight of society. Pull your weight, and we'll feed you. Don't pull your weight, and we'll allow you to lie in bed, comfortably, as you starve yourself to death.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 14 2016, @11:31PM
Wow, that's BETTER food than jail! Breakfast is usually oatmeal, frozen apples, and water + "milk", lunch is really shitty fake bologna/salami/ham depending on the day + horrible koolaid mix (seriously the only ingredients are strange chemicals and food coloring, and it will stain concrete, I always save them and trade or gamble them), dinner is soy-based fake food with more koolaid. Peanut butter and jelly comes once a week, and I would save the peanut butter packs and trade other stuff for them because it's the most filling and nutritious food available. Second, haha, "cruel and unusual punishment". Coerced labor and starvation is definitely cruel. The way jail already works is that trustees (those prisoners who choose to work, or rather, don't refuse when they are assigned to work), have special priveleges (reduced time, some of them get paid or get discounts on commisary, some of them get access to outside and smuggle contraband) and there are WAITING lists, because there's not enough work to go around. If you wanted to put this into action you'd have to dramatically reduce the number of inmates or the increase the number of jails.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 15 2016, @01:31AM
Don't worry, the food offered will be marginally nutritious. I've heard horror stories about some kinda fake meatloaf crap - supposed to have all the vitamins and minerals, but even a starving man thinks twice about eating it. The thing is, you won't GET food if you won't work.
There will be work to do, I promise, for everyone. The floor may be gleaming, but you can always scrub it again. Think "boot camp". Pointless labor to fill the time. White glove inspections at any time. Even the bars on the cells will gleam. Everyone will be a trustee in my jail, because everyone will work. Police cars need to be washed, maybe two or three times a day.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:28AM
Getting caught with a joint was often the first "offense". The young jackass never should have been locked up - ticket the little jerk, and let him come to court to talk to the judge. "Young man, marijuana is illegal, and you've got to pay for having marijuana in your possession. You'll do 160 hours community service, and take a course in drug abuse. You'll be fined $500, but I'll suspend that portion of your sentence if you stay out of trouble."
"Young man, you're sentenced to 160 hours community service for wasting police and court time making us prosecute you for something as insignificant as owning a bit of weed. Next time for fscks sake don't get caught so we can focus on catching actual criminals".
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:32AM
LOL - you've changed the focus a little bit, but we're on the same page. Laws are being passed all around this country, decriminalizing marijuana. I love that. It never made sense to pay cops to chase stupid kids who just want to "feel good". Stupid, stupid, stupid.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:59AM
"Well - the thing is, the US and UK view prisons as an income."
The very root of the problem.
From the 2014 Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) annual report:
The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by our criminal laws. For instance, any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them ... Legislation has been proposed in numerous jurisdictions that could lower minimum sentences for some non-violent crimes and make more inmates eligible for early release based on good behavior.
Although, the message is part of a larger report basically informing shareholders of the risk of outside events that may impact profitability, it shows that legalization of marijuana and lowering sentencing for minor offenses is a concern to them. It's easier just to put them in a cell and make them work as basically, a slave labor force. I didn't realize how much stuff is made by prisoners. I found out researching a joke I was going to make on this article about who would make our license plates, and found out that not only are a lot of plates made in prisons, but every thing from lingerie to canoes. If we can get the money out of the system, then rehabilitation becomes a public interest.
Then there's a chance for improvement.
I'm rambling, it's 04:00 and I have a good buzz on...
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 13 2016, @05:25AM
Community service is generally not free; there is a fee or per-hour charge, and it can be fairly stiff, several hundred dollars if not more.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 13 2016, @07:35PM
It all depends on where you are, how it actually works in reality. A judge might argue that you owe $500 and that you can work it off at fifty dollars per day - and award you ten days of community service. What it all boils down to is, you have performed 80 hours of labor, and you have recieved no cash to put in your pocket. Lawyers are good at using words to imply things that aren't true. The taxman will argue that in exchange for your 80 hours, you were "paid" $500, and he wants his cut, so you're doubly screwed.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 13 2016, @08:37PM
Yeah, it's highly variable. In Los Angeles County, it costs you something like $5 for each hour of "community service" plus a service fee and as a punishment is generally preferred by the courts to straight-up fines, because it brings in more money.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Saturday November 12 2016, @03:35PM
That would never work because over here our tabloid newspapers (Sun, Mail, Express etc.) tell us that we need to be TOUGH on crime, TOUGH on the causes of crime and TOUGH on criminals. Prison needs to be PUNISHMENT!!!!!!!! not a holiday camp.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:00AM
This was a story in the media so there is propaganda involved. They weasel around coming out and admitting a big driver in falling crime rates is a police dept too overstressed to even take a report in many cases. And I'm sure they are getting their share of Mad Merkel's new 'Europeans' who will be helping to repopulate those prisons soon enough. But if they can really lower crime through different approaches to the criminal justice and penal systems, then lets see if the results in a few more years hold up and then go learn from them. That is how science works, run the experiment and see what happens. Don't think anyone thinks the current U.S. criminal justice system is exactly a model to duplicate.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by moondoctor on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:08AM
>This was a story in the media so there is propaganda involved
Goddamn this election fucked some people up...
Sad to think that the idea of this just being plain old fashioned journalism (reporting the truth to the best of your ability) is mind blowing. Pro-tip: If you doubt a story in the 'media' go to reliable news outlets on both sides of the argument and split the difference, and if you're lucky you'll be close to the truth. Sometime the BBC is a bit 'Biased Broadcasting Corporation' but because their funding model is completely different to anything else in the US or UK you get much more unfiltered and honest stuff on the whole. Especially the World Service, it's pretty reliable. But... never take anything from one source, or one side, or you'll make a fool of yourself.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
(Score: 1, Troll) by jmorris on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:04PM
Goddamn this election fucked some people up...
Talk about flipping the arrow of causality..... The level of trust in the mass media has been declining toward the basement with Congresscritters for decades. We do not trust them because even most morons can see they aren't trustworthy. They are not journalists. Long ago the press were more biased but they were honest so it worked; every major city had at least two newspapers. You could read both and have a fair idea of what was going on. Now we have one media Narrative and it is painfully obvious that it is divorced from reality. I don't know if the Sham Wow guy has more public trust than the New York Times but the fact the question isn't laughable reveals the problem. And that was before the recent WikiLeaks dumps confirmed most suspicion as not nearly cynical enough to match reality.
The inability of the media to perform their function allowed the ruling class to become equally divorced from reality and not only not know of the concerns of the people they rule, the had adopted the insane idea that it was somehow improper to even WANT to know what "stupid people in Jesus Land care about."
This election was a reaction. Which the media entirely failed to see or report. Even when it happened the Narrative was "Everyone is shocked, amazed and terrified." Really? Half the country voted for it, guess we aren't part of "everyone" It was "How could Nixon win, I don't know anyone who voted for him!" all over again. Decades go by and they learn nothing.
Obama was a reaction (a dumb one) against Bush. But it least it shook up the system... briefly; but cast out stupid, corrupt people and replaced them with stupid, corrupt and outright evil ones.
The Tea Party was a reaction against that. Because we didn't want to become a a failed Socialist hellhole, we wanted America back. We were all called racists and told to STFU. We were declared dangerous and violent as we peacefully assembled and left the area cleaner than we found it.
So now Trump and a Burn It Down attitude. If this also fails to eliminate the problem the next attempt will probably be violent. Of course the forces of tolerance and inclusion are right now rioting, looting and pillaging. That is of course deemed 'legitimate expression'.
(Score: 1) by moondoctor on Sunday November 13 2016, @03:18AM
> The level of trust in the mass media has been declining toward the basement with Congresscritters
WTF does that even mean. Stop with the nonsense and speak fucking English, motherfucker. This is not a game. If you can't be honest with yourself, how can I expect to have dialogue with you?
> They are not journalists
The BBC world service aren't journalists? Fuck your insipid wilful ignorance. You compare them to the New York Times? Seriously? You obviously are very out of touch with how 'media' works.
Go listen to Lise Doucet and 'from our own correspondent' with an open mind and you will be amazed at what you hear.
(Did I say open mind? silly me... I guess I'm relatively alone in looking at both sides. Fox news does have valid contributions, and the NYT is fucked if you are to ask)
Troll or retard, hard to say...
(Score: 1) by moondoctor on Sunday November 13 2016, @03:42AM
First and foremost: If you are a racist, then yeah, Shut The Fuck Up. Hate to break it to you, but If you align with Trump's movement then you are a racist by association. If that doesn't make sense to you, god help us all.
>rioting, looting and pillaging. That is of course deemed 'legitimate expression'.
On what planet? Stop making shit up. No rational person thinks those things are legitimate expression. They are crimes. If you can't see that pushing people beyond breaking point makes awful things happen, then I'm at a loss to help you understand. (Start here: people pushed past the brink will commit crimes, psych 101)
I'm going to pretend you want to see more than the talking points you are regurgitating.
Worth a thought:
"Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture. More recently, the same newspaper made a telling choice between two statements made by Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov following a police crackdown on protesters in Moscow: “The police acted mildly—I would have liked them to act more harshly” rather than those protesters’ “liver should have been spread all over the pavement.” Perhaps the journalists could not believe their ears. But they should—both in the Russian case, and in the American one. For all the admiration Trump has expressed for Putin, the two men are very different; if anything, there is even more reason to listen to everything Trump has said. He has no political establishment into which to fold himself following the campaign, and therefore no reason to shed his campaign rhetoric. On the contrary: it is now the establishment that is rushing to accommodate him—from the president, who met with him at the White House on Thursday, to the leaders of the Republican Party, who are discarding their long-held scruples to embrace his radical positions. "
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:12AM
I doubt it's "stress" and believe it's political pressure where the officers are actually being punished for putting their lives at risk to apprehend immigrants savage beyond their imagination. The objective is to induce learned helplessness into the population as a means of removing all power the population has to work together to achieve its best interests against those who seek to exploit and control them. The European Muslims, like the American Blacks, are spun as rebels fighting for freedom and justice but in reality are merely the attack-dogs of the elite.
This is exactly what is going on in America now, the beginnings of a color revolution with the same structure (albeit different demographics) as in Ukraine, Syria, and some Eastern European countries around the time of the Yugoslav wars.
You get a few charismatic people in the know recruiting useful idiots going along with the tide of righteousness, indoctrinate them into protocols (What do do if attacked by police. What to do if questioned by media. What to do if...) which makes them predictable enough so that their movements and intentions can be determined and controlled. Take them in to neighboring cities and counties by the busload on George Soros' dime. Roll into them the angry feral Blacks and disgruntled Muslims, have the ATF or the CIA run some unserialized street guns to them, have one of their own (or a hired gun from Dubai-based Frontier-Services group, aka Blackwater, aka Xe, aka Academi) pick off one of the "peaceful" protesters and have the interest-controlled media circle-jerk the whole thing in an attempt to get more and more to rise up to whatever the controller's whims are.
Yeah, no. Good luck with that. It might be ugly, but the true patriots will win.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @03:23AM
I doubt it's "stress" and believe it's political pressure where the officers are actually being punished for putting their lives at risk to apprehend immigrants savage beyond their imagination.
I don't understand the narrative here. Say these poor cops can't go after the savage immigrants; what happened to all the Dutch criminals they built those prisons for in the first place? Why can't they arrest them?
Did these scary immigrants put all the thieves out of work by stealing the same things for less than minimum wage? (I thought that was the America vs. Wetbacks narrative, not Europe vs. Ragheads...) What is the native criminal class doing now, instead of crime? Just starving to death, but not stealing for food?
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @03:35AM
You're using a misdirection. Go arrest Islamic immigrants with a criminal record or who have demonstrated criminal behavior and make that public. Make public the arrest record. What, you can't? Well, Merkel has you by the balls, then. Your proposition cannot happen because it will be stopped in the intermediate stages by those who have more power than you do. And that's the nut of this problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @08:29PM
Well, Merkel has you by the balls, then.
Merkel? What the fuck does Merkel have to do with Holland? I realize your racism knows no bounds but it should at least recognize the borders between counties you know little or nothing about.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:13PM
Merkel has everything to do with this, for she is the de-facto public face of the rulers of Europe, and the one who says that all European countries must accept immigrant savages.
Yeah, I am well aware that she is of Germany, but if you knew anything about Europe then you would have understood why I wrote that and not have to make me explain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @12:48AM
I know plenty about Europe. I just disagree with your "Everything is on Merkel" myopic viewpoint. I guess you just have an affinity for certain portions of German history that share your xenophobic views and despise Merkel for not seeing things your way.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:35AM
Right.
You're not the only one who can spin a story, jmorris. Look at this:
<flame>
- The USA wanted to attack Iraq
- George W. Bush convinces his poodle, the UK's Tony B. Liar, to come along and form a "coalition of the willing", so it's not just the USA to blame (pity that George Michael videoclip "shoot the dog" has been removed from Youtube for some reason)
- Germany and France are scolded in the press for being too cowardly to join in the fun
- Mesopotamia is completely destabilized, the power hierarchy is scattered and the generals are suddenly all unemployed and looking for new "challenges"
- Out of the chaos Daesh emerges
- Daesh turns out to be a very effective tyranny, and grows and spreads
- Literally millions of people flee Syria and Iraq; a bit more than 1 million make it to Europe (many more in Turkey and Jordan)
- When too many of them are stuck in Budapest, Merkel understands that a radical ad-hoc solution is needed
- Merkel announces that they can all come to Germany, where they'll be put in camps, processed, and sent back if necessary, all at the cost of the German taxpayer. It is an inferior solution, politically dangerous, but better than the default option: "let them all die on the streets of Hungary, or maybe Jobbik [wikipedia.org]'s "second amendment people" will think of something".
SO WHAT DO THE RIGHT-WING PRESS REPORT AFTER ALL OF THIS?
"IT'S ALL MERKEL'S FAULT"
</flame>
And you, jmorris, you believe that.
(Score: 2) by Username on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:32AM
We (the united states) should just offer prisoners a chance to leave the US for the Netherlands as refugees. Problem solved on both sides.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:37AM
No, we the United States should ship all of our refugees and illegal aliens, including Mexicans, to the Nederlands. Win-Win. America is made great again and Europe intensifies their barreling trajectory towards their multicultural paradise.
By the way, I really missed participating in the "Trump Won" discussion, but word on the street is that you all behaved yourselves. All of us cannot, after all, be on the winning side of history.
(Score: 1) by moondoctor on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:58AM
Dear Sir/Madam,
Your mastery of the inflammatory/ambiguously sarcastic troll is beauty to behold. My hat is off to you.
More to the point: yeah better to have people from all viewpoints talking, the echo chamber does nobody any good. Nothing will get better til the screaming stops, and we all agree something needs doing. To those that think Trump will sort it out, or do *anything* he claimed - time will tell.
Now, back to the rocket powered undersea cable discussion...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Username on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:11AM
Nah, I cannot agree with shipping all refugees and aliens, we need to keep the intelligent, hard working, non islamic ones. That why it’s best to start off with prisoners. Very doubtful someone with a life sentence can benefits our society.
Just need to give them a sappy tune like, "I’m scared Trumps going to execute me because I’m " & ProtectedClass & "."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:23AM
You have a point. Actually, we could do goodwill swaps of prisoners with European countries, kinda like how Americans do the "sister cities" thing with other cities worldwide.
We could give Norway Mumia Abu-Jamal [wikipedia.org] in exchange for Anders Brevik - a classic Win-Win situation. Mumia gets great medical care and gets to play X-box and Playstation (while living in a cell more luxurious than my own studio apartment) and we get to pardon Brevik and give him a tickertape parade as a hero who brilliantly foreshadowed the controlled destruction of Europe through unfettered Islamic immigration.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:11AM
This is a work of art, Eth :) I don't know whether you believe half the shit that spews from your front-mounted diarrhea launcher, and I don't care; there is artistry here. Granted it's basically fecal fingerpainting, but you do it so well, like those street artists who make space scenes using spraypaint.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Username on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:51AM
IDK about moderate rebel Breivik, but I could see doing it for Assange.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:43AM
This is your best trolling ever!
I haven't seen such a cruel post since Coldfjord on Slashdot!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @08:12AM
I remember when Fidel shipped boatloads of criminals to the US of A, boy was that ever good for a laugh.
(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Monday November 14 2016, @12:16AM
Many of them were political prisoners and have turned out just fine. I'm related to at least one.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @01:41AM
Import more muslims, the prisons will soon fill up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:28PM
Flamebait, but true. Largest prison demographic in the UK - muslim.
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Saturday November 12 2016, @02:53AM
Tear them down so the next administration doesn't use them.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:55AM
The cultural environment is massively different between, say, Utrecht and the south side of Chicago. Also, the character of the people as well.
I'm happy it's working for the dutch. Good for them. But trying to extrapolate existing results in a (surprisingly) disciplined culture in a small country with a (surprisingly) uniform population (no matter what some of them say - it's nowhere near as diverse by percentages as the US, although other countries are yet more diverse than the US, such as South Africa) to other environments is a flawed approach.
It's also not as if the USA doesn't have rehabilitation programmes. Halfway houses, probation plans, charities that work with rehabilitation, alternative treatment for addicts. These things exist; maybe not on as elaborate a scale, but they do exist. Their success rate just happens to be very spotty because in many cases the predominant culture of the offender's social environment will lead them to offend again; there is no fix for that other than somehow dumping these offenders in a completely different environment.
So yeah. It's a nice story, but not one that translates.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by bart on Sunday November 13 2016, @03:21PM
My mother in law used to work as a librarian in the Dutch prison system.
She says that whenever U.S. inmates entered the prison, they would always be very aggressive in the first few days, and then settle down and relax, realizing that no-one was going to rape or shoot them.
The animal in a cage attitude that pervades U.S. prisons turns people into aggressive animals. How strange!
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday November 14 2016, @04:19PM
In other words, we have a random mixture of largely unsanctioned and experimental programs, many of them designed in an attempt to dampen the overly harsh government response after the fact, which are largely ineffective because they aren't able to overcome the environment created by our own government which drives these people to reoffend.
It takes careful effort to fix a broken PC. It takes significantly more after you get frustrated and smash your boot through the screen. No charity can come up with a quick and easy fix for people who have already been through our prison system. "Dumping those offenders in a completely different environment" describes both the Dutch and the US prison systems, but in the US case, the environment into which we put them only serves to reinforce or create antisocial behavior.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @08:00AM
With the recent influx of migrants from the middle east and other muslim dominated lands rape convictions in the Netherlands has spiked. Show the world our rape problem. Jail does not fix this problem. Only castration.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @04:11PM
i'm a mostly a libertarian/anarchist but if the government is going to be allowed to kidnap and imprison people it should also be responsible to do it right. putting people into super criminal(or just pure regression into a damaged animal) training programs (US prisons) is not OK. If the government is given a power it needs to come with serious limits/requirements with verifiable checks and balances. If i were in charge i'd immediately stop charging people for victimless crimes and temporarily increase the budget for improving the system for current prisoners and start rehabbing these non violent offenders to prepare them for release as soon as they are rehabbed from all the damage the prison system did. talk with the dutch to see what has worked well for them. then let them the hell out. rehab could involve working for wages. some could go in a savings account for when they get out and some could go to the prison system to offset costs. same thing with the legal system. if it's going to be allowed to impose serious penalties, it needs to be highly accurate. If it can't meet those requirements it loses it's power until it can. right now it's all just a huge human vacuum designed to get the middle class to pay the unpayable taxes/unbought goods of the poor by paying to lock them up and pay for their cost of living. It's just modern day slavery disguised as criminal justice.