posted by
martyb
on Wednesday November 23 2016, @11:33PM
from the that's-one-way-to-reduce-emissions dept.
from the that's-one-way-to-reduce-emissions dept.
The head of Volkswagen's core brand is sketching out a broad restructuring emphasizing electric cars and digital technology such as autonomous vehicles and car-sharing.
Volkswagen division head Herbert Diess said Tuesday at a news conference at company headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany that the goal is "to fundamentally change Volkswagen" as it bounces back from a scandal over cars rigged to cheat on diesel emissions tests.
The plan foresees new investments in electric-car technology and in software that would enable new ways of using and sharing cars over the longer term.
Would all this upheaval in the auto industry be happening without Tesla?
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Volkswagen Aims to Go Electric, Raise Lagging Profits
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 24 2016, @12:44AM
The correct commentary is rather, "Would all this upheaval in the auto industry be happening without the Toyota Prius?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 24 2016, @01:19AM
Yeah, but it is hard to be a fanboi to Toyota. Wait another 10 years and he'll be telling everyone that Musk invented the electric car just like Apple invented the mouse, etc. No, maybe Musk invented the car. Before him, we all had to ride around on those bicycles with the really big wheel in the front, and they put out a lot of pollution. That's why Musk had to invent the electric car.
We also wouldn't have had rockets if it wasn't for SpaceX, but that's a story for another time.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 24 2016, @03:04AM
No, the correct commentary is rather, "Would all this upheaval in the auto industry be happening without worldwide oil wars and ever-so-stringent environmental regulations in developed nations?"
But I have to give credit to Toyota -- they created a whole class of drivers who not only drive way worse than, but drive far uglier cars than BMW drivers, and all to show you how environmentally responsible they are with their Mac Laptops and smug White gated-community baby-boomer charm!
Bra-Vo. Toyota. You've created the world's new biggest douchebag. And they know what's best for American minorities!
(Score: 2) by goody on Thursday November 24 2016, @02:37AM
Yes. See also: Steam Engine Time http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=steam%20engine%20time [urbandictionary.com]
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday November 24 2016, @03:32AM
That's an interesting point. I think that James Burke made the same point decades ago.
It's also related to how broken patent systems are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 24 2016, @02:45AM
The head of a lying, cheating, environment-poisoning company [volkswagen] is sketching out a broad restructuring to move into new areas. Expect new lies about electric car range, charge time, and battery robustness. Beware if they develop autonomous vehicles because Germans car electronics has always been shit. But they will hire some dapper executives to explain future screw ups. It's a shame they can no longer employ slaves to build their POS vehicles. Please be a good citizen and cut off drivers of "Das Auto" on the road.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 24 2016, @03:13AM
Hey, the People's Wagon came to fruition under Hitlers's regime, in fact, with the rather nice catch-phrase:
FahrfromJuden. [photobucket.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 24 2016, @02:58AM
Selling autonomous electric digital carpooling doohickeys won't matter a whit if the commoners have no money to spend on such luxuries. I doubt billionaire playboy Musk is interested unless he buys the entire company, liquidates everything and lays off all the employees, producing even more poor people.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ledow on Thursday November 24 2016, @08:47AM
Electric cars have been around since the 60's and before. In the UK, we call them "milk floats".
Advanced in battery technology, from the lead acid to the Li-ion to the Li-poly are what's driven electric cars, not the car itself.
And even things like the advance in powerful magnets, and development of large electric motors for lots of purposes.
Not Musk and his toy car.
If you haven't noticed, most people still don't own an electric car. And those that do have hybrids etc. that are nothing to do with Tesla. And Tesla's car is sold on the "autopilot", re-use of the battery, etc. rather than it being electric.
This "upheaval" isn't really. I can buy an electric car from most manufacturers today. When I bought my car at the end of last year, direct from the manufacturer, they had electric and hybrid models. There's a reason that I didn't touch them. Many reasons, in fact. I work in private schools, and I see thousands of cars come and go past my office window every day, owned by some of the richest people in the area. Few of them are electric and those that are are hybrid rather than full electric. There's a reason for that, too. And these people own iPhones and demand iPads for their kiddywinks "because". Hell, one of them phoned in saying they couldn't come to school today because "the Porsche was stuck behind the electric gates". I kid you not.
This "upheaval" is VW desperately searching for a new product line that doesn't have their bad reputation smeared all over it. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they sold their electric cars under an entirely different name to avoid the association. Every other manufacturer has an electric model. They aren't exactly selling like hot cakes.
Tesla gets the press because it's the only car manufacturer NOT selling petrol and diesel cars. No other reason.
But electric cars have been around for decades. They always suffered range issues. They always suffered expensive battery replacements. They always suffered huge weight for their batteries. They always suffered long recharge times (overnight in the case of electric milk floats). The only thing that's changed is the battery technology (nothing to do with Tesla), which gives them the capability to produce more torque (hence greater acceleration). Electric cars can out-accelerate any sports car made. But people still aren't buying them en-masse. Because what they can't do is the Le Mans 24 hours, or even that "trip to Auntie's over Christmas" reliably. I know of ONE place with electric charging in my town - it's a Waitrose (posh supermarket). Sure, you could leave it plugged in while you wandered around doing your shopping but that 30-minute charge isn't going to do much after you get back home. Yet I can name 10+ petrol stations off the top of my head even though I only ever use one, use it once a week (if that), and spend 5 minutes in it.
I have a 32Amp commando connector electric RCD outlet on the side of my house. It runs my girlfriend's electric kilns when she uses them. I have a massive thick cable for it that would easily reach the front-yard (I actually bought it with that intention of future-proofing, and so I can plug a lawnmower or whatever in too). I bought a brand new car recently. I looked at, and then didn't buy, electric vehicles. I hate cars, mechanical things, I'm not interested in boy-racer speeding or colour or sleekness or accessories - I want a car that's functional first, has room inside it, and just works. Gimme another cupholder rather than another second off my 0-60. The complexity of a modern fuel-based engine is way out of my league to do anything with, so you'd think I'd want to reduce mechanical interventions as much as physically possible.
But electric cars still don't cut it.
I've looked at electric mopeds quite seriously. It would cost me a penny to get to work and would be able to recharge fully during my working day, and I could literally plug it in in my office. My girlfriend's Italian so she loves the idea (they love their mopeds). But the purchase cost + maintenance + the fact that we can't use it for practical things involving more than a bag of shopping means it's a toy, still. Even alongside a petrol car for doing the bigger things, I can't justify the cost.
As such, there is no upheaval in the auto industry. There's a new product that people are just being pretty "meh" about. Every manufacturer copied it because it's basically an electric car from the 60's with a lithium battery, it's not hard to do. But they aren't exactly selling like hot cakes, and for good reason. Nobody has actually solved the problems with them - battery capacity, battery charging times, battery weight, battery safety.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Friday November 25 2016, @07:16PM
Nobody has actually solved the problems with them - battery capacity, battery charging times, battery weight, battery safety.
General Motors claims a 238-mile (383 km) range for its Chevrolet Bolt. It's not going to win at Le Mans but it seems adequate for many purposes.
/article.pl?sid=16/09/14/0130242 [soylentnews.org]
As for safety, the unique danger is high voltage. The dangers of fire or explosion are also present with petrol, CNG, propane or hydrogen--perhaps less so with diesel, but this topic is about VW. ;-) I've not found statistics on such things but one freelance blogger who did
[...] concluded that, to date, a significantly smaller percentage of [Teslas] catch on fire than conventional cars.
-- http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/1102/Tesla-Motors-Model-S-fires-Another-setback-for-electric-cars [csmonitor.com]
When an electric car burns or explodes, it may be deemed more newsworthy than when the same happens to an ICE car.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 24 2016, @12:06PM
>Would all this upheaval in the auto industry be happening without Tesla?
look man, love to see a fan of simplicity as much as the next guy. but taking the reducto models of physics to imply that effects have simple and singular causes is just silly. please find a better poke if you want to stir up the commenters to get your clicks. we really want to be here, just please cut out the infantilizing
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday November 24 2016, @02:04PM
You know what's also silly? Fetishizing complexity and diluting clear trends in a system because post-modernism has instilled a terror of asserting anything. Would you also dispute Apple's singular role in disrupting the market for MP3 players? How about in smartphones?
Nissan was first to market with its Leaf. It made barely a ripple. Toyota had its Prius line for years but there was no concommittant rush to hybrids by other companies. Tesla has captured the limelight with its vehicles, its strategy, and its adept PR operation. We see the effects echoing from its Model S competitors in Mercedes to the Paris Auto Show just past, where every major brand was showing their EVs. I submitted an article a few months ago about how Tesla Model S is outselling every other car in its class. That's what disruption looks like.
Nobody at SN gets paid. SN is a community run site and sells no advertising. There is no revenue model and therefore no need to get"clicks." Posing an icebreaker question is meant to encourage discussion among soylent's very knowledgeable community, not to infantilize anyone or anything. If you read that to mean our submitters are stupid, or that they think our community members are stupid, then that says more about you than it does them. You misread the purpose and intent of the device.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by gidds on Thursday November 24 2016, @01:59PM
The VW story didn't surprise me. But I expected a host of similar stories about other diesel manufacturers to follow before too long.
The silence must mean one of two things:
• VW were the only manufacturer gaming the tests. I find this hard to believe; the technology to do so is straightforward enough, and other manufacturers are certainly as motivated and probably no more scrupulous.
• No-one is talking about other manufacturers cheating. This also seems hard to believe; across the entire industry, many people must know about cheating, and if no-one else then VW themselves would have every incentive to blow whistles on other companies.
So what's going on?
[sig redacted]
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday November 25 2016, @11:38AM
Third option: Nobody involved really cares.
You see, VW cheated on emissions tests. The other manufacturers didn't care because they cheated them too, the people buying the cars didn't care because they wanted better fuel economy or more power (the %age of people who buy a car because of their emissions output is really really small, most of them don't have cars, and those that do go electric and/or Hybrid). The regulators don't really care (they just run the tests, and report the results with a pass/fail. Not in their remit to check for cheating), and neither do politicians or members of the EU ( you should see their carbon footprint, and the kinds of cars they drive, let alone private planes, boats, etc... ).
The only reason VW gets dragged over the coals is because of Politics. The EU slapped a US company (was it Apple?) with a massive fine, and the USA retaliated against VW (for a fine that just "coincidentally" was exactly the same amount as the EU fine to the US company). The USAs retaliation was an escalation as well, because (as you can see) most people, myself included, don't even remember the name of the original company which the EU fined and what for, but everyone still knows about VW.
The other manufactures are keeping a low profile now, unless they get picked on as the next casualty in what is essentially a mini trade-war between the EU and the USA.