posted by
martyb
on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:56AM
from the lets-start-the-monitoring-with-all-those-in-power dept.
from the lets-start-the-monitoring-with-all-those-in-power dept.
The FBI, National Security Agency and CIA are likely to gain expanded surveillance powers under President-elect Donald Trump and a Republican-controlled Congress, a prospect that has privacy advocates and some lawmakers trying to mobilize opposition.
Trump's first two choices to head law enforcement and intelligence agencies -- Republican Senator Jeff Sessions for attorney general and Republican Representative Mike Pompeo for director of the Central Intelligence Agency -- are leading advocates for domestic government spying at levels not seen since the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Police state surveillance is only bad when the other party does it.
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FBI and NSA Poised to Gain New Surveillance Powers
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(Score: 4, Informative) by quintessence on Sunday December 04 2016, @04:44AM
And this right here is probably going to be the most bitter aspect of a Trump presidency. Civil rights are going to nosedive, and with the expanded power of government may never recover.
And unfortunately what should have been an easy coalition is now confounded by the deep divides in the country, and equal suspicions that comrades today maybe amassing power to do the same once their guy gets into office.
The political football of power probably needs an overdue examination at this point, as the billyclub of government more than ever is going to rip this country apart.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:07AM
And this right here is probably going to be the most bitter aspect of a Trump presidency. Civil rights are going to nosedive, and with the expanded power of government may never recover.
Apparently you missed history class. This happens in every country's history. It doesn't matter who's in power-- that's the illusion of choice. It's a slope up to Authority, and a crash back to Anarchy. "One imagines Sisyphus happy." - that's the story of Us.
(Score: 2) by quintessence on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:26AM
And apparently you missed Steven Pinker's work that this is largely the most free, non-violent period in human history, even with Stalin and Hitler. The arc of liberation has generally moved forward, which will make it even more devastating when it falters, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that unless it is for a greater peace and prosperity.
Appeals to Murphy's Law may appeal to the sense of nihilism, but I think it actually gives more reason to re-examine our institutions and forge a better way forward.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:04AM
Anarchy? When? When has the government not violated our fundamental liberties and the Constitution? They violated our rights in different ways over the course of history, but never did they stop violating our rights.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @08:23AM
When you GOT rights in the 1st place maybe? I know it says they're "God given" or "self evident" but... lolz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @09:58AM
God literally says we're all slaves, but only to him, and we should murder and raze those who would enslave us or beholden us to a false god.
So basically our rights are self evident: We have no rights other than those God gives us, so if Trump is taking them away from us, and God hasn't told us to revolt, ergo he must be God's envoy and we must continue under the burden of enslavement and rights he deems to give us.
Makes you wish more people were atheists so that sort of mentality, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Shinto, 'Communist' or innumerable others didn't continue to believe that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:24AM
You're probably more wanted in the Handheld Tesla Coil Gun thread where you can thump your chest at your accomplishments at what you choose not to believe, and how superior you are especially in relation to a rocket scientist taking the time to educate people.
Given a choice between that or you, I'll take the Christian every day.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:30PM
Believe what you want, no problem here. But please realize a not insignificant portion of Christians do go in for the doomsday / kill the heretics type stuff. If you can't see how religious institutions manipulate people into doing evil (historically, and not all of them) then you need to do some reading!!!
With the anti-muslim rhetoric of the GOP backed by religious leaders I can totally imagine a slow slide into horror. Its an uncomfortable fact I'm sure that this wouldn't be so easy with a bunch of atheists, they won't sit down and listen to authority figures tell them what to think every week. This isn't meant as a personal dig, lots of religious centers are great.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday December 06 2016, @11:53AM
People who believe, but believe because they have thought it out themselves and have never been to church or been influenced by others, sure.
If they've been to church and have had that organisations teams than to them, no.
Religion is fine: ORGANISED religion is death. Just ask anyone who has been persecuted, tortured, raped, etc by ORGANISED religion. ORGANISED religion is DEATH.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday December 06 2016, @12:38PM
Wow, autocorrect sucks
"Have had that organisations teachings taught to them, no."
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:12AM
Maybe you MummyGuv lovers shouldn't have pushed so hard and so hard to "give" said powers to said government. You got all worked up over the idea of clubbing your opponents in the face with "your" new bat - but someone else up and took the bat away from you.
If the whole situation wasn't so stupid and dangerous, I'd be laughing in your face until my sides ached.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:13AM
Who are you talking to? Are you sure the guy you're replying to ever advocated for unconstitutional surveillance?
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:12AM
Stay salty, insignificant country. USA is the king of the world, and will continue to be for some time. USA! USA! USA!
(Score: 2) by tisI on Sunday December 04 2016, @01:04PM
Yep
We're pretty much self destructing as a civil society.
sign of the times
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:13PM
When will they start demanding crypto backdoors, like the clipper chip?
The UK already has demanded it.
People give up so much for conveniences, if not just out of ignorance.
I keep hoping the zombie apocalypse is quick, yet I still feel the need to take precautions, even if zombies in jackboots still will eat my brain when the time comes.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:20AM
If it were a democratic controlled congress the same bill would sail right through. The Powers That Be want more power, the rights of us low lives really don't matter.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by tisI on Sunday December 04 2016, @01:54PM
It's not just the system, it's the people you voted for.
Vote 'em all out? Replace 'em? Get rid of the corruption? Clean house?
No. You voted more corruption in and now we get the dictatorship the rightwingnuts feared Clinton, then Obama, were to bring upon them.
Wondering though how our new incoming enhanced police state will handle that massive gun sales that has been going on all those years.
We have many terrorists to be eradicated now from our house.
What to do. What to do.
I recall dubya was also pondering more privatized prisons being built for many of Americas nastiest citizens. Wondering when this idea will resurface. First the wall.
This may definitely be worth a bag of popcorn or two watching all those Larry the cable guy types having their doors kicked in and their guns taken from their "cold dead hands", while the cops tread on their "don't tread on me" flags, by the very people they rallied behind SO obnoxiously and belligerently as AC's on all those forums leading up to that holocaust of an election.
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself."
(Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday December 04 2016, @11:27PM
It's not just the system, it's the people you voted for.
How do you figure? The 2016 presidential election did a pretty good job of showing how it doesn't particularly matter what the people really want. The system is already busted in a way that inevitably degrades into only two viable parties and defensive voting, and of those parties, the (D) side had already picked its candidate before she was officially accepted and did everything possible to skew things in her favour regardless of what its people wanted. I didn't follow it as closely, but the (R) side also seemed to be doing the same kind of thing, but in reverse: rather than trying to push its favoured candidate, it seemed hellbent on blocking Trump with an "anyone but him!!!" approach that ultimately failed.
As a result, we ended up with a truly baffling election where Republicans were constantly slagging off their own candidate while the Democrats were force-feeding a narrative about how their intensely unlikeable candidate was mankind's beloved saviour. Beating Trump should have been an easy victory -- their leaks indicated the Democrats considered him such, in fact -- and if they hadn't interfered with their own processes it probably would have been.
Considered all together, it looks like what happened this year is the result of a select few attempting to manipulate a flawed system and the general public going "fuck you" and doing the opposite out of spite, rather than an actual representation of what people genuinely wanted. Granted, that's not a particularly good strategy for getting good changes made, but telling angry people to stop being angry doesn't really work.
It also didn't help that, due to the two-party nature, the voters got stuck having to choose between endorsing the Democrats' manipulative shenanigans or picking the Republicans' potentially self-destructive option. For someone like me that isn't entrenched in the D vs. R tribalism, there was no good choice. When you're offered a choice between a pound of shit in a blue bag or in a red bag, it doesn't matter what you choose, you're still getting shit.
(Score: 2) by tisI on Sunday December 11 2016, @02:31PM
The entire thing, election, was rigged, manipulated.
Took time. Lots of money.
We now got the biggest batch of cowards and crooks gathered in one group, all at one time.
Nothing good will come from this. Warm your KY
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:23AM
"Police state surveillance is only bad when the other party does it."
No, it was very firmly not OK then also.
You know where you can shove your innuendo also...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:10AM
No, it was very firmly not OK then also.
Tell that to the countless partisan hacks that infest the media and the populace in general.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:36AM
In your country.
Other places in the world are a little less ignorant...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:56AM
It's a dup [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:20AM
Just keeping in the proud tradition of the Green!
New editors, new mistakes, and countless opportunities to regale our favorite stories from the past week!
Why didn't you apply for editor?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @09:25AM
Why didn't you apply for editor?
That's obvious! Doesn't know how to spell "dupe"!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:41PM
Well, it's an anti-Trump story so it bears repeating.
HHHHHHHHiiiiiiiillllllllllllllaaaaarrrrrrryyyyyyy! Come Save Us!!!
(Score: 2) by Sulla on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:51AM
As always happens, the Republicans will take more power and authority. Then the Dems will just come in and set it in stone. Another day, another freedom lost.
Silly to think this same thing would not have happened with Clinton. Although I suppose it would have been to track down the violent alt-right and stop the frog posting.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @08:28AM
You have to accept that a majority of voters WANT to monitor everyone and WANT to nuke the mid-East and WANT see poor people without healthcare.
With that voter base, it's coming, probably quite soon now - but if not soon then later.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:09AM
I think it's more voters don't want to be horrified at beheading videos and that shitstorm in the Middle East bleeding over here like it has in France. If it could be assured that dropping a billion lollipops over their would end this, people would opt for that in a heartbeat. As it is, this will take a few generations to sort out, and the sense is for containment without making matters worse. Unfortunately, no one has the magic recipe for that.
The other part is most don't want to see more poor people due to healthcare, which is the way things are going now.
Piss off with your tired rhetoric. Things weren't any better under the dems.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:21PM
Nope its not rhetoric. Even over here in California I've met people who think all Muslims are evil, etc. It is not a stretch to imagine a lot of the UD would actually be totally fine nuking the middle east. They will also let the surveillance happen out of fear and ignorance. If you don't have anything to hide and all that... Wake up, reality is grim and too many people support it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @11:57AM
well comrad trump will not be the prez for ever and
sooner or later (probably sooner) he will miss the
"direct action" world of business to the endless compromise,
half-truths and negotiations of boletiks, predict.
and now some one should remind him that any spying laws
will also affect him after leaving office.
we should assume that "career" boletiks (even if retired) are way less
affected by this then "temporary" boletiksians.
after all "temporary" boletikians have a real productive life to return to.
of course, not everything is lost for the business world,
after all it STILL is assumed that all the computer problems
in the world are because of user and hackers.
the software makers that MAKE MONEY from their product are holy angels wandering
the earth in the name of the almighty god and impossible to fault. ever!
it now even seems that the very very religious clubberment is even
willing to take over some of the "blame" by throwing away basic
rights to embrace, shoulder and BUY INTO the crap (but HOLY) software
by keeping PAYING users (which are also tax payers) in the dark (for their
own un-reproachable betterment?).
The crap (but holy) software is so good that it will lead to a better society and world!
soon the holy angels will notice that half-backed products are the salvation
and tool for the religious government to ...errr... hack a new (better) world order into place!
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:41PM
The political parties are just businesses with branding - they fight over the words.
Ultimately no difference than Coke/Pepsi , especially since you have to drink soda that day /s.
The purpose of government is to make more government. That's what the founders of the USA *knew* would happen which is why there are checks and balances, and a bill of rights.
People might like to think tyranny and dictatorships are remote principles, but they are nothing more than the governmental machine having all the levers of power.
It then doesn't matter *who* is in charge - the machine still does the job it was built for.....
That came out a bit more libertarian than normal perhaps? And sort of riffed off the "Person of Interest" plot line....
For modern society , perhaps we need less dogmatic political system, and a more practical discussion on the limits of government....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @03:45PM
Yes, indeed (just "yes" isn't enough)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @04:49PM
There is the sensibility that, especially at this juncture, we don't need government as much as administration. People by and large get on with their lives indifferent to government for the most part. In a sense this is the highest form of government in that it just works without being noticeable or intrusive to people. People often forget how several aspects of the government just work.
I've also kicked around the notion of Total Government where the enterprise of government becomes so all-encompassing that everyone is a member of some politburo of some sort in another take on representative democracy. One the one hand the power of government is absolute, but it is so diffuse it is essentially powerless. If it could work, it keeps government ineffectual except for really big decisions with popular support. So far, the UN has proven otherwise.
Anyway, the point being is that it less about the power of government as much as how that power is allocated. The libertarian/small government sensibility is all but one of the ways government power can be kept in check. Not saying that one is inherently better than the other, but there are many ways to skin that cat.