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posted by martyb on Monday December 05 2016, @02:41PM   Printer-friendly
from the 1984-called dept.

Uber is beginning to track the locations of riders up to five minutes after a ride has ended:

As promised, Uber is now tracking you even when your ride is over. The ride-hailing service said the surveillance—even when riders close the app—will improve its service.

The company now tracks customers from when they request a ride until five minutes after the ride has ended. According to Uber, the move will help drivers locate riders without having to call them, and it will also allow Uber to analyze whether people are being dropped off and picked up properly—like on the correct side of the street.

"We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety," Uber said.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @03:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @03:05PM (#437164)

    We do this to invade privacy.

    The passenger is with the Uber driver, s/he can tell the driver exactly where s/he wants to be dropped off. What if the passenger wants to be dropped off a distance away from their final destination for privacy reasons?

    The app should not be tracking people after it is closed, I'm surprised smartphones even allow for this. The user should have to give prior permission for such a 'feature' and it should be opt-in.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 05 2016, @03:37PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 05 2016, @03:37PM (#437183) Journal

      Yep. Got to agree with you.

      There is no Uber anywhere near me, so naturally I don't use them. But, this would make my mind up to never use them again. I don't really care very much what their reasons are - there is no good reason to track my old ass. If someone is following me a crowd, I know he means me no good. If someone wants to follow me online/electronically, I know he means me no good. The bastard wants to profit off of me, and it's almost certainly dishonest.

      --
      I'm going to buy my defensive radar from Temu, just like Venezuela!
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:10PM (#437209)

        If someone is following me a crowd, I know he means me no good. If someone wants to follow me online/electronically, I know he means me no good. The bastard wants to profit off of me, and it's almost certainly dishonest.

        But this isn't some stranger, it's big brother who is physically tracking your movements so they can tell if you stopped in a store, etc after you've left the car (so they can sell that information to anyone who wants it, including law enforcement). BTW, who believes they only track you for "5 minutes"? What prevents them from tracking you all day, every day?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:52PM (#437243)

          BTW, who believes they only track you for "5 minutes"? What prevents them from tracking you all day, every day?

          You've got your answer right there...

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:59PM (#437247)

            You've got your answer right there...

            Right where? How do you know where I am?? Are you tracking me???

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 05 2016, @05:44PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 05 2016, @05:44PM (#437273) Journal

          It's not MY big brother. Probably EF's big brother . . . .

          --
          I'm going to buy my defensive radar from Temu, just like Venezuela!
        • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Monday December 05 2016, @07:21PM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Monday December 05 2016, @07:21PM (#437324)

          Tracking you everywhere everyday can be a larger drain on that battery: especially if the GPS radio is powered up.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @08:18PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @08:18PM (#437363)

            Maybe they meant to say "every five minutes" rather than "for five minutes."

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday December 05 2016, @03:45PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Monday December 05 2016, @03:45PM (#437188)

      We do this to invade privacy.

      More specifically, they probably think this information would be valuable to law enforcement, advertisers, or other third parties.

      --
      "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @06:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @06:17PM (#437287)

        Note to self: Do not take Uber next time I'm robbing a bank.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @10:35PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @10:35PM (#437430)

          Or if you're an activist, a journalist, a lawyer challenging the government, a dissident, someone's political opponent, a whistleblower, or someone else who plays a critical role in democracy. Do you think it's only the 'bad guys' who should be worried about tracking?

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:05AM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:05AM (#437547) Journal

            If you are one of those people, you ought to know better by now because your life depends on it. All you have to do is leave the cellphone in your office/home. See? I was working in the office/home with my family the whole time.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @04:54AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @04:54AM (#437543)

          You certainly won't wanna involve Uber in cheating on your spouse.

          Your spouse's PI will dig this up, and it will be grounds for divorce, with full alimony payments and forfeiture of all of your assets, up to and including your ass.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by WillR on Monday December 05 2016, @04:31PM

      by WillR (2012) on Monday December 05 2016, @04:31PM (#437220)

      The user should have to give prior permission for such a 'feature' and it should be opt-in.

      They do. What pissed off Uber users here is that the location permission used to be a tristate (No, Yes, Only when app is active). The last app update removed the "only when active" option, so now your choices are "Uber doesn't work" and "Uber can track me anywhere at any time even when I'm not using their app".

    • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Monday December 05 2016, @10:32PM

      by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Monday December 05 2016, @10:32PM (#437427)

      People shouldn't be giving their names to Uber to begin with. The service is garbage because you can't anonymously pay with cash.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 05 2016, @11:01PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday December 05 2016, @11:01PM (#437446)

      How many times have I been creeped out by a cab driver and told them to drop me off somewhere a block or two away from my final destination? More than twice, at least. I live down a long, private, shared driveway - if I'm asking you to drop me at the main road it's because I don't want you seeing my home, my cars, or anything connecting your fare to my personal life.

      I get that Uber drivers are basically hobbyists who do this for less than zero net remuneration (after you factor in the true cost of driving to the fare and driving away, including insurance, maintenance and depreciation of the vehicle.) That really doesn't give the "Uber Corp" any license to get valuable data from me without my consent. I guess if I ever do hail an Uber, I'll be bringing along a conductive sack to slip my phone into after the ride is over.

      --
      🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:52AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:52AM (#437554)

      > I'm surprised smartphones even allow for this.

      Well, I've heard this QUIT button is so old-school and unnecessary so it was removed from Android apps.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @03:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @03:31PM (#437177)

    So is a "rider" the driver or the passenger?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:11PM (#437211)

      They are already tracking the drivers ... and the passengers.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday December 05 2016, @04:47PM

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday December 05 2016, @04:47PM (#437235) Journal

      I intended it to mean the passenger but you can be assured the driver is being tracked most of the time.

      Basically all of the drivers use smartphones with GPS always on and Google Maps running, plugged into the cigarette lighter. The drivers may not even know how to get around the city they are driving in without GPS+maps.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2) by GlennC on Monday December 05 2016, @03:53PM

    by GlennC (3656) on Monday December 05 2016, @03:53PM (#437196)

    This is yet another reason why I won't use Uber...or any other unlicensed taxi service.

    I'm not going to go so far as to say that nobody should use them, but I won't.

    --
    Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Monday December 05 2016, @04:30PM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Monday December 05 2016, @04:30PM (#437219)

      anything I can't do anonymously (like a phone call or email; both of which I can spoof if I need to) I won't do with an app!

      app. sigh. app now means 'no way to know what its doing, zero trust in it, probably has bad intent as well'

      until we can fully firewall apps and have control over THEM, I refuse to install apps. my app collection is a handful if even that.

      its so sad that we have nearly total control over a real linux box but nearly NO control over 'same' linux that happens to run on a touch device that fits in our pocket.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday December 05 2016, @07:35PM

      by isostatic (365) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 05 2016, @07:35PM (#437332) Journal

      Uber is licensed as much as any other cab company in the U.K.

      • (Score: 2) by GlennC on Monday December 05 2016, @08:03PM

        by GlennC (3656) on Monday December 05 2016, @08:03PM (#437357)

        I didn't know that. Good for them, but as far as I know they're still operating in a legal gray area here in the U.S.

        Given this increased snooping from their app, even if they were completely abiding by all U.S. regulations, I still wouldn't use them.

        --
        Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday December 05 2016, @08:40PM

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Monday December 05 2016, @08:40PM (#437375) Journal

          I didn't know that. Good for them, but as far as I know they're still operating in a legal gray area here in the U.S.

          That was true just a few years back, but now that really depends on the specific municipality. In many places, they've accepted various local regulations like other livery services (or some variant of those regulations), as long as they don't interfere with their business model. So you should really check with a specific state or city to see whether Uber is operating under an officially regulated capacity or not. In some places, they've deliberately shut down an existing service or refused to enter a market if they know their presence (and what they're willing to do) would not satisfy local regulations. In other places, they're still "negotiating" with the local authorities.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:16PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:16PM (#437213)

    From the comments on ARS:

    FYI, on iOS, the app stops working if you refuse the pop up

    I guess that's technically still "opt-in", right?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @05:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @05:37PM (#437264)

      I call bullshit on that ARS comment. You can turn off location data for Uber in iOS and enter your location manually.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:24PM (#437216)

    As promised, Uber is now tracking you even when your ride is over.

    Sounds not like a promise to me. More like a threat.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Arik on Monday December 05 2016, @04:34PM

    by Arik (4543) on Monday December 05 2016, @04:34PM (#437224) Journal
    "it will also allow Uber to analyze whether people are being dropped off and picked up properly—like on the correct side of the street."

    Just how stupid, naïve, ignorant do they think we are?

    Very few, if any, smartphones have a GPS that's actually accurate enough to tell which side of the street you get out on under real world conditions.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by RedGreen on Monday December 05 2016, @04:48PM

      by RedGreen (888) on Monday December 05 2016, @04:48PM (#437236)

      "Just how stupid, naïve, ignorant do they think we are?"

      From what I have observed with all these new "services" people are signing up to in the last decade or so pretty fucking stupid, naive and ignorant. Giving away all your personal information for very little returned in exchange for it these companies are getting your entire life history for peanuts. Best part is most people are perfectly fine with this as long as they can sign up for the next new shinny to come along.

      --
      "Cervantes definitely was prescient in describing a senile Don fighting against windmills." -- larryjoe on /.
      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday December 05 2016, @08:52PM

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Monday December 05 2016, @08:52PM (#437377) Journal

        From what I have observed with all these new "services" people are signing up to in the last decade or so pretty fucking stupid, naive and ignorant. Giving away all your personal information for very little returned in exchange for it these companies are getting your entire life history for peanuts.

        To be fair, a lot of these services ask to track people in rather innocuous or even completely transparent ways. It's not like every time you go to a new website, a little dialogue box pops up and says, "Hey -- you know you're sharing just about everywhere you visit on the internet with Facebook, right? Would you like Facebook to know that you've visited this page and what you click on?"

        Changing various hidden bits of settings in your web browser or the settings on your phone or tablet can have significant privacy implications that most people don't realize. Yes, part of this is that they are "naive and ignorant," but part of it also is that services and apps conspire to keep them that way, and people have to deliberately seek out info on privacy to realize what those innocuous dialog boxes or hidden settings really can do.

        Consumers are simply never going to be educated on a deep level about all that stuff, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask them to be. If people are really concerned about the spreading privacy issues, the only solution that will actually work for most of the population is more sweeping regulation restricting what data can be collected and how, requiring everything to be "opt-in," AND making clear those "opt-in" things explain the implications concisely and clearly (e.g., not in the form of a 50-page EULA).

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Monday December 05 2016, @04:50PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 05 2016, @04:50PM (#437239)

      You're right, (civilian) GPS isn't that accurate. But "location services" probably is. "Are they closer to starbuck's wifi or the cafe's across the street?"

      --
      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @05:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @05:05PM (#437252)

        You're right, (civilian) GPS isn't that accurate.

        Civilian GPS has exactly the same accuracy as military GPS since Selective Availability was disabled more than 16 years ago.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Monday December 05 2016, @11:46PM

        by Arik (4543) on Monday December 05 2016, @11:46PM (#437466) Journal
        GPS IS actually that accurate.

        But you won't get that kind of accuracy with the extremely minimal hardware actually built into the typical cellphone, at least not without staying in the same place for a long period of time and averaging.

        A dedicated GPS unit will have a MUCH better antenna and will localize more quickly.

        Google likes to cheat by taking into account wifi signals and previous readings etc. but in the end they're still guessing, and often noticeably wrong.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:55PM (#437245)

      Just how stupid, naïve, ignorant do they think we are?

      The message is not directed at you, but at the typical user.

      Very few, if any, smartphones have a GPS that's actually accurate enough to tell which side of the street you get out on under real world conditions.

      Very few smartphone users who read the announcement will even start to consider the question whether this is actually possible. And even fewer will be able to correctly answer it.

      Indeed, I'd be surprised if the majority even knew what GPS is, beyond "something in my smartphone that determines where I am".

    • (Score: 2) by jcross on Monday December 05 2016, @05:00PM

      by jcross (4009) on Monday December 05 2016, @05:00PM (#437250)

      That's true, but if they track both the driver and passenger for some time around the drop-off, it can be inferred. For instance, they can assume (in a drive-on-the-right-side country) that if the driver is coming from the south, they are likely letting the passenger out on the east side of the street. If the driver makes a U-turn with the passenger still in the car, we can assume the passenger is being let off on the west side of the street, but if the driver makes a U-turn without the passenger coming along, the driver is probably just changing direction to get to their next location. One can also look at whether the passenger starts going west or east and how long it takes them (i.e. did they need to wait to cross the street). The data are probably still ambiguous, but might be informative in the aggregate.

      Not that I disagree with your point that it's a lame excuse to justify collecting the data. Much more likely they want to know *why* people are taking that Uber ride in the first place, based on their actual destination rather than the address they entered into the app.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday December 05 2016, @05:03PM

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday December 05 2016, @05:03PM (#437251) Journal

      I just walked over to the curb to check it. GPS put me on the correct side of the street. Google Maps directions are also specific about which side of the street you are supposed to be on.

      Phones can utilize multiple variants of positioning satellite. GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo are all active or will be soon. There are two more I didn't even know about being launched by Japan [wikipedia.org] and India [wikipedia.org]. GLONASS is supposed to be more accurate than civilian GPS. A quick search found that the Samsung Galaxy S4 supports GLONASS, and that phone is over three and a half years old. Radio/Wi-Fi signals can also be used to improve accuracy. I believe Android/GMaps even asks whether you want to turn on Wi-Fi to improve positioning.

      Maybe you are living in a previous century, as shown by your predilection for monospaced fonts.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @06:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @06:19PM (#437290)

        Worse than that, Android uses wifi networks to further narrow your location unless you disable it... and continue to decline enabling it every fucking time you turn on your navigation app.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:43AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:43AM (#437532)

          Android can actually use wifi signals only - I've used this a couple times when weather made GPS impossible.

      • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Monday December 05 2016, @11:07PM

        by richtopia (3160) on Monday December 05 2016, @11:07PM (#437451) Homepage Journal

        Off topic, but the reason GLONASS is being included everywhere because Russia has a 25% tariff on any GPS device not including GLONASS. Including vehicles.

  • (Score: 2) by Celestial on Monday December 05 2016, @06:16PM

    by Celestial (4891) on Monday December 05 2016, @06:16PM (#437285) Journal

    I use Uber and Lyft a lot. I don't drive, my work is 13 miles from home, and public transportation is a non-starter. Buses are over-crowded, and what is a 30-45 minute car ride takes two to two and a half hours via public transportation. Normally I get a ride back and forth, but on days I can't Uber or Lyft it is. Taxi cab is $45 each way. Uber or Lyft? $25. For $40 a day, I'll let 'em track me for five minutes.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday December 05 2016, @06:19PM

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Monday December 05 2016, @06:19PM (#437291) Journal

      How unreasonable! I bet you're not even using Tor to post to this site! The death squads are en route!

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday December 05 2016, @07:49PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Monday December 05 2016, @07:49PM (#437347)

      13 miles in 30 to 45 minutes? if you're not in the snow belt or the sweatlands, you should consider an electric-assist bike.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @11:03PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @11:03PM (#437448)

      Only 20 Km? I do a similar trip every day by bus. Currently that is $2.50 each way or about $5 a day depending on peak vs offpeak price.

      I could maybe bike it but the traffic is known to be literally murder.

      Motorbike or scooter is probably the best option.

      However, they want a tram now which will cost billions. Bus ticket prices are expected to triple to cover the cost. They still have not costed and published tram prices.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:47AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:47AM (#437534)

      You pay more than I pay in rent and utilities just to go back and forth to work.

  • (Score: 1) by Lester on Monday December 05 2016, @08:36PM

    by Lester (6231) on Monday December 05 2016, @08:36PM (#437374) Journal

    Who cares? Nobody, except a few nerds

    Uber won't lose many customers because of this new surveyance policy. There are advantages and no price to pay. It's a win win movement. Why should't do it? Google, facebook, amazon, apple etc have been storing and using an unbelievable amount of data about us with no backslash, on the contrary, with huge profits. Uber is just learnig from others.

    Don't get mad about this, it's just the begining. It's the new world

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday December 05 2016, @09:27PM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday December 05 2016, @09:27PM (#437394) Journal

      There are advantages and no price to pay.

      There is a price to pay. But you'll probably never learn what it is. Most probably the price to pay is quite literally that, you paying more than you would otherwise, because the data tells that you will. And you'll never learn that you got a higher price than you would have gotten otherwise.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 1) by Mainframe Bloke on Monday December 05 2016, @10:49PM

        by Mainframe Bloke (1665) on Monday December 05 2016, @10:49PM (#437437) Journal

        Well said, MD.

        Re the original concept, I find it creepy. Think about it - they can track you at any time, effectively all the time, only limited by the space for storing the tracking data. "Information wants to be free", and freeing that information does not bode well for the subjects. It could end up anywhere.

        Makes me again strengthen my resolve to never use Uber, or any others like them. I may sound paranoid, but I really like my freedom and the power of knowing that they have no clue what my next move will be.

      • (Score: 1) by Lester on Tuesday December 06 2016, @11:21AM

        by Lester (6231) on Tuesday December 06 2016, @11:21AM (#437616) Journal

        I meant no price to pay forma uber

  • (Score: 2) by Geotti on Monday December 05 2016, @11:34PM

    by Geotti (1146) on Monday December 05 2016, @11:34PM (#437463) Journal

    Why don't you just turn off the app, location services and use a friggin' firewall on your phone? Location fakers help as well... There's so many apps that exhibit improper behavior that I've given up whining a long time ago. There's not much you can do for the regular joe anyway, they've all been pwned the moment they signed up with facebook anyway.

  • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Tuesday December 06 2016, @12:28AM

    by butthurt (6141) on Tuesday December 06 2016, @12:28AM (#437477) Journal

    In New York City, ride sharing is not only for young people.

    [In January 2016], Lyft announced a partnership with the National MedTrans Network that will provide seniors in NYC a simpler way to get rides to non-emergency medical appointments. To do this, the Lyft at Work team has introduced a slick-looking, third-party web application called Concierge that allows its partners to call Lyfts online on the behalf of someone who may not have a smartphone to do it themselves.

    -- https://techcrunch.com/2016/01/12/lyft-announces-partnership-to-help-seniors-without-smartphones-get-around/ [techcrunch.com]