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posted by Snow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @10:52AM   Printer-friendly
from the this-is-just-what-our-corporate-overlords-want-us-to-think dept.

You’d think striking it suddenly rich would be the ultimate ticket to freedom. Without money worries, the world would be your oyster. Perhaps you’d champion a worthy cause, or indulge a sporting passion, but work? Surely not. However, remaining gainfully employed after sudden wealth is more common than you’d think. After all, there are numerous high-profile billionaires who haven’t called it quits despite possessing the luxury to retire, including some of the world’s top chief executives, such as Amazon’s Jeff Bezos and Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg.

But it turns out, the suddenly rich who aren’t running companies are also loathe to quit, even though they have plenty of money. That could be, in part, because the link between salary and job satisfaction is very weak.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @10:55AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @10:55AM (#440739)

    Soon you'll be rich, just like the billionaires. See, they work too, and so should you.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:09AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:09AM (#440740)

    Dogbert: I finished ghostwriting your autobiography.

    CEO: "I was ridiculously lucky. The End." I was hoping you'd include something about all of my hard work.

    Dogbert: You didn't work any harder than your gardener, and he lives in his truck.

    CEO: What about my vision and intuition?

    Dogbert: My first draft had a chapter on your hallucinations and magical thinking. But I covered that ground with the title: "I'm A Delusional Sociopath And You Can Too."

    CEO: I'm starting to regret paying you in advance.

    Read more: http://dilbert.com/strip/2012-12-30 [dilbert.com]

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ledow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:24AM

    by ledow (5567) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:24AM (#440743) Homepage

    To be honest, if I'm a millionaire, I'm starting a company on day one and start doing things my way, instead of the stupidity that I've suffered every day of my working life.

    (P.S. I'm sure some of those under me will see my ideas as just as stupid).

    But "working" is not the antithesis of happiness. It's working for others, and working poorly, that is. I'm more unhappy to see things done badly than not done at all.

    Lounging about doing nothing is, I'm sure, wonderful for quite a long time. But most people would, I think, retain some semblance of work, even if it's on their own, at their pace, and when THEY want to.

    I'd try to hire those people who I know do a good job but are under-appreciated. I would literally go back and track those people down and try to convince them to come with me, even if it meant starting another company and hiring people just to make them work in their chosen area.

    I'd try to push out one of those products that I always think "Why does nobody ever get this right?", even if I was the only person who bought it.

    I'd sink enough money in the company/companies to pay everyone for 10, 20, however many years even if we NEVER MAKE A PENNY BACK.

    And then I'd expect / hope that we would actually make money enough to do something useful and earn something back.

    It's nothing to do with charity, or being a rich smartarse, or showing off, I'd do it to give good people a stable job, and to cure a few personal bugbears. I won't be getting up at 7 to rush into the office unless - and this is the important bit - there's something there that MAKES me want to do that. I would hope that, done right, there would be something like that.

    It doesn't mean I wouldn't splash out and do my own thing and have lie-ins and waste money on junk. But making something, doing something, building something, is an inherent part of enjoying life, rich or poor. Whether that's a house, a family, a skyscraper, or a vaccine, everyone has something that they want to make.

    To be honest, I'd plot the finances such that they last me into old age and no longer. And I'd bring friends, co-workers and family that were hard-working along with me for the ride.

    And the Christmas parties would be awesome.

    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:50AM (#440748)

      Lounging about doing nothing is, I'm sure, wonderful for quite a long time. But most people would, I think, retain some semblance of work, even if it's on their own, at their pace, and when THEY want to.

      Nope. See hikikomori, neets, social refusniks don't want to work, and quite frankly they don't want to deal with people like you, because of this:

      But making something, doing something, building something, is an inherent part of enjoying life, rich or poor. Whether that's a house, a family, a skyscraper, or a vaccine, everyone has something that they want to make.

      Instead of recognizing that people can be motivated to make things for their own personal satisfaction, you presuppose the motivation for making things should be to impress other people. You're not worth it, asshole.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:53AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:53AM (#440749)

        Nope. See hikikomori, neets, social refusniks don't want to work, and quite frankly they don't want to deal with people like you, because of this:

        Not just because of that, but because they lack a desire to interact with others to varying extents. The contempt for filthy normies is part of it, but not everything.

        Although I would hardly describe what they do as "nothing". They have their own hobbies and presumably enjoy them greatly.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:03PM (#440752)

          Hikki hobbies don't necessarily produce anything that they can show to others, and why should they, because they don't interact with others. They may deliberately choose to produce nothing tangible, so the filthy normies never get their filthy hands on it. Consider for one example, a musician who never performs for an audience and never records their work in any form.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:35PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:35PM (#440787) Journal

        Instead of recognizing that people can be motivated to make things for their own personal satisfaction, you presuppose the motivation for making things should be to impress other people. You're not worth it, asshole.

        OTOH, I wouldn't have a problem working for such a person, since at least they care about their work.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:56PM (#440847)

        Hikis and neets exist because society is broken. Its certainly why I became one for a while.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:38PM (#440869)

          That might be true for some of them, but countless others genuinely don't like interacting with others and would rather do other things.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:07PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:07PM (#440892)

            They don't like interacting in person because people are shit and everyone's a fucking asshole, because society raised them that way. They get all their interaction online, like in MMOs and irc, where people aren't all such fucking pricks.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:06PM

      by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:06PM (#440753) Journal

      I'd do it ... to cure a few personal bugbears.

      This sounds kind of free software-ish. Scratching an itch. I wonder if there is some kind of economic equivalent to open-source either already in existence, or waiting to be invented?

      I agree with your sentiments. If I had huge amounts of money I'd see to my own extended family's stability and comfort, and then redistribute the rest in the most fairest and most efficient way possible: Infrastructure. Either set up an organisation or team up with local / regional / national government(s) (depending on scale of my fortune) to build lasting infrastructure that will benefit thousands of people every day.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:14PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:14PM (#440756)

        I wonder if there is some kind of economic equivalent to open-source either already in existence, or waiting to be invented?

        Begging, SN does it.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:45PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:45PM (#440876)

        I wonder if there is some kind of economic equivalent to open-source either already in existence, or waiting to be invented?

        The reason open source works so well economically speaking is that while the cost of producing one copy of software is very very high, after that, the cost of producing any number of copies of the same software is almost zero. Other things that kind of behave that way are what are thoroughly misnamed "intellectual property": musical recordings, writing of all kinds, artwork, research and scholarship, and so forth. So with that in mind, one very ethical option for rich people is becoming, to use an antiquated phrase, "a gentleman and a scholar".

        That, or your proposed foray into philanthropy, are absolutely worthwhile and fulfilling activities for rich people. Playing the game of who's highest on the Forbes list or who has the bigger ... yacht are not.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:51PM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:51PM (#440880) Journal

        I'd try to change the world. You speak of infrastructure. I'd like to get people thinking that governments should build more transportation systems than just roads for cars and trucks. I'd like to see the sidewalk promoted to the walkway. The "side" in sidewalk denotes a vastly inferior status. Just because a route is inconvenient for an automobile road is no reason why it can't be done with a walkway. Make most buildings at least 2 stories, and connect the upper story with an entire network of elevated walkways. Move the sidewalk to the 2nd floor, call it a walkway or maybe a skywalk, and leave the ground level to the cars. The buildings themselves can be designed to support the walkway, no need to put bridge piers all along the walkway.

        But then, we can't be bothered to eliminate railroad crossings.

        I'd also like to see copyright law made completely irrelevant, turned into the kiss of death that ensures a work of art will be buried in obscurity because no one will touch it, and that because we have set up better business models to pay artists.

        Would take more than a few millions to swing those, I'm sure.

        • (Score: 2) by tathra on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:14PM

          by tathra (3367) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:14PM (#440897)

          part of the problem with city design is that things were made as the technology allowed it, rather than designed from the ground up with everything we have today. rails were laid down across the country long before the personal automobile was even a dream, and walkways were used long before either of them. we've had to lay rails across the walkways, and then lay roads across the rails, leaving us with a big, mishmashed mess of modern and legacy pathways crossing over each other all over the place. i dont think there's a single city in existence that doesn't predate the automobile (maybe in like China or Dubai or something, there's probably an edge case somewhere, but in general, most cities are well over 100 years old). if a new city were designed today, it could factor in all kinds of better ideas, like elevated walkways and light rail from the start instead of implementing them each as the new technology becomes available.

        • (Score: 1) by charon on Tuesday December 13 2016, @08:28PM

          by charon (5660) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @08:28PM (#440986) Journal
          Welcome to Minneapolis [skywaymyway.com].
          • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Thursday December 15 2016, @11:16AM

            by TheRaven (270) on Thursday December 15 2016, @11:16AM (#441562) Journal
            While a nice idea, the Minneapolis SkyWay runs through a load of shops that close at 5pm. Using it to walk home after dinner is practically impossible, as so many segments close that you end up having to go in and out so much that it stops being useful.
            --
            sudo mod me up
            • (Score: 1) by charon on Thursday December 15 2016, @08:43PM

              by charon (5660) on Thursday December 15 2016, @08:43PM (#441766) Journal
              I used to live there, and worked downtown; though it's been about 10 years since I moved. As I recall, downtown was dead after 6pm, and almost no one actually lived there. Perhaps that has changed. But it still is great during the day.
              • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Friday December 16 2016, @11:43AM

                by TheRaven (270) on Friday December 16 2016, @11:43AM (#442011) Journal
                I was only there for a conference. The Skyway came into the conference hotel, and it was great for getting most of the way back to the light rail (the day I left had heavy thunderstorms. My flight back to London was cancelled and I ended up going via Houston, which was almost exactly in the wrong direction), though it was raining hard enough that I got completely drenched the quarter of a block I had to walk between the skyway exit and the light rail station. That was when I learned that the airport metal detectors can't tell the difference between wet cloth and metal: everyone in the security line was being pulled aside for frisking - if my flight hadn't been cancelled, I'd probably have missed it. Most of the restaurants that we'd go to in the evening were several blocks away and the Skyway seemed like a good way of avoiding the rain and the need to cross roads. Unfortunately, bits of it closed when the shops shut (and the shops seemed to shut much earlier than any other US city I've visited), and there wasn't a good map of which routes stayed open.
                --
                sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 2) by Murdoc on Wednesday December 14 2016, @02:25AM

        by Murdoc (2518) on Wednesday December 14 2016, @02:25AM (#441131)

        I wonder if there is some kind of economic equivalent to open-source either already in existence, or waiting to be invented?

        Funny you should mention that. I've long liked to think of Technocracy [technocracy.ca] as an "open source" style of economy. It's entirely voluntary, just like open source. It works better with transparency and sharing of information like open source, as opposed to "trade secrets" that companies like to keep. And infrastructure!

        and then redistribute the rest in the most fairest and most efficient way possible: Infrastructure. Either set up an organisation or team up with local / regional / national government(s) (depending on scale of my fortune) to build lasting infrastructure that will benefit thousands of people every day.

        Technocracy's katascopic methodology insists on getting proper infrastructure in place from day 1. It's a key component of efficiency which is an important part of the design. This might be what you (and perhaps even ledow) are looking for.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:50PM (#440924)

      To be honest, if I'm a millionaire, I'm starting a company on day one and start doing things my way, instead of the stupidity that I've suffered every day of my working life.
      (P.S. I'm sure some of those under me will see my ideas as just as stupid).

      Reasons I don't share your ideal of running my own company with a bunch of employees:

      • "Bosses make stupid decisions" is at least as true as "stupid people become bosses". Becoming a boss imposes certain biases of perspective on you; being aware of them reduces, but cannot eliminate, their effect. Over time, they will turn you into something of a PHB. (It's only fair to point out that reciprocal biases are imposed on those who work for a wage or salary, but I prefer not to think about how I'm slowly being turned into a Wally.)
      • The modern ubiquity of employment is historically an aberration. Until the Industrial Revolution, western civilization was on a trend away from slavery/servitude/long-term employment and towards individuals or small groups running their own businesses -- that's what the whole "middle class" phenomenon was.
      • The employer/employee relationship is designed around asymmetry. The master thinks, the servant does. It worked great on the plantation, or in a textile factory, when you needed many hands and few brains to keep things going. There are few fields today where automation hasn't removed most of that asymmetry, leaving the employer/employee model poorly matched to the actual work being performed. If you really do need/want (for whatever reason) something bigger than a one-man business, and you have (as you do) a target list of known hard-working, skillful people to recruit, some form of cooperative organization should make better use of those people's abilities than the employer/employee model.
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:27AM (#440745)

    Bezo - selling to idiots
    Zuck - advertising to idiots

    I never shop online and I always ignore ads. Where are these idiots who made Bezo and Zuck into billionaires?

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:32AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:32AM (#440747)

    Probably a correlation between getting rich through innovation and intelligence.

    I'm willing to bet that those who get rich from winning the lottery, don't keep it for long.

    Although I do know a man who won $12 million in the lottery many years ago. From talking to him, you wouldn't know he was a multi-millionaire.

    Then again, having a million bucks these days isn't really considered "rich" is it? A million is a nice goal to have after working for 10-15 years in a decent salary job, and throwing $18k to your 401k and $5k to your Roth IRA and letting compound interest take over. I'm halfway there. Yeah, I still have student loans, but I pay the minimum. It isn't a zero sum game.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:57AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @11:57AM (#440751)

      Probably a correlation between getting rich through innovation and intelligence.

      Probably just your own greed and hero worship.

      I'm willing to bet that those who get rich from winning the lottery, don't keep it for long.

      And your prejudice against the poor.

      • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:52PM

        by q.kontinuum (532) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:52PM (#440793) Journal

        I would also assume there is a correlation between ambition and getting rich. Definitely not 1, but that doesn't mean there isn't a correlation.
        (There might be some correlation between sociopathy and ambition > 1 as well. I'm not implying ambitious people 'd be morally superior.)

        --
        Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:54PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:54PM (#440843)

        Calling it strictly prejudice against the poor is misleading. I would not expect someone who has never had much money to be as good at handling it and keeping it as someone who has had money all their life. There's an aspect of training and experience involved. That does not mean that the poor are somehow incapable of handling money well, but any time you do something you've never done before you're more likely to fail. Follow this with the simple fact that more people around you need money and I would guess that stacks the odds even farther against you. I mean, I live in a $155k house nestled among million dollar homes. If I won a $1M lottery no one in my neighborhood would be coming by asking for cash. A million dollars would get me a pat on the head, and an "oh he thinks he's people" from some of them. Move 2 miles north and I'm currently wealthy compared to the neighbors.

        • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:41PM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:41PM (#440871)

          I have heard second generation rich often lose a lot of money.

          Actually knowing how to work for it helps as well.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:05PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:05PM (#440803)

      I'm willing to bet that those who get rich from winning the lottery, don't keep it for long.

      They often don't: This is known as the "Sudden Wealth Effect". Basically, when a poor schlub wins the lottery, a combination of several factors more often than not destroys the fortune.
      1. They have no idea how to manage that much money, and often how to handle the math involved, so they end up buying ridiculously expensive things they can't really afford to maintain.
      2. They are prey for con artists of all types, many of them portraying themselves as competent financial managers.
      3. All their friends and family and anybody else who vaguely knew them will come to them begging for a handout.
      4. Charitable organizations swarm them, asking for donations.
      Many of the same problems affect professional athletes who are from non-rich backgrounds.

      Your millionaire friend is being very very smart: Millionaires who stay millionaires don't tend to talk about or flaunt their money.

      Then again, having a million bucks these days isn't really considered "rich" is it?

      Having $1 million in your portfolio means you have about $1 million more in savings than the average American. If you invest that at 5% return, that's $50K a year, which is the average household income in the US. Which means you can probably live quite comfortably without you or any spouse you have working, if you spend it wisely. That puts you in the upper class by my reckoning, because that early retirement option is always there, unlike everybody who either works or starves.

      And by world standards, of course, you are fabulously rich.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:09PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:09PM (#440755)

    Well yea, maybe I wouldn't quit working, but I wouldn't have to keep sucking my boss dick or suffer fools either. There is a PROFOUND liberation that happens when you can say "fuck you, I quit" at any time, which is probably why there is so much backlash against basic income. A bunch of assholes would be permanently out of a job, and the workplace would become instantly more pleasant.

    Not to mention I enjoy making furniture. Some people would consider that work, but I find it meditative. Might even start a business doing as such if I won the lottery. But comparing CEO with the general plebe is idiotic- a large percentage of CEOs are in it for the power. Most people want money to be free of that power.

    I'd also start my own Epicurean compound with most of my friends. We'd indulge our stupid ideas, like white nationalism, but mostly would just be free to enjoy each other's company without impositions.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:35PM (#440759)

      Just imagine every job is like contributing to an open source project. Suck maintainer dick to get your contribution accepted or it will rot in your personal fork where no one will ever see or use it. Otherwise maintain your own fork and spam the shit out of the search engines or your fork will rot and no one will ever see or use it. Deal with lazy fuckers who contribute nothing except bug reports telling you to add features for them or to demand you port your project to platforms you never use. Hell just imagine every job is like working on Linux. You either have Linus reaming your ass or you have Sarah Sharp trying to fire Linus for being a colossal fucking asshole. Either way you work with assholes. Basic income is not going to make assholes more pleasant.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:44PM (#440764)

        Small difference is most businesses are out to make money. Hard to do that if Bob is causing high turnover.

        And no, I'm already almost at the independently wealthy point, and my employers know it, so I don't even catch 1/10 of the shit other people do.

        Maybe the problem is the organization of open source projects? I mean most socialist countries become shitholes. Hard not to imagine most things that emulate that end up the same.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:56PM (#440769)

          And no, I'm already almost at the independently wealthy point, and my employers know it, so I don't even catch 1/10 of the shit other people do.

          You mean your employers aren't itching to fire you juuuust before you become independently wealthy, to screw you over and make you beg? How fucking lucky are you!

          Maybe the problem is the organization of open source projects? I mean most socialist countries become shitholes. Hard not to imagine most things that emulate that end up the same.

          The organization of open source projects is anybody can quit at any time, the most stubborn asshole always wins, and the key to advancement is to become the biggest asshole.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:05PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:05PM (#440772)

            The organization of open source projects is anybody can quit at any time

            Or fork the project. Or start another project. Or possibly the problem isn't the other people...

            In any case, that's different than coding at EA and having to make rent.

            the most stubborn asshole always wins, and the key to advancement is to become the biggest asshole.

            See the Soviet Union.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:00PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:00PM (#440800) Journal

            You mean your employers aren't itching to fire you juuuust before you become independently wealthy, to screw you over and make you beg? How fucking lucky are you!

            Oddly enough, people aren't colossally stupid just because you have infantile stereotypes.

        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:26PM

          by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:26PM (#440904)

          > Hard to do that if Bob is causing high turnover

          Hey! It's not my fault if those guys can't handle perspective and context.

    • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:59PM

      by q.kontinuum (532) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:59PM (#440799) Journal

      Not to mention I enjoy making furniture.

      I think the problem is not so much in the obviously constructive jobs. There are just some other jobs, where it is probably more difficult to find some intrinsic satisfaction, like e.g. scrubbing toilets.

      --
      Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:12PM (#440807)

        Actually ran out of cash during a road trip, and ended up scrubbing bathrooms to get enough to make it back home.

        While not the most enjoyable thing I've done, there's a certain satisfaction in doing something well. Mike Rowe has made the same observation.

        Or all the more reason to pay the more unpleasant jobs well, but then you get into why oil rig workers earn more than gender studies baristas, the whole wage gap thing... Marx's labor theory of value.

        • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:29PM

          by q.kontinuum (532) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:29PM (#440816) Journal

          reason to pay the more unpleasant jobs well

          I agree. With basic income for everyone, earning something on top would be an enjoyable thing compared to work hard to hardly make ends meet now. Also I suspect that the less enjoyable jobs usually require less training, so it would be entirely feasible (with basic income available) to have more people just working a few hours a week for some additional luxuries instead of having few people being forced to do it as a full time job.

          --
          Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:41PM (#440820)

            So guys, next time you visit a nice, clean public toilet, tip the toilet lady a dollar more ;)

        • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Thursday December 15 2016, @11:21AM

          by TheRaven (270) on Thursday December 15 2016, @11:21AM (#441563) Journal
          There's a part in Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons where the main character has just been introduced to The Culture and doesn't understand why there's someone serving in a restaurant in a post-scarcity society. The other character explains that his real vocation is comparative religion, but it takes about 100 years to properly test a hypothesis in that field. Meanwhile, if he wipes a table clean, he immediately gets satisfaction from a clean table and he gets to talk to interesting people (and enjoy the fact that they appreciate the clean table).
          --
          sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 14 2016, @04:45AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 14 2016, @04:45AM (#441180)

      What about this one. [telegraph.co.uk] I haven't quite figured out why those guys are paid so much. Now, the guest stars who fly in and have their names in the marquee, they're different because they're pulling in crowds and jacking up the ticket prices.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:41PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:41PM (#440763)

    After all, there are numerous high-profile billionaires who haven’t called it quits despite possessing the luxury to retire, including some of the world’s top chief executives, such as Amazon’s Jeff Bezos and Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg.

    That's not working, that's "working".

    When's the last time you saw a CEO actually working?

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:52PM

    by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @12:52PM (#440768) Journal

    would you really want this person working for you?
    When the shit really started hitting the fan and you needed everyone producing 200%, they could just go "Yah, well i'm the fuck outta here, i don't need this shit... i'm freakin' rich" and have them walk on you.

    I'd only want them around if they WERE the kind of person who ALWAYS gave 110%... the kind that you know would have your back.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:36PM (#440788)

      If you're needing everyone working at 200% you're already doomed anyway.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:57PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:57PM (#440797) Journal

      When the shit really started hitting the fan and you needed everyone producing 200%, they could just go "Yah, well i'm the fuck outta here, i don't need this shit... i'm freakin' rich" and have them walk on you.

      Plan better or hire more people. Because if it gets that bad, you'll be very lucky, if they're the only ones who leave.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:23PM

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:23PM (#440812) Journal

      When the shit really started hitting the fan and you needed everyone producing 200%, they could just go "Yah, well i'm the fuck outta here, i don't need this shit... i'm freakin' rich" and have them walk on you.

      I'm really trying to make sense of a case where this 200% thing seems like reasonable rhetoric at all. If an employer talks in those sorts of numbers, I'm probably out the door on day one anyway.

      On the one hand, there's the rational perspective where 100% is actually maximum effort or whatever, and all this BS about "giving 110%" all the time is just nonsense. In that case, even expecting 100% for extended periods will lead to rapid burnout and actually decrease productivity due to burnout effects. It's more reasonable maybe to expect 60-70% on a normal basis, pump it up to 80-90% for brief periods of crisis.

      But for you, if 200% is something like "maximum," and you're normally expecting only 110%, then you're actually expecting everyone to generally operate at 55% of capacity but acting like it's some great effort. The cognitive dissonance involved in such nonsense is enough to make me want to walk out the door on day one. And it's also just teaching everyone to act badly, "Yeah -- I know I could be doing better, but he only expects X, and I'm already giving a little more than that, so I'm good. Let's not show him what we're anywhere near capable of..."

      Now, on the other hand, if 200% is relating to something more quantifiable, like say number of working hours, or actual output of some widget or something, then what you're saying is also unreasonable. Maybe, in a severe crisis, you might expect people to do that for a day or two... ONCE in their career at your company. But if you're having an extended crisis that requires people to work twice as many hours as normal or produce twice as much stuff as baseline productivity for more than that, or if those "crises" occur on a regular basis, then the problem isn't "disloyal" workers who might walk -- the problem clearly is with the management who are creating these crises by refusing to staff properly. Either that, or if extra staff isn't affordable, the business is in danger of going under anyway, so I don't blame someone who wants to walk.

      If even a rich person has any pride in their work, they're going to stick around for a short crisis. But my experience is that people who use rhetoric like "giving 110% all the time" and then expect you to "give 200%" are frequently the kind of folks with irrational demands for workers, and that irrationality grows even stronger in moments of crisis. Thankfully I've never worked for such a company, but I have a couple close friends who have. I don't at all blame people who wouldn't want to continue working under such conditions.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by jelizondo on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:55PM

        by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:55PM (#440844) Journal

        Amen brother. Not even machines can operate at 100% duty all the time, why should we think people can? Where does people like this learn basic math? 100% is ALL there is.

        • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:52PM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:52PM (#440881)

          In engineering, you de-rate things as much as 50% so that they will work reliably for a long time.

          In that case, maybe 200% is the real maximum. However, at that power lever, you will get premature wear and possible failure.

          In the case of expecting workers to give 200%, maybe they are expected to exceed safe working loads, or sprint from station to stain fast enough that they risk injury.

          As you said, worker are not robots.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Geezer on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:24PM

    by Geezer (511) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:24PM (#440776)

    If some think tank wants to study this further, I hereby volunteer to be rich for the study. Purely for the advancement of science, you understand.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:31PM (#440777)

    Through various levels of society people actually expect you to work... even if you have sufficient money to live.
    Also, in my country (the Netherlands) there are many tax benefits if you work, you are set back a lot compared to the working population if you have enough money to live and don't work.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @01:49PM (#440778)

      Well, not everyone wants to be worker drones their entire lives, so the arrangement in the Netherlands isn't exactly fair. What kinds as "work" there, exactly? Working on free software projects which benefit everyone? Does non-profit stuff count, and would free software development be counted?

      • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:40PM

        by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:40PM (#440789)

        Well, if you don't have income, then you probably don't pay taxes.

        If you do have income, then either you're working, or you're getting capital gains - i.e. profiting exclusively from other people's work. So why shouldn't you pay more taxes to society since you're profiting entirely from it's work?

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:20PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:20PM (#440811)

          In the Netherlands you pay tax on the wealth you own, independent on income. 30% based on a 4% fictional interest of all the wealth you own. So effectively 1,2%.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:25PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:25PM (#440813) Journal
            I prefer an asset tax myself, but my country, the US has constitutional obstructions at the federal level against an asset tax.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:29PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:29PM (#440817)

              The Netherlands tax both income and asset/wealth. But all advantages are in the income part.

            • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:26PM

              by mhajicek (51) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:26PM (#440834)

              Since when has a constitutional obstruction stopped them?

              --
              The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:08PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 13 2016, @05:08PM (#440850) Journal
                When it comes to allowed taxes, the entire lifespan of the US. Not all constitutional aspects are equally abused.
                • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday December 14 2016, @12:03AM

                  by Immerman (3985) on Wednesday December 14 2016, @12:03AM (#441087)

                  I don't know, the sixteenth amendment allowing for a pretty huge change in tax law - prior to that the federal government could only raise funds by apportionment amongst the states.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 14 2016, @01:31AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 14 2016, @01:31AM (#441111) Journal
                    The Sixteenth Amendment only allows in addition taxes on income.

                    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

                    • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday December 15 2016, @07:39PM

                      by Immerman (3985) on Thursday December 15 2016, @07:39PM (#441731)

                      And today personal/corporate income tax is the government's primary source of income. I'd say that's a pretty major change, wouldn't you?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 16 2016, @05:08AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 16 2016, @05:08AM (#441952) Journal
                        It was intended from the beginning of the amendment to be a major change. No one should be amending the Constitution lightly IMHO. Anyway, the point is that the change, major as it is, is completely allowed by the original amendment. An asset tax would be a huge change that is not allowed by the amendment.
      • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:17PM

        by nitehawk214 (1304) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:17PM (#440808)

        So how did you get this pile of money to make you rich without paying taxes on it in the first place?

        --
        "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:26PM (#440814)

          I nowhere said I own a large pile of money. Also, there are enough ways to make money AND pay taxes, and still keep enough money left to end in a situation where you would like to stop working, but face the relative higher tax due to not working.

          Politicians here have said often that "Working should pay off", meaning lower taxes for people who work. This is what I mean society expects you to work.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:17PM (#440810)

        Work where you get paid a salary (through a company, or as self employed (registered business)), or an income through social security (pension, disabilities, jobless). If you work voluntary for a non-profit, you're expected to have a paid job beside it (sometimes it is possible to combine it with a social security subsidy). But many social security subsidies aren't possible if you are too rich.

        Example:
        We have here a discount on tax where a percent of the rent on a mortgage can be subtracted from your income. If you have no job, this can't be subtracted (no income), while you might have a lot of wealth.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:50PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @02:50PM (#440791)

    you make me rich enough to not need working, and I guarantee I won't do anything but pursue my hobbies afterwards.

    • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:10PM

      by q.kontinuum (532) on Tuesday December 13 2016, @03:10PM (#440806) Journal

      ... but can you guarantee the hobbies are all totally unproductive?

      --
      Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @04:11PM (#440830)

        His hobby is Warcraft. QED

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:41PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @06:41PM (#440917)

    If the billionaires quit, who will they have to boss around? Do you think the cat sleeping on the sofa next to a retired billionaire gives a shit about the billionaire's sudden marvellous insights into market trends? Do you think his wife is going to jump up when he says he needs a memo dictated for everyone to read immediately? The newspapers and TV will be without his or her presence as well.

    It's like when a politician is out of office and runs again a couple of years later because "The country needs me." (No it doesn't.)
    See for example all our 70 year old politicians who just can't let go for someone else to run.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @09:43PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13 2016, @09:43PM (#441021)

    Well, I'd sure like to try! Why don't we just test me and see if I fail or not.