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posted by janrinok on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:24AM   Printer-friendly
from the but-the-money-is-good dept.

It didn't dawn on me that there might be a few holes in my education until I was about 35. I'd just bought a house, the pipes needed fixing, and the plumber was standing in my kitchen. There he was, a short, beefy guy with a goatee and a Red Sox cap and a thick Boston accent, and I suddenly learned that I didn't have the slightest idea what to say to someone like him. So alien was his experience to me, so unguessable his values, so mysterious his very language, that I couldn't succeed in engaging him in a few minutes of small talk before he got down to work. Fourteen years of higher education and a handful of Ivy League degrees, and there I was, stiff and stupid, struck dumb by my own dumbness. "Ivy retardation," a friend of mine calls this. I could carry on conversations with people from other countries, in other languages, but I couldn't talk to the man who was standing in my own house.

It's not surprising that it took me so long to discover the extent of my miseducation, because the last thing an elite education will teach you is its own inadequacy. As two dozen years at Yale and Columbia have shown me, elite colleges relentlessly encourage their students to flatter themselves for being there, and for what being there can do for them. The advantages of an elite education are indeed undeniable. You learn to think, at least in certain ways, and you make the contacts needed to launch yourself into a life rich in all of society's most cherished rewards. To consider that while some opportunities are being created, others are being cancelled and that while some abilities are being developed, others are being crippled is, within this context, not only outrageous, but inconceivable.


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:45AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:45AM (#446918)

    The op doesn't say when they went to high school. For me, that was around 1970. I had been "college tracked" in earlier grades and eventually took AP classes senior year. But I always had a desire to work with my hands, so somehow I managed to fit metal shop, mechanical drawing and a few other "blue collar" things into my high school schedule. I can remember a meeting with a guidance counselor who helped me juggle my schedule and classes so everything would fit.

    At the time, my academic peers didn't understand why I was "slumming it" with all those "dummies" but even then I could see that there were plenty of smart and artistic people in the shop classes, just not book-smart. Meanwhile, I was subject to some hazing by the tougher guys in the shop class, until I showed that I could match them with various tools.

    I went on to a degree from an Ivy, but the early manual training has served me well. And I usually don't have any trouble talking to plumbers, even if I don't have all the detailed knowledge/experience that lets them do their job effectively.

    From what I've heard, this can be all but impossible to do these days. My old school shut down most/all of the shop classes completely.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:53AM (#446941)

      Even in the mountain country out here in California they have been cutting shop classes.

      One of my professors in college was working sundays down in the valley at a JC, but his 9-5 job was as a shop teacher up in the mountain country doing auto shop for the kids up there. He spent 7+ years building this program up, including making the contacts necessary to get them 'cast off' automotive parts for building/modifying a drag car (which in turn they would bring down to the city and get to take runs in at the local raceway.) Long story short, the administration of the high school/district up there changed, and the shop class got axed. All that hard work (which was enough to get a page or two mention in Hot Rod Magazine!) went down the drain in a single short sighted choice by a new school administrator, and years of work went to naught for future children passing through that high school, many of which may have found that their only joy in an otherwise miserable high school experience (I know mine personally was!)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:13AM (#446955)

        That shit boils my blood. Teachers sacrifice so much of their lives for the benefit of their students, and it can be undone with the swipe of a pen... Yet another example of why we need to create a post-economic reality where such a simple thing as educating our children is no longer crippled by financial concerns. In such a future the hard part would be finding someone to take over the shop program when that teacher retires.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:15AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:15AM (#446973) Journal

          Yet another example of why we need to create a post-economic reality where such a simple thing as educating our children is no longer crippled by financial concerns.

          What makes you think it is now? Just because some suit's priorities are screwed up doesn't mean that financial concerns are the reason. There's generally a lot of money to go around.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:10AM (#447025)

            Yeah there's lots of money, but I've heard rumours that the administrator-teacher ratio has gone up in many places and some administrators are probably getting too much. Can't be bothered to verify at the moment.

            And the typical US reaction is that means Public Education is broken so instead of fixing it let's partially replace it with other stuff (home school, vouchers etc).

            If you're not the ruling caste and still want Democracy it's in your interest to try to get public education fixed. If you're in the ruling caste, congrats, just make sure Trump doesn't nuke us all (e.g. tell the Secretary of Defense he gets amnesty for shooting Trump dead if he tries to launch the nukes just because of some tweet).

            • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:23PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:23PM (#447094) Journal

              And the typical US reaction is that means Public Education is broken so instead of fixing it let's partially replace it with other stuff (home school, vouchers etc).

              That's my view as well.

              If you're not the ruling caste and still want Democracy it's in your interest to try to get public education fixed.

              Trying isn't working for a considerable portion of public schools. It's yet another place where the US spends a lot of public funds without getting appropriately good results.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:39PM

                by Whoever (4524) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:39PM (#447120) Journal

                And, right on schedule, khallow comes up with yet another unsupported Republican talking point.

                If public schools could be selective in the way private schools are, results would match private schools.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:01PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:01PM (#447130) Journal

                  And, right on schedule, khallow comes up with yet another unsupported Republican talking point.

                  A talking point doesn't become any more or less true just because you call it a talking point. In the US, there are large public school systems which are notoriously bad (and not in the sense of merely having bad students) and overseen by an elected school board. If democratic action were enough to prevent these systems from becoming that bad, then it would have happened by now.

                  If public schools could be selective in the way private schools are, results would match private schools.

                  And sometimes they do.

                  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:13PM

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:13PM (#447207) Journal

                    A talking point doesn't become any more or less true just because you call it a talking point.

                    Unless, of course, the reason it is a talking point is that it is not true, and khallow's Republican masters have put out the word that the talking point is to be repeated enough to create the plausible impression that it might be true. This is a time whonored propaganda technique. Learned it from the Nazis!
                        Besides, we know the US educational system sucks, since khallow cannot read Marx. Even in translation. So sad.

        • (Score: 2) by Ellis D. Tripp on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:04PM

          by Ellis D. Tripp (3416) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:04PM (#447106)

          became a LOT more difficult once a degree in education became a requirement. This rules out almost all the highly skilled contractors, technicians, mechanics, and tradespeople who went directly into the workforce, and then want to get into teaching later in their careers. There were once "alternative certification" programs in place specifically for this purpose, but they have largely been removed in this age of a college degree becoming the new HS diploma....

          --
          "Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!"--Edward Abbey
        • (Score: 1) by Sumtingwong on Friday December 30 2016, @04:19AM

          by Sumtingwong (3592) on Friday December 30 2016, @04:19AM (#447272)

          The same suit who axed the program did his damnedest to get into the Ivy league, may or may not have succeeded, and is the author of story you just read and posted.

          --
          Things are more like they are today than they ever were before.
      • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:25AM

        by mhajicek (51) on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:25AM (#446980)

        And then they wonder why all the jobs went overseas. Most jobs which are not manufacturing exist to support manufacturing in one way or another. A service only economy cannot support itself.

        --
        The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:50AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:50AM (#447006)

          Even now, it looks like we are living on borrowed time and money... until the financiers call the note.

          We have been warned ( by the Bible ) not to do this, but we have done it anyway. We will pay the price. It won't be cheap.

          • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:19PM

            by mhajicek (51) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:19PM (#447110)

            Curious, what warning in the bible are you referring to?

            --
            The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:14PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:14PM (#447151)

              It's the one on the last page that reads "The End".

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:39PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:39PM (#447121) Journal

            We have been warned ( by the Bible )

            I'll note here that the vast majority of Earth (including most of the US) doesn't use the Bible as a morality guide. I would recommend instead appealing to something they do use.

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:50PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:50PM (#447166) Journal

            We've also been warned by the Bible not to plant two or more kinds of grain in one field, wear mixed fabrics, or let a guy with cataracts into the Temple. How about you appeal to reality as to why this is a bad idea instead of a collection of books written by bloodthirsty Iron-age savages wondering where the sun went at night, huh?

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:06AM (#446999)

        FFA was that for me. but I lived in a now quasi-rural area for high school.
        if you want a relatively safe way to get your ivy league knuckles dirty, volunteer a few weekends at a Habitat For Humanity build. And be just a bit humble. It can be fun, even if it's just doing schlep work.
        The real crew will be used enough talking to people like you. And chances are any real tradescrew they have, like plumbers, have probably worked for Habitat for Humanity too, so may have some people skills.
        just be willing to listen. and do. It's a work sirte after all.

        • (Score: 1) by theronb on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:09PM

          by theronb (2596) on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:09PM (#447222)

          I'll second that on Habitat, and you might just learn something that you'll find useful and rewarding even if you don't have to make a living at it. Also, "And be just a little bit humble." Ask a few questions, show you're interested in what they think and know. You probably already know to do that with your Ivy League friends and acquaintances; it works with anybody.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:17AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:17AM (#446945)

      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24labor-t.html [nytimes.com]
      "Yet my M.A. obscures a more real stupidification of the work I secured with that credential, and a wage to match. When I first got the degree, I felt as if I had been inducted to a certain order of society. But despite the beautiful ties I wore, it turned out to be a more proletarian existence than I had known as an electrician. In that job I had made quite a bit more money. I also felt free and active, rather than confined and stultified. A good job requires a field of action where you can put your best capacities to work and see an effect in the world. Academic credentials do not guarantee this."

      Also: http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ [tripod.com]
      "The hidden root of much career dissatisfaction, argues Schmidt, is the professional's lack of control over the political component of his or her creative work. Many professionals set out to make a contribution to society and add meaning to their lives. Yet our system of professional education and employment abusively inculcates an acceptance of politically subordinate roles in which professionals typically do not make a significant difference, undermining the creative potential of individuals, organizations and even democracy."

      And "Post-Scarcity Princeton": http://pdfernhout.net/reading-between-the-lines.html#Rethinking_the_mythological_scaffolding_of_the_Princeton_community [pdfernhout.net]

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:42AM (#446951)

      In high school I was "college prep" so I had to take Latin and was not permitted to take up space in metal shop or drafting. So as soon as I got to college I was informed that Latin was useless for an engineering degree and I would have to take drafting immediately. On my first job out of college I had to make parts on a lathe (self-taught). Meanwhile my old high school eliminated the metal shop. Based on my experience, the problem with education is educators.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by cellocgw on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:49AM

    by cellocgw (4190) on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:49AM (#446919)

    Just because this fellow never learned the art of conversation hardly means that's the fault of the Ivies. What a whiny little jackass.

    That said, there's a reason there are things like weather and local sports teams: so people from wildly divergent backgrounds have something to negotiate common space with.

    I know plenty of people in the trades who have a degree from decent colleges. I know plenty of people in AND out of the trades with whom I can't have anything resembling a conversation because our worldviews are orthogonal.

    Screw it: I'd rather talk to dogs anyway. They pay attention.

    --
    Physicist, cellist, former OTTer (1190) resume: https://app.box.com/witthoftresume
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:41AM (#446937)

      Fully agreed. I'm a bit of a geek, don't like sport and am a little introverted, and even I managed to pick up a few rules of thumb for talking to new people. It's not rocket science.

      Do's:
      Get people to talk about themselves or something they are passionate about, most people enjoy it and it makes them feel interesting.
      Leading on from that, some great conversation starters are to ask people about their hobbies. My favourite one is "what do you do for fun?".

      Donts:
      Dont listen just to respond with your own story.
      Dont ask about their job, at least not straight up. It's just lame.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by vux984 on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:51AM

        by vux984 (5045) on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:51AM (#446953)

        I see those same tips over and over again. I hate them.

        "Do's: Get people to talk about themselves or something they are passionate about, most people enjoy it and it makes them feel interesting."

        What do you do if you run into someone like me playing the same 'game' as you.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:16AM (#446956)

          You smile and nod knowingly at each other, secure in the fact that you both can claim social acceptance without the pesky "conversation" part.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:17AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:17AM (#446974) Journal

          What do you do if you run into someone like me playing the same 'game' as you.

          You figure it out, then talk about what you really want to talk about.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:17AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:17AM (#447001)

        is it so simple, though?
        Go cut in on a social conversation your company's CEO or director is having with his or her perers.
        The Ivy is gonna pull that off far easier than random developer from ite IT department. Eyebrows might be raised initially about the interloper (intruder), until whispers get around that it was Biff from Cornell, rather than Milton from the IT help desk.

        Just as awkward for most CxOs etc to drop in on a random employee group conversation. everyone is usually way too aware of everyones' relative socisl positions.

        Sure there are bosses & executives who are just good at it. But most aren't.

        kind of like a rancher & his animals. Theyre far easier to send them off to their ultimate destiny if you don't name them...

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:50PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:50PM (#447164) Journal

      Just because this fellow never learned the art of conversation hardly means that's the fault of the Ivies. What a whiny little jackass.
       
      I guess you could argue that it's the Ivie's fault for accepting a student that's too stupid to pick up a DIY book.

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:49AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:49AM (#446920)

    i grew up with people like that plumber, i went to their schools and i went to a low grade university and i still cant talk to people like that cos the vast majority of them just aren't interesting, they are dull, mundane, trivial, nuthin to do with "elite education".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:41AM (#447011)

      "Boring" is relative. Many like to talk about food and celebrity gossip, and to their friends that's interesting. They won't care about EM-Drive news or debate, but so be it.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by caffeine on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:52AM

    by caffeine (249) on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:52AM (#446921)

    This article is not really about the disadvantages, the writer really just wants to talk about all their privileges. Obviously people are not giving them enough attention for being an elitist prick.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:35AM

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:35AM (#446960) Journal

      I know what the submitter is talking about. I've experienced those kind of snotty, elitist schools. They aren't about education, no matter how much they claim otherwise. They're about privilege. Making sure Ritchie Rich only meets people worth meeting, only makes connections with other privileged kids. They're about brainwashing the kids into believing they really are superior to their fellows in the public schools, feeding the parents' expectations. The community of such a school indoctrinates the kids with an Ayn Rand mindset. It's very clubby. The "education" they provide can be decidedly mediocre. Their educational philosophies can be awfully dated, stuff straight out of Victorian England.

      Whatever reputation they build up is built on them being so picky about who they let in, not the excellence of their teaching. They cherry pick the students. Make the minimum required SAT score 50 or 100 points higher than average, and of course the school is going to look good.

      A pretty good depiction of an elitist private school at the high school level is a Robin Williams movie, Dead Poets Society.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:19AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:19AM (#446978) Journal
        Keep in mind that they're selling an education. Elitism due to the high price tag is one of the few things that'll stick no matter how bad the education actually is.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:08AM

          by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:08AM (#446991) Journal

          Idiot discovers head stuck up arse* , finds it hard to talk.
          Nothing to do with education, everything to so with being able to live in a bubble.

          (*An ass is a donkey)

          --
          "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:43PM

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:43PM (#447147) Journal

            Idiot discovers head stuck up arse* , finds it hard to talk.

            That's THE best summary of this story. I don't know what the hell this writer is talking about other than his own pretentious self-absorbed elitism, which he apparently was unaware of.

            Don't get me wrong -- as someone who went to some elite schools but whose entire family is blue collar, I know firsthand that there are plenty of elitist jerks at top colleges. But it's NOT the top colleges that make them elitist jerks. The author is the one who chose to value himself ONLY in terms of his scores on standardized tests, the author is the one who never sought out conversation with the "common folk" that are all around him, the author is the one making assumptions about the "worth" of people in society based only on elitist BS. Yes, there are plenty of upper-class folks who are basically raised to believe these things, too.

            But it's perfectly possible to go to an elite school and ALSO learn to socialize without being a pretentious idiot. This guy apparently never realized that smart people could lurk among "uneducated" folks -- what kind of moron is he?? Has he never in his life had a conversation with a blue collar person who seemed intelligent? Or did he simply dismiss them out of hand because he was simply a jerk? Either way, it's not the fault of an educational institution that he didn't realize how far his head was stuck up his ass/arse until now.

            One of the most interesting people I encountered as a child was my neighbor, who was a forklift mechanic, but who spent his spare time devoted to reading and learning. Fascinating guy. No college education. (I think he eventually completed a GED in his late 20s or something, since he dropped out of high school and went to serve in Vietnam.) One of the smartest people I knew was a friend's dad who had a bachelor's degree (from an okay but certainly not top school) but never went to grad school or anything. Maybe I was just lucky to encounter these people as a kid, but I learned very early that there are intelligent, interesting people anywhere, and thus I never make assumptions about a person's intellect or whatever based on what they do or how they look or whatever. One of the coolest people I met in the past few years was a guy I hired to do my roof. He had a fascinating outlook on life.

            The author of TFA, on the other hand, was just so self-absorbed that he never realized the irrationality of his own elitism. And now he's trying to blame it on where he went to college!? Sounds to me like it was more likely something started at home while he grew up and perhaps reinforced by the type of folks he CHOSE to hang out with in college. I know the type.

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:05PM

              by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:05PM (#447150) Journal

              Actually, the author IS right about one thing -- which is that many Ivy League kids today are basically taught (through experience) that they will never fail. And that is a problem. My prescription would be to introduce the MIT freshman grading system [mitadmissions.org] to more elite schools. Basically, first semester is "pass/no record." If you get an A/B/C, you pass. If you get a D or F, there's no record on your external transcript that you even took the course.

              This sounds weird when you first hear it, but it's essential when you bring together a group of really smart kids who mostly were straight A students and likely have never been challenged to maintain that A average their entire lives. If you just shove them into the first semester at Yale or Harvard or wherever, they'll think they deserve an A. If they get an A-minus, they'll go crying to the professor's office. (Seriously. I know for a fact this happens.) What ultimately happens is that professors (who are largely rewarded for their research, not their teaching) don't want to deal with student complaints, so they just give out huge numbers of As.

              MIT long ago realized that they needed to remove some of that pressure as students adjust to new demands. Which means during the freshman year that professors can set a REAL standard that's significantly higher than what high school demanded of most of those kids. And if any student comes crying to a prof, they can just say, "Look -- it's no big deal. Just do better next time. Even if you get a C in the class, it'll just go on your permanent record as a 'pass.' Now you know what the standard is... figure out how to work, and maybe next term you can get better grades." And some kids won't, because they just aren't that good -- but now they've had a while to adjust to the fact that they may just be a C student at MIT, even if they were a valedictorian at their high school.

              Frankly, I think this one change could revolutionize the Ivy League standards. Kids might actually be challenged when they go to such schools again. They might learn some of the lessons about how their intellect isn't infallible (as the author apparently didn't realize until later in life).

              • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday December 30 2016, @04:37PM

                by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday December 30 2016, @04:37PM (#447480) Journal

                Some families have this attitude that education is only a tool. Superior education is another way of putting yourself above others. They are not interested in education for the sake of education, for the pleasure of knowledge and discovery, or for satisfying curiosity, or even keeping the nation strong. They are willing only to learn that which they can see how to apply to their ultimate goals of amassing more wealth, power, social standing, and influence. The goal is to be a winner. They do not want to take a chance on learning stuff that might not be useful. They'll grudgingly learn things they don't see as useful if they must, can sometimes be convinced to take teachers' word that something will prove to be useful. As in, what's the use of higher math, why do they need to learn algebra, trig, and calculus?

                With that kind of attitude, they can't see why they shouldn't cheat. Isn't the appearance of an education just as good? Learn just enough to fake the rest? They also can't see why they shouldn't be given an A. If education is mostly bull anyway, what's the point of not giving out an A? They get suspicious that it's something personal. That teacher has it in for them. That's how they can feel so aggrieved about not getting an A. Why don't you like me, professor? Did my parents not donate enough money to the school this year? To them, that maybe they didn't earn an A because they didn't learn the material is just the standard excuse that the teacher and school uses, it can't be the real reason.

                They don't say it, but they don't like the idea of educating everyone. It's hard enough to compete as is. One way to be a winner is to hinder others so that they lose. If all these poor kids have bad or no educations, then the elites don't have to work as hard to have a better education than the masses. That such unfairness weakens our democracy and trust in one another is too abstract a notion for them to appreciate. They don't see or care about that. It's all about winners and losers.

                Another problem is indeed "head up their arses". These families think they know better than the schools how to educate students, can't see how narrow they are, and that a broad education has value. They may have the power to bully the schools into doing things their way.

                If an elite school has a lot of children from families like that, they get a lot of pressure to water down their standards, make exceptions for this special snowflake and that special snowflake. They are also constantly pressured to teach "useful" material. If the school stands its ground, the parents may make good on threats to leave and pull their funding. The teachers who stand their ground risk being fired, risk that the school won't have their backs and will sell them out. Dead Poets Society. It's easier to do the expedient thing, and sometimes the school and/or teachers do. Worse, the elite school may share those narrow attitudes, may be run by people who think the same as these families. It does the quality of their education great harm when people like that are in charge. It can take a few years before the decline gets so bad that it becomes painfully obvious and the school has to make changes.

      • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:05AM

        by Dr Spin (5239) on Thursday December 29 2016, @10:05AM (#447024)

        They're about brainwashing the kids into believing they really are superior to their fellows in the public schools

        Of course, here in the UK, "public schools" means the elete of the private schools.

        However, an substantially bigger problem is that the entire leftist movement is engaged in convincing its supporters that they
        are inferior to pretty much everyone, so that they must be rescued by their fellow leftists - through a process of attacking
        those who, by definition are more powerful and control the world. The track record of lambs attacking wolves and leopards
        is not very good. However, "reality is an eletist conspiracy", so this does not apply to you! (I am not implying Trump will save
        anyone - except himself).

        --
        Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:39AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:39AM (#447037) Homepage Journal

        You do know rand was the exact opposite of what you just tried to pin on her, yes? She pushed merit over everything, especially pull and privilege.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:03PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @06:03PM (#447149)

        They aren't about education, no matter how much they claim otherwise. They're about privilege.

        Citation needed.

        Which school are you talking about, and what anecdote are you referring to?

        My anecdote is that I've worked with people from different schools (Ivy league through and no-name community colleges). There are definite exceptions, but in general people from more prestigious schools tend to know more about the field they are in and tend to do better. This could be self-selection bias (only more ambitious or capable people are able to enter those schools), but as a general rule I have found that to be true.

        If I were hiring to fill a software development, I'd be much more confident that somebody from M.I.T. would succeed than from Springfield Community College, and I suspect you would be as well.

      • (Score: 1) by Sumtingwong on Friday December 30 2016, @04:27AM

        by Sumtingwong (3592) on Friday December 30 2016, @04:27AM (#447275)

        Whoa, an Ayn Rand mindset? Really? I have spent the last decade or so doing dinner parties and VTCs with these peeps and they are quite far from Ayn Rand. In fact, Ayn Rand is on the widely circulated but never written list of names that will not be uttered and is met with unbridled derision if spoken.

        --
        Things are more like they are today than they ever were before.
  • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:53AM

    by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:53AM (#446922) Journal

    I have a college degree, but one of my best friends is a plumber. (Who has less problems with his computer since I installed Linux on it for him!)

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:44AM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:44AM (#447039) Homepage Journal

      Curious, which of you makes more? I know it's technically possible for my codemonkey self to make more than a good plumber but it would require a non-trivial amount more work than the plumber has to put in. I've been both is how I know this. I picked the lesser paying position because it allows me to never have to look at or touch anyone's shit again, only listen to it.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Thursday December 29 2016, @12:46PM

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Thursday December 29 2016, @12:46PM (#447056) Journal

        To me, a code monkey and plumber aren't that different as they are both demanding jobs. They are just demanding in different domains. I've done basic plumbing, sweat copper pipe, some black iron for gas lines, PVC waste lines, etc. Not too bad nor mentally challenging though you do have to have some skills, knowledge, and tools. Though, some of it is messy, uncomfortable, and dangerous.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:56PM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:56PM (#447072) Homepage Journal

          Really, I find them very similar. Both require fairly basic logic, a few skills, and a dash of creativity to do. Plumbing is by far the better job though unless you feel a specific draw to coding. The pay is comparable if not better, the hours are similar, and stress is almost non-existent unless you hit a crunch time on a specific job. The only real down-sides to plumbing are you have to actually be proven to be able to tell your ass from a hole in the ground via the apprentice/journeyman/contractor system, a much higher initial tools cost, and occasionally you have to deal with actual shit instead of constantly dealing with proverbial shit.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:50PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:50PM (#447102)

            Being able to tell your ass from a hole in the ground is not a requirement for being a plumber. When they built our house we wound up with hot water faucets on the outside of the house. Aside from that, it is not easy to outsource your plumbing needs to India.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30 2016, @01:35PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 30 2016, @01:35PM (#447399)

              My first day as an apprentice plumber I was told the three most important things that a plumber needs to know to be successful:

              1. Cold is on the right
              2. Shit flows downhill
              3. Payday is Friday

              Sounds like your plumber(s) violated Golden Rule #1.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 30 2016, @01:42PM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 30 2016, @01:42PM (#447403) Homepage Journal

              It is if you want to stay in business or not get fired.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:53AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:53AM (#446923) Journal

    Went to the bar one night, with two buddies. One, a Mexican who grew up on the streets of Chicago. The other, a college professor. Yeah - some of you are asking how in hell I got THOSE two together in the same bar, far away from the United States. PACE program - we carry a real, live professor aboard ship to teach classes.

    So, anyway, these two guys get a few beers in them, and they are talking philosophy, believe it or not. Except, they aren't really communicating. Among the comments that pass back and forth:

    Prof: "Of course you could reach across the table and deck me, but you won't."
    Carlos: "But, why won't I? What can they do to me? Back home, I would already have decked you just for telling me that I won't."

    The conversation circles around and around and around this statement. And, of course, my street tough buddy continues to drink, as does the prof. Finally, the prof flies off of his chair, and lands on his ass. Yep. He's been decked. The big dummy actually thought that he would see it coming. But, he lives in Academia, where shit like this just doesn't happen, and he didn't have a clue when things simply went to far.

    Me? I'm just laughing my ass off. I'm closer to Academia than I am to the back streets of Chicago, but I understood Carlos perfectly. I also understood the Prof. But trying to make THEM understand EACH OTHER was just hopeless. The two of them had almost nothing in common - the prof thought it would be a big deal to actually get physical, and getting physical meant nothing to Carlos.

    There have been a number of other times when the educated people come off looking pretty stupid, when they meet real life working people. They just don't "get it" when it comes to real life.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:21AM (#446957)

      "Real life". You funny runaway! Academia is real life, and so are blue collar jobs. Just different realities. Dunno why I'm bothering to point this out since we all know you're a self-assured know it all... Still, its a good point you made that no one is a master of everything (cept you of course).

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:43AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:43AM (#446985)

        "Real life". You funny runaway! Academia is real life, and so are blue collar jobs. Just different realities.

        No, the funny part is that Runaway1848 would actually have any friends! Almost as funny as the fake claim he is a veteran! ROTFLMAO!~

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by timbim on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:40AM

      by timbim (907) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:40AM (#446964)

      You should have stopped Carlos and the Prof from instigating each other before it happend.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13AM (#446972)

        Sometimes you just need to let dudes fight it out.

        Hell he could have been sitting there and Carlos laid the dude out before he knew what was going on. People do not want to talk with each other. They want to talk at each other most of the time.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:46AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:46AM (#447042) Homepage Journal

        What, and miss the funny? You need to give reason when you say something absurd like that.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday December 29 2016, @09:19AM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday December 29 2016, @09:19AM (#447017) Homepage
      The problem with their interaction began way before it reached the quoted part. They weren't having a conversation at that stage, they were having an argument.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:48AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:48AM (#447043) Homepage Journal

        Philosophy has always been arguing. If it's not how you do it, you're doing it wrong.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday December 29 2016, @12:12PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday December 29 2016, @12:12PM (#447050) Homepage
          According to the anthropic principle, this universe only exists so that you could be wrong in this argument!
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:10PM (#447076)

        No they weren't.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13PM (#447134) Journal

        Conversations can be enlightening. Arguments can be both entertaining and educational. Both of these men were senior to me by several years, it wasn't my place to discipline them!

      • (Score: 2) by cellocgw on Friday December 30 2016, @01:29PM

        by cellocgw (4190) on Friday December 30 2016, @01:29PM (#447397)

        They weren't having a conversation at that stage, they were having an argument.

        No, they were having contradiction. Argument was down the hall.

        --
        Physicist, cellist, former OTTer (1190) resume: https://app.box.com/witthoftresume
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:06AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:06AM (#446925)

    Jesus fucking christ. Now you're whining about your oh so superior education?
    Grow the fuck up. Douchebags have more intrinsic worth than you do.
    You can't hold a conversation with those you deem less educationally gifted because you're not as smart as you think you are.

    Yet another twit who confuses education with intelligence.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:21AM (#446930)

      "Douchebags have more intrinsic worth than you do."

      ????? You gonna drink that shit, or what? Maybe wash your car window with it? WTF?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:48AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:48AM (#446968)

        It got your attention, didn't it? ;)

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by rts008 on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:29AM

      by rts008 (3001) on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:29AM (#446933)

      A former roommate was fond of the phrase: "educated beyond his\her intelligence", for this type.

      • (Score: 2) by Hyperturtle on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:32PM

        by Hyperturtle (2824) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:32PM (#447118)

        This is called the "Peter Principle" in the workplace.

        It happens when someone is promoted to a role beyond their competence--hopefully not to far into incompetent territory. Unfortunately, many colleges have no problems accepting money in exchange for incompetent students. Workplaces often suffer financially, though, which has lead to strategies to help curtail it.

        Sometimes it is used to get rid of people, by promoting them away to another department where they can fail and get fired for being unable to do their job, as opposed to being fired for just being merely educated beyond their intelligence. Everyone usually can spot that guy except for the guy himself.

        You can't easily get rid of someone just for being stupid where it counts; as a result, you often need proof of the damage that person is causing if there is a paperwork requirement to go with it. To get that -- make sure that the person and their fancy education get into a position they are likely unable to succeed at (with a pay raise to go with it, to ensure acceptance--a small price to pay). Then let them fail.

        I don't want to say it happens all the time, but it happens enough that the process got a name for when someone exceeds their level of competence in the workplace.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by rayko on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:16AM

    by rayko (6096) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:16AM (#446927)

    what whiney assed bullshit

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:42AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:42AM (#446938)

    Ride the bus, hang around with black folks. You will get an education.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:56AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:56AM (#446942)

      and start wondering if that dress would look good on you.

      Ivy league? More like lily league education when some thug life types get ahold of you...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:43AM (#447012)

      I got rhythm, my dick is bigger, and I can jump now!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:31AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @03:31AM (#446950)

    Way long time ago, it seems that the school newspaper was always running confessional essays like this one.

    It was tiresome then, and it's tiresome now. Dude/girl, suck it up -- people have real problems and they don't care about your imaginary ones.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:37AM (#446962)

      Yes, I'm sure the point of the article was to elicit sympathy and get loads of gift baskets from other ivy league people. Why are you here whining about a whiny essay? Shouldn't you be handling those real problems of yours? Oh right, you're full of shit! I would say complaining anonymously over the internet about someone's essay that has zero impact on your own life is the epitome of first world problems.

      If I added a complaint about how my time is being wasted replying to your comment I think then you would see the inherent stupidity of it. But I don't feel like I'm wasting my time telling old farts to go back to their own lawns.

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:29AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:29AM (#446958)

    How about people who feel so slighted by the elite college educated folks that they have to complain about someone who realizes their own inadequacies. Now if only all you whiny bitches here could see your own flaws... If I'd seen this story without any of the comments I would have imagined that a lot of the more conservative "down with elite ivory tower" people here would have been happy to see an article like this where the "elite shitbag" finally realizes their own flaws.

    So why are you all doubling down on the criticism? Because it doesn't fit your own narrative that an elitist douchebag can realize their own douchiness and improve themselves. Your favorite insults are yanked away by such a possibility, so you follow the dear leader's example and just throw more shit.

    A sad bunch of folks that lurk around just to tear things down.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:33AM (#446959)

      How about STFU? I got couple ivy degrees and tfa gave me nausea.

    • (Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:07AM

      by Francis (5544) on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:07AM (#446969)

      Probably because folks get rather annoyed by the overinflated egos that come out of that region of the country. There are plenty of great schools out west, they just don't have the benefit of centuries of snobbery being built into their reputations.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:19AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:19AM (#446977)

      Because it doesn't fit your own narrative that an elitist douchebag can realize their own douchiness and improve themselves
      The thing is he recognizes it but does nothing about it. Which in many ways is worse. Part of that would to be humble. Instead he goes on to talk about how much better he is. If ONLY he could relate to the plebe he let into his house and have a discourse with him! Realization is the first step. But doubling down on being elitist is a step backwards.

  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:36AM

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:36AM (#446961) Journal

    Oh the poor poor elite is finally realizing he doesn't know shit about shit and flagellating himself for it. Well, self-awareness is good I suppose, and better late than never. But I'd much rather have his "problems" than mine.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 2) by mendax on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:38AM

    by mendax (2840) on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:38AM (#446963)

    I write prisoners, and what I've learned from my correspondents has told me that a prison term is an excellent education in the human condition.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:45AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @04:45AM (#446966)

    Plumbing isn't hard! Get off your ivy league ass and fix it yourself like the muggles do!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:13AM (#446971)

      It's not hard as in rocket science hard, but hard as in pain-in-the-ass (more likely in the lower back) hard.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:21AM (#446979)

        Also a good way to end up with 1ft of water in your home if you do it wrong. Some things are easy. Others take practice. I for one am well practiced in the magic art of 'fixing computer' not so much in the magic art of 'fixing cars'.

        • (Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:03AM

          by Francis (5544) on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:03AM (#446998)

          If you're lucky, if you're unlucky, you wind up with a smaller leak that leaks over a long period of time causing mold to grow all over the place.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:55AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:55AM (#447045) Homepage Journal

          Valuable education there and you didn't have to listen to some self-important tool to get it. If you end up with a foot of water on your floor though, it's because you didn't do the necessary research and use your brain first. Making proper solder joints on copper pipe is an acquired skill but most of the rest of plumbing is easy as shit; sometimes literally.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by driven on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:55PM

            by driven (6295) on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:55PM (#447086)

            Hah! Spoken like someone who either is a master at plumbing and forgets how hard it is, or someone who's barely done any plumbing at all. Plumbing is most certainly not "easy as shit", I can assure you.

        • (Score: 2) by tibman on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:53PM

          by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 29 2016, @02:53PM (#447084)

          Yup, i did that one. Then i got to learn about replacing drywall.

          --
          SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:18AM

    by krishnoid (1156) on Thursday December 29 2016, @05:18AM (#446976)

    There he was, a short, beefy guy with a goatee and a Red Sox cap and a thick Boston accent

    "Yankees suck" ?

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by aim on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:55AM

    by aim (6322) on Thursday December 29 2016, @07:55AM (#447008)

    Your education missed out on a classic: Socrates: "I know that I know nothing".

    The more you learn, the more you realise that you don't really know much of anything. I find it rather surprising it took you that long to check this.

    Have you never had to do some kind of practical-oriented internship? Over here, for a number of engineering-level types of studies, you *must* do one to even get accepted into the technical university. This typically is a basic 6 to 8 weeks course in metalworking/locksmithery, which gives you at least some grounding "in the real world".

    A few years ago I had the opportunity to follow a course in woodsworking, and have kept at it as a hobby - something like that does wonders, working with your hands (not only your mind), getting a solid result (as opposed to virtual).

    Seriously, get off your cloud and get your feet on the ground, it will do wonders. Oh, and do some sports. Mens sana in corpore sano!

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:28AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Thursday December 29 2016, @11:28AM (#447035) Journal

      Oh, and do some sports. Mens sana in corpore sano!

      You are aware that this sentence means that there should be a healthy mind in the healthy body, and was actually targeted at the athletes of the time?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 1) by aim on Friday December 30 2016, @06:55AM

        by aim (6322) on Friday December 30 2016, @06:55AM (#447329)

        Oh, and do some sports. Mens sana in corpore sano!

        You are aware that this sentence means that there should be a healthy mind in the healthy body, and was actually targeted at the athletes of the time?

        It goes both ways. A mind has a hard time staying healthy in a non-healthy body. A person should be well-rounded, at least have some basic level in pretty much anything. Of course, the definition of "basic level" and "anything" moves over time. Back in old Greece, you could get a good overview of mankind's knowledge and have time for keeping physically fit. Today's heaps of knowledge though don't mean that you should get a free pass to pig out and let your body go to waste, as your mind will likely follow.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:58AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @08:58AM (#447015)

    All he had to do was say to the plumber:

    "Jeez, da frickin pipe broke, are ya kiddin me? What a wicked pissah!"

    Doesn't the professor speak Lower Bostonian?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:19PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 29 2016, @01:19PM (#447062)

    The article is much more palatable if you read it as it would be said by Dr. Smith of Lost In Space.

    Oh, Fate! Why hast thou burdened me with such superior intellect? Would I could only converse with my noble ponderous plumber, this plenipotentiary of the plebeians, but I am vexed with this cranial capacity that I fear I appear no more than a pretentious popinjay when I attempt to engage him in discourse. Oh, my altruistic addlepated amateur, do not mistake me for the bumptious braggart; my one and only desire is to loose the shackles of my imperial inculcation enough to partake in our colloguy. Who knows but I, the lonliness incurred by my immense intellect? The pain!

  • (Score: 1) by jman on Friday December 30 2016, @11:21AM

    by jman (6085) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 30 2016, @11:21AM (#447367) Homepage
    No offense meant, but this sounds more like a case of personality than training. Also, possibly the OP has just led a fairly sheltered life.

    I never went to college, electing to join the military straight out of high school (USAF, running mainframes back in the 80's); yet, mom having taught me to read at age four, am a voracious consumer of words. In no way do I feel my education was neglected.

    That combined with natural gregariousness lets me hold conversation with just about anyone. One learns to modify their speech, adjusting to the other end of the conversation.

    I may not know how to cold-solder a pipe (electronics, no problem, but last time I tried, I nearly set the bathroom wall on fire), but could certainly carry on a conversation with a plumber on that, or many other subjects.

    If OP is feeling a little left out, I'd recommend A) reading more fiction - pulp detective novels, skiffy, even Steven King if need be - , and B) some "treatment" at his favorite watering hole.

    Just strike up a conversation with the person next to you; you'll be amazed at what you might learn, and who might become your next friend!