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posted by on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:20AM   Printer-friendly
from the can't-upset-the-real-bosses dept.

The Washington Post reports:

For the new political order taking shape in Washington, how­ever, H-1Bs aren't quite welcome. Amid promises of sweeping changes to immigration policy, President-elect Donald Trump and his choice for attorney general, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), have tabbed the program for a major overhaul, and might even scrap it altogether. In the House, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) is on the same wavelength.

Trump has described H-1Bs as a "cheap labor program" subject to "widespread, rampant" abuse. Sessions co-sponsored legislation last year with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) to effectively gut the program; Issa, a congressman with Trump's ear, released a statement Wednesday saying he was reintroducing similar legislation called the Protect and Grow American Jobs Act.

Sessions and Issa's legislation primarily targets large outsourcing companies, such as Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services, that receive the vast majority of H-1B visas and use them to deploy workers to American companies seeking to cut costs. In 2015, the top 10 recipients of H-1B visas were outsourcing firms. As recently as 2013, the Justice Department, which Sessions stands to take over, settled with Infosys for $34 million in a visa fraud case.

If they were smart they'd change the program to maximize brain-drain from other countries by making H-1B a fast-track to citizenship instead of the 6+ year wait for a green-card that it now is. Bring in the best of them rather than the cheapest of them and let them compete on equal footing rather than the indentured servitude of the current H-1B program.


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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46132348

"US Attorney General Jeff Sessions has been fired by President Donald Trump.

[...] Mr Trump said Mr Sessions will be temporarily replaced by his chief of staff, Matthew Whitaker, who has criticised the Russia inquiry.

[...] In a resignation letter, Mr Sessions - a former Alabama senator who was an early supporter of Mr Trump - made clear the decision to go was not his own.

[...] The president cannot directly fire the special counsel, whose investigation Mr Trump has repeatedly decried as a witch hunt. But Mr Sessions' replacement will have the power to fire Mr Mueller or end the inquiry.

[...] Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said he looks forward to 'working with President Trump to find a confirmable, worthy successor so that we can start a new chapter at the Department of Justice'.

Mr Graham, of South Carolina, had said last year there would be 'holy hell to pay' if Mr Sessions was ever fired."

[...] House of Representatives Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said: "It is impossible to read Attorney General Sessions' firing as anything other than another blatant attempt by President Trump to undermine & end Special Counsel Mueller's investigation."

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by NewNic on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:31AM

    by NewNic (6420) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:31AM (#452304) Journal

    US citizen here, but came into the US on H1-B visas (twice: I returned to my home country in between. )

    H1-B good or bad? Hmm.

    --
    lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:38AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:38AM (#452308)

      Since you're a citizen, you should already know the answer. If you voted for Trump, then you believe H-1B is bad.

      If you didn't bother to vote, kindly go back to your home country and stay there.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:50AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:50AM (#452354)

        By that logic more than 50% of citizens will need to go back their 'home' country because none of them are native.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:06AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:06AM (#452379)

          Citizenship grants voting rights, and naturalized citizens should vote, not neglect their right to vote.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:34AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:34AM (#452382)

            Big difference between should and you-arent-a-real-citizen-go-back-to-home-country.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:31PM (#452526)

      As intended, or as used? I can see the benefit of the former, but the system is so heavily gamed I'm not sure any amount of enforcement can fix it now.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:31AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:31AM (#452305)

    So you want to import unemployed Europeans instead of Indians? Why do you hate America?

    Bring in the best of them rather than the cheapest of them and let them compete on equal footing rather than the indentured servitude of the current H1B program.

    Oh I see. You're racist.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:37AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:37AM (#452306) Journal

      Changed "H1B" to "H-1B" (racism eliminated).

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:37AM (#452307)

      I'm the submitter.
      I am Gujarati.
      So I must be one of those self-hating indians, eh?

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:42AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:42AM (#452309)

        Well since you don't want competition from those cheap indians, then yes.

        Just like we have a saying, black people hate niggers too.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:07AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:07AM (#452387)

          The ethanol is strong in this one...

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:32AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:32AM (#452436)

          Assholes come in all colors.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:41AM (#452351)

        You are just jealous cuz hyderabdi biryani is better known than gujarati vegetarian thali.

        Anyways, if you are a vegetarian, and even more so if you are not, you owe yourself to visit Gujarat's finer restaurants and dine like the Lord Krsna.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:59AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:59AM (#452355)

        Maybe not self-hating, but you are a Gujarati - not the most popular folks in India. :)

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:48AM (#452352)
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:01AM

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:01AM (#452311)

    Bring in the best of them rather than the cheapest of them and let them compete on equal footing rather than the indentured servitude of the current H1B program.

    Bringing in the "best" is never the point of bringing in a group of immigrant laborers, whether you're talking about the bracero program back in 1942 or the various waves of European immigrants back around 1900 or the influx of H1B's from India. The game is always this: The more people there are looking for a particular kind of job, the less you have to pay those who do that job. This is simple supply-demand analysis of the labor market, not the economics version of rocket surgery. And it's also usually easier to threaten those immigrant laborers than it is people who have the ability to, say, vote for politicians that might actually change the rules to prevent employers from abusing their employees.

    Some of those newly arrived immigrants are going to be smart enough to get promoted to more senior-level positions. If the system allows for it, that will spread the salary-lowering effects to the senior-level positions as well as the junior-level positions. Management likes paying less for senior-level people too. You must remember that what you see as reduction in salaries, management calls "efficiency".

    The professions that are able to resist this sort of thing are those with professional associations and licensing requirements. For example, immigrant doctors who want to work in the US have to go through a US residency program first, which takes a while to get into and is 3-4 years before they can make full doctor money. That barrier helps keep the salaries of doctors high even in relatively low-paying specialties like pediatrics.

    And none of that is a knock on those enterprising foreigners that take advantage of the opportunities presented by these programs. My understanding is that in India, the role of the H1B program is that it's becoming a rite of passage for many young Indian men: They work their butt off in their early 20's to become the most attractive candidates from India, leave their home and families behind for their mid-20's to go to America to make their fortune, and then return in their late 20's or early 30's with the money to buy a home and arrange a good marriage and be comfortably middle-class the rest of their lives. I can't hate them for doing that.

    It's not like there aren't alternatives to correcting the alleged shortage of qualified programmers, like, say, setting up training programs, where you make it possible for people who work for the company in other capacities to learn to become programmers.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:23AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:23AM (#452321) Journal

      +5000 insightful

      We, the common people, are brainwashed to believe that immigration is good for this reason or that. But, the decision makers across the country lobby for things like H-1B for one reason only. Immigration and work programs drive wages down. Always, it's all about the money.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @05:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @05:30AM (#452374)

        People often forget that there are other types of visas for stealing the best and brightest. Want to bring someone in as an executive or management? L-1 or EB-1. Want someone really high in your company, run an entertainment or sports venue? O-1 or EB-1. Religious worker? R. From a NAFTA country? TN. Are a doctor or lawyer or the like. EB-2. And that is just for starters. However, my personal favorite is the ability to literally buy your way into the US with an EB-5, 'cause fuck the rules when you have money.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:46PM (#452553)

        but i never believed in that lie

        the problem is that i never have found a republican I could vote for that didn't perpetuate the lie. And I never found a democrat to vote for that spoke the truth about h1bs that had a chance of gaining office.

        Everyone on the ballot was about making outsourcing even better (it's already pretty great) and getting more cheap people available. There is so much lobbying on the topic that unemployed IT people like me can't afford the bribes that HCL and tata and infosys and disney and google and microsoft and... well. $5 to bernie sanders was a loss I guess.

        Hopefully The Donald will properly do something, but I still expect to see exploitation of IT workers at an even faster pace. MS's own outsourcer pretty much singlehandedly ushered in the era of no longer needing a local IT staff. Just cloud it. yeah amazon and google had their services, but when people didnt have to pay some guy to check the server LEDs now and then (and that can be a good thing to eliminate this cost), an entire industry caved in overnight.

        the h1b thing continues to kick those that had the servers pulled out from under them.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:25PM (#452500)

      For a H1B, it appears Congress managed to craft a dumb immigration policy.

      "My understanding is that in India, the role of the H1B program is that it's becoming a rite of passage for many young Indian men: They work their butt off in their early 20's ...and then return ... and be comfortably middle-class the rest of their lives."

      Aside from a little short term indentured servitude,
      That is a really good deal for the person and India and a really bad deal for the company and the US.
      The US is both bootstrapping a major competitor and killing their internal labor force.

      Immigration could/should be way better if the talented, trained folks end up in the US.

      So how did we get here?
      This started with an MBA theory that it's ok to export non-core competencies.
      But Apple appears to have exported their manufacturing supply chain?

      Sad story for the US, but the world is probably a better place.
      Kind of a situation of unintended altruism.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:22PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:22PM (#452602)

        > This started with an MBA theory that it's ok to export non-core competencies.
        > But Apple appears to have exported their manufacturing supply chain?

        Apple could export the dirty capital-intensive supply and manufacturing, because their core competency is "user interface" and programming.
        But Linux and Android brought "easy familiar user interface" to their competitors, so Apple's main assets are now customer inertia (brand value) and massive piles of cash.
        Not great of a business plan going forward.

        Kind of a standard US tech issue for the last couple decades: profit now before they catch up, even if pursuing marginally higher profit helps them catch up, because we'll be on the the magical "next thing" by then.
        What's the "next thing" now?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:07AM

    by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:07AM (#452314)

    Pretty much all of them are good people just trying to build a good life. Kinda like me.

    Seems to me the problems are:
    1) They get hired for a fraction of american engineers doing the same job
    2) They are tied to their job, essentially slave labor. I don't like my boss/hours/job? I quit. They don't like the boss/hours/job? They go back to India.

    IMHO, the solution is to ensure H1-Bs get paid the equivalent salary of the American worker. Places I've worked where I was privvy to salary info (Qualcomm) that was the case.

    Make companies pay 110% of the average american salary per position, let them stay in country long enough such that if they lost their job they can get another; BOOM problem solved.

    The other thing to keep in mind are H1-Bs have very employable skills. They aren't going on welfare, food stamps, nor joining gangs. They speak english. IMHO, perfect immigrants.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:25AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:25AM (#452323)

      1) They get hired for a fraction of american engineers doing the same job

      This one isn't quite true: H1B holders often get paid at least somewhat in the same ballpark as their US-born counterparts. That's not why employers like having them though, much more the second thing you mention - they basically can't refuse their employer anything at all.

      2) They are tied to their job, essentially slave labor. I don't like my boss/hours/job? I quit. They don't like the boss/hours/job? They go back to India.

      There has been some loosening of the rules to allow an H1B holder to change to another H1B job. This runs into a couple of practical limitations, though:
      1. You have to get the new H1B job while you're still working your old one. If your about-to-be-former employer is pushing you well past 80 hours per week (not uncommon), the odds of finding the time to do a job search are pretty minimal.
      2. Your new job has to be with an employer who is able to take on an H1B holder. Since there are more hoops to jump through than hiring US citizens, that means that your list of potential employers is much much shorter than a citizen would be able to look at. Small and mid-sized businesses in particular are probably out.

      The rules changes aren't completely useless: They make it at least possible for an H1B holder to jump from, say, Apple to Google. But H1B holders are still quite limited in their ability to resist management's attempts to eliminate any vestiges of a life outside of work as so many are wont to do.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:49AM

        by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:49AM (#452337)

        There has been some loosening of the rules to allow an H1B holder to change to another H1B job. This runs into a couple of practical limitations, though:
        1. You have to get the new H1B job while you're still working your old one.

        Pretty much ties into my second point. I've been laid off a couple times, and it typically takes 3-6 months to find a job. Let the H1-Bs have that same flexibility. If they're good enough to find a job then good for them. If not, sux2bu.

        --
        Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:15AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:15AM (#452344)

          been laid off a couple times, and it typically takes 3-6 months to find a job.

          Don't you mean it takes 3-6 years to find a job? Joblessness is not just for our homeless hero Michael David Crawford either. I know some people who lost their jobs as soon as Obama was elected and have been unemployed for the entire 8 years. For some it's the Great Depression all over again, without any hope of a New Deal yet. Apparently we learned absolutely nothing from the history of the 20th century.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:38AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:38AM (#452348) Journal

            "Don't you mean it takes 3-6 years to find a job?"

            I don't think so. It would take a little work to convince me of any such thing. There are a lot of different factors to consider, when determining how long it takes to find a new job. Among other things, the "job seeker" might be gaming the system. Prior to the mid-90's, for me to move from one job to another generally took a week or two. UNLESS I wasn't *really* looking for work. A few times, I made my mind up that I was going to sit at the house, and draw unemployment checks for a month or so. For me, back then, it didn't work out that way - people were calling me to come to work. It's hard to turn down good money, just because you would rather sit around and be lazy for a few weeks.

            I realize times have changed, and jobs aren't so plentiful today. But, if it takes YEARS to find a job, then you are doing something wrong.

            I'm not going to badmouth our Mr. Crawford here - but the man does have some problems that most people don't have. He is NOT a good example of typical job seekers in America. Hard working young people these days seem to balance two or three jobs at the same time. Jobs are available, if you really want a job. They don't PAY well, but they are available. If you live in the deep south, and you're holding out for a job that pays union scale, those jobs are few and far between. But if you want to earn a living, there is work to be done.

            I'll add here, that at my age, if it ever takes me more than about six months to find a job, I'm just going to retire. Fek the rat race, I've run on this damned wheel long enough, LOL!

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:37AM

              by anubi (2828) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:37AM (#452438) Journal

              at my age, if it ever takes me more than about six months to find a job, I'm just going to retire. Fek the rat race, I've run on this damned wheel long enough, LOL!

              Been there, did that.

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:53PM

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:53PM (#452658)

            It entirely depends on what industry you're in, what your skills/qualifications/education are, and where you live, plus of course where you're willing to relocate to.

            If you're a skilled developer living in Silicon Valley, then hell no; you can get a new job in a few days easily.

            If you're a high school graduate with no real job skills living in Bumfuck, Alabama, then yes, you're going to have a hard time finding a job.

            For these people who lost their jobs 8 years ago and have been unemployed ever since, where do they live and what do they do? Have they tried moving elsewhere for work? One thing I see a lot is people who absolutely refuse to move for work; they whine that the one company that employed people in their shitty little town folded up, but they refuse to go anywhere else because their family lives there and they really just don't want to leave. If you move to the economically prosperous metro areas (there's a bunch of them), there's lots of work available. But if your qualifications are bad, it probably won't pay well, the cost of living is higher, so you're probably going to need to get some roommates and live in a bad section of town.

            Personally, I'm constantly bombarded by emails from recruiters who found some ancient version of my resume and still want to submit me for some contract job in various places around the country. No, I don't really want to take a 6-month contract in Erie PA, but if I were really desperate, that option is available to me and I'll probably easily get at a bare minimum of $50/hour for that. Lately I've been seeing a bunch of emails for automotive infotainment software jobs in Michigan. I wish these jobs offered remote work because some of the work sounds really interesting to me, but I really don't want to live in Michigan. But as I said before, if I were to become really desperate, options like this are available.

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday January 12 2017, @09:42AM

              by anubi (2828) on Thursday January 12 2017, @09:42AM (#452891) Journal

              With real-estate costs blown through the roof by cheap loans, while house negotiation fees are still the same fixed percentage of the selling price, a couple of trades will consume your equity damned fast.

              I knew I was geolocking myself in when I bought a house.

              If I was ever going to own the thing outright, I knew I had to avoid losing all my equity to the myriad of hands that will come to me, palms up, expecting payment for the services of checking off some tick-box on some form that the banks would require.

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 12 2017, @05:09PM

                by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 12 2017, @05:09PM (#452979)

                Yep, home ownership now has gotten to be a much less attainable thing, unless you're in a position where you're making good money and (very importantly) you're extremely stable. That basically leaves out engineering and software industries. In the places where those jobs are so plentiful that "geolocking" (nice term, I like it) yourself in isn't a problem, the real estate prices are some of the highest on the planet (e.g. Silicon Valley) so they're probably not attainable by engineers anyway.

      • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:15AM

        by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:15AM (#452343) Journal

        1. You have to get the new H1B job while you're still working your old one.

        Are you sure about this? I thought that the rules changed a few years back to allow H1-B holders 30 days to find a new job.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:40AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:40AM (#452350)

          I dunno if they made that change or not.

          But, even if they did, 30-days is only going to be useful to the kind of person who could have lined up a new job before quitting anyway. Anybody quitting because they finally reached the end of their rope is probably just as screwed with 30-days to scramble for an H1B compatible employer as they would be with 0 days.

        • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:22AM

          by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:22AM (#452358)

          Hadn't heard this, but 30 days is about how long it takes me to get off my ass, update my resume, shoot a couple dozen out, and wait for a reply.

          There has been one time in my life when I got a job within 30 days of being laid off. I interviewed for a job, was pretty sure I got the job, rumor was company was going to have mass layoffs, I went to my boss and volunteered, got laid off, got 4 weeks severance, and had a job within a week.

          Best part? The jobs were across the street from each other. I walked to work, a 20 minute walk. Co-workers used to laugh at me as I'd read the newspaper to work with my headphones on.

          Moral of the story? Takes a good 3 months to find a job unless you're lucky as hell.

          --
          Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:02AM

      by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:02AM (#452340)

      I don't know why, but I feel the need to add this.

      Think '95 or so. Had a female engineer from India who drove me nuts. Why? I'd give her something that would take 6 weeks to finish but she'd do it in 3. Consistently. And it was always right. This went on for about a year, I was always scrambling to fix my schedule to give her something to do. Only issue? She didn't understand the shower/BO issue. Finally manned up and told her about 3 months in. Things were good.

      I really liked her, had I not been married at the time.....

      One morning she came into my office. She'd had a car accident last night. She didn't have a license. Nor insurance. It was her roomate's car. She didn't tell her roomate she was borrowing the car.

      I sent her to HR and never saw her again.

      --
      Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:28AM (#452346)

        One morning she came into my office. She'd had a car accident last night. She didn't have a license. Nor insurance. It was her roomate's car. She didn't tell her roomate she was borrowing the car.

        I sent her to HR and never saw her again.

        I read you, buddy. You got all the work you could out of that disposable worker, but one accident meant she suddenly became as worthless as a lame horse. It's such a shame you weren't allowed to shoot her yourself, when she needed to be put down, am I right?

        I really liked her, had I not been married at the time.....

        How badly do you miss the good old days when you could rape the slaves?

      • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:22AM

        by q.kontinuum (532) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:22AM (#452392) Journal

        One morning she came into my office. She'd had a car accident last night. She didn't have a license. Nor insurance. It was her roomate's car. She didn't tell her roomate she was borrowing the car.

        I sent her to HR and never saw her again.

        Juts out of curiosity, why would she have to lose the job over this? Mandatory decision by HR due to criminal charges for ["borrowing" a car without asking (aka stealing it) | manslaughter (if the accident was bad enough) | driving without license], leading to a revocation of her H1-B? Or voluntary decision by HR to lay off a productive worker for things she did in her private life?

        --
        Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
        • (Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Wednesday January 11 2017, @08:00AM

          by GungnirSniper (1671) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @08:00AM (#452408) Journal

          Odds are even if the client liked her, the outsourcing company did not want legal scrutiny and sent her home to avoid any problems.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @11:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @11:12PM (#452765)

          Well, the person obviously doesn't know but I'd hazard guess number one: If roommate didn't know car was being borrowed, the term for that is Grand Theft: Auto. Not the game. The felony. Person may have been arrested shortly afterwards and since she admitted the facts to boss, may have admitted the facts to HR. Even if you're not prosecuted, admitting you committed a felony is not exactly a way to stay gainfully employed. Person admits that to the police, it does not require the roommate to press charges to prosecute it as a felony, it only requires the facts of A) Roommate did not authorize car use, B) Car was taken and used. And damn skippy an employer may consider that you have willingly admitted to committing felonies as an immediately firable offense, employee's personal time or not, prosecuted offense or not. No employment lawyer will likely approach that with a ten foot pole even if you can pay them on retainer.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:06PM (#452639)

        She'd had a car accident last night. She didn't have a license. Nor insurance. It was her roomate's car. She didn't tell her roomate she was borrowing the car.

        How bad was that accident? If no other parties were hurt, couldn't she have come to an arrangement with her roommate?

        Assuming you didn't blab to HR.

    • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:01PM

      by TheRaven (270) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @12:01PM (#452465) Journal

      IMHO, the solution is to ensure H1-Bs get paid the equivalent salary of the American worker

      This is already the requirement, on paper. The problem is that it's very difficult to define the average wage for a profession with a wide variety of specialisms. The median wage for a software developer includes people with very specialised and high-demand skills (e.g. people with lots of kernel or compiler experience) as well as straight-out-of-brief-training-course web developers who can just about manage to put something together using off-the-shelf toolkits. Companies that hire a lot of H1Bs know a lot about gaming this system, defining the work in such a way that the salary is a lot lower than anyone with the skills that they want would accept.

      --
      sudo mod me up
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:09AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:09AM (#452317)

    I didn't vote for Trump, but overall he's right on H1B's. I've personally seen them used as "abusable" cheap IT labor. The "shortage" claim is bullshit at least half the time.

    And, citizens rejected for a position filled by a visa worker should have the right to both know the reason and be able to challenge the decision. Every applicant with a relevant 4 year degree or 5 years of relevant experience should get a notice of rejection, along with their challenge rights.

    The burden should be on the company to prove "shortage".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:53AM (#452330)

      experience should get a notice of rejection
      Honestly, this is just common courtesy. Instead many just leave you hanging. The only way you find out is if you notice the job was closed out. They then also go out of their way to make themselves very unavailable. No one to call no one to email. Just a random black hole.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @08:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @08:48AM (#452426)

      Every applicant with a relevant 4 year degree or 5 years of relevant experience should get a notice of rejection, along with their challenge rights.

      But not those without degrees; those people are magically unqualified every single time.

  • (Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:16AM

    by Appalbarry (66) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:16AM (#452319) Journal

    I'd say let's go full-on Libertarian anti-regulation and just let anyone, from anywhere, move into the country and do whatever job they can find.

    Or, alternately, go full-on protectionist and make the available options a) hire local or b) hire an immigrant once they've emigrated, have legal permanent residency, and are legal. If you can't find local talent to do the job you obviously need to pay more, or spend money to train someone.

    It's the grey area that's killing us.

    • (Score: 1) by YeaWhatevs on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:55AM

      by YeaWhatevs (5623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:55AM (#452338)

      It's not about ideological positions, what people want is maximized sustainable freedom. This means the positions are whatever maximizes it today, and subject to change of rules whenever we see fit. This is especially fluid on subjects like regulation and immigration where conditions not specific rules decide which policies are the right ones today.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:15PM (#452542)

      Then people from polluted deregulated countries would come to temporarily work in the high-wage "modernized" countries, taking jobs away from those who don't want to live in polluted deregulated countries. Some people will put up with 3-eyed children to have the latest toys, and that's who you would then be competing against.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:26AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:26AM (#452324) Journal

    Which countries are actively recruiting Americans to come work for them?

    If India has no reciprocity, then Indians shouldn't be eligible for any program similar to H-1B.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Snotnose on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:43AM

      by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:43AM (#452336)

      How many Americans want to live in India, regardless of what they're paid? I see India as a backwater sewer, overpopulated, stupid religions and family issues, combined with shitty class issues. Not to mention the corruption. Why would I ever want to live there?

      --
      Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:02AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:02AM (#452339) Journal

        Backwater seweer - check - Detroit
        overpopulated - check - Chicago, NYC, LA
        stupid religions - check - Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc
        family issues - check - we have a drug addict in our own family, and you?
        shitty class issues - check - we actually ran a presidential candidate who "deserved" to win

        Sounds to me like you're a victim of culture shock, to be perfectly honest. I've walked through a number of cities that seemed pretty alien. Some, I don't really want to go back to see again, others I thought were great. Some of each were right here in the US, some of each were on the European, African and Asian continents. I've not been to India, but given the chance to visit, I'd go. Offer me a two or four year contract.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:41AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:41AM (#452364)

          If you haven't been to India, please don't comment.
          People literally shit in the street and open sewers run like a creek in the road.
          Oh, there are nice areas too, but they are surrounded by the most unimaginable poverty in the entire world.
          India actually has lepers in this day and age. Sorry if this comes across as harsh; I am just saying the conditions are extreme.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @06:23AM (#452380)

            If you haven't been to Detroit or Chicago, please shut up.
            I've seen people literally shit in the street in those cities.
            I've lived in Raleigh, where I lived across the street from an open sewer.
            America is not Great.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:28PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:28PM (#452502)

              If you haven't been to Detroit or Chicago, please shut up.
              I've seen people literally shit in the street in those cities.

              Grew up and still live in Chicago. Often go to Detroit on business. Have never seen that happen in either place.

            • (Score: 2) by Taibhsear on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:10PM

              by Taibhsear (1464) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:10PM (#452541)

              Lived in Chicago my whole life. Only seen someone shit in public twice. Both times they were mentally impaired homeless people. I have friends that worked in India. From the stories they tell me there is really no comparison to the level of filth we respectively deal with (except perhaps in the government corruption).

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:40PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:40PM (#452508) Journal

            Haven't been to India - I think I said that already. But, I've been to Djibouti, Djibouti. You'll have to go pretty far to impress me with "unimaginable poverty".

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ese002 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:20AM

          by ese002 (5306) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:20AM (#452390)

          In the States, when the water is not safe to drink (e.g. Flint), it is a considered a tragedy and a crime. Political careers for anyone near are ruined.
          I'm not sure what it means when tap water is safe to drink in India. In six months of travel across most of India, I never found such a place. Not even in the wealthy tech centers of Bangalore and Pune.

          When food is unsafe in the States, which does happen every now and then, it makes the national news. Stores pull everything from their shelves that could possibly be affected.
          In India, that isn't news. Food is assumed unsafe unless known otherwise. That is why so much Indian food is overcooked. It is a safety precaution.

          While this may seem OK for those who grew up in this environment and to whom wariness of food and water is second nature, it is hard thing for those with Western origins. As a traveller with nothing to do but live and explore, I managed. It was a significant drain, though and I'm not sure it would turn out well if I had to do so while juggling a career and other stresses of modern life.

          I've travelled all over the Third World and I've never seen as much conspicuous illness as I saw in India. The Indians themselves are not immune from the health hazards of life on the Sub Continent. They are better equipped then Westerners but it still catches up to them every now and then.

          • (Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:35AM

            by q.kontinuum (532) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @07:35AM (#452394) Journal

            I wasn't in India yet, but some (most) of your description would apply for most parts of Philippines as well. I was there only for weeks at a time a couple of times yet, but I think I could manage very well. Drinking water is delivered in huge bottles, food bought in streets can be a health hazard, but if you bring some money to see a doctor in case of need, you can survive. And while many things (many vegetables, dairy products, cars, some electric tools) are more expensive than in Germany (don't know prices in USA), others (entertainment venues, houses, craftsmen, health services) are much cheaper. Given an offer to go there, getting paid the same amount I earn now, I probably wouldn't mind.

            --
            Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:40AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @09:40AM (#452439)

          But that's just one issue per place (with plenty of good places to live), while India combines them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @04:59PM (#452558)

        The same reason they move here for a few years under the H1b program -- to make enough money to return home and inure them to the things you wrote of.

        Some can go back and live as, one had told me, a maharaja, or at least with a servant or two and no arguments when convincing a pretty girl's parents to let him mate with her.

        even here I have difficulty convincing anyone of that!

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:05AM (#452341)

      There isn't any reciprocity. The American Empire has the money, and the H1Bs want the money. The H1Bs lie to get in and do the absolute minimum work required to extract the maximum amount of money from the Empire. This situation is what happens when one empire becomes dominant. Massive wealth inequality attracts barbarians who are interested in wealth extraction and nothing else.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:22AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:22AM (#452345) Journal

        You characterize the H-1B workers a little differently than I would, but you do understand what H-1B is all about. Those workers hope to exploit the empire, the empire is definitely exploiting the workers, and their home countries manage to harvest several benefits from the program. If you read TFA, you know that most of those workers return home with training provided by US companies, to promote Indian businesses, or even to start their own businesses. In effect, we have trained our own future competition, and India is quite happy about that.

        Individually, those workers range from despicable SOB's, to admirable men and women. As with any other class of people, you have to judge each one on his own merits. Let's not characterize the workers as lazy, or whatever other terms you might use for them, alright? Or, we might have to accept the world's judgement that Americans are lazy, stupid, arrogant, etc ad nauseum.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:33AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @03:33AM (#452347)

    Where the fuck is Hyderbadis going "bring it on?"

    Anyway, Hyderabadi biryani is the bomb. Absolutely the best dish, ever, no ifs, ands, buts.

    Sheeit. I want me some andhra pickle now.

    And, yeah, don't hate the folks busting ball to try to make it. Hate the slimeball CxO suits that sell out their own countrymen and women.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by xpda on Wednesday January 11 2017, @05:54AM

    by xpda (5991) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @05:54AM (#452375) Homepage

    Why on earth would the USA want to import highly educated workers, anyway? Immigrants just spend most of their money in the U.S., really cluttering up our economy with unnecessary growth. Instead, we should pay them to work in India or China. Sending the money to India and China will keep our own economy lean and mean.

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:42PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 11 2017, @02:42PM (#452509)

      One of the problems is that it isn't a permanent thing. The foreign workers are trained by Americans and then they return to their country to do the work remotely. If they stayed in the US and became citizens then it wouldn't be as big of a problem.

      --
      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by meustrus on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:44PM

    by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday January 11 2017, @01:44PM (#452485)

    If they were smart they'd change the program to maximize brain-drain from other countries by making H-1B a fast-track to citizenship instead of the 6+ year wait for a green-card that it now is.

    Reasons aside, pro-immigrant politicians on the left want all of our immigration programs to be a faster process resulting in citizenship. The reason ought to be pretty clear: American citizens raising families in America keep the money in America instead of taking it back to their real home.

    Anti-immigrant politicians on the right, meanwhile, would like to scrap the H-1B program (and others) because of the drain on jobs for existing American citizens. Again, the reason is pretty clear, and given the politics here I'm not going to bother to elaborate on this one.

    H-1B is a most evil of hybrid programs. Neither side gets what they really want. Instead, corporate assholes get what they want by playing the left's desire for immigration against the right's desire for citizenship to be exclusive. The result is worse than a quick path to citizenship and worse than closed border on virtually every metric.

    It's exactly how and why most crappy legislation gets passed. Whoever is in power tries to implement their cohesive vision, and then the minority party craps all over. The minority party never gets what they really want. Ultimately all they accomplish is making their opponents look bad for passing a crappy compromise.

    --
    If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @11:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 11 2017, @11:15PM (#452766)

    Until then, it's yet another campaign promise from someone who cant stop being a Twit.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 13 2017, @12:07PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 13 2017, @12:07PM (#453249)

    I think H1B visas are being abused so I don't have a problem with the program scope being reduced.

    But I have a strong suspicion that the real reason this is being done is because the tech leaders didn't roll over in their little tete-a-tete in NYC with Trump a few weeks back. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow a lot of the enforcement gets concentrated on companies like Apple, Facebook, IBM, and so on, and Oracle gets let off easy somehow. He's declared war on the people who stood up to him, and this is what his team came up with after mulling it over for a few weeks. Tata and the like may get hit hard too because they're brown people and it plays well with his base, but tech leaders who opposed him are the real targets here.