from the is-Howard-Stern-listening-in-on-you? dept.
A recent techdirt article says that
Thomas Fox-Brewster of Forbes is taking a closer look at a decade-plus of in-car surveillance, courtesy of electronics and services manufacturers are installing in as many cars as possible.
Following the news that cops are trying to sweat down an Amazon Echo in hopes of hearing murder-related conversations, it's time to revisit the eavesdropping that's gone on for years prior to today's wealth of in-home recording devices.
One of the more recent examples can be found in a 2014 warrant that allowed New York police to trace a vehicle by demanding the satellite radio and telematics provider SiriusXM provide location information.
In this case, SiriusXM complied by turning on its "stolen vehicle recovery" mode, which allowed law enforcement to track the vehicle for ten days. SiriusXM told Forbes it only does this in response to search warrants and court orders. That may be the case for real-time tracking, but any location information captured and stored by SiriusXM can be had with nothing more than a subpoena, as this info is normally considered a third-party record.
It's not just satellite radio companies allowing cops to engage in surreptitious tracking. OnStar and other in-vehicle services have been used by law enforcement to eavesdrop on personal conversations between drivers and passengers.
In at least two cases, individuals unwittingly had their conversations listened in on by law enforcement. In 2001, OnStar competitor ATX Technologies (which later became part of Agero) was ordered to provide "roving interceptions" of a Mercedes Benz S430V. It initially complied with the order in November of that year to spy on audible communications for 30 days, but when the FBI asked for an extension in December, ATX declined, claiming it was overly burdensome.
The 2001 case didn't end well for law enforcement. It wasn't that the court had an issue with the eavesdropping, but rather that the act of listening in limited the functionality of the in-car tech, which the court found to be overly-burdensome.
[...] Law enforcement may find encryption to be slowing things down in terms of accessing cell phone contents, but everything else -- from in-car electronics to the Internet of Things -- is playing right into their hands.
-- submitted from IRC
Related Stories
The case against James Bates, an Arkansas man and Amazon Echo owner charged with first-degree murder, has been dropped by prosecutors:
Arkansas prosecutors have dropped their case against James Bates, whom they had charged with first-degree murder partly with the help of evidence collected by an Amazon Echo smart speaker. On Wednesday, a circuit court judge granted their request to have the charges of murder and tampering with evidence dismissed.
The prosecutors declared nolle prosequi, stating that the evidence could support more than one reasonable explanation.
The move marks a curious end to a still more curious case, which had revolved around the role played by a personal assistant device that's supposed to begin recording as soon as someone says its wake word — "Alexa," in this case — in its presence.
Previously: Police Seek Amazon Echo Data in Murder Case
Amazon Continues to Resist Requests for "Alexa" Audio Evidence in Arkansas Murder Case
Can Amazon Echo Help Solve a Murder? Police Will Soon Find Out.
Related: Law Enforcement Has Been Using OnStar, SiriusXM, to Eavesdrop, Track Car Locations
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dyingtolive on Friday January 20 2017, @06:01PM
I'm not surprised about OnStar, but Sirius? I'm surprised their tech allows for transmit, though I probably shouldn't have been. Wonder if this applies if you don't have a subscription, and if you're not currently using it.
I guess this makes a case for the next vehicle being a early 90s truck. I suppose I'll need a garage too. Damnit.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by butthurt on Friday January 20 2017, @06:44PM
Currently, SiriusXM is like this (Wikipedia link added by me):
Vehicle-based emergency calls: automatic
crash notification (ACN), advanced AACN,
In-vehicle MayDay (ecall) button, stolen
vehicle recovery.
24x7 call centers in Irving, Texas; Provo,
Utah
Two agents on emergency calls
One interfacing driver
One interfacing PSAP [wikipedia.org]
-- https://web.archive.org/web/20161222191700/http://calnena.org/Meetings/2016/SiriusXMPPT.pdf [archive.org]
According to the same presentation, they are considering for the "next generation":
Use of onboard cameras
[...]
Number of passengers/presence of child
[...]
Vehicle-to-Vehicle, V2I Communications
Cordon off incident areas
Notify of approaching responder vehicle
[...]
•Heart Rate Monitoring, can notify 911 if a
driver’s heart rate changes rapidly
•Driver alertness monitor with rest
recommendation messages
•Alcohol detection
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dyingtolive on Saturday January 21 2017, @02:13AM
I note opt-out is mysteriously absent from that list of upcoming features.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 5, Informative) by EvilSS on Friday January 20 2017, @06:49PM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday January 20 2017, @06:25PM
At least it only happens in (somewhat) newer cars. Imagine the scandal if people had been carrying tracking beacons on their very person for decades... [thecipherbrief.com] They'd be up in arms and demanding that heads roll, right?
(Score: 2) by edIII on Friday January 20 2017, @09:08PM
I didn't even read the link and I know you are talking about cell phones.....
Yeah, it's funny to be up in arms about your car when the cell phone in your pocket is the PRIMARY surveillance tool.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @06:37PM
I'm actually trying to buy a car. It's horrifying.
Everything comes with Bluetooth and cellular. I got one place to ask the service department if there might be a fuse I could just pull, and they said no. Hey, I remember the Jeep Cherokee that was hacked into. No thanks.
Looking at: VW Golf, Subaru WRX, Fiat 500 POP, Fiat 500 L, Toyota Sienna, Kia Soul...
(last time I picked a 2001 VW Passat wagon w/ Torsen differential -- AWD and decent acceleration are preferred)
What should I get? Help!
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday January 20 2017, @06:44PM
My plan was perfect. My Nissan Versa is actually climbing in value!
I understand that the integrated systems mean that fuses can't be pulled. But Shirley there's an antenna wire somewhere which can be snipped.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 21 2017, @02:23AM
Locate microphone. Snip, install toggle switch.
The GPS chip would be more problematic if it is soldered to a board that does other things. If not though, you could figure out which leg supplies power and do the toggle switch thing again.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Unixnut on Friday January 20 2017, @06:51PM
Cheap East European cars, or Chinese. Things like the Dacia are still relatively "electronic crap" free because they are aimed at the budget conscious buyer, who isn't looking for fancy stuff. Not sure if they are sold in the US though (assuming you are in the US).
Failing that, stick to cars from the 90s and 80s. Technology has advanced to the point where cars such as those can be maintained for a long time relatively easily. Also helps that cars during that period were better built (designed to last, rather than be consumable fashion statements on wheels to be replaced every 3 years like modern ones).
If however in future we reach the point that IC cars are banned and only electric cars are allowed, we will be in trouble, because no electric car has been built without all the electronic spyware. Not sure what to do in that future scenario, but I think we have quite a few decades before IC car bans become realistic. By then maybe everything has collapsed and it won't matter anymore.
(Score: 3, Informative) by butthurt on Friday January 20 2017, @07:12PM
> [...] no electric car has been built without all the electronic spyware.
I disagree.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/business/bob-beaumont-who-popularized-electric-cars-dies-at-79.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday January 20 2017, @08:41PM
Nice! Thanks for the link. Although I guess I should have said "modern electric cars". With its design, and only 40mph top speed, I don't think that would even be allowed on public roads here in Europe. Still, very nice.
I guess if push comes to shove people can build/assemble their own cars, but that is going to be one hell of a niche. Most people would not want to do anything like that.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Saturday January 21 2017, @03:06AM
> [...] I guess I should have said "modern electric cars".
The Nissan Leaf is modern, yet in the USA the cellular network that earlier models used for its telematics is being dismantled:
Just got a letter from Nissan. I assumed it was about the security flaws in NissanConnectEV (formerly Carwings).
Instead, it detailed once again, how At&T's 2G network is going away at the end of 2016.
-- https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/48d2mb/nissan_will_pay_for_upgrade_once_2g_is/ [reddit.com]
The Leaf has also been sold in Europe and Japan; perhaps similar events will occur there as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf [wikipedia.org]
Of course, any self-respecting surveillance state will operate "stingray" (cell site simulator) devices.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/08/23/baltimore-police-stingray-cell-surveillance/31994181/ [usatoday.com]
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/dec/02/virginia-state-police-release-cellphone-surveillan/ [muckrock.com]
> I guess if push comes to shove people can build/assemble their own cars [...]
I'm under the impression that it's more common for people to retrofit ICE cars for electric operation. Kits are sold for doing so, or one can acquire the parts separately.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Saturday January 21 2017, @09:40AM
Very interesting stuff, thanks for the links!
> The Nissan Leaf is modern, yet in the USA the cellular network that earlier models used for its telematics is being dismantled:
Yes, but I am sure that if push comes to shove it can be re-enabled on a local level. Like you mentioned, you can get portable cell simulators. However that at least will require the police to put some effort into tracking you, so more likely to be used if they already have a case against you, rather than blanket simlation
> I'm under the impression that it's more common for people to retrofit ICE cars for electric operation. Kits are sold for doing so, or one can acquire the parts separately.
Good point, that is quite likely, although ICE cars have issues with conversion, such as battery placement. Due to the lower energy density of batteries, you need more volume of space in the car to reach an acceptable range than the fuel tank occupied.
However I have already seen "future car" designs which are basically in kit form, and you decide how you want it to look. Such as this one:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a16726/local-motors-strati-roadster-test-drive/ [popularmechanics.com]
Somehow I think it will be easier for people to buy such kits, assemble and get their kind of custom body built for it, then it is to retrofit cars that really were not designed for such power trains originally.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @07:23PM
You build a ~~wall~~ cage around your car and move like this all the time.
(Score: 3, Troll) by Grishnakh on Friday January 20 2017, @07:58PM
Also helps that cars during that period were better built (designed to last, rather than be consumable fashion statements on wheels to be replaced every 3 years like modern ones).
Wow, that's one hell of an idiotic statement. Cars these days last far longer than cars ever did in the 80s. They also protect you far better in a crash, accelerate much faster, and get better fuel economy. Cars didn't last to 250k miles back in the 80s; now it's not that unusual (for a 00s car; the 10s cars aren't quite old enough).
(Score: 2, Troll) by Unixnut on Friday January 20 2017, @08:38PM
> Wow, that's one hell of an idiotic statement. Cars these days last far longer than cars ever did in the 80s.
Disagree completely. Look at an 80s Mercedes, compared to a post 2000's one. If you have taken one of them apart (I have taken apart both), the earlier model is far better built. Likewise for BMWs and Porsche's of the era. I guess if you buy a shit car in the 80s it won't last long, but then, if you buy a shit car now it won't last long either.
In an effort to reduce costs, extract profit, and build in obsolescence, cars now are built far more poorly than old cars. This is a fact that anyone who has worked in the automotive industry has told you, it isn't even a secret really.
Coupled with the fact the most common failure in cars is the electrics, the more electrics and computers in cars, the sooner they will fail.
Go to places in the middle east or Africa, you will see cars from the 70s and 80s going strong. I doubt you will see many of the modern cars last that long.
> They also protect you far better in a crash, accelerate much faster, and get better fuel economy. Cars didn't last to 250k miles back in the 80s; now it's not that unusual (for a 00s car; the 10s cars aren't quite old enough).
This is all irrelevant to my point. Although for a given horsepower, they accelerate much slower, because they are much heavier than earlier cars (due to the mandated safety features). They are also harder to stop because of the extra weight, hence why even small cars now need seriously big brakes to maintain the same stopping distance.
I will also point out that one of the reasons early cars are more likely to outlast the later ones is because they are simpler and cheaper to maintain and repair. The technology in them is now commonplace and cheap, so easy to repair and maintain.
Also, 80-90s cars were (mostly) built by humans, so can be disassembled and worked on by humans. Modern cars were built by robots, and are as such harder for humans to work on. Hence the rise in garage labour costs. Things that would take less than an hour take multiple hours on a modern car. Sometimes easier to just pull out a unit, chuck it and buy a new one, than actually get and replace the faulty part out of it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @08:50PM
My favorite example of cars that cannot be worked on easily was my boss's truck. To replace the serpentine belt (or was it the timing belt?), you had to remove the entire engine. The gap between the engine and the compartment was an inch and the belt was an inch and a half. Suffice to say, the bill he got from the shop to repair the belt was a bit more than he was expecting.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Grishnakh on Friday January 20 2017, @10:25PM
Disagree completely. Look at an 80s Mercedes, compared to a post 2000's one. If you have taken one of them apart (I have taken apart both), the earlier model is far better built. Likewise for BMWs and Porsche's of the era. I guess if you buy a shit car in the 80s it won't last long, but then, if you buy a shit car now it won't last long either.
80s German cars are not representative of all cars worldwide, particularly not American cars.
Although for a given horsepower, they accelerate much slower,
Irrelevant. No one makes cars with 90 horsepower these days. Back in the 80s, that was pretty normal for an American compact. These days, a typical compact has at least 150 horsepower, which was considered a lot back in the 80s. The faster ones now have 200+HP, which back then was Corvette territory.
They are also harder to stop because of the extra weight, hence why even small cars now need seriously big brakes to maintain the same stopping distance.
Incredibly stupid. Cars have bigger brakes not only because of higher weight, but also increased standards.
I will also point out that one of the reasons early cars are more likely to outlast the later ones is because they are simpler and cheaper to maintain and repair. The technology in them is now commonplace and cheap, so easy to repair and maintain.
Incredibly stupid. Obviously, you've never had to deal with the rat's nest of vacuum hoses that were commonplace on 80s cars.
You're an absolute idiot. You can see it with cars on the road and how far cars actually go. Cars in the 70s and 80s did NOT last over 100k miles routinely; I was there and I remember. You sound like someone who believes the Earth is 6500 years old despite all available evidence.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Unixnut on Saturday January 21 2017, @02:19AM
> 80s German cars are not representative of all cars worldwide, particularly not American cars.
Well, to be honest I never worked with American cars, maybe they are really poorly built in general or something. Perhaps modern American cars really are better than the old ones. Other makes that I can say has improved since the 80s is Fiat and Lancia. Their cars really rusted easily due to lack of protection (they didn't bother to galvanize the shells).
And my point to the original poster was to buy a decent 80s or 90s car (my preference for German, but Swedish and Japanese are good too) because they are cheaper to keep running, and are overall built better, if with less fancy gadgets and luxuries. You can get really good second hand models, with the benefit that a lot of them actually are appreciating in value, rather than depreciating in value.
> Irrelevant. No one makes cars with 90 horsepower these days. Back in the 80s, that was pretty normal for an American compact. These days, a typical compact has at least 150 horsepower, which was considered a lot back in the 80s. The faster ones now have 200+HP, which back then was Corvette territory.
Well yes, it is about as irrelevant to the conversation as your post on the matter as well, which is where it came from.
Always amazed me how Americans squeeze so little power out of such large engines though. I get that there is a lot of torque, but you run out of ooomph very quickly in the rev range.
> Incredibly stupid. Cars have bigger brakes not only because of higher weight, but also increased standards.
Oh look, an insult. Brake diameter is a variable in the function of stopping power, which are matched to the curb weight of the car. Of course that isn't the only reason (I never said it was), but it is the main reason.
Of course standards have improved, but more in line with things like ABS and electronically controlled braking. Still doesn't change the fact that the bigger discs on cars are primarily due to their larger weight. That is why earlier cars could get away with smaller disk brakes than the same models later. Modern cars are really heavy.
> Incredibly stupid. Obviously, you've never had to deal with the rat's nest of vacuum hoses that were commonplace on 80s cars.
Oh, another insult, Actually I have dealt with them. Many actually, on cars from the 70's to the mid 00's. Vacuum hoses are really quite simple, never found them that taxing to deal with. Also hose is cheap! I found it usually easier to just replace entire sections of vacuum hose rather than find where is is leaking from. The later cars were more of a PITA because the vacuum houses were routed under stupid plastic covers, and packed really tightly in stupid places because there is so much stuff in an engine bay nowadays.
Again, don't know about US cars, maybe their vacuum setups were nuts.
> You're an absolute idiot. You can see it with cars on the road and how far cars actually go. Cars in the 70s and 80s did NOT last over 100k miles routinely; I was there and I remember. You sound like someone who believes the Earth is 6500 years old despite all available evidence.
Right, and more insults. You really could do without them. They don't add to the conversation, and quite frankly do more to put your posts in disrepute than affect me. They just make it look like you are lashing out at me personally to substitute for your lack of a decent argument.
I work a lot with cars, and due to the nature of my business, I see cars from the entire spectrum. There is no denying that cars from the 80s are the easiest to maintain and repair. They were assembled mostly by humans, they are simple, they are basic.
They are easier to maintain and keep on the road for the same reason a go kart would be even easier to maintain and keep on the road (if they were road worthy). This is just plain obvious to anyone who has done engineering, the simpler a system is, the fewer parts that can go wrong, the easier it is to maintain and keep running, so the longer it will last.
And a lot of those 80s cars that came into the shop have seen >100k miles. One '79 Porsche came in with 237k miles on it, which I thought impressive considering sports cars are not really built for reliability but rather performance. Car did need a top end rebuild though to bring its output power back to original.
90s-00s cars are already getting a bit tricky, more robotic assembly, more interconnected electronics and wiring to have to debug. Already turning into a rats nest of wiring and ECUs, all needing special "manufacturer computers" which are nothing more than basic laptops with crappily made software, sold for stupidly large sums of money (give me the vacuum hoses any day instead).
Latest cars I have been working on have been 2005, and already at this point you can't do much to "repair" the car, only buy and replace units and segments. Not worth the time really. Modern cars becoming disposable really. I don't think I will be looking at working on anything newer soon, the ongoing costs for certification and getting the software to debug and trouble shoot is getting too much for an independent. For the prices I would have to charge for that kind of work, people can just go to an authorised dealer. So I may well switch over to just working on the older gen cars, start a restoration business maybe. Will see how things go.
I am not sure if you are overestimating how hard older gen cars are to work on, or underestimating how hard and expensive modern cars are to work on, but I think it is one of those two.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 21 2017, @10:54PM
Americans squeeze so little power out of such large engines because we aren't taxed on displacement. If we want more power, we get a bigger engine. It's affordable and physically sensible. In places like France and Japan, that'd cost you in tax, so instead you do everything possible to get power out of a small engine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 21 2017, @07:26AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias [wikipedia.org]
Some cars from that era were the 1%. They are actually good cars. But the majority of cars are junk even today.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Saturday January 21 2017, @09:51AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias [wikipedia.org]
Yes I know that well, but I am talking about buying an 80s-90s car now, which means you are picking from the reliable survivors already. We have already passed the survivorship filter.
Some cars from that era were the 1%. They are actually good cars. But the majority of cars are junk even today.
I quite agree, but the same applies today. 90% of the cars built in the last few years won't make it to 20+ years. Some due to just not being built that well, others because they have been written off in accidents.
Everything goes through that cycle, even modern cars. Once had a modern 911 brought to the shop that had gone completely haywire, must have been less than a year old. In the end we had it shipped for replacement under guarantee, but goes to show that every era of manufacture has its lemons.
However I suspect that if in future we look back, we will see that a larger number of modern cars will be filtered out over time than equivalent early generational models for the same year.
For the simple reason that they are much more complicated, have more to go wrong, need expensive specialist equipment to maintain and are harder for humans to work on. This makes it harder to enthusiasts to keep the cars going, and pushes up the costs for garage work, which means after a certain time it will be cheaper to scrap the car then pay the large bills for people to work on it, especially if it is an independent garage.
We are already at the point where when a new gen car is out of warranty, people want to sell it and get a new one just to avoid the massive maintenance and repair costs for even minor things.
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday January 21 2017, @03:08AM
All my '80's vehicles lasted at least 500,000kms before rusting out. Probably the same with my '70's vehicles but as their odometers only went up to 99,999 it's hard to say. The exception was the American truck where the rivets holding the frame together failed at about 400,000 kms as well as the firewall where the master clutch was attached coming apart (fucking thing was glued together). Engine was still good though. The American vehicle amazed me with the crappy design decisions that went into it after only owning Japanese vehicles, fuckers ran the brake light wire up the steering column (for the 4 way flashers) and through a u-joint. Fun to fix.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @08:53PM
Why not take a nice morning drive? [2112.net]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @10:06PM
East European stuff got laughed out of the US market with the Yugo. Perhaps a few parts might be sourced from East Europe, but we don't get East Europe brands at all. The closest is Germany. The same goes for China; the closest is South Korea.
Anyway, the point of buying a car is because my old one is falling apart. I don't want a used car. I don't want crap with 3 cylinders, piddly little 4-bolt wheels, and 1-star crash ratings.
Aside from this issue, decent cars: 2017 Volkswagen Golf Type R, 2017 Subaru WRX STI... get my drift?
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Saturday January 21 2017, @02:38AM
East European stuff got laughed out of the US market with the Yugo. Perhaps a few parts might be sourced from East Europe, but we don't get East Europe brands at all. The closest is Germany. The same goes for China; the closest is South Korea.
Yeah, but most East European stuff is just German now with a different badge and fewer luxuries (and lower price tag). The days of communists attempting to build and sell tin cans disguised as cars in the West went with away with the wall and the USSR in the 1990's.
However if you don't have those brands there, then not much point considering it, so moving on...
Anyway, the point of buying a car is because my old one is falling apart. I don't want a used car. I don't want crap with 3 cylinders, piddly little 4-bolt wheels, and 1-star crash ratings.
Aside from this issue, decent cars: 2017 Volkswagen Golf Type R, 2017 Subaru WRX STI... get my drift?
Yeah I get your drift, so no second hand German bruisers :)
However you won't find a modern upmarket car that isn't totally integrated with electrics now. The systems are so closely intertwined into the car that you can no longer disable/remove say, tracking or Internet connectivity from the car without disabling the engine and everything else. Not to mention the push for DRM on cars, that will add even more fun in future.
The only market segment that isn't wired up the wazoo is the "cheap and cheerful" bottom end (Your Skoda's and little Fiats and Peugeots, and even they have the basic ICE with bluetooth and possibly touch/voice interfaces). However piddly engines and low power is par for the course for this segment, so not meeting your needs either.
If your needs must all be met, then you will most likely have to make peace with the direction the market is going when it comes to the electrical installation. I guess if you really are inclined, you can look online to see which car is the most hackable, then see if you can reflash/modify/disable the bits of the car you don't want.
I don't know around the USA, but here in Europe VW's are that car. A large aftermarket and shared parts bin means you can find all kinds of mods that add features, remove features and modify features. I have not looked at post 2010 cars, but I see no reason VW aficionados would have slowed down their modding.
Might be a direction to look into, see if the car is moddable enough to meet your needs and remove the features you absolutely do not want. Of course in addition to whatever else you see as important in your purchase, after which you can see if the car is for you.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Saturday January 21 2017, @09:56AM
Oh, and one more thing. if you do consider a VW, stay away from the TSI engines. As an example of modern cars not being built as well as old ones, VW removed a piston ring from each cylinder compared to old engines, presumably to reduce costs.
The FSI survives this longer because it is an N/A, but the TSI is under more stress because of forced induction. This makes the TSI engined cars leak oil and break down very quick. Oil burning from the engine already started after 2 or so years of ownership from new, and you need to rebuild the engine, which isn't cheap.
The other posters recommendation for the focus-rs is also not too bad, they are decent cars based on reviews. However have not worked on one yet, so can't really give advice about it (which I guess is a good sign, when your job is to fix broken cars).
(Score: 1) by EETech1 on Saturday January 21 2017, @07:18AM
http://www.ford.com/performance/focus-rs/ [ford.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 21 2017, @11:20PM
Oh, I wish... but I simply don't fit in currently-sold Ford cars. (didn't check trucks) I'm tall, but nothing strange: 6'2" (188 cm)
It was a bit of a shock. I am fond of Ford controls and fond of the company. I hit my head in the Taurus, Focus, Fiesta, and I think one or two more. The roofs are lower (fuel efficiency?), the inside surface lower still due to sunroofs, and they even add handles to the A piller. Speaking of that, who needs a handle to climb into a small car, and can such a person see over the dashboard or reach the pedals? In any case, I just don't fit in any Ford car.
(Score: 1) by EETech1 on Sunday January 22 2017, @12:12AM
Watch the review from top gear. I seem to recall them saying how much headroom it had.
They couldn't say enough about how awesome it is.
I guess the best way to find out is to test drive one!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Webweasel on Friday January 20 2017, @11:29PM
Agreed, look for a low mileage Toyota or Honda that has all its service stamps.
Look after that car and it will do 250, possibly 500k miles.
My GT4 is coming up for 150k miles and still pulls as strong as ever. I spend on average about £500 a year on maintenance, but I like to go for a full service rather than an interim every time, as I love my car.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday January 20 2017, @07:56PM
Everything comes with Bluetooth and cellular.
No, it doesn't.
My 2015 Mazda3 has Bluetooth, but no cellular. Lots of other cars are like this these days; it's just the OnStar cars (and some others) that have cellular modems. On everything else, they just use Bluetooth, and rely on you to pair your phone with the system for it to have a data connection with the outside world. Don't pair a phone with it and there's no way anyone can hack in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 22 2017, @03:29PM
Some of this is the automakers responding to laws that mandate hands-free cellular usage while driving. I'm looking to replace my 10 year old car, and I will actually be looking *for* in-car bluetooth as it's now required where I live if I need to take a call while driving. As more of those sorts of laws get passed, I expect will become even harder to find cars without some form of bluetooth already installed.
(Score: 2) by jdccdevel on Friday January 20 2017, @10:38PM
My suggestion is to buy a aftermarket stereo to install in your new car.
It's my understanding that bluetooth, cellular, GPS, XM Radio, etc (I.e. everything you might be worried about except on-star) are all built in to the stereo, so replacing it with an aftermarket system should be a good option.
It sounds like what you're most concerned about is the hacking issue. Aftermarket stereos can be installed without any can-bus integration, and would be completely independent of the other vehicle systems in that configuration.
You may have to live without some nice features of your new car though. My '14 Subaru has a back-up camera, fuel economy tracker, and a maintenance reminder integrated that I would miss.
If you trust the aftermarket stereo to be less hackable than the stock one, You may be able to get some of that functionality back with the right after-market stereo wiring harness.
As a bonus, nice stereos are usually very expensive options on new cars, so the car itself will probably be cheaper, and the third party stereo will probably sound better anyway.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday January 20 2017, @06:50PM
The nice thing about 1984 (did I really just write that?) is that Big Brother is actually open about what the government is doing. TV screens that broadcast two-way in your house. Giant banners with "Big Brother is watching!" everywhere.
Orwell seemed to think that dystopia would be about government scaring people into submission through surveillance. Alas, he didn't foresee what has actually developed through hidden surveillance, which is far worse, since it seems most of the public simply doesn't care.
I mean (to parrot the standard reply) -- "If you aren't doing anything wrong, why should you care if the police are monitoring where you drive or what you talk about in your car?"
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Friday January 20 2017, @07:08PM
I think I've already popped enough blood vessels over that standard reply...
There is a very easy fix, just start asking people about their sex lives. Then point out that even if they don't directly talk about it the algorithms can track their behavior patterns and come up with scary accurate predictions. I also have had luck with the insurance example where they'll track your grocery shopping, health care data, and driving patterns in order to adjust your rates. Or your boss / interviewer being able to buy a report on you detailing your political/sexual/religious orientations. Or mention the Chinese "social score" they've been rolling out. Do you have some friends who are struggling to get by, well how would you like that affecting your credit score? Friends with people who can barely make ends meet, nope not hiring that guy!
If someone doesn't respond properly to one of those examples then inform them they're the type of idiot that let the Nazis run over Europe. First they came for...
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Friday January 20 2017, @08:19PM
And their following argument: "Pfft. China? Sure, in COMMIE CHINA maybe. That'd never happen here."
Then I respond, "Riiight..." while adjusting the tinfoil.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 4, Funny) by Zz9zZ on Friday January 20 2017, @10:18PM
Hell we started it with the all powerful CREDIT SCORE!
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Saturday January 21 2017, @02:11AM
Oblig Brazil Quote: Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating.
:(
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @07:16PM
I think everyone likes to trot out 1984. When this is a better analogy for what our world is turning into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World [wikipedia.org] We let them do it because we want the quick cool thing.
This bit from the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World#Comparisons_with_George_Orwell.27s_Nineteen_Eighty-Four [wikipedia.org] Sums up the difference of the two books.
If you like to trot out 1984 you really should read the mirror piece Animal Farm. Orwell liked to play with particular government orders and take them to their extremes to see why they would break or not be a good thing. I think people sort of missed his messages and grabbed onto the trappings of his stories. In 1984 he created the surveillance state as it was a quick way to create an ever reaching totalitarian state. In Animal Farm he created the natural cliques that form out of humans to show why Communism eventually leads to similar totalitarian ideals. Most science fiction is like this. You create a fantastic world that is based on cool 'ideas' that from the 1930/1940s were being created by science (hence science fiction). But the story was the important bit. The exploration of what people would do in that new world created by the science. It is like star trek. The good episodes were the ones where they did not focus on the technology but on the people and how they were affected by it. Or something like the matrix which is supposed to be about a bunch of hackers stuck in a weird world. There is maybe 3 or 4 scenes in all 3 movies where they are in front of a computer doing something. The story was not about hacking it was about the humans stuck in the computer.
"If you aren't doing anything wrong, why should you care if the police are monitoring where you drive or what you talk about in your car?"
To this I would state. Why are you not following the law of the land and getting a warrant to do so?
(Score: 4, Informative) by bob_super on Friday January 20 2017, @07:30PM
From the Wiki
> Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance.
> Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some
> equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy.
Pretty impressive from someone who couldn't imagine how, courtesy of the Internet, people would actually do it to themselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @08:13PM
I find this puts it into perspective too https://xkcd.com/1227/ [xkcd.com]
We look upon the past and think 'how did they do it without xyz'?! When the reality is they did not even care because they did not know about it. When what we did with the internet is take the very systems they built re-imaged them and smashed them into 1 interface HTTP. With the internet we just have more immediacy of what is going on. Where as it used to take a modicum of physical work.
Take for example video games. I collect them. I have about 2500 purchased copies and about 30k in 'warez'. No way I can play all of them. Out of each generation of games there is a tiny handful that are amazing 'must play' games and a few 'hidden' treasures no one played because they just did not get sold much for whatever reason. There are however hundreds of games in each generation that are not worth playing/owning at all. We look back at say the NES and think of Zelda or Super Mario Bros most were not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @11:08PM
Are you saying Eric Bristow's Darts was not a classic? How DARE you, sir!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @11:23PM
i doubt huxley cared. he was probably just using insider knowledge(his brother or somebody was working on the shit he put in his book) to make a buck/get notoriety. maybe make himself feel better about his family being involved in the domestication of the human animal.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday January 20 2017, @10:02PM
Yes, obviously Brave New World has interesting comparisons with today's world too, especially the apathy which I invoked in my post. So thanks for the connection.
But a primary focus of 1984 is the surveillance state, while that's less of a focus in Brave New World. (The whole world of Brave New World is incredibly managed, of course, but the gist of the book's themes are around individualism vs. consumerism, and of course the whole worship of the Ford assembly line ideal.) The reason I brought up Orwell was to make a closer connection to the concerns of TFA, which are about invasive government surveillance. As for Animal Farm, as an allegory for the Russian Revolution (and its aftermath), I see less relevance to the present discussion... though obviously it too is a great book.
And by the way, I didn't really mean to imply that Orwell couldn't conceive of other possible dystopian developments. I was sort of riffing off of the plot of 1984 to make a point about how these stories of increasing surveillance come up almost every week... and despite that fact that many people use the phrase "Big Brother" the reaction is very different than Orwell's world... and nobody seems to care.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 20 2017, @07:11PM
OnStar should copy a feature of the Amazon Echo.
Amazon Echo has a "privacy" button. (eg, Mic or Mute button)
OnStar should have a similar feature.
On the Amazon Echo, pressing this button alerts Amazon that you are about to discuss something especially interesting. OnStar should have this as well.
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday January 20 2017, @08:45PM
> Amazon Echo has a "privacy" button. (eg, Mic or Mute button)
This would help if it was a hard cut off, but I suspect like everything else nowadays, it is just wired to a pin for a "soft mute" like those webcam "powered on" LEDs that you could disable in software.
Just a false feeling of security that.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday January 20 2017, @08:57PM
The actual security is false. But the feeling of security is genuine.
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday January 21 2017, @10:29AM
On the Amazon Echo, pressing this button alerts Amazon that you are about to discuss something especially interesting. OnStar should have this as well.
That way they can forward it to their priority listening service.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Friday January 20 2017, @11:06PM
We just need to find a bored billionaire who cares about privacy! Let's find one and bankroll the various open computing efforts, along with building fully featured yet security conscious vehicles. Hardwired switches for everything whoooo.
~Tilting at windmills~