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posted by martyb on Friday February 10 2017, @02:23PM   Printer-friendly
from the pressing-for-change dept.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has accused one of his employees of being a union agitator working on behalf of the United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW):

Earlier today, a Tesla employee wrote a post on Medium alleging that he and fellow Tesla employees at the company's Fremont, California manufacturing facility endure "excessive mandatory overtime," lower-than-average pay, and frequent injuries. Tesla CEO Elon Musk responded to the claims in a series of private Twitter messages to Gizmodo by calling the employee, who wrote under the name Jose Moran, a pro-union agitator working on behalf of the United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW).

"Our understanding is that this guy was paid by the UAW to join Tesla and agitate for a union," Musk says. The Tesla chief goes on to call Moran an employee of UAW, working on behalf of the union and not Tesla. When asked about his stance on unions, Musk describes Tesla as a "union neutral" company.

Meanwhile, Reuters reported that Tesla has paused production at its California assembly plant to prepare for the production of the company's long-awaited Model 3 sedan.


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How Much has NASA Downplayed SpaceX's Accidents? 12 comments

An editorial by Jason Rhian discusses NASA's handling of the Orb-3 (Orbital Sciences) and CRS-7 (SpaceX) accidents. Both were Commercial Resupply Service missions to the International Space Station. SpaceX intends to fly NASA astronauts using Falcon rockets within the next couple of years:

A recent post appearing on the blog Parabolic Arc noted NASA will not be releasing a public report on the findings of the SpaceX Falcon 9 CRS-7 explosion that resulted in the loss of the launch vehicle, the Dragon spacecraft, and the roughly $118 million in supplies and hardware the spacecraft was carrying. The post also notes that the Orb-3 accident was handled differently by NASA, but were the two accidents so distinct as to warrant two totally dissimilar approaches?

The premise of the Parabolic Arc report was somewhat inaccurate. NASA didn't refuse to issue a public report; the truth is, no public report was ever produced. NASA officials noted on Wednesday, July 19, that, as the agency was not required to create such a report, one was not generated.

When asked about the discrepancy between the two incidents, NASA officials noted that the Orb-3 failure had occurred on a NASA launch pad (at the agency's Wallops Flight Facility Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport's Pad-0A – which is managed by Virginia Space, not NASA). Whereas the Falcon 9 CRS-7 mission had launched from SpaceX's own pad (SLC-40, which is not their pad it was leased to them by the U.S. Air Force) on a commercial flight licensed by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Therefore, NASA was not required to produce a report on the CRS-7 accident. However, Orb-3 was also licensed by the FAA, making this distinction tenuous.

The problem submitted by SpaceX as the root cause of the CRS-7 accident was a failed strut in the rocket's second stage. SpaceX stated that it had fixed the problem and, for all intents and purposes, the matter was dropped.

Fast forward 14 months and another Falcon 9, with the $185 million Amos-6 spacecraft, exploded while just sitting on the pad, taking the rocket, its payload, and some of the ground support facilities at Canaveral's Space Launch Complex 40 with it. Since the Amos-6 accident, SpaceX has moved its operations to Kennedy Space Center's historic Launch Complex 39A, under the 20-year lease with NASA that SpaceX entered into in April of 2014.

With limited information made available to the public, conspiracy theories, including those involving it being struck by a drone and snipers hired by SpaceX's competition, sprung up in articles and on comment boards on sites such as NASASpaceFlight.com and elsewhere regarding the cause of the Amos-6 explosion. This demonstrated the need for a transparent accounting of accidents involving public-private efforts such as NASA's Commercial Resupply Services contract.

Extra: Meanwhile, NASA has growing confidence in the test flight schedule for Boeing and SpaceX's crewed flights: http://spacenews.com/nasa-and-companies-express-growing-confidence-in-commercial-crew-schedules/

Related: NASA Advisory Committee Skeptical of SpaceX Manned Refueling Plan
SpaceX Identifies Cause of September Explosion
After Months of Delay Following Explosion, SpaceX Finally Launches More Satellites
Problems With SpaceX Falcon 9 Design Could Delay Manned Missions
Elon Musk Accuses Tesla Employee of Being a Union Agitator
SpaceX Technician says Concerns about Test Results Got Him Fired


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:31PM (#465476)

    So what about

    "excessive mandatory overtime," lower-than-average pay, and frequent injuries

    ?, did he say anything about that? If his complaints are genuine than do something about that instead of angrily shouting 'union'.

    Further, Tesla still hired this guy. If he misrepresented his skill set and is not fit for the job, then he should've been fired already. (And Tesla should have a second look at their hiring practice)
    If they hired him, and he is performing as expected, then why are you up in a fuzz about his claims? Did he raise his concerns through internal process first and was ignored? Does an internal process like that exists? ... The reaction to this sounds a lot like they can really use a union.
       

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday February 10 2017, @02:38PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 10 2017, @02:38PM (#465479) Journal

      It would be so much easier if worker units did not have to so carefully scrutinized during the qualification process prior to their acquisition.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:41PM (#465480)

      But we're being invaded! We're at war! We need to strike at our enemies! They are in our midst!

      /s

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:13PM (#465490)

      Further, Tesla still hired this guy. If he misrepresented his skill set and is not fit for the job, then he should've been fired already.

      The person is an employee of four years. [medium.com]

      This whole narrative of him being a "union plant" is exactly the kind of bullshit smear I would expect from a company that needs a union.

      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday February 11 2017, @04:02AM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday February 11 2017, @04:02AM (#465679) Homepage

        You can never be certain that working for a so-called "Big Name" is all rollerblades and foosball and free-beer Fridays. I heard the SpaceX guys are also overworked like dogs and underpaid for what they do, because they are working for a name (and likely also a cause). I hear Apple workers are underpaid as well, but they tend to be brand fanatics. And if you've been reading about Amazon's work environment for not only its warehouse workers but its white-collar employees as well, you'd believe it were a miserable shithole not worth any salary. There's a big name here in northern San Diego with a campus that looks like a modern art museum, but its employees are overworked and miserable and are laid off every few months, maybe a year if they're one of the better ones. If you can identify them without mentioning their name, I'll buy you a beer.

        Just the other day I got a recruitment call from some shitty recruiter who was obviously a Pajeet halfway around the world, trying to get me into an interview with Qualcomm (I'm no stranger to those, actually). He offered me a position for $19 an hour and I told him to go fuck himself and he said, "B-but it's Qualcomm! They're a BIG NAME!" I told him I was already working for a big name and told him to go fuck himself again. He called me back and offered me a hardware/firmware debugger position for $21 an hour (I interviewed for the same position months earlier at the offer of $26 an hour) and I told him that I was even more offended and again told him to go fuck himself.

        He still calls and e-mails me. I don't return his calls or e-mails.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:41PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @02:41PM (#465481)

    The fun thing is that you can be completely transparent! You CAN share your factory accident records and how much overtime you make your workers perform! And, if you're that transparent and you're showing that you take care of your workers WELL and pay them WELL and care about their SAFETY.... then a union isn't going to get enough traction to win a formation vote.
    Of course, if your records show the court of public opinion that you do require lots of mandatory overtime, don't pay comparable wages for equivalent work at other auto factories, and have a higher than average LTA.... then maybe your employees should unionize?

    • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Friday February 10 2017, @02:59PM

      by RamiK (1813) on Friday February 10 2017, @02:59PM (#465488)

      Or maybe he'll just move production to a country where employees aren't so picky about missing the odd arm or leg.

      --
      compiling...
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by butthurt on Friday February 10 2017, @04:08PM

        by butthurt (6141) on Friday February 10 2017, @04:08PM (#465506) Journal

        Yes, I'm sure Tesla would be welcome in Tennessee. General Motors, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan and Volkswagen are already there.

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @05:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @05:19PM (#465536)

          Volkswagen actually wants a union in their plant in TN.

          They are big on "workers councils" which are an implementation of Deming's [wikipedia.org] continuous quality improvement management philosophy that is largely responsible for Japan's ascent from bottom-of-the-barrel to top automaker in the world. But a workers council without a full-fledged union can easily be turned into a tool for employee repression, so they are illegal in the US.

          The TN governor, Haslam, is such a died-in-the-wool republican that he's been fighting VW on their attempt to unionize their own plant. [msnbc.com] So far, Haslam has won. With the help of a bizarre anti-union union. [washingtonpost.com]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @11:35PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @11:35PM (#465627)

            Rethuglicans. So heinous they won't even let companies who want their workers to unionize, do so. Idiots keep happily voting these sociopaths into office, though. Grade A, top shelf fucking maroons.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @01:18AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @01:18AM (#465649)

              ...and some, I assume, are good people.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @09:47PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @09:47PM (#465904)

                I hope they find a worthy replacement soon for the TN governor. I mean, other republicans are dyed-in-the-wool, but this guy actually wore his far-right garments too tightly and expired. I don't know if that means briefs, breeches, boxers, or turbans, but he still died in his wool, so I guess the message is right wing ideology=death!

          • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Saturday February 11 2017, @12:19AM

            by Thexalon (636) on Saturday February 11 2017, @12:19AM (#465638)

            With the help of a bizarre anti-union union.

            It's not that bizarre: One of the classic anti-unionization tactics is to create a "company union", which looks like a union but was created by the company, and management has certain controls over, as a way of keeping the workers from thinking about getting a real union.

            As for the VW unionization campaign, the governor in question is very clear about why he's opposing the effort even if VW isn't: If VW unionizes, workers in other auto plants might start getting ideas.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @05:04AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @05:04AM (#465689)

              It's not that bizarre: One of the classic anti-unionization tactics is to create a "company union", which looks like a union but was created by the company, and management has certain controls over, as a way of keeping the workers from thinking about getting a real union.

              Except that doesn't fit the mold here. The anti-union was constantly complaining about VW freezing them out and favoring the UAW.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 10 2017, @05:56PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 10 2017, @05:56PM (#465545) Journal

      You CAN share your factory accident records
       
      They are required by law to share those records with certain people.

      Do I have to give my employees and their representatives access to the OSHA injury and illness records? Yes, your employees, former employees, their personal representatives, and their authorized employee representatives have the right to access accurate OSHA injury and illness records, with some limitations, as discussed below. [osha.gov]

      Tesla claims it's injury rate is about half of industry standard (as of 2014). I would imagine that if they really had a terrible injury rate the union/employee would be broadcasting that fact.

      (that said, they absolutely have the right to join a union if they want, even if they had a perfect safety record)

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Bot on Friday February 10 2017, @02:55PM

    by Bot (3902) on Friday February 10 2017, @02:55PM (#465485) Journal

    = alien vs predator

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 10 2017, @06:04PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 10 2017, @06:04PM (#465551) Journal

      As an official representative for Corporate Environmental, Health & Safety Management professionals I hereby claim "Alien."

      Don't forget your Class D PPE (minimum) if you happen to cut me.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 10 2017, @06:32PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 10 2017, @06:32PM (#465561) Journal

      On a serious note, I had the pleasure of crossing a Teamsters picket line for a month or so as the EHS Manager.

      They would shout all sorts of fun stuff at me like "how many fingers did you lose this year!"

      I'd get all riled up thinking it was only like half of one, that's a huge improvement!

      It was a weird, and very stressful, experience but I do believe I improved things there. And, I'm still pro-union.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by https on Friday February 10 2017, @08:10PM

        by https (5248) on Friday February 10 2017, @08:10PM (#465578) Journal

        You can't be pro-union and cross a picket line. Your actions say what side you are on.

        --
        Offended and laughing about it.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 10 2017, @08:24PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 10 2017, @08:24PM (#465581) Journal

          Hardly. I'm pro free-speech, too, but I don't go out marching with the KKK.

          They have the right to freedom of association and slavery is illegal. So they are free to strike if they want. I support that. That doesn't mean I have to support every individual strike.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by TheB on Friday February 10 2017, @10:01PM

      by TheB (1538) on Friday February 10 2017, @10:01PM (#465602)

      Watch out for those illegal predators.
      They don't stop with our jobs. They also take our skulls.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:15PM (#465491)

    There are some impressionable people who will put up with a lot to work at a cutting edge company. But when the product becomes mainstream, not so much. With longer range, high performance electric cars being announced/delivered by large auto companies, startups in the Bay Area and many companies in China, Tesla may be losing the ability to attract idealists?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @04:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @04:08PM (#465504)
      This has always been the case. People will work more (lower pay, longer hours) for a cause that they believe in, to a minimum of 0 (pick your favorite do-gooder charity, it should be primarily volunteers). If you believed that you were part of the team that would put the first man on Mars, you would probably work a little more than 9-5.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @04:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @04:35PM (#465522)

        Agreed, but it's SpaceX that plans to go to Mars, not Tesla...

        Tesla bought an old car assembly plant which (many years ago) closed when GM management led to union troubles, was then re-opened as a joint venture between Toyota & GM (NUMMI) still with the UAW, closed again...and bought by Tesla. My guess: the UAW will be back in a few years when the reality of Model 3 "higher volume" production sinks in, if not sooner.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:21PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @03:21PM (#465492)

    Remember that Tesla illegally used $5/hour foreign labor [soylentnews.org] to build part of the Model 3 production line.

    Silicon valley has always treated their blue collar workers like 2nd class employees. [recode.net]

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday February 10 2017, @06:21PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Friday February 10 2017, @06:21PM (#465560)

      Remember that Tesla illegally used $5/hour foreign labor to build part of the Model 3 production line.

      I like how the majority of the comments on that article say that anybody could have made that mistake, or the entire thing is bullshit.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday February 10 2017, @04:01PM

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday February 10 2017, @04:01PM (#465501)

    Under current US law, the workers at Tesla have a right to determine by their vote whether they want to be represented by U.A.W. or any other union they damn well please. If they choose to have union representation, then they get to elect their local leadership, who will then (with the help of the national U.A.W.) negotiate a contract with Tesla management. And yes, that also means that it's illegal for Tesla to fire this guy because of his union associations.

    For a guy who claims to be "union neutral", Musk is sure not acting like it. The "outside agitators stirring up trouble" line of argument is consistently used by those with power to dismiss the complaints of those without power.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @05:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @05:06PM (#465530)

      I never really bought all the hero worship that Musk gets.
      He's just another billionaire. The most kind thing you can say about them is that they are all limited by their experiences, just like any other human.
      But the experiences that most billionaires have are ideal for blinding them to what its like for non-billionaires.

      Even the ones who aren't born rich, they typically end up with a mythology that "if I can do it, anyone can do it" without any comprehension that the only thing that distinguishes them from all the other hard-working ass-busting slobs who are lucky if they can afford a mortgage is the rare good luck of a billionaire and the typical bad luck of the prole.

      • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @06:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @06:02PM (#465550)

        Lazy hippy, if you're having trouble finding your bootstraps I'll be more than happy to kick you in the butt and get your face closer to them.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday February 10 2017, @11:34PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Friday February 10 2017, @11:34PM (#465626)

        For the True Believers of capitalism, the simple fact that person X is richer than person Y are means that, by definition, X must be a better person than Y in some way.

        Never mind that in a lot of cases, the truly rich inherited their money.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @06:19PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @06:19PM (#465558)

    ... wait until you see what you have to pay with the UAW tax on top! And with the UAW's sterling reputation on quality control, this could be Tesla's 'Samsung Moment' in the making!

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @07:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 10 2017, @07:58PM (#465573)

      Some quick googling suggests that it takes 15-30 person-hours to assemble a car in big production. For example, here's Toyota at 17-18 hours, https://www.toyota.co.jp/en/kids/faq/b/01/06/ [toyota.co.jp]

      Even if it costs Tesla $50 an hour for union labor in the Bay Area, and their plant is on the slow end, that's $50 x 30 = USD $1500. Labor is not a significant part of the final price.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @08:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @08:34AM (#465714)

        Please do not bring in facts, the republicunts don't understand them and find them disturbing.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @12:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 11 2017, @12:48PM (#465752)

          Just as long as the facts are alternative.