CNN and a a lot of other outlets are reporting that JPL engineer Sidd Bikkannavar, an American-born citizen, was detained at the border when returning from racing solar powered cars overseas.
The border guards demanded he turn over his government-issued NASA phone and its PIN and held him in their detention area.
Bikkannavar also was interviewed by The Verge:
"It was not that they were concerned with me bringing something dangerous in, because they didn't even touch the bags. They had no way of knowing I could have had something in there," he says. "You can say, 'Okay well maybe it's about making sure I'm not a dangerous person,' but they have all the information to verify that."
Bikkannavar says he's still unsure why he was singled out for the electronic search. He says he understands that his name is foreign — its roots go back to southern India. He didn't think it would be a trigger for extra scrutiny, he says. "Sometimes I get stopped and searched, but never anything like this. Maybe you could say it was one huge coincidence that this thing happens right at the travel ban."
Land of the free? Home of the brave?
(Score: 4, Funny) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:01AM
Well he was a scientist, and scientists are responsible for terrorism.
They invented spears, pikes, swords, gunpowder, guns, cannons, bombs and nukes.
Terrorists have used spears, pikes, swords, gunpowder, guns, cannons, and bombs, and want nukes.
The connection and conclusion is obvious.
Scientists support terrorism.
We should ban travel from countries with known scientists.
Just to be safe.
/s
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:28AM
And by cutting budget for schools and universities, it can be ensured that
a) There won't be any domestic terr- ahm... science
b) You will be able to identify a potential terr- ahm... foreigner by his ability to speak two coherent sentences in a row
c) "we" and "them" can benefit from the general bias against elitists
(This is not necessarily directed against the USA as such, just against current politics. And that trend can be seen in way more countries than just within the USA)
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:14PM
The Chinese invented gunpowder, cannons and bombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_artillery_in_the_Song_dynasty [wikipedia.org]
If any U.S. customs agents are reading, please take note!
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:42PM
It's been cold despite all the claims about global warming.
We should really have great public bonfires where all those filthy liars come to burn their own deviant books.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:17AM
Especially the Nordstrom catalog.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:06AM
Land of the (busted) home(loan), free of the brave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:15AM
You know, I've been thinking a lot about the "Star-Spangled Banner" in recent weeks. Actually, I was thinking about it during Trump's inauguration, because there was a lot of debate/criticism of musicians who participated, including Jackie Evancho, who ended up singing the national anthem. Personally, whatever you may think of Trump, I think it was wrong the way people piled on to criticize performers. It's a peaceful transfer of power at a national ceremony. Somebody's gotta sing the anthem -- shouldn't it be somebody good, out of respect for the anthem and the country??
But the thing is -- our practice of singing the first verse of Francis Scott Key's poem is actually quite subversive. How many people realize that almost all of the first verse is actually a series of questions? The end of the first verse is: "Oh say, DOES that Star-Spangled Banner yet [i.e., still] wave o'er the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave?" Every time I hear the national anthem, I think about this -- and it has nothing to do with recent politics. I realized this decades ago, and it's still striking to me.
Most countries have national anthems that praise the good parts of their country or ask for a deity to watch over it or whatever. Ours is a series of questions -- "Oh say, can you see...? Whose broad stripes and bright stars? Oh say, does it yet wave??"
Yet we forget about that in the way it is mostly sung, the questions too long for us to parse as we listen. And the conclusion is generally sung completely in opposition to the questioning intent of the line, with the long drawn-out ascent on "Land of the Free" (often topped with extra flourish)... long pause... "and the Home of the Brave!!" Play ball!!
Except that's NOT what the lyrics are saying -- they are Francis Scott Key imprisoned outside Fort McHenry worried about whether the flag has still survived the night. Is it still there? Does he (do we) still live in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave??
That's what I heard so strongly when Jackie Evancho sang last month, and it's a set of questions we should continuously keep asking ourselves.
--
P.S. If you ever have a chance to hear a performance of more than the first verse, with a decent singer you can really capture the drama of the poem. After the queries and questions of the first verse, with its uncertainty, the second verse begins in the "mists of the deep" before dawn... followed by more questions -- "WHAT IS that which the breeze... half conceals, half discloses?" But then the melody soars -- "Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, [start crescendo] in full glory reflected now shines in the stream... 'TIS THE STAR-SPANGLED BANNER, O long may it wave, o'er the land..." I almost tear up just thinking of that reveal of the flag and that line. We have a truly awesome and dramatic poem as our anthem, but we never get to hear the cool bits. (Last verse is pretty awesome too.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:07AM
Have you ever had liked (most of) the people of a country but profoundly dislike the country (as a political entity)?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:56AM
You Americans are obsessed with symbolism. That stuff isn't real.
It just a bunch of words penned by a pompous ass, as are all national anthems.
(Score: 1, Troll) by ewk on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:39PM
Now... now... don't be too harsh on them US-ians.
After all, they don't have that much history to symbolize.
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @02:21PM
Well that is true. But does long history = advancement/better? Let's see. China brags often about its 5,000 year history. But they have yet to grasp the basics of public sanitation or invent any kind of breakfast beyond rice gruel (zhou). India? Kinda the same on the first score. Then we have the United States, which came from nowhere and in 250 years became the world's sole superpower. So, putter along for 5,000 years, get some things right, fail to master basic toddler skills (societally speaking), mewl about how nobody respects you enough, or shoot straight to the top in 250 years. Nah, you're right. Americans suck and are stupid.
I do understand that so many are revelling in America bashing now. There are so many things to criticize America for. I do a lot of it myself. But amid the tide of media-generated froth let's not overlook remarkable things America has done, and still does. Give credit where credit is due, otherwise your approbation and your praise ring hollow.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by ewk on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:38PM
Glad you agree. (That takes care of the first four words)
Not sure where I possibly implied where a long history means advancement/better. So, I'll leave that for what it is.
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @02:30PM
Lets see, China is bringing hundreds of millions out of poverty and into a middle class. The young upstart Americans (who skipped the thousands of years of hard bits and just coasted along on their lucky geography of being far away from anyone else, and then the last power standing in a world ware they tried desperately to sit out.) Are going the other way, with the rich poor gap ever widening and sending untold millions into poverty.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:27PM
That might be a fair point. But, we really ought to define what you mean by poverty.
The poorest American is a rich sumbitch compared to huge swaths of Africa's population. Very poor Americans are wealthy enough to grow obese subsisting off of welfare. Most poor Americans have a telephone in the home, and I don't mean just a landline. Very poor American families possess an automobile. The poorest of American children attend school.
We may be headed downhill (personally, I think we are) but we can coast a long, long, LONG way before we can be compared to the world's poor nations. Precious few Americans understand what real hunger is. The kind of hunger that just gnaws at you, day after day. I wonder if you have ever experienced such a thing? Oh, silly me - you're on the internet. You don't know what real hunger is. If you miss two meals in a row, you think you're suffering.
How about you just run along, Junior, and get back to us when you have some real life experience with poverty.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday February 16 2017, @06:50PM
Got it. America got all it got through pure luck. They woke up one morning, and wow! What luck! A trans-continental railroad. They woke up a different morning, and wow! What luck! The Panama Canal. On another morning, wow! Some of our guys wound up on the Moon. Through pure luck! Yup, every single thing, every single time, no planning or effort involved, just dumb luck.
Sure.
China...goodness. Big subject with lots of ups and downs. Thousands of years as a hegemon, lots of tributary states, still didn't give a shit about doing anything meaningful for the regular guy on the street, just more, "Eat bitter, peasants!" Communists killed the opium trade and the practice of foot-binding, and instituted basic literacy and education for citizens, but god help you if you piss off your danwei or fail to give the local party boss his little somethin' somethin'. So, mixed record. But they still haven't mastered public sanitation, breakfast, the most important meal of the day, or how to wait in line until it's your turn, goddammit.
So I stand by my original assertion, that long history does not necessarily mean better, nor does what America has achieved come down to happenstance.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:20PM
Well, TBH, most of us do suck. It's just a question of what we suck, when, and where. Mostly, you don't want to be caught sucking - it's kinda like picking your nose.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:28PM
US-ians is a not so subtle attempt to rile up Americans. Try again without being so flaimbaity unless you want to disclose your national origin so we can return the favor.
(Score: 1) by ewk on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:20PM
Posting as an Anonymous Coward is a not so subtle attempt to rile up people without accepting responsibility for ones post...
I.m.o. an 'American' can be anyone from both the northern or southern part of the American continent.
And since 'an inhabitant from the United States of America' seems a tad over the top, I opted for that other option.
TLDR: Bite me, I am Dutch :-)
PS: Without us the US-ians would probably still be waiting for the first nation to acknowledge them. :-D
http://www.americanheritage.com/content/first-official-salute-american-flag [americanheritage.com]
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:30PM
"Bite me, I am Dutch"
That "Kiss me, I'm Irish" thing has worked out nicely for me a couple times. Let me ponder this awhile - ASL? :-)
(Score: 1) by ewk on Thursday February 16 2017, @05:34PM
Trust me... you don't want to go there :-)
Besides... the L you already know.
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 1) by ewk on Thursday February 16 2017, @07:25AM
YES! My first 'Troll'-rated post :-)
And that with only one line of compassion and another of factual information...
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @02:10PM
Yes, right? The French totally aren't stirred by La Marseillaise, or the Cubans by Guantanamera or the English by "God Save the Queen." Oh, wait.
Crazy out-of-control obsession with symbolism is completely the province of Americans, and not like Turkey where insults to Turkishness are punishable by law, or in Thailand where insulting the king is a crime, or North Korea where not showering enough adulation on the God-king can get you fed to wild dogs.
Hmm, did you really think that thought through before writing it down?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:39PM
You Americans are obsessed with symbolism.
I'd hardly identify myself as some sort of jingoistic American. I just find it interesting and somewhat bizarre that we have a national anthem composed of a bunch of questions, and no one seems to notice. When I've pointed this out to other "patriotic" Americans occasionally, sometimes they're actually offended -- as if I've taken something away from the song by pointing out that the first verse ends in a question, not a declaration of greatness about "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave!"
That stuff isn't real.
Well, the U.S. anthem text is actually a narrative based on a real historical event, written by someone who was there. That's pretty rare among national anthems too, and the poem certainly wasn't written to become an anthem. Of course it's a poem, so it's written in an "elevated" style, but that doesn't mean there wasn't actually a guy imprisoned on a ship overlooking a fort and wondering whether the British attack had succeeded in the early morning hours when the guns stopped blaring. Had the fort been taken or not? Well, when the sun came up, the flag was still flying there.
Flags weren't "symbols" made important by Americans. Particularly in wartime, the carrying of the flag (or various battle banners) was something taken from European tradition as a critical element of morale, etc.
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Thursday February 16 2017, @12:34AM
Speakin' of "Jingoism"
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:17PM
You've got a point. And, the same applies to all of the phiosophers, all of the prophets, all politicians, and that stupid fucking poem inscribed on a stupid fucking copper plate inside of the stupid fucking statue in New York harbor. Now, kindly fuck off and die. You may throw yourself on the point you have just made.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:43PM
It has a few choice words about the British and Canadians:
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
(Score: 5, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:25PM
Yeah, but those words are almost NEVER sung. That's from the 3rd verse, which has basically been eliminated from almost all published versions of the song (not the poem itself, but the song as sheet music). The "Star-Spangled Banner" wasn't officially adopted as the national anthem until 1931, but it became popularized in the first couple decades of the 1900s, leading to standardized arrangements for public performance. Since the 3rd verse is mostly about degrading the British, it was dropped around the time of World War I (since the British were our allies), and it never really became standard in songbooks. The few that had it dropped it during WWII as well. (This verse gained attention in recent months for those who wanted to brand the anthem as "racist," though even if you read this passage to be racist -- and there's an argument for it -- the verse has basically never been part of the anthem as sung.)
Typically, songbooks that carry more than the 1st verse generally have the 1st and 4th, or sometimes 1st, 2nd, and 4th verses.
Isaac Asimov even has a short story entitled "No Refuge Could Save" about that 3rd verse, using it to root out a spy. When questioning a suspected spy during WWII, the interrogator said "terror of flight" in a word association, and the spy pretending to be American responded with "gloom of the grave." It is concluded the guy who responded with "gloom of the grave" MUST be a spy who studied up on Americanisms, because (1) few real Americans even know the words to the first verse of the anthem, let alone any additional ones, and (2) even if you might by chance encounter the other verses of the song, the 3rd verse was NEVER sung, and particularly it was eliminated during wartime.
(Score: 3, Funny) by linkdude64 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:45PM
This reminds me of an absolute must-watch Onion piece from years ago. "Restoration of the Original Manuscript Reveals New Verses"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2g_2N0t9k [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:19PM
Actually, I was thinking about it during Trump's inauguration, because there was a lot of debate/criticism of musicians who participated, including Jackie Evancho, who ended up singing the national anthem. Personally, whatever you may think of Trump, I think it was wrong the way people piled on to criticize performers.
To be fair, celebrities (including musicians) have a long tradition of spouting off about politics, too.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:10PM
Somebody's gotta sing the anthem -- shouldn't it be somebody good, out of respect for the anthem and the country??
Why the blind respect? What has it done for you that affected you in a positive fashion in the last couple of years...? Actually, make that decades. Does it really deserve that respect? Think carefully before you answer.
Additionally, your argument falls dangerously close to "just following orders". It's like saying "I applaud this thing, even though I know it will lead to badness, but it's what we do, so let's close our eyes and just keep marching on"
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @03:15PM
You have pondered Key's situation, and thought it through pretty thoroughly.
Have you ever considered that in every war, and even in many battles, people are still asking those questions in this day and age? Americans haven't seriously pondered those questions in recent memory, but a number of other countries have. Pretty much all of eastern Europe, Russia, several Asian countries, and maybe even China. (China is rather unique, they may never have questioned their continued existence, but surely, they questioned their future path, several times in the last century.)
And, there will be wars going forward.
Our poem will remain appropriate for all of the foreseeable future, and a lot more beyond.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by richtopia on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:08AM
This is the first time I've heard of a border being an issue, but when visiting another company corporate security may demand you unlock your mobile/laptop for inspection upon leaving. As this is an IP issue, our policy is to surrender the encrypted device and we will recover your work from backups.
However even if you are willing to surrender the device in question, customs can make your live very miserable, and would that occur if you don't play ball with unlocking your device?
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:10AM
I'd like to introduce you to your new friend, Mr Rubber Hose...
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:49AM
I never visited a repressive regime which would demand me to unlock my laptop or phone (or maybe I just wasn't aware and got lucky), but I know some colleagues who went to the US.
Some would send the key of sensitive partitions to a colleague in advance, delete their own copy, and are therefore incapable to unlock the laptop on demand.
My phone will wipe everything when I mis-type the security code 10 times...
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by rob_on_earth on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:51AM
The problem with the "I cannot unlock my device" defence is they WILL take offence and make your life unpleasant. The correct solution is having an unlock key that ONLY unlocks a benign instance of the phone. But I am not sure how that would work with the hardware copying device that they seem to be applying to any unlocked device they get their hands on.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:32AM
What about my unpublished manuscripts stored on my encrypted device? Am I just supposed to turn them over to some corporate drone who suspects I snooped their network?
If you are that worried about it, don't let the phone enter the premises.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:57AM
Why do they have to suspect you of anything?
Today, just existing and having an encrypted device is enough, after all you wouldn't encrypt anything legal you terrorist you.
Hell, having a device is enough, if you balk at them for wanting to inspect it you must be hiding something.
Everyone is a subversive. Even white Christian males might just be sneaky liberals in disguise trying to undermine America.
A good tan is enough to warrant 'special consideration.'
But hey, don't worry, your manuscripts will get published.
Unfortunately, not under your name....
The terrorists are winning. Our own shadows are now suspect
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:52PM
> [...] just existing and having an encrypted device is enough [...]
The contents of an encrypted area, ideally, look just like random data. But any data could be random. So no matter what the device contains, we can't be sure it isn't encrypted.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:48PM
If your device does not even boot without unscrambling the "random data", that can be a strong clue.
I suppose you can argue that your phone just randomly started asking for a passphrase on boot, and you have not fixed it yet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:52PM
I think what you're hinting at is while, "corporate security may demand you unlock your mobile/laptop for inspection upon leaving," they cannot actually *make* you unlock said device. They cannot keep said device either, actually. Your response might be, "Call a cop and let's see if you can hold me here or steal my laptop from me, OK?" if you're willing to burn your bridges with said company. If cops actually do show up, the company can present all the NDAs and pre-inspection authorizations but would tell security, "This is her laptop, she is free to go with it unlocked or otherwise, and your requirements are a civil and not criminal matter." And a corporation that says, "Oh, we'll just take this from you then..." will surrender it once person calls police and police informs security that this would be prosecutable theft, if any security department were stupid enough to try that. At least in states where security officers are always private citizens and never sworn officers. The corporation relies on you [or your company] needing the other corporation's good will to make any inspections stick.
Or they can have rules like at one place I interviewed at: No cameras, no cell phones, no laptops not owned by the company allowed on the premises. (They also didn't really have out-of-company visitors there.) It was an age before portable hard drives and USB sticks, but absolutely no 3.5 disks allowed offsite - if you needed to take data home, you had a company issued laptop. All cell phones were dumb then, too, but still not allowed. And because the only laptops allowed on premise carried the company property stickers (checked for on entrance and exit,) the machines were company property and searchable at any time without cause.
The government, on the other hand, has the force of law to say, "You ain't gonna unlock it? Then you ain't crossing the border. And you ain't leaving the border checkpoint until you do." Fair, especially to a citizen? Hell, no. It should be, "No warrant, no proximate suspicion of crime, no way." But it isn't. And we are so scared of teh terrorists and teh copyrights violatorz and teh haxxors that we let that bullshit stand.
Of course, it may just *just* be that as a JPL employee he has a security clearance. And it may just *just* be that someone in the FBI or other TLO with jurisdiction has a reason they wanted that engineer stopped and searched. Which might not have anything to do with a weird last name and everything about a JPL engineer doing overseas travel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:08AM
These days, more like land of the craven, home of the slave.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:21AM
Yup, assumption of guilt and expectation that interrogation will reveal all hidden information. I overheard a border agent discussing this, and the reply to "what if they're innocent" was "innocent people don't end up in that situation."
This is the biggest problem around. "Innocent people don't run. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear." Etc etc. Its a bunch of garbage not fit for a free society. Bring evidence of wrong doing if you want to detain someone. Sure this let's some bad guys slip through, but those bad guys will learn how to evade anyway so in the meantime mostly innocents suffer.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:10AM
Customs are known for heavy handed arbitrary shit and searching electronic devices long before Trump talked about a travel ban.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/11/effs-guide-protecting-devices-data-border [eff.org]
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:10AM
True, but such actions as Trumps EO ramp up the crazy as border agents feel its a free for all because they're backed by the president. His tweets affect the stock market, foreign relations, and it would be folly to think it doesn't affects LEOs.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:45AM
Well he is large enough he may actually affect things in Low Earth Orbit....
Ta-zing!
I'll be here all week!
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:42PM
...it would be folly to think it doesn't affects LEOs.
What do low Earth orbits have to do with it?
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:49AM
Which part of "no" could he not pronounce
The guy is an American citizen. He has an absolute right of re-entry. They might annoy him for a few hours, but they cannot deny him entry into the country. This was the moment to make a stand.
Turning over the password to his phone to a bunch of untrustworthy dweebs was dumb. In the best case, they flipped through the phone hoping for porn. In the worst case, they have installed some kind of malware on it.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:34AM
Before we can speak up for others we must first speak up for ourselves.
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday February 15 2017, @09:24AM
They can, however, make his life hell. And I'm sure they can hold him for extended periods. The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you. They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you're suspected of a serious crime, eg murder. You can be held without charge for up to 14 days If you're arrested under the Terrorism Act. After all you must be subversive if you don't bend over and ask them to ram it deeper.
If they hold you with no outside communication, what can you do about it? After all you wouldn't of gotten beaten and tasered if you had just not resisted and co-operated with a reasonable (to them) demand to rifle through you personal files you damned terrorist. To this type of thinking you have nothing to fear unless your hiding something. If you say no, you're guilty of hiding something and need to be 'dealt with.'
Is it right? No. But with our new authoritarian leaning, anything can be justified. Anything at all.
Also, they denied legal, vetted permanent residents entry, only a small step to deny a citizen. Especially one so subversive he won't let us look at his phone.
Got to keep out those 'bad hombres' at all costs. Even the ruination of our ideals.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:23PM
If it were me I would have refused. He was in the right here and the border officer was abusing his authority. Sitting in a little room for 24 hours would be worth it, although nothing would likely to be done to the officer responsible unfortunately.
This is why you don't want your police state to get too powerful. These asshats now think they have the full government in agreement with them that they should have unlimited power.
(Score: 4, Informative) by FakeBeldin on Wednesday February 15 2017, @01:23PM
If it were me I would have refused.
Then they take your phone, computer, other devices and send it all off to a lab somewhere for further examination.
He was in the right here and the border officer was abusing his authority.
The law is currently on their side - the unlock your phone for us thing is something they offer to be nice, instead of confiscating your equipment for indefinite periods.(Getting your stuff back is hard, and will cost you at the very least shipping).
Sitting in a little room for 24 hours would be worth it
Worth what?
You're in a holding cell while they verify your credentials and send away any devices you have. After 24 hours, you're allowed out again - sans devices. Those devices are now going to a place which is paid to siphon off all the data it can from them.
Oh, and your worthy sitting in a room will probably lead to your inclusion on lists which will make passing future customs checks in the USA likely ... unpleasant.
These asshats now think they have the full government in agreement with them
If with "these asshats" you mean customs officers, then yes. The government fully agrees with them - and these rules are nothing new, it's been this way for a while (e.g. from http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/smartphone-laptop-searches-know-rights/ [makeuseof.com]):
according to a 2008 ruling made in a federal court, customs agents at U.S. airports can inspect the contents of passengers’ laptop computers. They don’t even need any evidence to do so. The Ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco declared a computer to be no different to a suitcase, car or any other property subject to search at an international border.
The above ruling also applies to tablet computers and smartphones. If it switches on and you can store things on it, it’s fair game.
Remark that no president was harmed in that quote, this was a federal court deciding this.
Further reading: http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/supreme-court-phone-warrant-us-border/ [dailydot.com].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @02:35PM
Your post is important because everyone needs to wake up and understand this dystopian nightmare is where we already are. The NSA spies on you in your home via your computers and phones every moment of every day. The government puts up license plate scanners and cameras with facial recognition in more and more places you have to traverse every day. Big data mines your information and profiles you every day. Social networks map out your friends, what your favorite soda is, etc, every day. The federal government assassinates American citizens by drone, today. I have seen the TSA VIPR [wikipedia.org] thugs waving machine guns in the NYC subway. I have seen American citizens penned into "free speech zones."
This is not a misty, 50 years into a future populated by an Arnold Schwarzenegger character, but today. The only difference is people are still coasting along in a bubble of nostalgia for the way things used to be, and which they fervently wish was still true but know in their hearts it's already slipped away. It's going to get worse. It won't stop until people make it stop.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Wednesday February 15 2017, @02:59PM
This was a US citizen with a NASA issued phone. There was no cause for him to be detained or searched. CPB claims they do not discriminate based on gender, race, or religion. Bullshit. Your government, at least in words does not agree with the asshats. They are discriminating based on these things, and directly against US citizens. If you want to do it to visitors fine, but this was against a US citizen. Your country is quite broken.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 16 2017, @04:01AM
Customs has more authority granted by congress than any other agency within the US. Customs has supreme authority anywhere near the borders. And, that is why so many of us have objected to the expansion of the border region to include almost all of the populated US. If you live within 150 miles of the border, coastline, or an airport, Customs has authority. They need explain nothing to you. Anything short of torture or murder is acceptable, and it's easy enough for them to cover up a murder. "Shot in the back while trying to escape" works for regular cops - it works just fine for Customs.
If you're going to express your indignation to a customs officer, proceed with caution. You can easily disappear.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:50PM
The part in which he no longer wanted to waste his time and energy being detained indefinitely by a backwards ass agency that lacks any common sense. He did the right thing. Just let them have the device, get free and then call and report the incident. It was not a question of there being 'top secret' info in the device, merely that is a was a NASA owned device. At the point when the rock of stupidity meets the hard place lacking common sense why punish your self ? Just follow procedure, surrender the device and report to your bosses the device was taken from you by other federal authorities and then go home. Let the executive pinheads and the folks employed for that kind of thing do their jobs...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:02PM
Stop getting legal advice from movies. The police can't hold you without cause, 24 hrs. or otherwise.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday February 15 2017, @02:05PM
If I was his boss he'd be out of work. Not only did he give the phone over to unauthorized parties, he then failed to report the incident to the relevant officials at NASA, and it only came to light because he whined on facebook.
That's absolutely inexcusable.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:07PM
Yeah, you're an Internet tough guy. You'd do wonders and sh*t blunders.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:17PM
you don't know that. just like i don't know if you're really a pig.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by number6 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:38AM
Sorry in advance if these thought are stupid; I'm just brainstorming ....
-- Curious Thought 1 --
Is it not possible to have a smart phone with separate profiles/partitions?
Profile one could be named PRIVATE, and profile two could be named PUBLIC.
When you boot the phone it always boots into PUBLIC and the other profile is encrypted and invisible.
When you want to boot into PRIVATE you press a key combo during boot (similar to a desktop computer with BIOS).
If you are stopped by US Customs, you just let your phone boot up normally and play dumb about the other partition.
-- Curious Thought 2 --
Is it not possible to solve this problem by ....
Remove real phone SIM card and replace with another.
Hide real phone SIM card inside some secret interior cavity of an electronic gadget.
After passing US Customs, put real SIM card back into phone.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:28AM
The law does not require that you give border agents access to your data.
They can ask for it and they can hassle you, but ultimately they can not require it without reasonable suspicion.
However, lying to the border agents will get you into a whole lot of trouble.
(Score: 3, Informative) by J053 on Thursday February 16 2017, @02:21AM
The law does not require that you give border agents access to your data. They can ask for it and they can hassle you, but ultimately they can not require it without reasonable suspicion.
Actually, it does. In Riley v. California (2013) and United States v. Wurie (2014) the US Supreme Court agreed with the Ninth Circuit that, for purposes of Customs enforcement, laptops, cell phones, and tablets are just as searchable as any other luggage.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @07:11PM
No, it does not say that.
Being searchable is one thing.
Being required to assist with the search is a completely different thing.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Wednesday February 15 2017, @11:28AM
Google does allow that on all phones - "guest mode".
However (I tried it), you would need to be careful to ensure it didn't revert to the "owner" lock screen (or something else).
And then again, you might meet a border fella that knew what "guest mode" was....
(Score: 2) by number6 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:18PM
my thought #1 was meant to overcome such a situation;
as the phone boots, it ALWAYS boots with the same-looking screen, there is no such thing as guest screens and other screens.
The boot process and display take X amount of time (X can be user-set, let's say 15 seconds);
during this fifteen second boot period, there are underlying hooks in the boot process which will capture keyboard input;
if you type "s3cr3tsauce" (for example) during the 15 second boot, the phone boots to the PRIVATE partition.
if you type nothing or some other password during the 15 second boot, the phone boots to the PUBLIC partition.
To overcome the fact that smart phones don't have keyboards, we could make the boot screen a keyboard, or maybe use voice input.
If somebody types (or voices) unrecognized patterns during boot, the phone continues booting to PUBLIC.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by cpghost on Wednesday February 15 2017, @01:18PM
If you lose sight of your smartphone for just a couple of seconds at a border control, the usual Best Practice is: don't use it anymore AT ALL, and consider that is has been physically tampered with. I.e. consider that someone in a backroom has replaced some chips with tailored components. It happens in a heartbeat. Remove the battery immediately, and sell the compromised phone with that battery on eBay when you're back home, and get a brand new one. Oh, and disable that SIM card then throw that away too.
A corollary to this is: get a new / used phone and brand new SIM card, don't connect that phone to your usual cloud accounts etc. and take that phone with you when you plan to cross some borders. Consider those phones "throw-away gadgets". Again, when you're back home, sell it + battery on eBay, and throw away that SIM card after disabling it.
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:04PM
why not go 'full mr. robot', then, and put the battery and the phone ram chips and cpu into a microwave.
it was on tv. it must be 'a thing', right?
lol
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:41PM
Why destroy perfectly good equipment that you can sell to some sucker on eBay?
(Score: 2, Informative) by cpghost on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:09PM
That's silly. The equipment may still work for people who are okay with using compromised gear. And remember, it's not only at the US border that cellphones are being "inspected" and modified, there are many, many other international borders where that happens too. If you value your data and your privacy, don't lose sight of your phone, and if you have to hand it out to some border guard and he/she has to take it to some back room for "inspection" for a couple of minutes, toss it away later, i.e. sell it. If you're nice: tell the next owner why you're selling it though..., but do yourself a favor: don't use it anymore. I'm wearing my infosec pro hat here, not my tinfoil hat. This is actual best practice where it matters.
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
(Score: 1) by Sourcery42 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:03PM
Here's something you could do with many androids. Not as elegant as the PUBLIC/PRIVATE setup proposed above, but it has the added benefit of not directly deceiving the feds should they ask for a look at your phone. If your android has custom recovery available, you can make a full system and userdata image. Upload that image to the online storage locker of your choice, or maybe stick it on a microsd if you trust nothing online. I'm willing to bet the riveted things for lacing up the boots I'm wearing now would completely mask a little microsd on an x-ray. Then wipe said phone back to a completely vanilla state. If it makes you feel better don't even connect it to your primary Google account, or don't add a Google account at all. If you're uber paranoid throw a burner sim in it for good measure; if you're crossing borders you possibly aren't going to want to be using your primary sim anyway. Now you have a device with nothing personal on it. Let the LEOs poke around it all they want. When you get where you're going, download your backup and restore. iPhones could likely do something similar with icloud backups, but I'm far less familiar with the logistics of that. We should never have to do something like this to cross a border into a civilized country, but at least we can.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by charon on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:48AM
(Score: 2) by aclarke on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:02PM
As a Canadian, this point has always grated me about American politics and laws. It's somehow worse if it happens to an American, but OK if it happens to someone else. We, as humans, should be concerned about "human" rights, not the rights of our own particular little group of people.
I work for an American company, and occasionally have to travel across the border for work. I haven't had to do it under the new administration, but it's gotten to be such a pain already that having to travel to the US is a serious negative consideration for me when choosing my next job. I could go on and on about what I've dealt with from US Border Patrol, from taking my passport and leaving me sitting there for hours, to accusing me of coming into the US to "steal our jobs", to putting me in secondary for driving the wrong type of car, apparently. There comes a point though when one just decides that one doesn't have to to deal with this, and decides to do something else.
I suppose there's a group of people who would consider that a "win" for the US, as it's one more job for an American to compete for. But travelling across the border is becoming so distasteful that I don't even want to travel through the country on a family vacation. It's a shame as I lived there for a long time and have a lot of friends there.
I'm sure this post has put me on some sort of new list, but there it is.
(Score: 2) by art guerrilla on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:11PM
um, perhaps you've heard of a teeny, tiny, eensy, weensy, trifling concept called 'american exceptionalism' ? ? ?
BY DEFINITION, Amerika is ALL that is good and great, all the rest of you are shit on a shingle...
end of discussion
(yes, OF COURSE that is pathological psychopathy, but we have the big guns, so nobody does shit about it, do they ? ? ?)
'what, we're so innocent...'
THAT alone is what makes the deep state hate t-rump...
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Wednesday February 15 2017, @12:45PM
I've already canceled a vacation there (Florida) since the ridiculous "travel ban", and will not be doing planned motorcycle trips in the US this summer either. There are lots of places to explore in Canada, so that'll be the top of my list rather than Vermont, New York, etc.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:50PM
Yes, by all means, please stay away from our country. We don't want you here.
I'm not being snarky. Approximately half our population voted for this Administration, and the other half voted for people who would do much of the same (all of this stuff was already happening under "progressive" Obama, remember; Trump's only been in office for about 3 weeks now).
Coming here and spending your hard-earned money here only feeds the beast. There's many other places to visit that will treat you properly instead of like a criminal. You can stay in Canada (I assume that's where you live by your writing), as it's a quite large (geographically) nation, with lots to see and do, from coast to coast. You can also fly to many places in Europe. Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, etc. all seem like wonderful places to visit for a vacation. They're probably a little pricier than the US, but that's OK. If you're into motorcycle trips, I'll bet driving around Great Britain (but avoiding the London area) would be fun, especially the quaint parts of Scotland and Wales. But you can also drive straight across Canada, as your famous drummer Neil Peart did a while ago (and wrote a book about).
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:47PM
Thanks, that's the idea (great idea about motorcycling around the UK ... it's hard to rent motorcycles here, but there may be different). I think with the previous government, people were oblivious (and mainly, still are). Having a fascist as as leader will hopefully be a wake-up call for a few people. Probably not enough, but a few.
If the NSA sucking up all those phone calls manages to implicate current members of your government if nefarious activities, it may have the opposite effect ... but again, may bring attention to it.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:59PM
Why would the NSA use their data to get current members of government in trouble, unless they're members of the opposition (to whoever is running the executive branch)? That would be biting the hand that feeds them.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:48PM
What bothers me the most about this situation is the fact that the headline and the story go out of their way to assure us that Mr. Bikkannavar is American born. The unspoken corollary is that it would be perfectly fine to seize, search, and copy electronics at the border for non-natives.
That is not what corollary means. It's merely something that follows near trivially from the conclusions of a prior bit of argument. Implication would be a better word choice here.
Most successful argument is about persuading people from their point of view that something is wrong. If to make the relevant example, I don't care about the rights of non-natives especially when it comes to protecting and securing natives, then I probably won't be moved by the stories of many non-natives getting searched, etc at the border particularly since that process supposedly is to protect the natives of the US. But an example of a native-born likely with a decent level of federal security clearance undergoing the same treatment would be far more persuasive from my point of view because the whole point of the security apparatus is to protect that class of person not persecute them. One example that gets past my ideological defenses is worth a hundred that don't.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday February 16 2017, @04:15AM
One example that gets past my ideological defenses is worth a hundred that don't.
Nothing gets by khallow's ideological defenses! Nothing! Reminds me of Drax the Destroyer in _Guardians of the Galaxy_: "Metaphors go right over his head." "Nothing goes over my head! My reflexes are too fast! I would catch it!" Yes, khallow, you would catch it, if you could. A corollary to an axiom that informs a rule for the alt-right, is no corollary at all, in this you are correct! But it is because the original axiom, the ideological posit, is batshit, Mighty Bustard, jmorris crazy, and crazy rules are not rules at all.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 16 2017, @05:21AM
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday February 16 2017, @07:06AM
And this, khallow, is why you fail. You need to listen to your fellow Soylentils! They are smarter than you are!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 16 2017, @08:02AM
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday February 16 2017, @08:19AM
I have learned a lot from you, my dear khallow! I learned that just pointing out your ignorance is not enough. I learned I have to actually demonstrate your ignorance to you, and that that is still not enough! Oh, good times, eh? Not thinking? Long periods? What do you thing a philosopher who has been around for thousands of years does with his time? It is not like I am some child of the Eighties that gets trapped into the works of a refugee from Russia that writes very bad fiction! Or even less likely that I fall prey to the addled thinking of Moses Von Miser and the Austrian School of Very Bad Economics! Yes, rich people are bad, evil, immoral, and they are going straight to hell. Not just me saying this! So I still hold out hope for you, khallow! It is never too late to begin to learn!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 16 2017, @02:45PM
What do you thing a philosopher who has been around for thousands of years does with his time?
Apparently, not much of anythink.
It is not like I am some child of the Eighties that gets trapped into the works of a refugee from Russia that writes very bad fiction! Or even less likely that I fall prey to the addled thinking of Moses Von Miser and the Austrian School of Very Bad Economics!
Funny, that hasn't happened to me either. The Austrian School has the typical philosophical problems that occur when empiricism is abandoned. And I find it less pitiable to be a follower of Rand's works rather than the people who insist on acting like Randian villains (she has nailed that stereotype quite well). And what is there to brag about, when you defend Marx [soylentnews.org] who doesn't have even the virtue of readable bad fiction to entertain us?
Yes, rich people are bad, evil, immoral, and they are going straight to hell. Not just me saying this!
And as I noted elsewhere, this sort of rhetoric [soylentnews.org] is just so Nazi. I'm not at all surprised that you give it at least lip service.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:18PM
Look Mummy, a Godwin! And with little sense of irony too...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:27AM
Look Mummy, a Godwin! And with little sense of irony too...
An AC wrote [soylentnews.org] in my journal comments:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
(Martin Niemöller)
How many people should die before I speak out against evil? "The rich" are merely the start.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday February 15 2017, @01:08PM
According to the article,
Bikkannavar kept the story to himself for days until he decided to share in a Facebook post with friends.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @01:54PM
Also according to the article:
When it was returned he immediately turned it off because he knew he had to take it straight to the IT department at JPL. Once he arrived in Los Angeles, he went to NASA and told his superiors what had happened.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:09PM
No, the article does not say that.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170215150740/http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/us/citizen-nasa-engineer-detained-at-border-trnd/ [archive.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:25PM
Yes, it does. The quote is from the second link (The Verge one):
Eventually, the phone was returned to Bikkannavar, though he’s not sure what happened during the time it was in the officer’s possession. When it was returned he immediately turned it off because he knew he had to take it straight to the IT department at JPL. Once he arrived in Los Angeles, he went to NASA and told his superiors what had happened. Bikkannavar can’t comment on what may or may not have been on the phone, but he says the cybersecurity team at JPL was not happy about the breach. Bikkannavar had his phone on hand while he was traveling in case there was a problem at work that needed his attention, but NASA employees are obligated to protect work-related information, no matter how minuscule. We reached out to JPL for comment, but the center didn’t comment on the event directly.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:33PM
There was speculation that it had to do with his apparent racial background. That could be true, although I'd consider it more likely if his name was, say, "Mahmoud" or "Hussein".
But there's another potential explanation: Recently, NASA employees have been taking their research data and ensuring it gets stored off government systems, because the Trump administration has been making it perfectly clear that they'll be trying to get rid of data that doesn't conform to their ideology. The NASA employees' actions are not illegal, because that data was public information, but it is also obviously considered contrary to what the POTUS wants them to do. That combination would be exactly the kind of thing that would get the federal government harassing NASA people using every barely-legal dirty trick in the book.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @03:53PM
Pretty sure any Americans named Hussein carry the long form birth certificate by now...even if it's their middle name.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:05PM
There was speculation that it had to do with his apparent racial background. That could be true, although I'd consider it more likely if his name was, say, "Mahmoud" or "Hussein".
You give these guys way too much credit.
He's brown, his name sounds indiany and there are 300M+ muslims in india.
You always hear the apologists say "islam is not a race" but to the actual racists its a distinction without a difference - especially when you hear about sikhs getting attacked by people who think they are muslim. Orientalism has been mixing up all the eastern brown people for centuries. Hindu, muslim, sikh, buddhist, parsi, etc — they are all a bunch of hajjis...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:02PM
10 years ago is the last time I flew. Fat, middle aged white guy, US citizen with an American name. I was asked to boot my laptop, turn on my phone and take my shoes off. Was I discriminated against?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:15PM
If I were a foreign power trying to spy on the US, placing my agents inside the TSA would be perfect... they can steal all the sensitive material they lay hands on! A day like this when a NASA / JPL phone comes in .. bonus payment times. Who checks the checkers who check on the checkers? Just sayin.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @09:58PM
Du bist terrorist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIA0jeW-24 [youtube.com]
YOU are the terrorist