Microsoft's President Brad Smith is calling for a Digital Geneva Convention:
Microsoft is calling for a Digital Geneva Convention, as global tensions over digital attacks continue to rise. The tech giant wants to see civilian use of the internet protected as part of an international set of accords, Brad Smith, the company's president and chief legal officer, said in a blog post.
The manifesto, published alongside his keynote address at the RSA conference in San Francisco on Tuesday, argued for codifying recent international norms around cyberwarfare and for establishing an independent agency to respond to and analyze cyberattacks.
From the blog post:
Just as the Fourth Geneva Convention has long protected civilians in times of war, we now need a Digital Geneva Convention that will commit governments to protecting civilians from nation-state attacks in times of peace. And just as the Fourth Geneva Convention recognized that the protection of civilians required the active involvement of the Red Cross, protection against nation-state cyberattacks requires the active assistance of technology companies. The tech sector plays a unique role as the internet's first responders, and we therefore should commit ourselves to collective action that will make the internet a safer place, affirming a role as a neutral Digital Switzerland that assists customers everywhere and retains the world's trust.
Also at The Seattle Times and USA Today.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Justin Case on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:25PM
I have an idea. Let's establish an international precedent that "I was just doing my job" is not an admissible excuse for creating crappy software.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:41PM
By "crappy software", it is unclear whether you mean:
1. Software for hacking, penetration, espionage, and cyber warfare.
or
2. Microsoft products. (Based on the context of the article)
or something else?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Justin Case on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:45PM
Software is a tool. What you do with it is on you.
By crappy software I meant software that is badly designed, sloppily coded, or deliberately malicious toward the user. If you choose to infer that MS creates a lot of that, I can't argue.
(Score: 3, Informative) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:25PM
Actually, computer ethics is a field where it is attempted to develop ethical rules for system administrators, software developers and related professions. I think it is justified to expect from professionals zo think about the consequences of their developments.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday February 16 2017, @04:49AM
Vapors coming back home to roost?
He who smelt it dealt it. [wiktionary.org]
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Thursday February 16 2017, @12:04PM
Software is a tool. What you do with it is on you.
Morally speaking, that's hardly the whole story.
Not all software-development is morally neutral. Neither are all arms-sales.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @12:39PM
"Software is a tool. What you do with it is on you.
By crappy software I meant software that is badly designed, sloppily coded, or deliberately malicious toward the user. If you choose to infer that MS creates a lot of that, I can't argue."
Don't forget hardware...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:04PM
Most software is created by teams of people, not lone coders. Teams of people require management, both to coordinate their actions, and to decide on what to do. Individual developers at a company have no real freedom to decide what to code, or how to do it. One module can be excellent, but if the overall architecture is crap, the product is going to be crap, and the individual developer who wrote the good module isn't to blame, it's the software architect. In other cases, there's not nearly enough time allocated, and that's clearly the fault of management, leading to products rushed out the door far too early.
Ultimately, the responsibility for crappy software lies with management, at all layers in a company.
Worse, at least 99% of software out there is "crappy", so it's not like punishing individual developers is going to improve things.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:34PM
Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob) advocates for a professional association that can discipline coders "just following orders".
VW [8thlight.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:52PM
"Uncle Bob" is an idiot. He's trying to make software engineering out to be a profession akin to doctors. We're not. Get over it: we are NOT like doctors. We do not have the same level of responsibility, nor do we have the same levels of education or pay. Most importantly, we do not have the same level of autonomy. Doctors basically work for themselves. So do many other "professionals" that Uncle Bob and people like him compare software engineers to. Those civil engineers who are liable for their bridge designs? They're not low-level monkey workers at some MegaCorp, they're very high-level people at professional engineering firms, and they're licensed by the state as Professional Engineers. They really do answer to a higher authority. We do not. We are nothing more than low-level grunts, who happen to make a pretty good living these days because of the newness of the industry. We follow orders, or we get fired; it's that simple. We don't get vindication if we blow the whistle; this has been seen over and over again throughout our society: whistleblowers end up never working in their industry again, and become pariahs, while their bosses go scot-free and continue running their businesses badly until someone dies, and even then nothing happens except maybe a lawsuit.
So spare me the "professional" BS. We are not doctors, and we're not Professional Engineers. We have no more responsibility for our actions, unless it's plainly obvious someone will get killed (and emissions don't count here, otherwise engineers who work at lawn equipment makers should all be going to prison, as typical 2-cycle lawn equipment is FAR more polluting than any VW diesel engine), than some salesman who sells crappy products.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:30PM
I'm not disagreeing. However that seems pretty off topic.
People love to argue about stuff that doesn't matter, but in a general sense the whole point of the Geneva Convention was to make war more humane. So no bayoneting prisoner, no medical experiments on prisoners, no torture, no intentionally attacking medics or wounded or hospitals although war being hell accidents will happen, etc. So these guys going on and on about Geneva Conventions this and that imply to me we'll put all the hospitals and nuclear power plants and delicious targets in general into maybe one big /8 of ip space and have a gentlemans agreement that national governments won't attack hospital networks but go ahead wipe every server facebook has or whatever. The problem is most internet attacks are like nuts and gangs and what amounts to pirates, so this is pretty useless. Hey all you people currently causing trouble, we put all the delicate high value stuff over here so we'd really appreciate it if you'd be nice and oh shit you just DDOSed the nuclear missile launch system resulting in an auto-launch, you bastards...
They also have the weird idea that tech companies are first responders and somehow responsible, which is pretty much like saying bicyclists who get run over by cars driven by illegal immigrants being pursued by police on the streets should work a little harder at treating their resulting medical problems because after all they are the first people on the scene of a car-bike accident and if they were smart enough to bicycle in plate mail at least some damage would be negated oh and by the way everyone else washes their hands of responsibility so I hope you got good medical coverage because the ER is gonna be expensive.
Finally the concept of a digital neutral Switzerland sounds weird as hell, did he post that on 4chan or IRC? Or he means swiss as in their legendary (now faded into legend) banking system in which case he means bitcoin should be centralized and controlled (by you know who to the sole advantage of you know who) or maybe he's just an idiot and is thinking of digital Switzerland as in chocolate and swiss army knives. In which case I think an e-store for selling chocolates is less important than a nuclear power plant SCADA system, and we already have a swiss army knife of the internet its called Perl, although some call it a swiss army chainsaw. Switzerland isn't neutral anyway, they are soundly on the establishment side and love getting involved in economic wars, they just don't have much of a military and their terrain is crap place to live, kinda like NYC in many ways if you think about it.
What I'm sayin is you're talking about what you'd like to see in international relations and I can't disagree much. But they're talking (mostly out of their ass, comedically) about what they would want to see in international internet relations and much as it relates to, well, everything else, what the 1% want is usually not all that nice for the 99%.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:13PM
Legitimate question -- that's what a 'professional engineer' certification is, right?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:31PM
Because developing, nevermind being force to run a Microsoft operating system should be considered a war crime.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:43PM
More likely call it a crime against humanity since such atrocities and their upgrades are often released during peace time. (Note the US is not currently "at war".)
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Wednesday February 15 2017, @04:53PM
Calculate the number of life-minutes that were lost when 6,000 people met their ends on 9-11.
Now calculate the number of life-minutes wasted worldwide over the past decades watching some stupid spinner or "progress" bar.
Which is the bigger crime?
Hint: your computer exists to serve you, not to tell you what to do. If your computer tells you to wait (instead of letting you do something else) you're Doing It Wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:08PM
6,000 people met their ends on 9-11.
3000
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @07:51AM
Never forget.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday February 16 2017, @05:36AM
The first, as those people had no chance to avoid losing those minutes. Nobody forces you to watch a spinner or progress bar.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday February 16 2017, @02:09PM
Be it enacted by Congress, henceforth all spinners or progress bars shall be required to have unskippable advertisements which promote the increased use of both Clean Coal and Fossil Fuels.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:30PM
Didn't one of Trump's mucky-mucks just publicly state within the last couple of days that the U.S. is a country at war?
(Or was he just counting the U.S.'s Wars on Crime, Drugs, Terror, Poverty, Dark-Skinned People, Muslims, Women, etc.?)
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:45PM
It's highly Ironic that US prosecutors wield a "disturbing the peace" catch-all offense, when so much of the economy and politics is based on people being always afraid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:49PM
He meant the "War on Poverty" Johnson administration, or the "War on Drugs" of Nixon's, or Chairman Mao's "War on the Four Evils", or possibly Mayor Jones' "War on Potholes"! Yes, we have always been at war with something.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bootsy on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:11PM
Of course they want this as the cloud based application as a service approach won't work if the public internet is constantly discrupted by nation state sponsored cyber attacks.
Another good reason not to rent software but to buy outright or use open source/free software.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @12:47PM
"Of course they want this as the cloud based application as a service approach won't work if the public internet is constantly discrupted by nation state sponsored cyber attacks."
It also won't work if worthless, piece-o-shit, scamming, ad-injecting ISPs like CenturyLink continue to exist.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:28PM
What makes MS, or anyone else, think this could possibly work, or that nation-states would be interested in supporting it? The big nation-states are the ones doing many of the cyberattacks. They're not going to stop because of some agreement. At best, they'll give it lip service and then keep on hacking.
Of course, the tech companies could come up with their own agreement, but that too is useless unless they all move all their operations to Switzerland or the Moon: the governments will simply force them to comply with their hacking and surveillance efforts, using National Security Letters here in the US for example.
Finally, for the real Geneva Convention, as TFA says the Red Cross was involved to police it. The Red Cross is an international non-profit humanitarian body, not a for-profit corporation. Why would we want to trust for-profit corporations, who will simply push us to use their shoddy, compromised products and services (with useless promises that they're "safe" and "secure") so they can make more money, instead of directing us to Free/Open-Source alternatives where we really can inspect the code for vulnerabilities and back-doors, make any fixes we want, and there's no profit motive at work?
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by jmorris on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:39PM
I suspect the idea is like the old Soviet era extensions to the Geneva Conventions. We in the West would have (political pressure from the usual NGO community) to obey while our enemies wouldn't obey, even if they signed or were even capable of signing.
Microsoft supports this for two primary reasons. One is the simple one, they are a SJW converged entity. The more interesting one is self interest. As cyberwar becomes mainstream nobody is going to want to have a Microsoft OS since they are roach motels distributed from a U.S. based corporation. The promise that nobody will attack civilian IT operations in Western and "non-aligned" areas will calm the market... for a few years until stupid people realize the ones launching attacks against them aren't playing along. IT shops in enemy areas will keep buying because they willl be fairly sure the U.S. not only won't break the deal and attack 'civilian' IT they will be effectively barred from any cyber attack other than very targeted ops against WMD and other special high value targets.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:12PM
Yup this is more of the same SJW virtue signaling that Microsoft is famous for. Notice how they didn't blog about this when their Dem cronies were in power. Just a cheap shot at Trump.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by turgid on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:55PM
Ding ding ding!
...and...
The two hackneyed terms employed by the Alt-Wrong when stupid signalling their bigotry.
Congratulations!
BTW, Microsoft are evil.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:49PM
Ironically, the very specific terminology J-Mo uses (virtue signalling, cuck, SJW, Dork...err, DARK Enlightenment, etc) is itself a form of virtue signalling.
...except he hasn't got any actual virtue to signal. What do we call it? Vice Signalling? Posturing? Dogwhistling? Haldol deficiency?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:32PM
Who is going to sign on to such a convention? Maybe half the world's governments? That's kinda impressive, except, the NSA, FBI and other alphabet agencies will ignore it. Ditto with the rest of the Five Eyes.
The Geneva Conventions never have applied to common criminals, so the non-government people most likely to target me are unaffected.
The net result of any such convention, will be nonsensical grand standing with some few cases that just happen to fit someone's agenda with the proper spin put on it.
And, this is MICROSOFT'S IDEA? There's got to be money hidden in this thing somewhere. Isn't Microsoft a major government contractor? Yeah, there's money in it. Microsoft isn't going to do anything for free.
(Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:42PM
I have not read TFA yet (up modded somebody who obviously did), but the motivation is simple:
Microsoft wants to remain the dominant OS supplier for a variety of devices.
That does not work if multitudes of "civilian" users migrate to something more secure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:16PM
When their old customers start dying off maybe we'll see cracks in the MS monopoly on cell phones.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @11:32PM
You pay the Microsoft tax every time you buy a cell-phone.
- Barnes & Noble Blows The Lid Off Microsoft's Android Patent Squeeze [networkworld.com]
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:38PM
So that we can do the same as superpowers. Force the little guys to follow it while we ignore it.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 15 2017, @05:55PM
The Geneva convention is doing a pretty lousy job of protecting civilians in a war zone. Either way, trust is paramount, and we just don't have that in this world of corruption and gangsterism.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 15 2017, @10:58PM
The blog specifically mentioned the Fourth Geneva Convention, which was in 1949. Nothing that happened before then counts. And it does seem to be working, with the possible exceptions of the First Indochina War, Paraguayan Civil War, Costa Rican Civil War, First Arab-Israeli War, Malayan Emergency, Chinese Invasion of Tibet, Korean War, Mau Mau Uprising, Second Indochina War, Vietnam War, Laotian Civil War, Cambodian Civil War, Algerian War of Independence, First Sudanese Civil War, Suez War (Second Arab-Israeli War), Hungarian Uprising, Cuban Revolution, Ifni War, Lebanon crisis of 1958, "Congo Crisis", Guatemalan Civil War, Bay of Pigs Invasion, Angolan War of Independence, Invasion of Goa, Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation,
Guinea-Bissauan War of Independence, Sino-Indian War,
Indonesian annexation of Western New Guinea, Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation, Yemen Civil War, Dhofar Rebellion, Sand War, Mozambican War of Independence, Colombian Armed Conflict, Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, Chadian Civil War, Indonesian Civil War, South African Border War, Namibian War of Independence, Second Chimurenga(Rhodesian Bush War), Six-Day War (Third Arab-Israeli War), Nigerian Civil War, Communist insurgency in the Philippines, War of Attrition, Islamic Insurgency in the Philippines, Football War, Sino-Soviet border conflict, The Troubles in Northern Ireland, Bangladesh Liberation War, Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, Libya-Sudan conflict, Yom Kippur War (Fourth Arab-Israeli War), Turkish Invasion of Cyprus, Ethiopian Civil War, Angolan Civil War, Western Sahara conflict, Lebanese Civil War, Indonesian invasion of East Timor, East Timorese War of Independence, Mozambican Civil War, Independence War in Cabinda,Libyan-Egyptian War, Ogaden War, Cambodian-Vietnamese War, Israeli Invasion of Lebanon, The Aceh War, Uganda-Tanzania War, Chadian-Libyan conflict, Sino-Vietnamese War, First Chadian Civil war, Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, Soviet war in Afghanistan, Chadian-Libyan conflict, El Salvador Civil War, Iran-Iraq War, Internal conflict in Peru, Paquisha War, Ugandan Bush War, Falklands War, Israeli Invasion of Lebanon, U.S. Invasion of Grenada, Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka, Second Sudanese Civil War, Kurdish insurgency in Turkey, Free Papua Movement, Siachin War, Agacher Strip War, First Intifada, Second Ugandan Civil War, Casamance Conflict, Somali Civil War, Nagorno-Karabakh war, Mauritania-Senegal Border War, U.S. Invasion of Panama, First Liberian Civil War, Romanian Revolution, Kashmir conflict, Gulf War, Rwandan Civil War, Tuareg Rebellion, Algerian Civil War, Yugoslav Wars, Slovenian War, Croatian War of Independence, Bosnian War, Presevo valley crisis, Macedonia conflict, Georgian Civil War, South Ossetian War, War in Abkhazia, Sierra Leone Civil War, Tajikistan Civil War, Conflict in the Niger Delta, Burundi Civil War, Ethnic conflict in Nagaland, India, Brazilian gang violence, 1994 Yemeni Civil War, First Chechen War, Second Chadian Civil War, NATO bombing of Republika Srpska, Cenepa War, First Congo War, Nepal Civil War, Unrest in Albania, Ethiopia-Eritrea War, U.S. bombings of Afghanistan and Sudan, U.S. bombing of Iraq, Second Congo War, Ituri Conflict, Kargil War, Dagestan War, Second Chechen War, Second Liberian Civil War, Al-Aqsa Intifada, Conflict in Laos involving the Hmong, Indo-Bangladesh Border Conflict of 2001, U.S. Invasion of Afghanistan, Civil War in Cote d'Ivoire, Balochistan conflict, Pakistan, Central African War, Darfur conflict, Sudan, Central African Republic Civil War, Chad-Sudan conflict, Central African War, Iraq War, Waziristan War, Haiti rebellion, Sa'dah conflict, Israel-Lebanon conflict, Palestinian factional violence, Mexican Drug War, and the War in Somalia.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 16 2017, @01:05AM
Trying to read your comment was like a war of attrition. I lost.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:40PM
Wait.......what are they calling for?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 15 2017, @06:53PM
It is highly unusual for the weapons themselves to be calling for a convention. And besides, there is already the Tallinn Manual.
(Score: 2, Troll) by aristarchus on Thursday February 16 2017, @08:47AM
Oh, obviously no one has heard of the Tallinn Manual [wikipedia.org] Kind of a big deal for cyberwarfare, when it came out. But obviously no Microsoft involvement, since they are a weapon and not a party to any international agreements. I am surprised more Soylentils are not up to date on the international laws as regards getting a total idiot elected president of America!
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Thursday February 16 2017, @04:35PM
getting a total idiot elected president of America!
They've all been total idiots. It is a prerequisite for the job -- no, for the career choice.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @03:44AM
The Talinn manual? It's almost funny. We have real war crimes taking place in the world. Among them are UN troops run amok, raping innocent women in Africa. And, these experts are placing cyber attacks and cyber crime on the same level as real war crimes?
Large portions of the world's population has no access, or limited access, to clean, healthy water, many of them due to war. And, experts are as concerned about internet access as they are about access to clean, safe water?
As much as I value my electronic devices, and access to the world outside my home area, those electronics simply can't be compared to food, water, and shelter. Electronic crimes cannot be compared to rape, robbery, murder, and mutilation. Electronic acts of war can't be compared to firebombing a city.
If "developed" nations are vulnerable to cyberwarfare, they have no one but themselves to blame. There are no stone tablets, written by the finger of God, commanding nations to commit the security of infrastructure, and military command to electronic devices. Nor is there a law that commands that these networks be accessible by outside networks.
If your local water/electricity/traffic control systems go down to a cyberattack, then your elected and appointed officials need to be crucified, because they have completely and utterly failed.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday February 17 2017, @11:49PM
As much as I value my electronic devices, and access to the world outside my home area, those electronics simply can't be compared to food, water, and shelter.
Point taken. But it is well to remember that a lot of this started as C's, as in attacking command and control, of the military. Then it was command, control, communications. And C4: command, control, communication and computers! DARPANet was designed to be all of that, and to be able to survive, to various levels of "survive", a nuclear attack.
The danger is that all these is the tendency to group everything into the "target" category using the concept of "dual-use". This is why the US claimed it was legitimate to take out water-purification plants and electrical power. And the same would apply to internet communications: the hostile is only directly attacking the military use of said infrastructure, so the impact on non-combatants is unintentional.
Of course the creeping nature of such justifications soon can remove that distinction. The 4C's transform into "information warfare", were information, and dis-information, become weapons, and weapons directly and intentionally targeted at civilians, and most often the military's own civilians, because (in democratic societies at least) they have the greatest ability to defeat the military by removing its funding. It's all fake news from here on out, comrade!
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday February 15 2017, @07:42PM
Our current business model relies on delivering software reliably & securely over public infrastructure. Unfortunately, developing such products and technology will obsolete our service-providing business model as soon as those products hit the market.
After putting our best minds on the job, they quit. So we hired a few lawyers from the music industry and came up with the following: We will have all the bribe-able countries promise to enforce "security rules" on the public's expense to guarantee our broken business will keep operating. Thus, adding ourselves to the long established security theater that has graced this proud nation since circa 18th century.
Thank you for making ~insert your favorite country \ sports team \ brand name~ great again,
Microsoft
compiling...
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Wednesday February 15 2017, @08:50PM
The fact is that the everyday person does need digital rights. However no cares has the consumer's interests.
The governments want to surveil everyone... They want to find extremists both in and out of their own country and keep ahead of the other countries. Many are even willing to do state sponsored industrial espionage to help their won economy. Lets be blunt... they don't care if they impact their own citizens either... and even happy to turn that overt surveillance into a win by solving a few misdemeanors for the "common good."
Corporations already know what you are doing online. Hell, most people tell them voluntarily for use of a few baubles. After all, the ability to "poke" someone is well worth turning all my profile information over to some company I never heard of. Microsoft definitely wants to keep this ability... They probably just don't want to hand the information over for free... they probably want to charge the governments just as much for supeopnas as they do to their business partners.
In realit the one thing that people need most is anonymity, not to be tracked everywhere you go online, and affordable high speed access... and no business or government wants to stick up for the rights of everyone in the world when their true goal is the opposite.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P