Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 16 submissions in the queue.
posted by Fnord666 on Friday February 17 2017, @08:17PM   Printer-friendly
from the just-say-ah dept.

The ACLU has sued the San Diego Police Department, seeking the destruction of DNA samples collected from minors during a stop that was found to be unlawful:

Specifically targeting black children for unlawful DNA collection is a gross abuse of technology by law enforcement. But it's exactly what the San Diego Police Department is doing, according to a lawsuit just filed by the ACLU Foundation of San Diego & Imperial Counties on behalf of one of the families affected. SDPD's actions, as alleged in the complaint, illustrate the severe and very real threats to privacy, civil liberties, and civil rights presented by granting law enforcement access to our DNA. SDPD must stop its discriminatory abuse of DNA collection technology.

According to the ACLU's complaint, on March 30, 2016, police officers stopped five African American minors as they were walking through a park in southeast San Diego. There was no legal basis for the stop. As an officer admitted at a hearing in June 2016, they stopped the boys simply because they were black and wearing blue on what the officers believed to be a gang "holiday."

Despite having no valid basis for the stop, and having determined that none of the boys had any gang affiliation or criminal record, the officers handcuffed at least some of the boys and searched all of their pockets. They found nothing but still proceeded to search the bag of one of the boys—P.D., a plaintiff in the ACLU's case. (It's standard to use minors' initials, rather than their full names, in court documents.) The officers found an unloaded revolver, which was lawfully registered to the father of one of the boys, and arrested P.D.

The officers told the other four boys that they could go free after submitting to a mouth swab. The officers had them sign a consent form, by which they "voluntarily" agreed to provide their DNA to the police for inclusion in SDPD's local DNA database. The officers then swabbed their cheeks and let them go.

P.D. was then told to sign the form as well. After he signed, the officers swabbed his cheek and transported him to the police department. The San Diego District Attorney filed numerous charges against P.D., but they were all dropped as a result of the illegal stop. The court did not, however, order the police to destroy either P.D.'s DNA sample or the DNA profile generated via his sample. The ACLU seeks destruction of the sample and profile, along with a permanent injunction "forbidding SDPD officers from obtaining DNA from minors without a judicial order, warrant, or parental consent."


Original Submission

Related Stories

Politics: DNA Databases in the U.S. and China are Tools of Racial Oppression 166 comments

DNA Databases in the U.S. and China Are Tools of Racial Oppression

Two major world powers, the United States and China, have both collected an enormous number of DNA samples from their citizens, the premise being that these samples will help solve crimes that might have otherwise gone unsolved. While DNA evidence can often be crucial when it comes to determining who committed a crime, researchers argue these DNA databases also pose a major threat to human rights.

In the U.S., the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has a DNA database called the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) that currently contains over 14 million DNA profiles. This database has a disproportionately high number of profiles of black men, because black Americans are arrested five times as much as white Americans. You don't even have to be convicted of a crime for law enforcement to take and store your DNA; you simply have to have been arrested as a suspect.

[...] As for China, a report that was published by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute in mid-June claims that China is operating the "world's largest police-run DNA database" as part of its powerful surveillance state. Chinese authorities have collected DNA samples from possibly as many as 70 million men since 2017, and the total database is believed to contain as many as 140 million profiles. The country hopes to collect DNA from all of its male citizens, as it argues men are most likely to commit crimes.

DNA is reportedly often collected during what are represented as free physicals, and it's also being collected from children at schools. There are reports of Chinese citizens being threatened with punishment by government officials if they refuse to give a DNA sample. Much of the DNA that's been collected has been from Uighur Muslims that have been oppressed by the Chinese government and infamously forced into concentration camps in the Xinjiang province.

Related:


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Nerdfest on Friday February 17 2017, @08:24PM

    by Nerdfest (80) on Friday February 17 2017, @08:24PM (#468330)

    Well, I guess it's better than unlawful donation of DNA *to* minors.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:48PM (#468335)

      Jerry Sandusky [wikipedia.org] and his son, Jeffrey Sandusky [npr.org], would like a word with you about that joke...

    • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Friday February 17 2017, @09:26PM

      by butthurt (6141) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:26PM (#468353) Journal

      "Laws in 27 states do not specify an age below which a child cannot marry."

      /comments.pl?sid=17973 [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:37PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:37PM (#468332)

    seeking the destruction of DNA samples collected from minors during a stop that was found to be unlawful:

    Hahaha... hohoho.... oh wow...
    Those things have already been uploaded the TIDE and a whole slew of other databases. Sure, the SDPD will 'destroy' them but if you think that the data will be removed, I've got a bridge to sell ya...

    We do these kinds of things to criminals, not to innocent people. It just goes to show even more that, these days, everyone is a criminal, terrorist, suspect. Guilty until proven otherwise!
    Welcome to the USA, land of perpetually afraid & cowardly and free of the brave.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:42PM (#468357)

      I would be very, very surprised if they didn't already have at least one copy of everyone's chromosomes who was born after 1980.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:46PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @08:46PM (#468334)

    they stopped the boys simply because they were black and wearing blue on what the officers believed to be a gang "holiday."

    With all the intel that is collected on everyone inside this police state called the USA, you'd think they'd KNOW whether or not today is a gang holiday or not (whatever a gang holiday is).

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:41PM (#468356)

      whatever a gang holiday is

      A new and fun form of probable cause so the police can stop and search any minority they want?

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 17 2017, @10:39PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday February 17 2017, @10:39PM (#468386) Homepage

        Gangs, like organized religions, have all kinds of silly rituals to include holidays.

        "Pouring out liquor* for the homies" is one of my personal favorites.

        * Malt Liquor, that is. Fizzy gold. Tec-9 tea.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mr_bad_influence on Friday February 17 2017, @08:52PM

    by mr_bad_influence (3854) on Friday February 17 2017, @08:52PM (#468336)

    The officers had them sign a consent form, by which they "voluntarily" agreed to provide their DNA

    If a minor cannot legally sign a contract, how can their signature legally consent to providing DNA?

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:00PM (#468340)

      Listen, your honor, these could be 'bad guys'(tm)... I'm just doing my job which is super hard and I could be dead any day by just doing my job. After all, every single one of these suspects... I mean people, is out to kill me every single moment of every single day. I mean, I am a police office, or as you plebs should refer to us "a hero". Without me, society as you know it would collapse, and you wouldn't want that, now, would you?
      Now how about you stop asking awkwrd questions and tell me where my medal is at?

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by jmorris on Friday February 17 2017, @09:09PM

    by jmorris (4844) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:09PM (#468343)

    While some pink judge might have ruled it a bad stop, sounds like their 'cop instinct' was working perfectly, they caught a minor carrying a weapon. Odds are that all of them were up to no good and the cops picked up on it like they were trained to do. Getting their DNA and fingerprints into the system is a most excellent idea since the odds of more than one of those five serving more than a decade of their lives in prison is over 95%, but that will only come at the end of a long crime spree, hopefully shortened by having prints and DNA already on file.

    What sort of insane world have Progs inflicted upon us when the innocent live in fear of the State and the guilty laugh at its impotence.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:14PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:14PM (#468347)

      While some pink judge might have ruled it a bad stop, sounds like their 'cop instinct' was working perfectly, they caught a minor carrying a weapon.

      Because carrying weapons is such an unusual thing for people in the United States to do. Next you'll tell me that one of the kids was carrying a beer, too!

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by jmorris on Friday February 17 2017, @09:35PM

        by jmorris (4844) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:35PM (#468355)

        Perhaps you didn't read the summary, we aren't talking about the backwoods in a Red State where kids with a shotgun is something that wouldn't really attract attention, we are dealing with a Blue Hell where handguns aren't generally legal without a license. The summary itself noted this, the kid's father has a license but a minor can't get a CCW anywhere I know of. If the kid stole his dad's handgun the odds are pretty good he planned to use it. And the point I was making was that the cops instinct was operating perfectly. So now we punish cops for guessing correctly.

        So straight up, is it the position of the ACLU and you that we should wait until the kids kill someone because it would be wrong to stop them before they kill because [???]. Because I can't see where anything fills in the ??? and results in a sentence that isn't insane.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Bot on Friday February 17 2017, @09:47PM

          by Bot (3902) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:47PM (#468360) Journal

          Indeed, I have seen kids with their personal .22 rifle, but with father and at the range. 4 underage guys with an unloaded weapon had better have a good reason to go roaming around, and if they had it it would be in the story. QED.

          All of this still makes the police procedures about DNA collection very questionable, no matter the potential usefulness. It's not as if one has to pick sides. I'd rather have a justice system where the police doesn't have to bend the rules (which will never happen when the ruling system needs criminals to do the dirty work and police to keep them under control), but, among all who bend rules, the police is one of the most dangerous.

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 17 2017, @10:26PM

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday February 17 2017, @10:26PM (#468378) Homepage

            The tragedy here is that the ACLU is compelled to defend obvious thugs, it would be much more palatable if the cops forced their collection methods on a lovable tranny or a respectable businessman for bogus reasons.

            California doesn't even have open-carry laws. To be fair they could have just been wearing their school colors since there are schools in the area with blue as a color, and the time of the arrest was around 3:30 p.m. on a Wednesday which could easily have been right after school but nothing excuses an underage person conceal-carrying a handgun in an urban area.

            It was right of the cops to mark those punks. I hope we hear a follow-up in a few years with one or more of those knuckleheads arrested during an armed robbery or something.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:09PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:09PM (#468572) Journal

            4 underage guys with an unloaded weapon had better have a good reason to go roaming around, and if they had it it would be in the story.

            I take it you didn't grow up in small town America. Kids get terribly bored because there isn't much to do. The parents are usually working 3 jobs to make ends meet, so there isn't a lot of adult supervision, either. With those two things kids can get up to all kinds of trouble. The ones who lived in the trailers by the slough down the hill from my town would do stuff like TFA describes all the time.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday February 18 2017, @05:30PM

              by Bot (3902) on Saturday February 18 2017, @05:30PM (#468645) Journal

              Kids get terribly bored because there isn't much to do.

              They get terribly bored because they are terribly boring. Not their fault, of course. They have been conditioned to be consumers, their social skills are modest for lack of practice and from the virtual world overlay which creates more problems.

              My gen, in a small town, did not have smartphones, so got along with 8 bit pc, pimped 50cc/125cc motorcycles (no way you kept it stock), instant cameras and boom boxes for the privileged, and soccer ball, volley ball, beach ball, tennis ball (still for soccer), deflated balls (dodgeball time), bikes, elastic band for underwear (two people holding it at various height, one doing the evolutions, dunno how it was named there in burger/sandwich land) for everybody. The hardcore guys played gilli-danda. A friend once had a psychology/whatever seminar with younger people, one of the exercise was playing tag, he absolutely destroyed them, to the point of feeling bad for them.

              Adult supervision consisting in an old cat lady tending a corner shop telling us not to trust the priest (we trusted no adult anyway).

              --
              Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:52PM (#468363)

          Go back to Britain you god damned redcoat.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @06:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @06:23AM (#468504)

            The British are coming! The British are coming! The British are coming!

        • (Score: 5, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday February 17 2017, @09:59PM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:59PM (#468364) Journal

          The position is not taking their DNA you goddamn goose-stepping Hell-bound sociopath. What the hell is hard about this?!

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Friday February 17 2017, @10:13PM

            by dyingtolive (952) on Friday February 17 2017, @10:13PM (#468370)

            BUT THE LAW IS DISPLAYING A CLEARLY UNFAIR LIIIIIIBRAL BAAAAAASSSIS!

            --
            Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
            • (Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Friday February 17 2017, @10:16PM

              by dyingtolive (952) on Friday February 17 2017, @10:16PM (#468372)

              and there's my sarc fail. BIIAAAASSSS. BIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAASSSSSSS!

              Also, never write job goals while posting on SN. Think "bias" and "basis" was a pretty bad swap? You should have seen what I did in the goals form I'm supposed to submit.

              --
              Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:32PM (#468381)

          Maybe they were up to no good and maybe they weren't, but an unloaded gun is much less dangerous than a loaded one. What if they had to deal with an unpleasant situation and brought the unloaded weapon as protection, unloaded specifically to avoid killing someone on accident. You're myopic worldview IS the problem, now go back to your basement and don't come back till you're a decent human being.

          I guess we're past the fake news bias you hate so much, oh wait, only cause this confirms your prejudice.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 17 2017, @11:02PM

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday February 17 2017, @11:02PM (#468393) Homepage

            It's all about minimizing risk - Any good thug knows that, especially in the age of the internet.

            For example, when carrying your minority-clobbering baseball bat in your car, be sure to also carry a mitt and/or baseball (and if you don't play baseball learn the rules and then take some medium-grit sandpaper to the ball and mitt to give them that authentic worn look). With regard to guns, a round or two could easily be picked up at a friend's house or hidden cleverly throughout urbana itself.

            If the kid didn't have any ill intent and just wanted to be "hard," then he was a stupid fuck taking that unloaded gun out into that part of town, because he could have been jacked and then the gun could have been misused by real criminals. That's the part of town where you stand with your back to the wall when waiting for the trolley because having your back to the wall is preferable to having a blind-spot and being ambushed. And, unless its a multiple-murder, it's gonna be at least 45 minutes before the cops respond to any calls -- leaving you all that time to hope all those knives will go away after they get your wallet. And if they're on meth, which Mexicans and South-Americans who are already predisposed to violence almost always are, they'll mark their territory on your forehead.

            The best part of all this is that that specific part of town is being advertised to out-of-state hipsters as "the next big thing" even though it's still soaked with urine, there are tent-cities on the sidewalks, because that's where all the social services are. You can see the look of regret on those hipsters' faces after they signed the mortgage paperwork on those $5000/mo "urban" condos. Jesus Christ does, after all, have a sense of humor and poetic justice.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:08PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:08PM (#468394)

              Gentrification doesn't happen overnight. Somebody has to have the first mover disadvantage.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:59PM (#468414)

              Think of the chiiiildrreeeennnnn. People like you almost make me go religious just so I can believe you'll suffer for eternity. Sadly I then think "nooo, he's just a misguided fool" and compassion takes over. Thankfully you psychopaths are a minority of humanity.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:18AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:18AM (#468442)

                In my experience those psychopaths are the vast majority of humanity. :(

            • (Score: 2) by JeanCroix on Saturday February 18 2017, @04:23PM

              by JeanCroix (573) on Saturday February 18 2017, @04:23PM (#468620)
              I used to get my hair cut at Two Roses down in Barrio Logan. Sunday morning was the ONLY time I'd go, because I knew they'd all be sleeping off Saturday night, or in church.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Friday February 17 2017, @11:30PM

          by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Friday February 17 2017, @11:30PM (#468402)

          where handguns aren't generally legal without a license.

          That sounds unconstitutional to me, and therefore null and void.

          So straight up, is it the position of the ACLU and you that we should wait until the kids kill someone because it would be wrong to stop them before they kill because [???].

          Because they haven't committed any crimes, bootlicker. Yes, we should wait until someone actually commits a crime before doing any DNA collection (and it should definitely be destroyed if they are not convicted), at the very least.

          You can't claim to want a small government but then go on to constantly worship thug officers when they violate people's rights. Or, maybe you can, but your hypocrisy will be obvious.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:15PM (#468349)

      I'll take a pink judge over a blue judge.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:45PM (#468359)

        I want a fuchsia one. :(

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:13PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:13PM (#468369)

          Those are the ones who really fuch ia over.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by art guerrilla on Friday February 17 2017, @09:23PM

      by art guerrilla (3082) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:23PM (#468352)

      dog almighty, urine idjit...
      by YOUR 'REASONING' we should pick up ALL white people on suspicion of drug posession/use, because they have higher rates than most...
      see how that works when you don't respect fundamental rights, but treat everyone -especially those of a darker hue- as a perp...
      you dont give a shit, a do-nothing wormtongue like you will likely never get sideways with The Man, and no doubt thank him for the tasing if you do...
      a coward dies a thousand deaths...

    • (Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Friday February 17 2017, @09:35PM

      by dyingtolive (952) on Friday February 17 2017, @09:35PM (#468354)

      It's the fault of excessive optimization: The innocent are easier and much safer to catch. Plus you can make them seem just guilty enough to settle for the plea, especially if they're not very pale. Everyone wins*, at least for the everyone that aren't the wrong guy at the wrong time getting shot for surrendering or getting the occasional flashbang in their baby's crib.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to march in lockstep protesting with our brightly colored fascist youth, but I'm not going to stop hating the just-worlders with their blue porch lights and "We love the police" signs either.

      * Everyone doesn't actually win.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Friday February 17 2017, @10:21PM

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday February 17 2017, @10:21PM (#468375) Journal

      What do you think of checkpoints on roads, in which the police stop all traffic to check that none of the travelers are doing anything illegal, such as transporting illegal drugs, driving while drunk, carrying a weapon, driving a stolen vehicle, etc. And, checking if any of the people are wanted for anything whatever, have a warrant out for their arrest, whether related to being on the road or not. Think we ought to do lots more checkpoints?

      We don't do that, for the very good reason that it's pretty damned unfair to impose delays and damage on the majority of passing people who have done nothing wrong. Police don't get to cause a gigantic traffic jam, and waste innocent citizens' time, which might be very valuable just then for a few. For instance, if such a check caused an ambulance to get stuck in the traffic and a patient to die who could have been saved if only they could have reached the hospital 5 minutes sooner, the police department and their political masters would be in a great deal of trouble. Petty crime fighting does not take priority over life and death.

      The same principle applies to minors walking in a park. Who knows where those 5 boys were going or what they were doing? They don't owe anyone any explanation and we have no right to demand one. Maybe they weren't doing anything, But the possibility that one or more of them was engaged in important activity in which lives or careers were hanging in the balance is why the police should not have stopped them. Maybe one of them was hurrying to deliver medicine to an elderly relative, or was rushing to get to a job and would be fired if late. When you have business on your mind, you're running errands on a tight schedule, picking up something at the grocery, dropping off a child at a school event, going to another meeting yourself, the last thing you need is for some unexpected police checkpoint to disrupt your day. I've had enough trouble with traffic jams caused by accidents. We all lose too much time to travel delays already without some idiot police dragnet action adding to it.

      As for DNA, if you're so hot to collect samples, why don't we do that for everyone at an early age, say when visiting the doctor for immunizations, or on the first day of school, or some such? Then there'd be no reason for conducting a random stop to collect samples in such a fragmentary and piecemeal fashion that can only be unfair. It's everyone, or it's only those who've been properly convicted of a serious crime, or it's no one. Accusation is not good enough to justify collection. But if you still think it's okay, why don't you, jmorris, report to the nearest law enforcement facility with the necessary equipment and allow them to collect samples of your DNA, and fingerprints, and mug shots too? Let's have your face available for inclusion in every lineup for witnesses to choose from when trying to identify crooks. And if you won't do that, then maybe it should be asked what crimes are you hiding? Because if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear, right? The police would NEVER make mistakes and accuse innocent people of crimes they didn't commit. Juries never get it wrong either. And let's dismiss all our lawmakers, because the law is perfect and no definitions of what are and are not crimes need further revisiting, nor do punishments need adjusting. 3 strikes and it's life, baby!

      • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Friday February 17 2017, @11:37PM

        by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Friday February 17 2017, @11:37PM (#468404)

        We don't do that, for the very good reason that it's pretty damned unfair to impose delays and damage on the majority of passing people who have done nothing wrong.

        But we do have DUI checkpoints. People 'justify' such unconstitutional nonsense by saying that driving a car on public roads is a privilege and therefore the government can arbitrarily force you to submit to any conditions it wants in exchange for the continued existence of your driving privileges, but people who make arguments like that are disgusting authoritarians. Maybe we should have checkpoints for people who walk on sidewalks or TSA thugs at public buses and trains (I think they've already begun this to some extent). Living in a particular city also isn't an absolute necessity, so maybe the government there should be able to arbitrarily suspend people's constitutional rights and tell people that they have the option to leave if they don't like it. I'm not sure where in the Constitution it says that the government can force you to surrender your rights in exchange for you being able to make use of a supposed privilege, but 'the ends justify the means'-type authoritarians seem to be able to find anything they want in that document when they're not ignoring it entirely.

        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by jmorris on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:18AM

          by jmorris (4844) on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:18AM (#468426)

          No, those are the rationalizations people use. The justification is when the situation gets out of control people will accept measures they wouldn't under more peaceful ones, and that is really all the justification required; most people will do what is needed and worry about rationalizing it later. Enough drunk drivers kill enough people and you see DUI checkpoints on Fri and Sat nights. Crime gets bad, and assuming one is living in a sane area (i.e. not ruled by Team Blue), the police start using their spideysense without worrying overly much about anklebiters at the ACLU. People get a sense the country is ruled by people who hate them, we get Trump as a reaction as the polite "muh constitution" token opposition finds itself replaced by the alt-right. Civilization is just a then veneer, it doesn't take much existential threat start changing the rules.

          The whole world is going into chaos at the moment, as that happens r turns to K and suddenly the rules will change worldwide. Ingrouping, law and order, violence properly directed at the chaotic, etc. will become the order of the day. This will bring stability, peace and plenty again and the wheel will turn once more. This will keep happening until we finally accept what we are and begin designing our civilization around it somehow. But the first step is recognizing the problem.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:31AM

            by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:31AM (#468429)

            The justification is when the situation gets out of control people will accept measures they wouldn't under more peaceful ones, and that is really all the justification required; most people will do what is needed and worry about rationalizing it later.

            Maybe that's all that's needed for cowardly, worthless authoritarians, but in the 'Give me liberty or give me death.' country, you'd think most people would be less cowardly and useless.

            Crime gets bad, and assuming one is living in a sane area (i.e. not ruled by Team Blue)

            Neither party is sane and neither party respects our rights.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @02:12AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @02:12AM (#468460)

              The 'give me liberty or give me death' crowd WERE the ones who stood up, did their patriotic duty, etc.

              You know what happened to them? They died for cowards, many before having the chance to breed. Those that did get a chance to breed often then stood up domestically for the world they wanted for themselves and their offspring. They were hammered down. Some of their children followed in their footsteps and ended up in either previously discussed situation. Those that didn't had the sense to become cowards and acquiesce to the majorities demands.

              That is the situation that allowed America to reach where it is today.

              I can't comment on other places in the world, but I imagine you could follow similar trends for who bred and who had commercial/political/etc success for not standing behind their principles.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @05:07AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @05:07AM (#468490)

              Free and brave lost! Get over it!

      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 17 2017, @11:38PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday February 17 2017, @11:38PM (#468405) Homepage

        " Maybe one of them was hurrying to deliver medicine to an elderly relative, or was rushing to get to a job and would be fired if late. "

        You don't need a concealed handgun unlawfully-carried to accomplish those things, unless you're in Pakistan or Afghanistan. Though I agree with you that street checkpoints are nothing but shakedowns at the expense of the many, for the benefit of the few.

        Cops are not always the most intellectual people but their antennae are tuned to deception and fear, and they often have to be rock-turning assholes*. Don't want them fucking with you? Don't give them a reason to fuck with you. They hate paperwork as much as you do, and would rather you say, "yes sir I ran that red light" and let you off with a free finger-wagging than hear you say, "I refuse to speak to you, swine, my lawyer will do just that" and having to roll their eyes and do their damn job, making them late to their early-a.m. episode of SportsCenter.

        I'm starting to think that nerds hating cops is some kind of virtue-signaling and that 99% of those nerds never had any run-ins with cops outside of the occasional speeding-ticket.

        * There is a funny story about that. The now-dismantled highway checkpoint between El Centro and Pine valley did get a good catch -- A van full of U.S. Marines with GOV license plates pulled up to the checkpoint and was stopped by the guard and interrogated. The guard, having been a former Marine, did his usual "Hooah" schpiel and eyeballing the other marines, he then asked the driver in the Marine uniform, "What's the Marine Corps' birthday?" The driver in the Marine uniform couldn't answer, and as it turned out, the van was full of illegal immigrants wearing fake uniforms and using stolen GOV license plates.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @11:56PM (#468413)

          Fascist #2! We already knew, but nice to have another example to make sure there is no doubt.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by darnkitten on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:19AM

          by darnkitten (1912) on Saturday February 18 2017, @01:19AM (#468443)

          I'm starting to think that nerds hating cops is some kind of virtue-signaling and that 99% of those nerds never had any run-ins with cops outside of the occasional speeding-ticket...

          Don't want them fucking with you? Don't give them a reason to fuck with you....

          ...reasons like walking home at night (after work), coming from a fast food joint with a cup of soda in one hand and a bag of tacos in the other?...

          ...or like walking from the bus stop to my new apartment with backpack on and duffel in one hand hand and Mapquest printout in the other in a student neighborhood on the day before classes started? (to be fair, the cop in question couldn't have read the printout from the car)...

          -

          Just the first two examples off the top of my head--in both of those cases, the cops gave bullshit excuses about "incidents" in the neighborhood, neither of which were reported in the local blotters, and demanded ID and explanations for being in the area, as if it couldn't be inferred from what I was carrying.

          As far as I am able to tell, my suspicious behavior was "male walking in public with a ponytail," as the random stops ceased when I cut it off.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:23AM (#468427)

        3 strikes and it's life, baby!

        Perhaps you commit 3 strikes while in your mother's womb.
        Otherwise I can't explain how you get to be born straight into the country-wide prison the nowadays world calls USA

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 18 2017, @03:50PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 18 2017, @03:50PM (#468602) Journal

        Because if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear, right?

        Yeah, that's what I hear whenever I talk about privacy and facebook, etc.

        I remind them that some of the Jews in Germany during the rise of the Nazis were saying the same thing when they were told to register at the local police station. Look how that turned out for them... The smart ones, like Einstein, got the feck out.

        The problem with the world is, the Americans have screwed things around so that there is no longer a place to 'get the feck out' to.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:26PM (#468377)

      Fascist motherfucker showing his true colors. Such dangerous thinking that green lights violations of constitutional rights. Please sterilize yourself, we don't need any more sycophants.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:11PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @09:11PM (#468346)

    Is not where you want to walk down the street if you're white. On the other hand, SDPD are pretty much the worst a-holes of any police force in the area, but so is the ACLU.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:21PM (#468374)

      I, for one, welcome our new ACLU police force.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17 2017, @10:43PM (#468387)

        If that ever happened, all crackers would be arrested.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:04AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @12:04AM (#468420)

          Annnd you're an idiot. I'd elaborate if I thought it would help, guess you'll have yo learn the hard way over whatever time you have left on this earth. Hopefully sooner rather than later so you can be a happier person, along with not polluting our society with your crap.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @02:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 18 2017, @02:19PM (#468583)

            Found the SJW!

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 18 2017, @03:56PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 18 2017, @03:56PM (#468606) Journal

          Good thing I'm a Hoser, eh?

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---