At the University of California's San Francisco campus, 79 IT employees lost their jobs this week, some of them after explaining to their replacements at Indian outsourcing firm HCL how to do their jobs.
The union representing the employees, University Professional and Technical Employees CWA Local 9119, says it's the first time a public university has offshored American IT jobs.
In a statement sent yesterday, UPTE-CWA says the layoffs could spread, since the HCL contract can be utilized by any of the 10 campuses in the University of California system, the nation's largest public university. "US taxes should be used to create jobs in the US, not in other countries," said Kurt Ho, a systems administrator who was quoted in the union's press release. Ho was required to train his replacement as a condition of getting his severance pay.
In its statement on the matter, UCSF says that it was pushed to hire outside contractors due to "increased demand for information technology and escalating costs for these services." The university says it will save more than $30 million by hiring HCL, after seeing IT costs nearly triple between 2011 and 2016, "driven by the introduction of the electronic medical record and increased digital connectivity."
The university says 49 UCSF employees were laid off, and it will eliminate another 48 jobs that are currently vacant or filled by contractors. "UCSF will not replace UCSF IT employees with H-1B visa holders, nor will HCL," the university wrote in a statement e-mailed to Ars.
Of the 49 laid-off UCSF employees, 34 have either secured other employment or are retiring, the university said.
Source:
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The San Francisco Chronicle reports
A San Francisco technology company laid off a group of software engineers as they were trying to join a labor union, according to a complaint filed with the National Labor Relations Board.
The Communications Workers of America [CWA] claims Lanetix, which makes cloud-based software for transportation and logistics companies, violated federal labor laws by cutting 14 software engineers in January in San Francisco and Arlington, Va.
Most of the engineers were fired [January 26], about 10 days after they filed a petition seeking union representation, according to the complaint filed by the CWA's Washington-Baltimore Newspaper Guild. A hearing to determine a date to hold the union vote was scheduled for [February 1].
[...] While unions have made inroads in representing Silicon Valley bus drivers, security officers, food service workers, and custodians, the Lanetix case could break new ground because union activity is still unusual for software engineers, who are generally highly paid and in short supply, labor lawyers said.
[...] there are [reasons other than gripes about pay, whereby] unions can attract higher-paid tech workers, including "if you feel mistreated by the company or if you feel there's favoritism going on or lack of job security", said labor law attorney Steve Hirschfeld, founding partner of Hirschfeld Kraemer of San Francisco.
"There's a myth that if you're a highly paid employee, you either can't join a union or wouldn't be interested", Hirschfeld said.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05 2017, @11:14PM (4 children)
Trump should be focusing on this instead of his silly wire-taps claims.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @02:23AM (1 child)
He already did, or have you forgotten the H1B order he put out? This whole thing started before that order took effect.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by pe1rxq on Monday March 06 2017, @10:11AM
Since no H1B visa holders are involved in this case, how dit Trump's order have any effect on it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @03:08AM
Yeah silly or criminal... let me think.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @11:17PM
Not mutually exclusive. As for the wiretapping assertions, you have no evidence to either confirm or deny them, making the assertion that they are "silly" quite clearly demonstrate that you are suffering from considerable bias in regards to this issue and probably Trump in general, and as such any reasonable person exercising healthy skepticism should rightfully ignore your comment as complete and utter bullshit. The fact that at least 5 people decided to mod parent up speaks very poorly of the SN community.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05 2017, @11:28PM
But you knew that. I mean, all the high flying venture outfits in the last decade are all copycat "social" whatsit, and the ponzi scheme called uber managed to bilk billions and billions.
And oh, theranos. They made extraordinary claim on medical science, but packed their board with political figures.
I will let others continue this train of disgrace.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05 2017, @11:46PM (11 children)
It used to be that Universities were where all the advances in technology were made. Computer Science started there, especially in the UC system: It is not called BSD for no reason!
But now the PHBs that are the Administrators (Not actual scholars, scientists, or intellectuals at all) are prey to all the same software and systems salespersons as private business suffers from. My University is no longer able to run its own email server, it had to farm it out to Google! And they only saved one position's salary! From this, I can no longer use my email client, all my emails are searched by Google and the Same People who got to The Donald.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @12:00AM (6 children)
The Man at UCSF are medical researchers and government administrators. The admin would not have gone down this route without the consent of the medical faction - i.e., the medical faction sees the IT workers as expendable overpaid dullards.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Monday March 06 2017, @02:54AM (5 children)
And that's exactly why students should avoid STEM.
If you have a brilliant mathematical mind, consider something *important* to the business class... investment research. Banking. Marketing. How to use technology and
How to use technology, backed by laws signed by lobbied Congressmen, to compel others to your Business model.
Right now, we have a sick, diseased internet, that can't be trusted due to rampaging viral issues. So we lay off the people who should be investigating how to cure it.
( Because the cures will inevitably negate the backdoors many businesses and governments paid the software authors to implement in source code and lobbied Congressmen to hold them harmless for. )
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:01AM (2 children)
If you have a brilliant mathematical mind, consider something *important* to the business class... investment research. Banking. Marketing.
I saw an analysis recently which suggested, that even with all the crazy high salaries in those areas, the tech people who actually chose those jobs were the weakest students. They were only looking at MIT students, so its not like they were the dregs of a 2-year college. But there was a pretty clear self-sorting between the top-tier and the bottom-tier and it was the bottom-tier that took the wallstreet jobs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:51AM (1 child)
Could be the 100hr weeks and being treated like shit by the "real investment guys" and burning out at 40? Not so attractive as a (low paid) uni position for the top tier.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday March 06 2017, @10:53AM
The one thing I can say about STEM is its like music or art.... you do this because you have it in you. Its your passion.
However, don't count on it to support a family, lifestyle, or wife.
You may get lucky and get a job where you are appreciated.
But all too often, its like a gardener.... you may absolutely love doing this kind of stuff, but you are gone the instant your employer finds someone else who claims to do a passable job for less.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 06 2017, @03:10PM (1 child)
And that's exactly why students should avoid STEM.
If you have a brilliant mathematical mind, consider something *important* to the business class... investment research. Banking. Marketing. How to use technology and
How to use technology, backed by laws signed by lobbied Congressmen, to compel others to your Business model.
What would be the point of the consideration? What additional value do you bring over a bunch of MBA flunkies? STEM expertise is one of those things that a brilliant mathematical mind can do better. But you can't get the STEM knowledge without some sort of excursion formal or otherwise into these fields.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday March 07 2017, @07:04AM
I was trying to be absurd to the point of trying to get across how we as a nation are squandering the most important resource we have... our creativity.
Some nations have been around for centuries, and seemingly left little to show for it. Other nations have come along and improved things big time for all humanity.
We ( The USA ) used to be in that camp, but we seem to be willing to give it all away to protect the business interests of a few elite. ( Like all this "intellectual property" law being used to keep "commoners" ignorant of how their stuff works, and law that promotes "ownership" instead of research and production. )
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @02:09AM
Use S/MIME, and tell your friends to use it too. You can use most mail clients with Google mail: I read a gmail account with Alpine 2.20 and I have the same set up to encrypt with S/MIME, and I can't imagine many clients more backwards and antiquated than Alpine.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @04:56AM (1 child)
You are making a terrrrrrrrible assumption. That they ever could run their own systems. Most of what has come out of acadamia is IN SPITE of the bureaucracy in place.
Back when I was 'in it'. The CS dept usually had its shit together with computers (usually). But get outside of it or the math dept and it was a total disaster. You would regularly run into PHD tenured professors who had no clue on how to turn their computer on much less use it. Its 'better' now as most of that sort has aged out. But running an IT system takes work and time.
This case is 100% a cost cutting move. Something acadamia is ALSO very good at. I took classes in one building that was built in 1938. The last renovation was in 1953. I graduated in 1994. Last I heard they gave up on the building and just flattened it around 2010. The computers I used were from the early 80s except for some 'lock and key' servers you could access through a green screen terminal. There are 2 things that get funding, sports and 'research'. Everything else is a cost to be trimmed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:56AM
As long as by "research" you mean higher salaries for grant winners. Actual nose-to-the-ground researchers are cannon fodder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @02:25PM
ago.
The original IT department was one or two guys covering the district, plus staff in each room that had a full time IT presence. Over time it became a gestapo-like group of admin separate from the 'visible' school staff and only came around to say 'We've been watching you and that is in violation of network policy guidelines.' Then they started making you sign a contract every year about how you would use the school network. Hilariously, this lead to an open WLAN being implemented on campus, before it too was coopted, and began requiring student ID to log in (They had already leaked our SSNs twice, first via a school run server, then again via the Peoplesoft Web Portal used for Registration, which leaked ALL of us onto the internet.)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Dunbal on Monday March 06 2017, @12:23AM (4 children)
You get what you pay for. I'm pretty sure the training was half-assed, because people aren't stupid and they know when they're going to be replaced. So half assed employees with half assed training. I'll bet some manager got promoted and will get a fat bonus for this tremendous savings. And everything will seem ok until a few years down the road someone will realize what a massive clusterfuck happened when they just can't hide the damage anymore.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday March 06 2017, @01:45AM (1 child)
That's what I'm thinking: queue the queue of executives getting a bonus.
Should not be allowed, and I'm hoping they put some kind of programming bomb in the works, lol.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:58AM
cue is also a word, feel free to use it :) no charge
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday March 06 2017, @01:58AM
No-no-no-no, you don't get it.
You see, Indian grads are superior to the American ones, the latter are unprepared and unemployable.
It was the CEO of HCL who said it [computerworld.com].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by archfeld on Monday March 06 2017, @04:49AM
I trained my replacement who was an HB1 worker from India. He was actually a very nice hardworking and intelligent man. I almost felt sorry for him. I trained him which really just involved showing him the ropes he was a very well educated computer admin to start off. The only thing I did not give him was the DB I kept with all the passwords, IP's and router mapping. I kept that information on my personal PDA, a Compaq Ipaq at the time. Several weeks after I left the employer and was already on a contract I was contacted by him and the employer asking for help in recovering following a system failure which resulted in losing the configuration on the terminal server set up in the central lab which served more than 25 other locations. They were unwilling to meet my $500.00/hour request to work for them which I am told by friends still inside the company resulted in several weeks of downtime, many hours of travel time and a general rebuild of the entire lab structure. It seems info security failed to properly retain the passwords and that the network structure had been outsourced as well but never actually documented by them. The very large financial company has since closed the west coast DC I worked from and relocated to NC.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @12:33AM (11 children)
How is this shit even still legal? Forget Mexico, we need a wall around fucking India!
If it isn't made outright illegal for these TRAITORS to the United States of America to piss in the face of American citizens, then it needs to be taxed to the point where it is no longer profitable to do so!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @12:47AM (10 children)
It's us Americans, not Indians who pulled this off.
Forget foreign enemies. We need to cleanse out our own sell-out traitors.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @01:44AM (3 children)
Damn, that's what I meant. The ones DOING the outsourcing are the traitors. The Indians are just prawn. The ones doing the outsourcing need to be beaten, stomped on, burned, and beaten some more. If they love India so much perhaps they should GTFO and go live there. But as long as the math says these crapbags can save even a dollar by outsourcing they are going to continue doing it. This needs to be fixed ASAP.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @02:32AM (2 children)
I like prawns more than lobsters.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @05:01AM (1 child)
I think the AC prior to the AC meant "pawn", as in a chess piece that can only see what is directly ahead, has no comprehension of the larger context of the game, and therefore votes for Trump, because stupid is always the answer, when you're stupid. Or he could have been quoting Mongo, from "Blazing Saddles": "Mongo only pawn, in game of life." That fits. Common clay of the New Republican party, you know, morons!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:03AM
Thank you captain obvious.
I prefer crawdads.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by archfeld on Monday March 06 2017, @04:56AM (5 children)
It is not America, or India, it is the extra-national corporations who despite whatever legal documents they file exist outside of any nation and just take advantage of what ever is the most profitable jurisdiction at any given moment. For example currently Toyota produces more cars in the US and hence provides more jobs and money to the US workers than Ford does. Think of these companies in the terms of freebooters/privateers who fly a flag of convenience claiming the sovereignty of what ever nation fits the immediate need.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday March 06 2017, @07:10AM (1 child)
It is not America, or India, it is the extra-national corporations who despite whatever legal documents they file exist outside of any nation and just take advantage of what ever is the most profitable jurisdiction at any given moment. For example currently Toyota produces more cars in the US and hence provides more jobs and money to the US workers than Ford does. Think of these companies in the terms of freebooters/privateers who fly a flag of convenience claiming the sovereignty of what ever nation fits the immediate need. [emphasis added]
Many large corporations, especially the muti-nationals (or extra nationals as you call them, perhaps more accurately) do engage in this sort of thing, usually to the detriment of all involved, except the MBAs and top management.
However, that's not what we're discussing here. I understand that many don't read TFA or even TFS. But geez, Louise! can't you even read the headline? This is most certainly about the United States and, more specifically, the University of California [wikipedia.org]. a public university system.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Monday March 06 2017, @07:03PM
I was replying to a specific point, but you are correct in this story. A publically funded educational entity should be wholly directed at educating and providing jobs to US citizens or those that are here for that purpose. In the same vein I am personally against what the NCAA has done to the education system in the US by subverting its' actual purpose of education and monopolizing huge funds for sports vs actual education.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2, Insightful) by anubi on Monday March 06 2017, @07:13AM (1 child)
Yup, playing off one nation against another in the race to the bottom... socializing the costs while privatizing the profits.
I do not believe politicians will play too much in the future planet... it will be the multinational corporations. The politicians will serve the same function as a speaker in a radio receiver - their pontifications merely echo the current in their voice coil.
And we will still have our choice between speaker circuit D or speaker circuit R.
( Ummm... guess I am a little late with this... its already that way. )
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by pnkwarhall on Monday March 06 2017, @05:03PM
I do not believe politicians will play too much in the future planet... it will be the multinational corporations.
...said the cyberpunk prophesy of the last 30 years.
Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday March 06 2017, @03:50PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 4, Touché) by KilroySmith on Monday March 06 2017, @12:36AM (4 children)
So they're going to eliminate 97 jobs, hire some H1-B visa holders to replace them, and save $30 Million? That means they're saving roughly $300K per employee. That's a pretty nice IT job...
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Monday March 06 2017, @01:22AM (2 children)
I guarantee you they weren't earning 300k. In any case it is a public record and you can look it up.
subicular junctures
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @02:36AM (1 child)
You're right. As a rule of thumb I would divide that by at least two to get close to what the staff are getting paid.
Even if someone's take home pay is around $100k, there's employer taxes and the value of tuition benefits and other advantages that come from being a university employee.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @05:00AM
As a rule of thumb it is
Base rate +
401k/retirement usually 18k-25k. Depending on rate and matching.
10-20k for insurance. Used to be much lower but AHC...
8-10k for SSI.
All other taxes are picked up by the employee out of their base rate.
To get to 300k would mean they were pulling in at least 250k each.
Now they *may* be considering 'faculties'. But that is probably handwavy. As the replacements will need the exact same faculties.
(Score: 1) by Grayson on Monday March 06 2017, @09:35PM
I didn't see a time period listed there. It will save them $30 Million over how many years?
Also, did that also include facilities costs (offices, etc.)?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stretch611 on Monday March 06 2017, @06:01AM (3 children)
Obviously the school doesn't think its own graduates are worth the paper that they give out, or at least they would hire from their alumni.
If the school doesn't believe in the paper they are selling, why should anyone else. Everyone should transfer out immediately.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @07:46AM (1 child)
It gives out no undergrad degrees.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @09:43PM
Well, I guess it worked then, now didn't it?
(Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Monday March 06 2017, @11:24AM
The problem may be that it seems they consider UC graduates should be paid in excess of 300k (30 mil / ~100).
(Score: 2) by Some call me Tim on Monday March 06 2017, @06:58AM
How much is Janet Napolitano making off this?
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-uc-visas-20170108-story.html [latimes.com] And another story: https://www.pacbiztimes.com/2017/01/20/uc-irresponsible-in-hiring-of-h1-b-visa-workers/ [pacbiztimes.com]
Questioning science is how you do science!
(Score: 3, Informative) by YttriumOxide on Monday March 06 2017, @11:44AM
I have direct experience working with HCL.
Overall, they are the perfect example of "you get what you pay for". I've never dealt with a worse bunch of barely-awake people in my life. It's not that they're not well educated - it's just that they REALLY REALLY don't care. There is ZERO motivation to do anything for you since they're just faceless cogs in a machine and there's no accountability on individuals from their management.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @01:38PM (2 children)
UCSF is a medical school, their mission is healthcare, not training CS folks.
UC Berkeley is nearby an great at that.
But both are part of the whole UC system.
The whole UC system mission is much more broad.
http://www.ucop.edu/uc-mission/index.html [ucop.edu]
It would seem that this UCSF action is pretty far from the UC mission of teaching and being an active repository of knowledge.
Apparently the UCSF bean counting system is disfunctional enough to encourage exporting jobs to India.
It would seem that a more creative approach would have been to farm them out to Berkeley where the expertise and cheap student labor is available.
It would be interesting to know if the UCSF folks even asked Berkeley about it.
This would seem something for the administration at the UC level to look at and figure out what went wrong.
The first step would be for the UC folks to admit that something dumb happened on their watch.
I won't hold my breath.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @03:39PM (1 child)
UCSF can easily be replaced by an Indian medical school.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06 2017, @08:14PM
That is not informative, that is bullcrap. UCSF is one of the leading medical centers in the world! You can hate on them for this H1B bullshit, but don't think it is another diploma mill.