North Korea Launches Missiles, Land in Japanese Waters
North Korea has launched four ballistic missiles towards the Sea of Japan.
Three of them fell into Japan's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) after flying some 1,000km (620 miles), in what PM Shinzo Abe called a "new stage of threat".
They were fired from the Tongchang-ri region, near the North's border with China, the South Korean military said.
The type of missile is unclear but the North is banned from any missile or nuclear tests by the UN.
The United States' Secret Cyberwar Against North Korean Missiles
The U.S. has been operating a "Stuxnet"-like program against North Korea to hinder its ability to produce intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads:
Three years ago, President Barack Obama ordered Pentagon officials to step up their cyber and electronic strikes against North Korea's missile program in hopes of sabotaging test launches in their opening seconds.
Soon a large number of the North's military rockets began to explode, veer off course, disintegrate in midair and plunge into the sea. Advocates of such efforts say they believe that targeted attacks have given American antimissile defenses a new edge and delayed by several years the day when North Korea will be able to threaten American cities with nuclear weapons launched atop intercontinental ballistic missiles.
But other experts have grown increasingly skeptical of the new approach, arguing that manufacturing errors, disgruntled insiders and sheer incompetence can also send missiles awry. Over the past eight months, they note, the North has managed to successfully launch three medium-range rockets. And Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader, now claims his country is in "the final stage in preparations" for the inaugural test of his intercontinental missiles — perhaps a bluff, perhaps not.
An examination of the Pentagon's disruption effort, based on interviews with officials of the Obama and Trump administrations as well as a review of extensive but obscure public records, found that the United States still does not have the ability to effectively counter the North Korean nuclear and missile programs. Those threats are far more resilient than many experts thought, The New York Times's reporting found, and pose such a danger that Mr. Obama, as he left office, warned President Trump they were likely to be the most urgent problem he would confront.
Additional articles about the NYT investigation and "left-of-launch" strikes.
Related Stories
Experts are suggesting the in-flight failure and crash of the missile launched by North Korea on Wednesday could have been the result of a "left-of-launch" attack by the United States. While these failures may have been the result of poor engineering on the part of the North Koreans, they may also have been deliberately brought down by the US.
[...] In 2014, then-President Barack Obama authorized additional research into "left-of-launch" efforts to neutralize North Korean missiles, as opposed to the more traditional deployment of anti-missile systems to destroy inbound weapons. "Left-of-launch" strategies involve electromagnetic propagation or cyber attacks against missiles immediately after launch, including through infected electronics aboard the weapon that confuse its command and control or targeting systems.
[...] Part of the beauty of a "left-of-launch" attack, said Lance Gatling, a defence analyst and president of Tokyo-based Nexial Research Inc, is that the North Koreans cannot be sure that any imported electronics have not been deliberately permitted to evade sanctions because they are infected with malware. Similarly, when a launch fails they are also unable to determine what brought the missile down.
Previously: North Korean Missiles and What the US is Doing About It
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Tuesday March 07 2017, @09:05PM (7 children)
I think sending in a THAAD is the best thing to do. Won't stop lil Kim, but it will royally piss off China. China can put pressure on lil Kim, which could put an end to both the nuke and missile problems.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 07 2017, @09:10PM
That's what we are doing - deploying THAAD to S. Korea. China is super pissed, and is putting all kinds of pressure on S. Korea. S. Korea is ambivalent since the system doesn't actually help protect itself, but gets all the brunt of China's ire.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 07 2017, @09:11PM (4 children)
THAAD is a terminal phase interceptor, US interests on the ground in the region are limited, unless you are counting Guam, which probably already has a THAAD installation, or something more effective that they're not telling us about.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snotnose on Tuesday March 07 2017, @09:18PM (3 children)
It's not the missiles China is worried about, it's the radar. It can cover a lot of Chinese territory and the Chinese would like to keep their air movement secret.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 07 2017, @09:36PM (2 children)
Yeah, and South Korea is a perfect excuse to install it.
I see us (probably already) having such capability in the area, but not running 24-7 high def radar coverage on China to appease them. It is kind of convenient, though, locating it in South Korea so we "have to" look North to see what's going on with Kim.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday March 08 2017, @05:19PM (1 child)
"but not running 24-7 high def radar coverage on China to appease them."
Do you really think the US Intelligence community is not surveilling a competitor's military movements to the maximum extent possible out of respect?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 08 2017, @06:19PM
"but not running 24-7 high def radar coverage on China to appease them."
Do you really think the US Intelligence community is not surveilling a competitor's military movements to the maximum extent possible out of respect?
Actually, yes. We are passively surveilling everything we can to the maximum extent practical, but you don't do things like actively scan radar over a sovereign state without good reason - it's an invitation to the other side to ramp up their posturing - and who wants to have the whole world at DEFCON 1 all the time?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2017, @03:00AM
China can put pressure on lil Kim, which could put an end to both the nuke and missile problems.
If only the real world were that simple.
The DPRK thinks it is still at war with the US. And it is true, we only signed an armistice.
They don't see things the way we do.
But they sure did see what we did to Iraq which had no means to strike back.
China threatens to starve them and they won't just see it as China, they'll see it as the US and S Korea pushing China to act as a proxy.
And then there are the internal politics of the DPRK. Kim is a dictator, but that doesn't mean he's not vulnerable to a coup - that's the reason he's been killing all those people, including his brother in exile. So his motivation to hold on to power (and thus his own life) and the motivations of potential coup plotters change the calculations. Somebody in their military might decide its actually worth bombing a foreign city in order to provoke a chain of events they think will cause Kim to be overthrown. And after China has starved them for a few months that option might start looking pretty good.
Shit is complicated. There are no good answers and it isn't even clear which answers are the really bad ones.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by VLM on Tuesday March 07 2017, @10:07PM (9 children)
the United States still does not have the ability to effectively counter the North Korean nuclear and missile programs.
Thats fake news.
First of all don't bomb or attack NK and they won't launch ICBMs at the US or Japan or much of anywhere. I know it sounds unthinkable to restrain empire colonialism to not invade the mountains of NK, but its really not much of a loss. Every pound of steel in a rocket they don't launch is a pound of steel not in artillery fired at SK so they should be fairly happy.
Secondly if they did anything "mass destruction" we could glass their entire country. And they know it. So the first NK to suggest launching a WMD will simply get shot by a zillion slightly more sane NK.
Psychologically NK is not like militant Islam. They have no desire to immigrate to Ohio then run over college kids and stab them for Allah. If you leave NK alone, they are more certain than Switzerland to leave you alone. Very predictable. The only possible way to get NK to launch would be to threaten their existence via a ground war invasion, perhaps.
Thirdly ask China. Big Bro China is the only thing keeping NK alive as basically a buffer state. You don't talk to NK about their antics any more than the Cuban Missile Crisis was about JFK fighting with Castro. Castro just happened to be in charge of the dirt the super powers were fighting over. If you want NK to do anything from stop launching GD missiles all the way to stand on their heads and sing Psy songs, all you need to do it convince Big Bro China. This is why the American's appear so stupid and ineffective when yelling at NK directly to avoid acknowledging China as a regional superpower.
Actually after the bay of pigs thing Castro felt justified in whacking JFK so he did precisely that, and the Russians WTF'd Castro and the whole thing was covered up for a couple decades because the USA invading Cuba in retribution would just lead to nuclear war whereas pretending nothing happened meant no nuclear war, other than the seemingly insane over the top hatred the feds had for Castro specifically for unnamed reasons. But that's getting off topic. I figure 25 years after Castro's death and the files will be released, most of the boomers will be dead of old age by then and it'll be "safe" politically to tell the true story. I wonder what Trump's reaction was when he was told the truth when he took power. Maybe they lied to him. I bet for at least 5 minutes his twitter posting trigger finger was itching.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 08 2017, @12:18AM (4 children)
First of all don't bomb or attack NK and they won't launch ICBMs at the US or Japan or much of anywhere. I know it sounds unthinkable to restrain empire colonialism to not invade the mountains of NK, but its really not much of a loss. Every pound of steel in a rocket they don't launch is a pound of steel not in artillery fired at SK so they should be fairly happy.
Maybe. Let us keep in mind that North Korea invaded first in the first place. And with China next door, empire colonialism could come from North Korea, acting as a proxy for China, instead of South Korea and the US.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 08 2017, @12:41PM (3 children)
Invaded who, and when? And compare their record to somewhat more warmongering empires, such as like, all of them, and they're practically the neutral Swiss. They make the Aussies look like warmongers.
Agreed on the China thing and China is down with the whole MAD strategy thing, much like if "Castro" had decided to nuke Wash DC during the Cuban Missile Crisis you know Moscow would have had a worse day than Havana, frankly. In that way the NK behavior is basically taunting and ignoring them is likely the best policy.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 08 2017, @01:52PM (2 children)
Invaded who, and when?
The invasion of course of South Korea in 1950.
And compare their record to somewhat more warmongering empires, such as like, all of them, and they're practically the neutral Swiss.
North Korea is still at war with South Korea. They just aren't fighting very much. And yes, that has included a fair number of battlefield deaths over the years since 1953 with the possibility of a flare up which might kill hundreds of thousands (due to the ridiculous amount of artillery pointed at Seoul) in minutes at any time. And it is silly to compare them to Switzerland who hasn't been at war since 1815 by intent for over 200 years ago. North Korea hasn't invaded South Korea again merely because they don't have the logistics to wage sustained war by themselves.
It is foolish to make your comparison for two reasons: first, North Korea has never been peaceful and continues to kill people in acts of war. Second, North Korea has always acted at the convenience of warmongering empires, the USSR and current China.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 08 2017, @05:01PM (1 child)
The invasion of course of South Korea in 1950.
Whoa... my great (-great- ?) uncle was involved in that on the US Army side, he never talked much about it, he was just a kid soldier not in charge of the war. He's like pushing 90 now. I would imagine everyone in charge of that war is dead, then everyone who knows someone first order who was in charge is also dead, and at best you got 2nd order.
Its like still being pissed off at the Japanese for WWII atrocities. There's like nobody alive for a long time who was making those policy decisions. Or being angry at the American south today for that slavery thing about 150 years ago. Its like being angry at the USA Democratic Party in 2017 because in 1860 they supported slavery.
What happened in '50 is interesting militarily, strategically and logistically, but not politically. That was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
North Korea hasn't invaded South Korea again merely because they don't have the logistics to wage sustained war by themselves.
One theory I like about war is wars are fought when the outcome is unclear. Its obvious that NK could cause some short term pain before being wiped off the map again unless China steps in, pretty much like last time, actually. That complete lack of confusion about the outcome on both sides is why no war gets fought. Probably no war will ever get fought as long as its obvious that it would just be a rerun of 1950 and as long as no one gets pushed into a corner and threatened. I can't imagine anyone on either side thinking tossing a nuke at Tokyo or LA as an offensive act would result in anything but glassing the country, and as a defensive act being able to rely on MAD instead of China stabilizes the situation rather then destabilizes it because now relations with China have no effect, NK can't be wiped from the map regardless of China's opinion. Not really seeing a problem with that.
So I'm not seeing Korea 2.0 breaking out any time soon and building ICBMs is mildly stabilizing to the situation as only being useful as a last ditch "Masada defense", so as long as we can avoid invading NK by accident or for fun, we're all good here?
I mean what realistically is the problem, other than general imperial warmongering and such?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 08 2017, @05:35PM
I mean what realistically is the problem, other than general imperial warmongering and such?
That North Korea is crazy enough to start a war that could kill millions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2017, @12:38AM
Let the rewriting of history begin!
If Castro had killed JFK he'd have been killed a loooong time ago.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2017, @02:44AM
> Psychologically NK is not like militant Islam.
Man, you must really love muslims, seeing as how you can barely write a single post without making it about islam.
Were your inept advances spurned by a belly-dancer?
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Wednesday March 08 2017, @03:02AM (1 child)
> Castro felt justified in whacking JFK so he did precisely that [...]
Bullshit.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 08 2017, @12:53PM
More precisely its my favorite conspiracy theory where all the behaviors and motivations and justifications fit and seem the most logical behaviors for those actors at that time, and there's no evidence against it, but then again there's no evidence proving it either. Frankly it makes more sense than the nonsense the warren commission proposed, other than it not being the official story and not being supported by the evidence thats been released (not all has been...)
Now by Castro whacked JFK I don't mean Fidel personally snuck across our open border and pulled the trigger personally, but more like he gave cloak and dagger orders money and support to various people which eventually led to dead JFK.
I have a weaker sub theory that Castro was actively working to off him, perhaps in JFKs second term, perhaps on the anniversary of something related to the bay of pigs, but for the sake of argument however unlikely the official story is to be true, someone else offed JFK first, maybe the mafia was pissed who knows it doesn't matter WRT Cuban relations, but the intense and undying hatred the top level feds had for Cuba resulted from the warren commission or "whoever" discovering that Cuba had an operation in the oven ready to go although they didn't actually do the deed. So the FBI found Cuban agents stockpiling explosives and the same group infiltrating the catering staff or whatever of a venue planning to host a JFK speech on the anniversary of the bay of pigs or on the topic of how great western imperialism is when a leftie does it, whatever, and that earned the Cubans eternal hatred from the feds.
Of course some times the most logical and obvious and predictable thing does not happen, and there's just some craziness. Really unlikely, but it could have happened.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2017, @03:10AM (3 children)
This has me worried about Japan. They have been frequently described as being a de facto nuclear state, just a “screwdriver’s turn away” from having nuclear weapons. Their space program demonstrates that they are already a lot better at building ballistic missiles than the North Koreans might ever become. If nothing is done to dissuade the DPRK from their continued bellicose actions and the Japanese lose confidence in the US’s readiness to stand by them, they might just take matters in their own hands and there might be a nuclear arms race in East Asia as a result. Does not bode well for peace in the region.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2017, @04:18AM
Does not bode well for anyone stranded on this rock.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by butthurt on Wednesday March 08 2017, @04:36AM
That could happen. In the 1970s/1980s, South Korea and Taiwan were working on developing nuclear weapons, but they abandoned their programmes.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/rok/ [globalsecurity.org]
http://www.nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/npr/133hersman.pdf [nonproliferation.org]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 08 2017, @12:58PM
My wargaming guess is before it became a race to build warheads, there would be raids by military and commandos to mess stuff up eventually leading to outright war or Chinese intervention. The Chinese might be behind the whole darn thing just so they can waltz in as a regional nuclear power and gain much face by acting as a regional power and getting both countries to stand down. I got an idea lets you and him fight so I can show off how I'm the boss and tell you both to break it up, won't that make me look good.
(Score: 1) by What planet is this on Wednesday March 08 2017, @02:35PM (1 child)
So where does this end. If there was ever a case for a preemptive nuclear strike... Is it a requirement to wait until New York is nuclear ash?
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Wednesday March 08 2017, @03:04PM
We should fry them before they fry us, because we're the good guys and they're the bad guys.
Only problem with that reasoning, is I can't tell who said it... US or NK?