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posted by cmn32480 on Monday April 17 2017, @01:58AM   Printer-friendly
from the that-is-NOT-what-we-expected dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes:

BusinessInsider reports on some creative solutions that have been submitted for "The Trump Wall"

Main link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/design-trumps-border-wall-hyperloop-2017-4

This aliases to:
http://www.businessinsider.com/design-trumps-border-wall-hyperloop-2017-4/#the-19th-century-brought-us-boundaries-the-20th-century-we-built-walls-the-next-will-bridge-nations-by-creating-communities-based-on-shared-principles-of-economic-resiliency-energy-independence-and-a-trust-based-society-the-designers-wrote-5

Homeland Security has put out a request for proposal and some of the submissions are truly creative. This article focuses on a joint Mexican-US proposal to convert land along the border to a neutral zone and build a Hyperloop along the border.

The Trump administration is reviewing design bids for its proposed wall along the US-Mexico border. But not all plans are interpreting the word "wall" literally.

A group of Mexican and American engineers and urban planners called MADE Collective want to build a $1 trillion hyperloop transportation network instead. The plan would turn the border into a shared nation, called Otra Nation, with an independent local government and nonvoting representatives in the US and Mexican legislatures.
...
The plan would cost approximately $15 billion — less than the $21 billion that the Department of Homeland Security estimated a border wall would cost. The designers also predict that their system would create $1 trillion in trade.
...
The group submitted its design to the US Customs and Border Protection's official call for proposals in March.

While this certainly wasn't what your AC was expecting, it appears to be a completely serious proposal from experienced builders and planners -- http://www.otranation.com/proposal

Other proposals submitted include:

MADE Collective is not the only one to submit a fantastical design for the border wall. Other proposals include a wall covered in solar panels, a binational park, and an "Inflatoborder" made of plastic bubbles.


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:59AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:59AM (#495062)

    Shit no, am I going to ride a border train and be searched by the TSA. I don't care if nerd darling Elon Musk is involved, that billionaire bastard can go to hell.

    Fuck Musk, and fuck the idiots who worship Musk.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:33AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:33AM (#495068)

      Read the article. Plan calls for a neutral zone that is jointly managed. The hook that could catch Trump's nose is the plan also predicts an additional trillion ($T) of additional trade by connecting all the current border cities together with Hyperloop. The way he's been flip flopping on campaign issues says to me that he might forget the wall and go for increased trade. Can't you see Trump Tower hotels along both sides of the border?

      My take on Hyperloop is that it may never be "human rated" -- one crash at high speed with only very small pieces left just doesn't sound appealing to climb into. However, it could be a very economical way to transport freight. The combination of maglev and low air drag means very low losses in steady state motion. And if deceleration/descent of one pod can be turned into power to accelerate/hill-climb another pod, the regen could also be very efficient. The fact that it's perhaps 10x faster than truck shipping and doesn't need a driver goes without saying...(but I'll remind you of that anyway).

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:46AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:46AM (#495071)

        Plane crashes are not easy to survive either, but humans love flying so much that you have to drag them off the plane. 😂😂😂😂😂

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:17PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:17PM (#495355)

          Can't beat that.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:40AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:40AM (#495085)

        Read the article.

        Shirley you jest.

        Plan calls for a neutral zone that is jointly managed.

        Sounds like the Berlin Wall already. Prolly will have a Checkpoint Donald too.

        • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday April 17 2017, @04:19AM (1 child)

          by Nerdfest (80) on Monday April 17 2017, @04:19AM (#495099)

          I was going to say the same. Crowd-source it all you want, it will still be an Albatross to future sane governments, very akin to the Berlin wall. Of course, most of the people running the show right now will be "vacationing in Brazil" as seems to be the tradition.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:15AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:15AM (#495122)

            It looks like the Canucks are about to make weed legal. [google.com]

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Monday April 17 2017, @02:47AM

    by driverless (4770) on Monday April 17 2017, @02:47AM (#495072)

    I think Jackie Chan says it best [youtube.com]:

    Wall, huh, yeah

    What is it good for

    Absolutely nothing

    Wall, huh, yeah

    What is it good for

    Absolutely nothing

    Say it again, why'all

    Wall, huh, good god

    What is it good for

    Absolutely nothing, listen to me

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:04AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:04AM (#495077)

    Mandatory republican protection at the border. They should be the ones to sacrifice for the cause of keeping those dirty mexcans out of our country.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:28AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:28AM (#495081)

      > ... republican protection at the border.

      Think of the maintenance cost, the sun screen alone will break the budget.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:43PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:43PM (#495238)

        Only faggots use sun screen, so you won't have to worry about any Republicans wanting any.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @02:34PM (#495265)

          At least publicly. Every time they go to the can, they want to play footsie under the stall.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:54AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:54AM (#495089)

    Shut up about the Hyperloop. It's nothing more than FUD put out by a car manufacturer. When you run with it, you reveal yourself to be lacking in critical thinking skills. These Hyperfools expect us to believe that an enormous vacuum chamber can be constructed for less than an ordinary rail line along the same route, much less that a passenger vehicles can travel safely inside it with throughput approaching rail. It's totally transparent bunk and the credence given to it by journalists only shows that they are so clueless that it didn't even occur to them to find an an actual engineer to tell them so.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:01AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:01AM (#495092)

      Hyperlop is the nextbest thing to SPAAAACE for the space nutters.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:02AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:02AM (#495093)

      Thunderf00t has a whole series on why hyperloop will probably not work. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thunderfoot+hyperloop [youtube.com]

      Basically they are proposing the worlds largest vacuum chamber. The effect of a failure will be along the lines of these
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9bpUfWy8Wg [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N17tEW_WEU [youtube.com]

      slightly different variation but same effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0TQxYemrgg [youtube.com]

      *maybe* they have some super secret sauce that will make it work. But I have not seen it yet.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday April 17 2017, @04:51AM (1 child)

        by kaszz (4211) on Monday April 17 2017, @04:51AM (#495111) Journal

        Of course any tube built would be designed to be structurally sound which the videos show excellently what happens if they aren't. I would worry more about small imperfections that are less obvious.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @11:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @11:26PM (#495598)

          The mythbusters one showed it nicely. It worked right up until something dented it. Then POP.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Monday April 17 2017, @04:07AM (5 children)

    First it says:

    A group of Mexican and American engineers and urban planners called MADE Collective want to build a $1 trillion hyperloop transportation network instead. The plan would turn the border into a shared nation, called Otra Nation, with an independent local government and nonvoting representatives in the US and Mexican legislatures.

    Then it says:

    The plan would cost approximately $15 billion — less than the $21 billion that the Department of Homeland Security estimated a border wall would cost. The designers also predict that their system would create $1 trillion in trade.

    So which is it? US $1 triilion or US $15 billion?

    Don't tell me I actually have to read TFA to find out. What? Are you Nancy Pelosi?

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday April 17 2017, @04:35AM

      Okay, According to the actual proposal [otranation.com], it's US$1 trillion over ten years.

      I have no idea where the US $15 billion number comes from, but it's there without explanation in TFA. Sigh.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:42AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @04:42AM (#495108)

      ... So which is it? US $1 triilion or US $15 billion?

      Both:
        + $15B to build
        + Improved transportation along the border between existing twinned cities will increase the economy by $1T. These cities include "Tijuana-San Diego / Mexicali-Caléxico / San Luis - Yuma / Nogales-Nogales / Naco-Naco / Agua Prieta- Douglas/ Puerto Palomas-Columbus / Juárez-El Paso / Ojinaga-Presidio / Cd. Acuña-Del Río / Piedras Negras-Eagle Pass / Nuevo Laredo-Laredo / Reynosa-McAllen / Cd. Rio Bravo-Weslaco / Matamoros Brownsville"

            The magazine article incorrectly quotes the proposal, from: http://www.otranation.com/proposal [otranation.com]

      · Economic Issues

      More than 80 million people in four U.S. and six Mexico States, extending nearly 2,000 miles from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean, comprising the border region. Its combined annual GDP is approximately $3.8 trillion and the bulk of U.S.-Mexico trade passes through its many land crossings. The border region is and has been a source of commerce, tourism, and student-exchange which has proven vital to both countries. The region harbor intense binational integration and cooperation including issues of shared importance, such as transportation infrastructure and the environment. Key law enforcement efforts to counter transnational crime occur in the border region.

      According to the former president George W. Bush White House Archives, the almost 2,000 miles U.S.-Mexico border is the busiest in the world.

      Since the implementation of NAFTA twenty-one years ago, trade between the United States and Mexico has grown sixfold. It now totals more than a half-trillion dollars each year, with approximately 80% of that, more than a billion dollars each day, crossing at the U.S.-Mexico land border. More than six million U.S. jobs—and probably an even greater number of the U.S.-Mexico border jobs— now depend on bilateral trade.
      ...

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday April 17 2017, @04:54AM (1 child)

        by kaszz (4211) on Monday April 17 2017, @04:54AM (#495112) Journal

        Instant drug route? ;)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:49PM (#495241)

          Well, as an AC up there notes, hyperloop might be good for freight, so let's hope the drug routes of the future include bringing fresh herb up from warmer climates over hyperloop, then have an intermodal yard to hand it off to a container driver who can use I-35 as a drug route.

          Note: My plan includes legalizing cannabis and will result in the profits of big pharma, big alcohol, big tobacco, and most unacceptable of all big prison crashing, so it'll never happen.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Monday April 17 2017, @04:55AM

        I read through the proposal and saw this:

        22T Hyperloop Transportation System

        Collectively the United States and Mexico will spend over $1T on infrastructure construction and renewal over the next ten years. By utilizing pioneering US built technologies we can create the fastest and most sustainable transportation corridor in the world. Starting at San Diego/Tijuana and running between the new trans-national boundary.

        I saw no mention of $15 billion. Perhaps you can direct me to what I missed.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday April 17 2017, @04:56AM

    by kaszz (4211) on Monday April 17 2017, @04:56AM (#495114) Journal

    Considering the instability in Mexico and illegal activity along the border. Isn't a transportation route like hyperloop a big "Please fire at me!" ?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:18AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:18AM (#495123)

    I wonder if Trump asked the current Chinese leader about the Great Wall of China (the one with a highway along the top)? How long was that a positive thing (keeping out the Mongols?) and then how long did it keep China isolated from developments in the rest of the world (which they are still trying to dig out from).

    And I also wonder if any of the proposals for the Mexico wall looked the same as the Great Wall of China?

    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday April 17 2017, @06:33AM (1 child)

      by kaszz (4211) on Monday April 17 2017, @06:33AM (#495143) Journal

      It was most likely a net positive to keep out the ravaging Mongols from the more civilized Chinese starting circa 771-206 BC. Kind of like have certain present day suicide sects combined with imperial ambitions at the border. The problem happens when a nation decides on a isolationist policy like the Haijin starting in 1371, towards nations where they have something to learn or doing a profitable trade with.

      Btw, Moscow and thus Russia broke free from the Mongol in 1380-1480 so their influence hampered other nations. The ravages of the Ottoman empire 1299-1922 have similar traces, at least in neighboring European countries.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @09:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @09:06AM (#495174)

        771-206 BC.

        Just, wow, China, and you are not even Runaway1956BC. Chou Dynasty? Spring and Autumn Period? Warring States? And you finally are into it by a decade or two with The First Emperor.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:16PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:16PM (#495231)

    Install artillery at the border, and shoot at anything that moves. It will be a good outlet for all that defense budget.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @01:53PM (#495242)

      Texas could drop its death-row inmates near the border and tell them to run; if they make it to Mexico, then they are safe. Otherwise, they're target practice for the military.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @06:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @06:44PM (#495418)

      or we could just remove stolen "money" "welfare" from the situation. if migrants had to form their own neighborhood schools (instead of dragging down native children's education/socialist indoctrination) and nobody was given free medical care just because they are dying and any other bullshit then it would be fine by me if migrants came in droves(except muslims, as their political system posing as a religion is not compatible with freedom. Or any other bullshit religions of goat humpers, rapists, and child molesters that publicly admit to trying to take over the world.) . give them all green cards and any violent crimes within 10 years get's them shot out of a cannon into the gulf of mexico.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:05PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:05PM (#495346)

    Saudi Arabia is securing the border with Iraq. It's through dunes, same as parts of our border, and nearly as long. This is comparable. Saudi Arabia is using multiple layers of lower-cost fencing, with sensitive radar that can detect people approaching from miles away. There are rapid response teams with helicopters, ready to shoot anybody who attempts to cross. Basically, this is to stop the entry of those terrorists that have been showing up as "refugees" in Europe and claiming to be unaccompanied minors. Saudi Arabia isn't that stupid -- or maybe they are Islamophobic???

    Israel has built several barriers, not just the famous Trump-style wall around the west bank. All of them have worked really well. The lengthy barrier with Egypt is especially similar to the US-Mexico situation.

    We build a really secure barrier in Korea. We didn't fuck around; we installed land mines. It works pretty well. South Korea has been upgrading it with autonomous robot machine guns.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 18 2017, @07:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 18 2017, @07:26PM (#495976)

      > We build a really secure barrier in Korea. We didn't fuck around; we installed land mines

      Land mines are a scourge. Have you met a war amp? The world is NOT land mine free right now, and most amputees are children who are playing in fields or on roadsides. When most children say "hey a tin can or a toy or a rock that's a bit red let's poke it" they don't pay for that curiosity with life and limb.

      Now go donate to Human Rights Watch or similar to atone for your sins. Do NOT PROMOTE LAND MINES. They are as atrocious as chemical weapons.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:18PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @05:18PM (#495356)

    First, it's not a vacuum. It's reduced pressure. The proposed design involves electric turbine propulsion, plus air-bearing skids for support, so it obviously wouldn't work in a vacuum. Speeds are limited to about 600 MPH due to the speed of sound; this can be increased by increasing the speed of sound: heat the gas and/or switch to a lighter molecule like hydrogen.

    Second, the border is a completely fucking dumb place for this. We don't greatly need transport there. The route will be curvy. Mexicans will attack it. Maintenance workers will be attacked.

    If you want this for real, you do this route: Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 18 2017, @12:00AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 18 2017, @12:00AM (#495608)

      All of the docs are talking *near* vacuum. To argue partial vacuum is like arguing the difference between the colors 000,000,000 and 000,000,001.

      We don't greatly need transport there.
      You have never been on I-10 have you?

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