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posted by on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the Free-as-in-TANSTAAFL dept.

Fedora is drafting a new mission statement. The new initial proposal:

Fedora creates an innovative platform that lights up hardware, clouds, and containers for software developers and community members to build tailored solutions for their users.

The original goal was:

to work with the Linux community to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from open source software.

Is saying open, or free, openly (excuse the pun) becoming something to be ashamed of? Are project ditching their ideals? Fedora barely mentioned free (or Free, to be more clear), but now it's even more vague. It's like if had to be reminded over and over to those in charge, as the triggered thread demostrates.


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:44AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:44AM (#496178)

    We knew from day one this mumbo jumbo wouldn't fly.

    Honestly, what sane person would try to make money from any software licensed under the GPL, which was drafted by a hippie communist to fulfill his manifesto of driving the price of all software to zero.

    The GNU Manifesto plainly says, you won't get paid. Do something else.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:53AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:53AM (#496180)

      Modded Troll for Truth.

      “Won't programmers starve?”

            I could answer that nobody is forced to be a programmer. Most of us
      cannot manage to get any money for standing on the street and making
      faces. But we are not, as a result, condemned to spend our lives
      standing on the street making faces, and starving. We do something
      else.

      You delusional open source morons don't even know the history of your own movement.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:57AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:57AM (#496183)

        Continued:

        ...
        but that is the wrong answer because it accepts the questioner's implicit assumption: that without ownership of software, programmers cannot possibly be paid a cent. Supposedly it is all or nothing.

        The real reason programmers will not starve is that it will still be possible for them to get paid for programming; just not paid as much as now.

        Restricting copying is not the only basis for business in software. It is the most common basis(7) because it brings in the most money. If it were prohibited, or rejected by the customer, software business would move to other bases of organization which are now used less often. There are always numerous ways to organize any kind of business.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:03AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:03AM (#496185)

          Suppose everyone who buys a computer has to pay x percent of the price as a software tax. The government gives this to an agency like the NSF to spend on software development.

          We can quote scripture all night, idiot.

      • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:03AM (2 children)

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:03AM (#496186)

        You delusional open source morons don't even know the history of your own movement.

        AC may be surprised to learn that Richard M. Stallman agrees with them on that point:
        Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software [gnu.org]

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:13AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:13AM (#496191)

          Open source is business terminology for exploiting the free labor of idealist hippies.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20 2017, @02:31AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20 2017, @02:31AM (#496666)

            it can be but it doesn't have to be. you're one of those slaveware users/peddlers who like to say "commercial" instead of "closed source" or "slaveware" as if F/OSS can't be commercial. you're just a common street hooker. just admit it.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:38PM (#496437)

        What does RMS have to do with "open source"? Nothing. There was also nothing wrong with what he said.

    • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:54AM (1 child)

      by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:54AM (#496181)

      The GNU manifesto [gnu.org] seems to be arguing that software is a public good like air. It plainly says that programmers will still need to be paid to advance the "state of the art".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:58AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:58AM (#496184)

        The GNU Manifesto says software is public utility which will be paid for by taxes. Not advertising like Screwgle and Fuckbook. Not investment scams like every Silicon Vagina startup. Taxation.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:08AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:08AM (#496236)

      The GNU Manifesto plainly says, you won't get paid. Do something else.

      Whoever is paying you to do this is getting ripped off, this quality of trolling isn't worth the bytes it's encoded in.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:21PM (#496351)

      Does this mean Poettering is going away???

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:55AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:55AM (#496182)

    FUCK Linux and FUCK You

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:13AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:13AM (#496190)

      Wow, supremely triggered. I am beginning to understand why we got saddled with systemd and all the newfangled widgets we have these days. Software got too advanced, programmers are no longer needed to recreate the wheel every year so the greedy ones got scared and are now trying to lock everything down. They need to secure their future so they are going to embrace Disney's IP standards. All hail the mighty capitalists! May their software forever screw the customer!

      It is the new wave, values mean nothing, VC or bust! Scared insecure people, and hey I get it, everyone is scared these days and trying to secure their future. It's the wrong way to go about it, but I do understand your insecurities.

      • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:18AM (#496192)

        No time for capitalism, too busy starving to death.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:10AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:10AM (#496188)

    If your business is selling an operating system, you will not like GNU, but that's tough on you.

    How insanely fucking stupid do you have to be to try to sell Linux when the GNU Manifesto itself says not to sell an operating system? Fedora stupid, apparently.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:01PM (2 children)

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:01PM (#496379)

      A) Red Hat has never sold their distribution. You get RHEL for free and pay for support.
      B) The GPL doesn't forbid selling your product. You just have to make sure they also get the source in the purchase if you go that direction.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:22PM (1 child)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:22PM (#496429) Journal

        Sorry, you should have said "Red Hat never sold Fedora Linux". There have been many versions that they did sell. I used to regularly buy "Red Hat, Professional Edition" until they suddenly and without warning discontinued it. They only wanted to sell to companies, or at least to people who were willing to pay thousands of dollars. I haven't followed them closely since then. I took Fedora to be the reincarnation of "Raw Meat" or whatever they called their development version, and the early ones were, though I understand it's gotten more stable.

        Debian has been a pretty good replacement, though there was a time when I'd install a new distribution every month just to try them out.

        One thing this revision convinces me of is that the GPL is the best license. You can't trust ANY organization not to become corrupt. Currently, and for my own work, I favor the AGPL or the GPL3. But I'm still not convinced to accept the "or any later version" phrase, because you can't trust ANY organization not to become corrupt.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:12PM (#496589)

          Have all code licensed under GPLv3/AGPLv3/LGPLv3 with the 'or later' clause provisional on the project head published an enactment of it when the new license comes out, or transferring the right to do so to the suceeding project lead.

          This allows you to keep it from being 'or later' if the later licenses suck, but leave the opportunity open unlike in the GPLv2 (no or later) case of Linux. Trying to allow/disallow a change in license is easier if you have the permission implicit up-front rather than having to rewrite or petition every dev at some indeterminate point in the future.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:18AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:18AM (#496193)

    Tyranny is being pushed on us VERY hard, the initial comments to this story are just another salvo from some group trying to push an agenda. There is an effort to pushy dictatorships, get rid of democracy, and now get rid of people building things for each other as a community. If your business model can't compete with the efforts of some programmers who donate their time, well then you deserve to fail. Come up with a viable business that people will actually pay for.

    The assault on Linux began a while back, Microsoft failed with Novell so they got more sneaky, using subterfuge and planting developers into key projects. I'm sure it is bigger than just MS, probably some coalition of bigwigs who wear sweater vests.

    Go home, trix are for kids.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:26AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:26AM (#496195)

      Fedora has changed focus from free software to hosted cloud platforms, because Fedora failed. There's no money in free software. Free software is not a business model.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:40AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:40AM (#496198)

        Redhat is the enterprise edition, Fedora is the non profit community edition. Since you can't even figure out some of the most basic stuff it is obvious you're trolling for a soapbox to push your own ideologies. Like those door to door Mormons spreading the "good word."

        Now it does seem like fedora might be pushing for a more standard business model but I didn't see much talk about specific monetization.

        • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:52PM (3 children)

          by epitaxial (3165) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:52PM (#496264)

          Speaking of Redhat. How do you sell Linux and license it? If you bought Redhat in the past it entitled you to support. Now you are given a license key. If the source is made available what is stopping someone from releasing a "free" Redhat distro with the license key stripped out?

          • (Score: 2) by SDRefugee on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:10PM

            by SDRefugee (4477) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:10PM (#496273)

            Ummm CentOS???

            --
            America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by termigator on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:57PM

            by termigator (4271) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:57PM (#496298)

            Nothing, hence the existence of CentOS.

            Interestingly, CentOS is now part of Redhat.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by HiThere on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:28PM

            by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:28PM (#496434) Journal

            The thing stopping people is that it's a lot of work. A few people and groups have done this. Several have mentioned CentOS, but there also is (or was, I don't keep current) WhiteBox Linux, and Scientific Linux. There have been others in the past, like KRUD Linux and Pink Tie Linux, and there may be others currently that I just haven't noticed.

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:35AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:35AM (#496196)

      some group trying to push an agenda

      Some group is the GNU Project, and some agenda is Make Software Free. Every time an Open Source company goes out of business, the Free Software Foundation wins.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:43AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:43AM (#496200)

        That is the opposite of what I said and not even true. From Scruffy's link above you can read about the difference between OSS and Free Software, and it specifically says OSS is not the enemy.

        Stop with the low effort jabs, at least try to appear informed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:06PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:06PM (#496253)

          This is probably one guy who's trying to be an intern at Microsoft showing off how much he "gets it" and all that crap, even though he very clearly doesn't and conveniently ignores much of the argument in favor of his two-sentence narrative. I don't think he's going to convince anyone of anything other than perhaps that he's a douchebag.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:39PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:39PM (#496439)

            Try for bitter free software developer who has large projects out there under the GPL. Try software developer who has seen absolutely no benefit in contributing to free software for decades. Try disillusioned member of your free software movement who has learned to hate everything about your evangelical movement. But you wouldn't understand because for stupid shit like you, this is a tribalism issue, and your tribe is always right. There's no possibility of convincing you of anything because you're fucking brainwashed.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:59PM (#496450)

              Plenty of people are getting paid to write free software. Your social skills might have something to do with why your life is a wreck. Have you been divorced too? Paying alimony right now? Gonna blame that on free software?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:44AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:44AM (#496201)

        Better watch out, I hear they consort with Satan himself to make that happen.

    • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:33PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:33PM (#496260)

      I find it irritating that you keep using this stupid phrase.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:02PM (#496335)

        Good!

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:55AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:55AM (#496202)

    The happy pills help me forget I'm starving to death. The only food I can afford are protein powder and imitation milk. Oh yeah the meds are kicking in. There's the euphoria. I'm in the zone now. Time to commit more code to github! Never getting paid because software wants to be free!!! I'm lucky it's not raining. I can't afford a roof. Coding is life! I feel so alive!!!

    • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:58AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:58AM (#496203)

      linux linux linux linux
      linux linux

      money is for losers

      i'm a winner!!!!!

        wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:01AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:01AM (#496206)

      If coders are unemployable, only hobbyists will be coders.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:15AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:15AM (#496210)

        Billion dollar business plan:

        (1) Clone hobbyist project from github for free.
        (2) Sell for billions.
        (3) There's no step 3.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:03AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:03AM (#496207)

      Contributing to projects is a good way to build a resume but is not a requirement. You can just as easily write an app to sell on iPhone/android markets, or modules/plugins to sell. Or find some for-pay projects, or find your own clients.

      No one forces you to code for free.

      Are you just a young person angry that the economy / society is failing you? That "the american dream" is a hollow lie? Sorry, not gonna lie it does suck. Do your best, try not to let it get you down.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:26PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:26PM (#496431)

      Oh god it's raining again! I have to wrap my linux laptop in a trash bag and run to the homeless shelter! Out of my way, normals! Elite coder coming through!! I'm better than you because I don't feel the need to bathe! Gotta get inside! I have brilliantly crafted code to upload!!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:18PM (#496465)

        Argh, get away! I know you thieves want to steal my laptop and steal my pills, just like you did to Richard Stallman in Argentina!! Oh I've just thought of a wonderfully elegant data structure to use for my latest project. I'm the smartest coder alive. Damn it, someone stole my pills while I was typing! No no they fell on the floor. Stop gaslighting me, gravity!!! The universe hates me.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by kaszz on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:13AM (16 children)

    by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:13AM (#496209) Journal

    So it will:
      * Not be Linux and by extension Unix nor POSIX compatible.
      * Incomplete.
      * Be special purpose.
      * Include proprietary code.

    Now it will be all blinky code (lights up) that include unnecessary code (innovative) that probably need some extra licenses. For a fee..

    If this is not true. Well then it could be stated!
    Seems along the lines with systemd etc.
    Diversion and division. Can't have good things because someone wants to pervert it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:19AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:19AM (#496212)

      So it will:
          * Not be Linux

      "Fedora abandons Linux" got modded Troll already, have fun.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:39AM

        by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:39AM (#496215) Journal

        Sorry for being devils advocate but if they leave out Linux and any other Unix standard that seems just the thing to do if they want to leave the option open to make it incompatible.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:30PM (#496396)

        So I went and checked the comment. Sure the title said what you claim, but the comment was:

        We knew from day one this mumbo jumbo wouldn't fly.

        Honestly, what sane person would try to make money from any software licensed under the GPL, which was drafted by a hippie communist to fulfill his manifesto of driving the price of all software to zero.

        The GNU Manifesto plainly says, you won't get paid. Do something else.

        Zero to do with the title, and a very trollish comment that ignores actual reality. The web runs on Linux and last I checked the web is home to a massive amount of profit making business. Try again little chickadee.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:41PM (2 children)

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:41PM (#496409)

        Maybe 2018 will be the "year of the Hurd desktop". Hurd/systemd would be a weird combination though.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by WillR on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:18PM

          by WillR (2012) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:18PM (#496466)
          I dunno, "Herd of Unix-Replacing Daemons" sounds like a fair description of systemd to me.
        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday April 20 2017, @01:34AM

          by kaszz (4211) on Thursday April 20 2017, @01:34AM (#496647) Journal

          Considering the Hurd layout. Systemd might not even fill any function at all?

    • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:54PM (9 children)

      by epitaxial (3165) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:54PM (#496266)

      Linux isn't even close to POSIX compatible. Try and compile some modern software (written in a Linux environment) on a commercial UNIX like Solaris or AIX. You'll get errors and warnings out the ass. I've yet to successfully compile anything on AIX (no I am not a comp.sci major either).

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:18PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:18PM (#496346)

        Your not holding it right. I worked for a large govt scientific agency and we ditched Solaris and AIX years ago for Redhat. Until that point I had no trouble compiling or running open source software.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:44PM (#496366)

          As the years go by, Linux deviates more and more from POSIX.

        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday April 20 2017, @01:26AM

          by kaszz (4211) on Thursday April 20 2017, @01:26AM (#496641) Journal

          Have you considered one of the BSDs?

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:57PM (4 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:57PM (#496377)

        You'll get errors and warnings out the ass. I've yet to successfully compile anything on AIX (no I am not a comp.sci major either).

        Er...not to be rude or anything, but that's a pretty big disclaimer.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:43PM (1 child)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:43PM (#496441) Journal

          Well, I, also, have yet to compile any Linux software on AIX. Of course, I don't have access to any AIX system. (Are they still even selling those?)

          The thing is, the POSIX standard only defines a subset of the libraries used...and actually, even there it's a bit loose. Using libraries that aren't mentioned by the POSIX standard doesn't mean you aren't POSIX compliant. Even Unix boxes have libraries that aren't mentioned in the POSIX standard, and many programs use those libraries. What it does say is this particular set of libraries exists and they work in this particular way. And it's true that Linux doesn't quite adhere to that standard, but it comes quite close. It's just that fewer and fewer programs only depend on the POSIX standard.

          P.S.: I just checked and apparently IBM *is* still selling AIX. But they sure aren't pushing it in the places I look.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by jasassin on Thursday April 20 2017, @07:49AM

            by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Thursday April 20 2017, @07:49AM (#496748) Homepage Journal

            Well, I, also, have yet to compile any Linux software on AIX. Of course, I don't have access to any AIX system. (Are they still even selling those?)

            I got samba (smbd and nmbd) to compile on SCO Unix 3.2.4.2 but my manager made me ixnay that before the owner found out since we (hardware dept) were pushing Linux.

            --
            jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:47PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:47PM (#496443)

          It really isn't. Plenty of people have no degrees and are very well-educated about computer science.

          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:05PM

            by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:05PM (#496455)

            Programming in general, sure, but when we're talking about the finer points of compiling between different Unices I'd like to see some credentials or job experience or something to justify that "I couldn't get it to work" doesn't mean "I banged on it for an afternoon without knowing what I was doing."

            For the record, I don't consider myself more than a notch or two above the latter. Definitely not a greybeard :)

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday April 20 2017, @11:32AM

        by NCommander (2) Subscriber Badge <michael@casadevall.pro> on Thursday April 20 2017, @11:32AM (#496798) Homepage Journal

        The problem here is actually the inverse. Linux has considerable extensions to POSIX which is why you ran into landmines. A lot of them come from GCC which allow for non-standard C (gnu99 variant) that seeped into most FOSS software.

        If you're serious on your attempts to build software on AIX, build/install GCC first (you might need to get a binary port to bootstrap it). Then replace make with GNU make, or at least an updated BSD make, as well as tar due to limitations with AIX's tar cutting off filenames that are too long. You also need to make sure CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS are picking up the piles of packages RPM drops in /opt, they won't get automatically picked up by either xLC or GCC.

        That will get you a LONG way closer to success than trying to use xLC. After that, you'll be far closer to success, though you might still need to handhold software that's being stupid. NetBSD's pkgsrc is a good way to go about this if you want it in a shiny package, or at least a good source of patches to de-Linuxify software since they build on a lot of BSDs and cygwin.

        If you want further help, drop me an email to discuss more in-depth. I've gotten most things to build on HP-UX and AIX with significant bludgeoning.

        --
        Still always moving
  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Lagg on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:17AM (4 children)

    by Lagg (105) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:17AM (#496211) Homepage Journal

    I don't know what the fuck is up with the insane ACs. But for what it's worth I think it can just as likely be that it's no longer a concept that matters to people due to overuse by projects that don't deserve such labeling as "open" and "free".

    I saw a vaporizer called oPen.Vape. Because it's a pen get it. The government uses "open source" in a way easily confused with what we know to be open source. What GNU and the FSF have turned into in terms of licensing and project priority taking a backseat to politics have lead to them not being anything I think of as open source or free software that's for goddamn sure. Plethora of other examples I'm too lazy to think of.

    Oh and RedHat has long stopped really "Working" with the community as such. It would make sense for Fedora to do the same.

    Users also do not currently and have not generally in the past cared about open source software. I think these days Stallman is partly to thank for that because he presented himself like a hippy but turned out to be yet another evangelical preacher. The next best bet is Eric but he's a googly eyed weirdo (I love him to death,but you know that's what people think) and his reputation seems to have suffered because people think he's arrogant? Which is funny to me because of all programmers next to Linus he has the right to be. Even if he was a perfectly sociable guy he still has his own non-sound-biteable politics. As we all do.

    Oh, and there is something of an issue with people trying to overreach and trying to inflict authoritarianism onto hackers. Which is a really stupid fucking idea. But they want to do it anyway. See Intel. When people are presented with policies like that, the first response is generally: "I thought this was free software". Can't really compromise the conflict between freedom/free lovin' and oppressive project policies. So why not just remove that bit entirely so it can't be cited.

    --
    http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:28AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:28AM (#496213)

      Don't forget Alan Cox who looks exactly like a homeless bum.

      Corporations have usurped "open source" as just another profit motive, and nobody ever cared about "free software" except college socialists and wide-eyed hippie idealists who swear post-scarcity communism will happen just like the manifesto promised.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:39AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:39AM (#496214)

        Liar! Alan Cox isn't homeless. See here's a photo of him cooking inside an indoors kitchen.

        https://nathan.chantrell.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/alan-cooking.jpg [chantrell.net]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:57PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:57PM (#496449)

          Photo from 8 years ago proves nothing. Alan Cocks could very well be homeless now, living under a bridge, and eating garbage.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:43AM

        by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @09:43AM (#496216) Journal

        Forget green washing, now we have open and free washing. Corporations are money vampires by definition at least when it comes to public shareholder corporations. And they should be treated as such. Corporate friendly but carry a horrible stick.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:40AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:40AM (#496231)

    Is saying open, or free, openly (excuse the pun) becoming something to be ashamed of?

    It is if you've suddenly changed your agenda to being a cloud-centric toady for Microsoft while infecting OSS with the likes of systemd.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:55PM

      by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday April 19 2017, @10:55PM (#496594)

      Is saying open, or free, openly (excuse the pun) becoming something to be ashamed of?

      It is if you've suddenly changed your agenda to being a cloud-centric toady for Microsoft while infecting OSS with the likes of systemd.

      So many of the ACs here are involved in a plot* to try to shift some of the systemd hate** towards the GPL***?

       

      *Too centralised to be a conspiracy.

      **Well deserved hatred.

      ***Haven't put my foil helmet on yet.

      --
      It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
  • (Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:53PM

    by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:53PM (#496265) Journal

    Linus always said that Linux code contributions would be licensed in a certain way (no single owner for the whole kernel) in case he ever went to the Dark Side. Redhat are well and truly over on the Dark Side now.
    Will Linus be tempted?
    How exciting!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:20PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:20PM (#496276)

    I cannot wait to have the new Fedora light up my sweet Vengeance RGB DRAM modules!

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by urza9814 on Wednesday April 19 2017, @02:00PM (1 child)

    by urza9814 (3954) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @02:00PM (#496301) Journal

    So the message I'm getting from this new mission statement is: Don't install Fedora.

    And I don't mean that as in "Boycott them because they screwed up." It's not my message, it's theirs. It's no longer "a general purpose operating system", it's now merely a component used "to build tailored solutions." They want to exist purely as an upstream project, and apparently don't think they can produce production-ready software anymore.

    What a shame...I found Fedora to be a perfect media center / steambox solution...guess I'll have to find something else now.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:25PM (#496352)

      The message I get is "Written by Committee of MBAs".

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:35PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:35PM (#496359)

    From the sounds of it, some sort of flashlight?

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:53PM (#496447)

      It's a fleshlight shaped like a penguin.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by srobert on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:06PM (1 child)

    by srobert (4803) on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:06PM (#496424)

    At my workplace, we did a change of mission statement a few years ago. I can't remember what it is now. But my coworkers seemed embarassed when I suggested that the mission statement that we had had for decades was still applicable and didn't need to be changed. It was the same sort of embarassment witnessed when someone points out the nakedness of an emperor.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:27PM (#496500)

      I think we have a 'Mission Statement', but to paraphrase someone, when I hear the words 'Mission Statement', I reach for my LART..

      Re Redhat/Fedora, I started with Slackware, made quite a good living from running and administering Redhat boxes, for which I do thank them, but heard the faint refrain 'Danger Will Robinson!' when RHEL lumbered onto the scene..cue one disastrous fubar too many with a critical server a few years later ..switched to Debian (which the backup servers were running anyway..eggs in one basket? I think not...) , and now Debian have screwed the pooch I'm back at Slackware, and a yet-to-be-decided *BSD.

      Redhat/Fedora free now for just over a decade.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:09PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:09PM (#496494)

    1) don't feed the trolls
    2) fedora loves proprietary

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20 2017, @03:43AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20 2017, @03:43AM (#496679)

    Backdoor Inside.

    What dod you expect?

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Subsentient on Thursday April 20 2017, @05:28AM

    by Subsentient (1111) on Thursday April 20 2017, @05:28AM (#496705) Homepage Journal
    Let's end the Fedora hatred circlejerk. Their mission statement means about dick, and was probably drawn up by some community members fresh out of business school and high on buzzwords. Fedora also isn't directly controlled by Red Hat, it's got its own community and governing committee. I'm the developer of the Epoch Init System [universe2.us], and I hate systemd so much I spent a year writing Epoch. That said, I've used Fedora since 2008 and it's a damn good distro, besides the systemd stuff. It's just the right balance of "works out of the box" and "advanced user friendly". The dnf package manager that replaced yum is heavenly, kickstart installation files are awesome and allow me to make my own LiveCDs with all the packages I want installed, and Fedora is extremely bleeding edge yet remains VERY stable. They're only ever a couple releases behind on their kernels, where right now I'm running 4.10.9, and the very latest at kernel.org is 4.10.11. Hate on them all you want, but they're not the devil, and I actually really like Fedora, and I still do to this day.
    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
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