For more than two thousand years people have believed that joint pain could be triggered by bad weather, but the link has never been proven.
But now, by harnessing the power of thousands of volunteers, doctors hope to unravel the mystery. And the new technique could offer countless solutions to a whole host of ailments.
[...] Each day she enters information about how she feels into an app on her phone, the phone's GPS pinpoints her location, pulls the latest weather information from the internet, and fires a package of data to a team of researchers.
On its own Becky's data is of limited interest, but she isn't acting alone. More than 13,000 volunteers have signed up for the same study, sending vast quantities of information into a database - more than four million data points so far.
The app, called "Cloudy with a Chance of Pain" is part of a research project being run by Will Dixon. He is a consultant rheumatologist at Salford Royal Hospital and has spent years researching joint pain.
My rheumatism is triggered when the wife asks me to carry heavy, heavy things up to our 3rd-floor walk-up...
(Score: 4, Funny) by marknmel on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:31AM (2 children)
> My rheumatism is triggered when the wife asks me to carry heavy, heavy things up to our 3rd-floor walk-up
For me, I have sudden hearing loss. I have no idea why this happens....
There is nothing that can't be solved with one more layer of indirection.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:08PM (1 child)
Then get a Jew to carry the heavy things.
... oops. Forgot that seldom are Jews found doing useful work. And when they are, it often isn't voluntary. A military can make them work. It appears that they're not used to working, and don't like it either. This isn't helplessness that's to be pitied. The Jews don't want to work, but barter.
So you'll have to carry the heavy things yourself, not barter or make excuses ... because doing so is to be Jewish.
(Score: 1) by marknmel on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:26PM
Is eth-fueled posting as anon now? Get some help man!
There is nothing that can't be solved with one more layer of indirection.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by engblom on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:31AM (9 children)
Many years ago I broke a bone in my left long finger. Exactly there where the bones had been growing back together I felt a pain before rainy weather for a whole year. As the healing progress went forward, the pain became less until I never noticed any pain anymore.
Still during that one year, it never failed. Always with pain came rain (or snow).
I do not know what mechanism is causing the pain before rain, but surely there is a relation between bone injury and weather.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:57PM (8 children)
Ankylosing spondylitis, think seriously bad arthritis, causes moderate to severe joint pain. An interesting side effect is that you learn to live with it, not take things so seriously, and be much happier almost all the time.
In the last decade I began to realize, at first dismissing it, but began to suspect that there was a correlation between overcast days, cold days, and increased pain. One thing that may counter this is that in some years there is also increased pain as the weather fairly suddenly changes to warm or hot days. At first I dismissed this, because it doesn't fit the stereotype. It's easy to notice the instances that fit what you are looking for, and dismiss instances that don't. It's about time someone gets some real data.
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(Score: 2, Interesting) by redneckmother on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:16PM (2 children)
When the barometer moves quickly, arthritics feel it - it doesn't matter if it's going up or down.
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:02PM (1 child)
Then, why don't they put arthritic people in a barometric chamber for a week, and ask them to record when they think the pressure went up or down?
You can even double-blind that.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:37PM
It has been done [wired.com], though that link only mentions a group of four patients for a study in a barometric chamber (obviously not enough for statistical significance; it's surprising if there have been no follow-ups to that). There have been a number of other studies that have correlated local weather conditions (specifically change in barometric pressure -- usually lowering -- and change in temperature -- usually going down) with pain reports.
(Score: 1) by purple_cobra on Monday May 01 2017, @09:10PM (4 children)
It's a shitty condition to have and I hope it's being treated adequately.
After ~6 years of being poked and prodded I'm still no closer to finding out why I have widespread, near constant joint pain. Bugger all on blood work, bugger all on x-ray/MR. Initial suggestion was possible connective tissue disorder and that's the best I've come up with in my own reading. The current treatment is opioids and amitripytline, both of which make you drowsy, the former having the added bonus of being pure arse cement. But yes, you have to accept it's there, accept it can and will limit you, but don't let it be the focus of your life; that way is not great for your mental health, in itself a way to make the physical pain feel worse.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday May 01 2017, @09:43PM (3 children)
Hope you can get a solid diagnosis and treatment.
Yes, I'm being treated well. Prescription NSAIDs. Some other drugs, and narcotic pain killers (opioids) as needed.
It is limiting, yes. But it doesn't stop me from writing code at work or dabbling with PIs, Arduinos, and other fun things on the side at home.
I have a love / hate relationship with HUMIRA. I am on again and off again about taking it. It's a trade off between hurting all the time or being sick all the time. It screws with the immune system making it easy to catch every little sniffle and cough that goes around. And the warnings and possible effects are pretty scary.
As for opioids, I don't use that much. I am offered more than I use and refuse them sometimes. I don't want to get addicted. I don't even want to build up a tolerance. When I use them they really work, and I start with a half-dose which is often enough. The doctor said that being dependent is not the same as addiction with the addictive behavior. Dependency would be no worse than being dependent on other maintenance meds people take all the time to maintain health. Still I would rather not take them except when necessary.
But on that subject, it really bothers me when I hear some new move to limit prescribing opioids. It's bad that people abuse them. But there are people like me who don't abuse them. Used carefully they improve my quality of life. Yes, something should be done. It's sad to see people that will do anything to get their next dose. And even eventually die from it, or combining it with alcohol. I try to avoid ever having a next dose. But some days it is unavoidable.
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(Score: 1) by purple_cobra on Tuesday May 02 2017, @05:40PM (2 children)
Glad to hear it's being treated about as well as it can be and that it isn't limiting you too much. I know in the past there was an emphasis on stopping the symptoms without necessarily taking quality of life in to account; you know, "so what if you can only have a crap once a week, your joints are OK aren't they?". Non-steroidals can cause nasty liver/kidney side effects but presumably you're being monitored for that as part of your HUMIRA treatment regime. I know a little bit about HUMIRA as it's also used in patients with inflammatory bowel disease, one of the departments I work in on-and-off; the side effects seem to hit everyone (everyone has an immune system, so that's logical) to a greater or lesser degree and the poor devils who get the worst of it can be very unwell indeed. Of those side effect warnings, I'm sure your doctor has told you that yes, they *can* happen but don't get too hung-up on them; you know what normal is for you and if you don't feel normal, you know to get it checked out.
And I definitely hear you on the opioids. I am hugely lucky in that I'm neither dependent nor addicted, but I can't work without taking them and I'm addicted to having a roof over my head. :)
ISTR reading about people being more likely to become addicted if they delay taking them as the brain can see this as a "reward". My doctor tells me they work more effectively if taken regularly, but I'd rather not take the damn things at all. That said, so long as they're taken responsibly they are, as you say, no worse than anything else. For the people who are addicted there's no easy solution, but if we started treating it as a health issue rather than a criminal issue then we might help more people and ultimately reduce the petty crime that funds their collective habits.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 02 2017, @08:53PM (1 child)
Yes, I'm being monitored for both the HUMIRA and methotrexate. But I sometimes stop taking HUMIRA for several months at a time. My Dr. is fine with that if I want to find a balance between taking it and not taking it. When I take it, I take it in steady regular doses. It's one of those things that makes me wonder if the cure is worse than the pain, since I've generally learned to live with it mostly without opioids.
I'm glad you also don't have a problem with opioids. I find it amusing the information about taking opioids regularly making addiction less likely. I've been using them for years and years and IMO the best advice is to avoid them generally, and use the minimal effective dose when necessary. I don't want to screw with my ability to hyperfocus. There was one occasion, years ago, where I took 1/2 tablet increments until I reached 2 tablets. I was definitely woozy. And I suddenly realized *why* people get addicted. But I had no interest in repeating that feeling considering the tradeoff. I'm not taking it for fun. I'm taking it when it feels like a wire saw cutting through my bone.
I agree that for the poor addicted people it should be a medical issue rather than a criminal one. Unless, of course, the ensuing criminal behavior cannot be stopped. As long as they can maintain on a steady dose, and hopefully ween off of it, that would seem best in my non expert opinion.
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(Score: 1) by purple_cobra on Saturday May 06 2017, @08:30PM
I took sulfasalazine for a while - up until my doctor finally listened to my protests that it was doing nothing at all! - and that required monthly blood tests for 12-18 months. As I'm no great fan of being punctured this was not welcome news, but as that stuff was supposed to alleviate the problem I just put up with it. Opioids (in my case 4-6 30/500 co-codamol daily) definitely make me feel a bit slower, less mentally alert, enough that I'd rather not take them at all, but for the moment it's either take them or don't work and I'd rather keep my job, crappy though it is. :)
I'm always surprised at the people who want to lock drug addicts up rather than get them treated, clean and functioning as members of society again. Locking people up is bloody expensive and, ultimately, isn't curing the problem, merely moving it somewhere else for a while. Given the success of countries like Portugal in modifying how they deal with addicts and, ultimately, significantly reducing the problem, it's even more puzzling.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:32AM (8 children)
How can you blind the data on a test like this? Does this have any research purpose or is it an outreach project?
(Score: 2) by engblom on Wednesday April 19 2017, @11:51AM
Very simple: Normally the pain begins right before weather change. You would just need an app to mark that you feel pain and then check from the weather stations what the weather actually became.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:16PM (6 children)
Contrary to some segments of academia's religiously held beliefs, there is value in non blinded, non placebo controlled studies. With a massive sample size like this, you can establish reliable rates of occurrence, and if there is sufficient repeatability in a given population you can then study interventions and their efficacy.
If a placebo can reduce pain for 80% of the population 80% of the time with low cost and minimal side effects, is it any less valuable than a bio-engineered drug that works for fewer people less often at higher cost with more severe side effects?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @12:38PM
If a placebo can reduce pain for 80% of the population 80% of the time with low cost and minimal side effects, is it any less valuable than a bio-engineered drug that works for fewer people less often at higher cost with more severe side effects?
<sarcasm>Obviously. Ask the pharmacy-shareholder of your trust, and he will explain the value of engineered and patented drugs to capitalism, roi [for the parmacy industry] and job-market</sarcasm>
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:48PM (1 child)
> Contrary to some segments of academia's religiously held beliefs
Woah, that is a bit of a snarky response!
> If a placebo can reduce pain for 80% of the population 80% of the time with low cost and minimal side effects
Fair enough. I guess a phrase from TFS like "but the link has never been proven" made me think that there was some aim to demonstrate a mechanism, but maybe "link" just means show a correlation/placebo-ish thing, like what you say.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday April 19 2017, @02:38PM
Showing a link is step one. If there is no link, then none of the more exacting (and expensive) followup is necessary or useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:54PM (2 children)
This shoudn't be surprising. The most advanced science is astromomy where there are no RCTs at all. The idea of RCTs as a "gold standard" is something come up with by statisticians and parroted by people who "hate math" because it seemed to sophisticate their papers. No scientist was in the loop.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20 2017, @12:35AM (1 child)
That's not relevant. Double blind tests are used when dealing with subjective data being collected from humans and animals. Cases where the person's experience might be biased by the belief about whether or not they've received a real treatment and the interpretation of the responses by researchers.
That doesn't really apply to most areas of science as the criteria tend to not be that subjective. The mass of a star isn't subject to whether or not you think that it should be less fat.
(Score: 3, Funny) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 20 2017, @09:09AM
Unless it's a Hollywood star. :-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @01:35PM
...is with McBain's voice (in your head, if you can't immitate).
(Score: 2) by donkeyhotay on Wednesday April 19 2017, @02:06PM (3 children)
I thought it had been determined long ago that a drop in barometric pressure was the culprit. Perhaps that was just a hypothesis, and they still don't know WHY a drop in barometric pressure triggers a response.
(Score: 1) by evil_aaronm on Wednesday April 19 2017, @04:41PM (1 child)
My wife suffers from this, so a while ago I looked it up and read that the drop in barometric pressure allows the tendons in the joints to swell to the point where it causes pain. Anti-inflammatories should help. In the name of science, I suggested that my wife soak in the tub to see if the water pressure helps counteract the lack of barometric pressure, but she's not as inquisitive as I am. Either that, or she likes to suffer and complain about it. Shrug.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 19 2017, @06:03PM
Increase in gas bubble formation in the joints?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:29PM
they still don't know WHY a drop in barometric pressure triggers a response.
I'd assume the reason it affects joints primarily is because those are areas where a little change in pressure (or a little expansion or contraction with cold spells or whatever) are most likely to be noticeable. This is speculation, but it's the reason I'd always assumed people complained of joint pain with weather changes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @02:25PM
People have been trusting the internet for accurate weather, and it just ain't so.
I can be standing outside with my "smart" phone and check two or three weather apps, and they all differ, and sometimes they're just plain wrong, even about current conditions. This research is doomed for failure.
(Score: 2) by Covalent on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:13PM (1 child)
...and depression can cause pain, or at least an increased perception of pain.
That might be what's happening here, not an actual physiological response.
Also, it this were true, injured people in the rainforest would be in nearly chronic pain, wouldn't they?
You can't rationally argue somebody out of a position they didn't rationally get into.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Farmer Tim on Wednesday April 19 2017, @07:59PM
There's a simple mechanical explanation which fits this: joints are cushioned by synovial fluid, limbs are more subject to changes in temperature than the body core, and as we well know temperature affects the density (and hence volume) of fluids. Conceivably barometric pressure could also change the density of the synovial fluid relative to the surrounding muscle and bone, as it's less dense. In rheumatoid arthritis the synovial membrane is inflamed; that inflammation is the critical part here, since it causes sensitivity to changes in shape (that much is definite).
This could be confirmed or debunked with MRI scans taken at different air pressures and temperatures, but that would be too expensive to justify without a statistically significant positive correlation indicating it isn't psychological, which is precisely why this survey is being done.
Came for the news, stayed for the soap opera.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 19 2017, @03:51PM (4 children)
I've known a lot of peopel with aches and pains. None of them ever seemed to reliably predict the weather. Of all the people I've known who claimed joint pain (or whatever) ahead of storms, only a couple seemed to be somewhat reliable. No, it doesn't count when the first gusts are tearing shingles off of houses across the neighborhood, and Joe Schmoe says, "I knew there was a reason my blah-blah was hurting so bad!" Joe didn't mention any pain all morning long, but at 1:PM he sees a shingle fly off of a roof, and suddenly he hurts? I call bullshit.
I have my own aches and pains. There have been occassions when my pains flared up, just ahead of severe weather. But, no, it is not a reliable predictor. I've suffered horrible aches and pains in the middle of long dry spells, and I've seen the weather change drastically without any pain indicators.
Maybe - just maybe - SOME people can predict upcoming storms, but I'll need some decent evidence before I believe them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:14PM (2 children)
I have a theory that those who can predict such things are more connected to the planet. They are also pure and not mixed. Mixed genes and mixed races stop people from being alive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 19 2017, @05:53PM (1 child)
What determines what a race is? Is race like a sort of kind [wikipedia.org] or baramin for humans?
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 20 2017, @09:14AM
A race is a competition for speed. Rheumatism certainly is not helpful in a race, especially if it is strong enough to effectively immobilize you.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 19 2017, @08:54PM
It is easy to notice the correlations you want to see and dismiss the ones you don't.
Also, if you have pain you are aware of it and give it thought. You take note of it. You remember it the next day or after the weather has changed. If you don't have pain, you don't notice that. Most people don't think about a lack of pain.
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