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posted by martyb on Sunday May 07 2017, @12:41PM   Printer-friendly
from the didn't-get-the-memo dept.

We had two Soylentils submit stories about a family being ordered off a plane by Delta Airlines.

Forced off a Delta Plane and for Keeping Their Seat

A California family used the seat their 18-year old son didn't use because he left with an earlier flight. They made use of it for their child instead, but were forced off the Delta Air Lines plane and threatened with jail after refusing to give it up on the crowded flight..

View all the raw glory or do it with some commentary.

In other news don't use the bathroom, ask for water, or be autistic.

Last time it was United Air's Abuses: Doing the Heavy-Handed Thing a Third Time.

Delta Airlines: "Give Up the Seat or You're Going to Jail"

AlterNet reports

Brian Schear, of Huntington Beach, said he and his family were flying overnight from Hawaii to Los Angeles last week when [Delta Airlines] employees asked them to give up the seat where their 2-year-old son was sitting, reported KABC-TV.

[...] "You have to give up the seat or you're going to jail, your wife is going to jail and they'll take your kids from you," Schear recalled the flight attendant saying.

Delta employees wanted the family to hold the young child in their laps during the flight, but Schear argued that they had bought the boy a ticket because he needed to sit in his car seat to sleep.

An employee inaccurately told the family the boy needed to sit in a seat with an adult, because the airline's website recommends that children under 2 years old should sit in an approved child seat in a ticketed seat of their own.

The entire family was ordered off the plane, and they stayed overnight in a hotel and bought new tickets the following day, reported KTLA-TV

Video

BTW, can someone tell me what ecver= in a YouTube URL means?

Previous:
Male American Airlines Flight Attendant Hits Mother of Twins with Stroller
United Air's Abuses: Doing the Heavy-Handed Thing a Third Time
Passenger Violently Removed From Overbooked United Airlines Flight


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

Related Stories

Passenger Violently Removed From Overbooked United Airlines Flight 168 comments

NPR reports

Passengers on a United Express flight from Chicago to Louisville, Ky., were horrified when a man was forcibly removed--violently wrenched from his seat and physically dragged down the aisle. [...] Videos of the scene have prompted calls to boycott United Airlines.

[...] The Chicago Department of Aviation [...] says the actions of the security officers were "not condoned by the Department" and that one individual has been placed on leave pending a review.

[...] Passengers had already boarded on Sunday evening [April 10] at O'Hare International Airport when United asked for volunteers to take another flight the next day to make room for four United staff members who needed seats.

The airline offered $400 and a free hotel, passenger Audra D. Bridges told the Louisville Courier-Journal. When no one volunteered, the offer was doubled to $800. When there were still no bites, the airline selected four passengers to leave the flight--including the man in the video and his wife.

"They told him he had been selected randomly to be taken off the flight", Bridges said.

[...] The man said he was a doctor and that he "needed to work at the hospital the next day", passenger Jayse D. Anspach said.

[...] Both Bridges and Anspach posted videos of three security officers, who appear to be wearing the uniforms of Chicago aviation police, wrenching the man out of his seat, prompting wails. His face appeared to strike an armrest. Then they dragged his limp body down the aisle.

Footage shows the man was bleeding from the mouth as they dragged him away. His glasses were askew and his shirt was riding up over his belly.

"It looked like he was knocked out, because he went limp and quiet and they dragged him out of the plane like a rag doll", Anspach wrote.

Previous: Days After United Settlement, Baggage Handler Locked in Cargo Hold on NC-to-DC Flight


Original Submission

United Air's Abuses: Doing the Heavy-Handed Thing a Third Time 49 comments

Ever thought that this headline was a "shit happens" event?
2017-04-09 Passenger Violently Removed From Overbooked United Airlines Flight

And sometimes one can be unlucky twice?
2017-04-12 United is Heavy-Handed Again: Boarded, Seated Passenger Threatened With Cuffs to Disembark

No! United Airlines is at third strike right now 2017-04-15:
  * A couple says they were kicked off a United flight on the way to their wedding
  * A bride and groom were kicked off their United Airlines flight from Houston this weekend as they traveled to Costa Rica for their wedding.

Td;lr: Married couple finds their seats in economy class taken up by a sleeping man. By courtesy they just sit down on seats three rows away which happened to be in economy plus class on a flight which is half empty. They asked to upgrade but were refused and then headed to their assigned seats. However by then the airline had decided that they were rule breakers and must be thrown off regardless.

Details: United Airlines flight number 1737 on 2017-04-15. George Bush Intercontinental Airport (Houston, Texas) on Saturday to Liberia, Costa Rica.

Last time after the second incident, the stock took a fall from 69.8 to 69 US$ (UAL). One can ask how much this will cost in market value decimation and in customers dropping them? What will the economist and MBA, CEO, Oscar Muñoz say?


Original Submission

Male American Airlines Flight Attendant Hits Mother of Twins with Stroller 79 comments

KTLA TV in Los Angeles reports Video Shows American Airlines Flight Attendant Telling Passenger "Hit Me" After Taking Stroller From Mother

Video of an altercation on an American Airlines flight [April 21] shows an airline employee challenging a passenger to hit him after a flight attendant violently grabbed a woman's stroller [(pram)], according to eyewitnesses.

It's unclear what happened before passengers on flight 591 from San Francisco to Dallas/Ft. Worth started recording, but video shared on Facebook shows a sobbing mother clutching a young child toward the front of the plane, asking employees to give back her stroller.

According to multiple witnesses, the woman, who is from Argentina and was flying internationally, brought her stroller on the plane. When the flight attendant attempted to remove the stroller from the plane, there was an altercation which resulted in the stroller striking the woman and nearly hitting her child.

[...][Passenger and witness Olivia] Morgan said she talked to the woman about the incident. The woman said a female flight attendant told her she could look for space to store the stroller because it folds up very small, but if there was no available space, she would need to check it at the gate.

"She was looking for space when the male attendant tried to take it away from her... and she said she told him the other attendant had told her it was okay to look", [Morgan] said.

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  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @01:02PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @01:02PM (#505815)

    BTW, can someone tell me what ecver= in a YouTube URL means?

    It means "trim this before posting the link; the only thing you need is the v= parameter"

    • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:08PM

      by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:08PM (#505847)

      t=000s allows you to specify a specific point in the video.

      I wonder if it has some thing to with multiple versions in the case a video gets replaced.

    • (Score: 1) by cloud.pt on Monday May 08 2017, @02:48PM

      by cloud.pt (5516) on Monday May 08 2017, @02:48PM (#506368)

      I believe it's something to do with the embedding - either for the video to show nicely embedded in an external site, or to let Youtube know it's coming from an embed site (for whatever big data-mining Google likes to do).

      So like AC said, all you need is the ...v=[vid id here, not optional]

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday May 07 2017, @01:42PM (23 children)

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Sunday May 07 2017, @01:42PM (#505827) Journal

    I've read about this a couple days ago, and the story doesn't really add up. It's unclear what really happened that led up to this confrontation.

    Before I say anything else, let me be clear that there is absolutely no justification for the threats against the family (jailtime, taking away kids), the incorrect assertions by Delta (it's actually against FAA regulations for children over 2 to fly in a lap), or forcing them off the plane once they agreed to cooperate. By the way, Delta has apparently confirmed that the flight was not overbooked, and other sites indicate this was done to accommodate a standby passenger.

    So, how did this happen?

    Early coverage suggested that the family boarded without using their teenager's ticket, yet still expected to reappropriate his seat for their toddler. Obviously if this happened, there is no justification for the family using the seat. The 18-year-old would have been identified as a "no show" in the system, thereby leading to its reallocation to a standby customer. While Delta was clearly in the wrong in the way they made their request, if the family didn't check-in their 18-year-old or use his boarding pass, exactly how was Delta to know their intentions? (That said, there's the weirdness that they apparently let the family on the plane with TWO carseats for their two kids. If they only had three boarding passes, in my experience the people at the gate would have told them they needed to check the other carseat.)

    Some other coverage has suggested that they DID use the 18-year-old's ticket. This is against Delta policy not to allow transferring tickets (and against security procedures if the family pretended their toddler was a different child), but in that case, how did Delta even know anything was weird? Why would they attempt to reassign the seat if it had been listed in the system with a valid scanned boarding pass? Did they somehow magically locate this seat (likely the only one on the plane with the "wrong" passenger in it)?

    In the KABC story linked in the summary, the father apparently suggested in an interview that: "He says Delta knew he was planning to use the seat for his younger son when they boarded their return flight." That's a detail I haven't seen reported elsewhere. Again, what does that mean, exactly? Does it mean that he didn't check in his 18-year-old, but asked gate agents about the fact he had previously purchased another seat? And then a gate agent told him it would be okay to use it, but then didn't enter that into the system correctly, thereby resulting in the standby reassignment? Or did he inform the gate agent that he was planning to use a boarding pass for his 18-year-old instead for a 2-year-old with a different name? It seems unlikely Delta would agree to that, since it would be against security policy. In that case, even if Delta agreed, they'd have likely reissued the boarding pass in the right name, which would completely invalidate their later actions to remove the family from that seat.

    And in any case, it just seems really unlikely that Delta would agree to either on a flight that had standby passengers. So who exactly did the dad tell at Delta, and what exactly did they authorize?

    This is all a very strange story, and we don't have the facts. Was the family justified in claiming the seat or not? A lot depends on how this happened.

    Again, whoever was at fault, nothing justifies Delta's ultimate treatment of the family. And really, the background problem to all of this is the non-transferable ticket policy of most airlines, which makes them billions of dollars each year with no benefit for customers whatsoever. (There are no security concerns about allowing ticket transfers; as noted in one of the links in the summary, the TSA has said they can run an instant check on any new passenger.)

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @02:41PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @02:41PM (#505838)

      Before I can judge, I need to know if these were Good Folks or not. Does anyone have a photograph or a surname?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:49PM (2 children)

        by Gaaark (41) on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:49PM (#505871) Journal

        I modded this funny because it IS in a sad way:

        how many times it matters.

        What would your initial thought be if you saw they were Muslim/black/jew/sweet transvestite/Ethanol Fueled/poor white trash (tramp stamp and all) versus:

        a good, nice white bread family.

        Would it happen if it was someone like Hillary Clinton with grandkids? YOu bet your sweet jackalope nope, no matter what the sityation.

        Funny.... but sad.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:53PM (#505961)

          You missed the part where a surname was given in the summary: Brian Schear, of Huntington Beach. Had none been given, the GP might have had a point. As it is, he just looks lazy.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @10:21PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @10:21PM (#506021)

          There is video documentation and other written documentation to go by. Not much need to use prejudgement. Muslims may actually be a security liability as statistics prove. As for black/jew/sweet transvestite/Ethanol Fueled/poor white trash.. who cares.

          I think the most important matter is what factors are involved when the airline makes up their decision process. And in most cases it's their own perverted economic incentives and complete deafness in social reciprocity that makes then end up making an ass of themselves.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:09PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:09PM (#505906)

        Haha the secret racists are downmodding a funny post... I guess as a country the US still isn't ready to admit it has a massive problem with bigotry. Nationalist scum, you think you're helping your country with such attitudes but it is actually the opposite. Oh, and you also promote ideas counter to the great values the USA used to inspire around the world. Today? Imperialistic scum wreaking havoc in other countries for profit and cultural warfare. #1 for imprisoning citizens FTW!!! Oh wait, we're beat out by the Seychelles with their massive population of around 100,000 people and they actually imprison ACTUAL pirates.

        Come on you nationalist pricks, downmod some more because you don't like hearing the truth!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @06:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @06:40PM (#505944)

          No one needs to downmod you. It's readily apparent to anyone that reads your comment what a useless, jealous prick you are.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @10:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @10:38PM (#506027)

          Can't deal with the fact that East-Asians and White people make up the most productive population where brains and less tribal instincts are success factors?

          Now USA might have a lot of bigotry but this doesn't change the basic factors at play. And where these populations thrive the values you so much appreciate also by some mysterious ways have a very high likelihood to present themselves and be sustained.

    • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:47PM (3 children)

      by Whoever (4524) on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:47PM (#505867) Journal

      I think that there is fault on both sides. I think it likely that the 18-year old was not checked-in, leading to his seat being reassigned.

      However, Delta failed to give the family a refund for their tickets, after bogus threats of jail time, so clearly there is fault on the part of the airline.

      Frankly, given the recent incidents in the news, I cannot imagine what these airline employees were thinking.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:27PM (1 child)

        by sjames (2882) on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:27PM (#505951) Journal

        There's the problem. They made no effort to figure out what was going on or to amicably resolve the problem, they just started lying about the laws and regulations and making outrageous (and patently false) threats, including threatening a parent with losing their child! They treated the family's every attempt to provide information in hopes of a resolution to the obvious (to them) confusion as a flat refusal to RESPECT THEIR AUTHORITI.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @01:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @01:02AM (#506097)

          everybody in this country is turning into little authoritarians. listen to the condescending tone in the second woman's/plane skank's voice. you are under her and she's going to make sure you do what you're told, preferably while groveling. the only thing these people understand or respect is power. they think because their industry is in bed with the tsa they can treat you like slaves. of course, they just watched you get herded through the lines while being molested or irradiated like little suck ass sheep. not to blame the victim but what kind of dumb whore is still flying at this point? like everything's fine and it's just transportation. make them motherfuckers go out of business. a nationwide boycott would end the tsa and the airlines attitude real fucking quick. Or let the industry die. Every time the scum in washington think they can dictate to the people just stop funding it, jackasses. sell outs sell out though i guess huh?

      • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday May 08 2017, @09:50AM

        by TheRaven (270) on Monday May 08 2017, @09:50AM (#506270) Journal
        If the 18-year-old took an earlier flight, presumably he was re-booked and so had all of the available refunds (plane tickets are often non-refundable) applied against his new ticket. It sounds as if these people were trying to commit fraud by using a cancelled ticket.
        --
        sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:47PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @03:47PM (#505868)

      Finally got around to googling your alias -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_Kircher [wikipedia.org]
      Very interesting, I guess it's a compliment that you are trifling with us here on SN.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:11PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:11PM (#505907)

        I wonder if we have any more of these centuries old intellectuals lurking?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:53PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:53PM (#505979)

          Well, there is aristarchus...

    • (Score: 2) by choose another one on Sunday May 07 2017, @04:07PM (4 children)

      by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 07 2017, @04:07PM (#505877)

      Exactly - the key is what seat number is on the boarding card for the 2yr old kid, that's the seat they can claim. If it says on-parents-lap (or whatever phrasing they use) then the 2yr old doesn't have a seat - that should be end of story.

      If the guy doesn't _have_ a boarding card for the 2yr old but instead has used the one he got for the 18yr old, then security has been bypassed and they have probably committed an offence as well - but like you, I don't think that is what happened because then the system wouldn't have allocated the seat to someone else.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by goodie on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:55PM (3 children)

        by goodie (1877) on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:55PM (#505930) Journal

        I don't know... last year we had bought our 1.5yo daughter her own seat because we wanted to use the car seat. We boarded got settled etc. And then came along a standby stewardess who claimed that she had her seat assigned. She was polite but quite adamant about the fact that it was her seat even though I showed her the boarding pass and even the freaking bill from our travel agent showing my daughter as having her own seat. In the end she went out of the plane, made a few calls came back and claimed that she had arranged things. We just told her that there was no issue to begin with until she went and created one. Her whole point was that a 2yo or less should be on the lap. To which we told her fuck no, we are allowed to buy a ticket for her so she can have a proper restraining device...

        Overall airlines seem to do some pretty dirty things when it comes down to bumping their own... assholes.

        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:33PM (1 child)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:33PM (#505975) Journal

          Thanks for that story -- sorry you had to go through that, but that sheds yet another light on this situation.

          But even then, the facts make no sense in relation to this story. The family actually had a seat for a younger (less than 2 years old) child TOO. Presumably, if the 2-year-old was in the "18-year-old's seat," then the younger kid must have been in the "2-year-old's seat." Even if something like your situation was happening, why would they try to relocate the 2-year-old to a lap (which is contrary to FAA and Delta regulations), rather than the younger child (who, presumably, the parents must have originally planned to have seated in a lap)?

          Once again, this whole situation makes no sense, and we'll probably never know what actually happened, because it's likely a combination of both parties trying to "get away with" something they shouldn't have, so they'll just settle it between themselves.

          • (Score: 2) by goodie on Monday May 08 2017, @12:26AM

            by goodie (1877) on Monday May 08 2017, @12:26AM (#506077) Journal

            I have to agree with you on that we are still missing some details but indeed if you do not board and are a no show technically the airline can give th seat to someone else. I was just venting out some frustration about airlines and standby passengers ;).

        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday May 07 2017, @11:21PM

          by kaszz (4211) on Sunday May 07 2017, @11:21PM (#506049) Journal

          It seems the stories people tell all converge on that airlines behaves as if they can take bought seat property as they see fit. What's needed is some serious lawsuit and civil obedience. So that they will be aware of the fact that if they don't play ball no else need to return the favor.

          There must be some basic rules laid down. That when a seat position has been bought and checked in (done when entering the physical airport). The airline can't back out of the deal or they will be charged with fraud. And compensation shall be in cash or bank deposits. No f-cking vouchers for further screwline experiences.

          This also makes me wonder if they are also trying to undercut maintenance for critical parts. Just like Alaska Airlines did in 1999 with a MD80 where the service inspections were increased in direct violation of manufacturer requirements of every 600 hours to 2400 hours. The result were 88 dead.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @05:51PM (#505928)

      Also, if I was a standby passenger and I was put next to 2 adults with 2 toddlers on their laps, I would be livid.

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Monday May 08 2017, @02:20AM

      by driverless (4770) on Monday May 08 2017, @02:20AM (#506132)

      Executives from United, American, Southwest and Alaska testified at one or both hearings. Delta was notably absent.

      I guess they won't be absent from the next set of hearings...

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @01:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @01:09PM (#506328)

      God, not another "something doesn't add up" idiot. Ok, Colombo.

  • (Score: 1) by MorePower on Sunday May 07 2017, @04:35PM (1 child)

    by MorePower (5891) on Sunday May 07 2017, @04:35PM (#505888)

    If the kid was a two-year old, they wouldn't have let him on without his own seat. They make you show proof of age (less than 24 months old) if you are going to carry the kid on your lap.
    So was the kid two (and thus must have had his own seat assigned) or was this a lap baby (that must have been a newborn or 1-year old)?

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:45PM

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Sunday May 07 2017, @08:45PM (#505977) Journal

      There are at least three possible explanations:

      (1) They used the 18-year-old's boarding pass for the 2-year-old.
      (2) They used the 2-year-old's boarding pass for the 2-year-old, but there was also a younger sibling with them too (less than 2). In that case, they put the younger sibling (who was apparently checked in as a "lap baby"?) in the 2-year-old's seat, and put the 2-year-old in the alleged seat of the 18-year-old.
      (3) The parents lied about the age of their 2-year-old. Not all airlines check proof of age all the time. Yes, you should have it with you, because they can check -- but they don't always.

      We don't know which possibility is actually the case here.

  • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:06PM (2 children)

    by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:06PM (#505947)

    Maybe I'm just not understanding the travel and hospitality business, but when travel is *already* going off a cliff, wouldn't it make more sense to encourage using your services rather than try to alienate them further?

    It's almost as if the entire American airlines industry are *trying* to put themselves out of business.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 07 2017, @07:46PM (#505957)

      go out of business? they don't care. they will be bailed out again.

    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday May 07 2017, @11:23PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday May 07 2017, @11:23PM (#506050) Journal

      The people that make the decisions have their incentives elsewhere so it won't matter to them.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @02:14AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @02:14AM (#506129)

    One person in the family was a no show, which means the seat is forfeit. The family tried to use the lost seat for their lap child, and the airline said no. Putting the two year old in that seat and the little one in the two year old's seat was a diversion. Sure they can be sent to jail for disobeying the flight crew. Follow the f*cking rules. If you cause trouble like that it's no better than an unruly drunk passenger who gets booted before takeoff.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @02:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @02:13PM (#506353)

      They paid for the seat. Thus they should either be allowed to use the seat, or get their money back.

      Anything else would be plain fraud by the airline, no matter what stupid rules they can make up to try to get away with it.

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