Last week, Phoronix broke a story about the kernel DRM group over at FreeDesktop.org submitting a pull request for their code of conduct to be included in the kernel docs for the DRM subsystem. The next day it was merged.
I'm particularly interested in if they think this will keep Linus from saying hurtful things to them over lousy code. Discuss.
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Torvalds Merges DRM CoC Into 4.12 Development Repo
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(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Monday May 08 2017, @05:10PM
It's the inclusion of a doc about the project. Including a project's logo probably has more significance (trademark issues).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Monday May 08 2017, @05:17PM (8 children)
No. Linux can say hurtful things all he wants, and the DRM people can shove it. If they want Linus to honor their pull requests, they have to put up with him, for better or for worse. But within their own little group, they're free to have their own code of conduct, which they can enforce on their members. Linus isn't a member of their group, so it doesn't apply to him.
(Score: 1) by bart on Monday May 08 2017, @05:35PM (3 children)
I wonder how often Linus gets called Linux :-)
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @06:05PM (1 child)
It would have been funny if Linus had named his kernel "Freeix" like he wanted, and everyone called him Fritz Torvalds instead.
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday May 08 2017, @11:18PM
Thanks alot man. You gave me a complex! Now every time I hear the words "Fritz Torvalds" I break down in hysterical laughter. You fucked me up man! WTF? Seriously!
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @06:42PM
Maybe less often then I see people referring to Linux as Linus where I work. That happens practically every day.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @05:39PM (1 child)
They still have to interact with other groups code and interfaces which can result in "your code sucks!" and Linus can probably "Haven't been fixed for 8 months, removed from repository!" ;-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @07:32PM
If he's going to start pulling buggy code from the repository that hasn't been fixed for eight months (or heck, eight years), there won't be a whole lot of code left.
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Monday May 08 2017, @05:43PM (1 child)
Is Linus a contributor to FreeDesktop.org code? If not, then would its code of conduct apply?
Linus could be a bit more diplomatic. Like saying, that code, between lines 1191 and 1268 is the largest steaming pile of festering putrid goat vomit I have ever seen. By applying more best practices I believe it could be improved, perhaps all the way up to the level of rotting bovine carcasses. Please tweak and resubmit your patch. Thank you for your efforts.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by VLM on Monday May 08 2017, @06:51PM
That looks acceptable as per a careful read of
http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/ [contributor-covenant.org]
I believe that was very carefully written. For example referring to goat fuckers would not fly, but carefully referencing goat vomit instead is all good.
The leftist types have a pretty severe arrogance problem. I joined the military not long after it was not allowed for drill sgts to hit recruits or swear, and being rather intelligent they pretty much had free reign although technically they never did anything wrong by the letter of the law. It should be fairly trivial to maintain operations inside a politically restrictive speech code.
Obviously the point of these codes is entryism, to issue version 2.0 containing mandatory "workers of the world unite" commentary, anti-white anti-male hatred coded into the covenant, etc. But for today they're pretty lame.
My gut level guess is the main effect of attempts at entryism will be dual licensing and the death of the GPL licensed code owned by a project. The code is mine, all mine, exclusively mine, and I dual license it under the GPL as a favor, but attempt a political takeover or political fork and you'll be in violation of trademark law etc.
I remember in the 80s learning about GPL for the first time and shareware and BSDs and all that and thinking by 2020 on sheer numbers most source code isn't going to be in English its going to be Chinese so what am I going to do? However for whatever social and IQ reasons the demographics of FOSS contributors has nothing to do with the demographics of the world or computer users or computer owners. Its like a cultural appropriation thing for them to get into FOSS.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 08 2017, @05:37PM (1 child)
is meaningless bullshit. Freedom of speech, etc, blah blah blah. They aren't going to trap Linus that easily. Linux people pulled a document, la-ti-da - you're not bound to any contract just by reading it. Microsoft and others have gotten away with their terms BS - "if you don't accept these terms, click no, the installation program will terminate, and you can roast in hell" or words to that effect. But, reading a document still doesn't bind you to the terms spelled out in the document.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @07:16PM
Trap Linus how? He will probably not hesitate to "you code sucks! - removed" ;-)
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday May 08 2017, @05:39PM (5 children)
Suddenly I have a renewed interest in BSD.
I've seen something or other about Gentoo supporting a BSD kernel, FreeBSD specifically [gentoo.org]. Is dropping a FreeBSD kernel on an existing system something I'd want to do like giving a TuxOnIce Linux kernel a spin instead of the usual Gentoo-patched Linux kernel, or is switching over something onerous like enabling selinux such that I'd be best just starting over fresh?
Do I even want to stick with Gentoo if I'm going *BSD or even FreeBSD? How does ports compare to portage?
Finally, I keep holding out hope that one of these days I'm going to buy a AAA game (a modern AAA game, not one that was AAA 10 years ago and just happens to have a port by a 3rd party or else will run under WINE) and it'll support a free as in speech operating system. What practical experiences have people had with newer nVidia cards under *BSD?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @05:48PM
No practical experience. But in general avoid NVidia cards. If you have to use them, try the Nouveau driver but NVidia actually makes FreeBSD drivers too. But as always it's a *blob*. Then there's the VESA BIOS driver, but that is in general only good for desktop and browser use. Still NVidia tries all kinds of shenanigans [tomshardware.com].
Intel or AMD/ATI graphics is usually a better choice in that order.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:22PM
You can't just "drop in" FreeBSD kernel on your existing system. It's not even something like enabling selinux. You need to do an entire clean install, because freebsd and linux have different syscall tables, different base libraries, different base utilities, and different filesystems.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday May 08 2017, @10:27PM
Finally, I keep holding out hope that one of these days I'm going to buy a AAA game and it'll support a free as in speech operating system.
Huh? What is a 'free as in speech operating system' ? I mean XCOM/XCOM2 runs on linux, Civ6, Borderlands Pre-Sequel, Shadows of Mordor, Dota2, Stellaris... that's a fairly diverse bunch. Your right, there's still more misses than hits, but that's a decent bunch.
(Score: 1) by invis on Monday May 08 2017, @11:15PM
My GTX 960 works fine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 09 2017, @08:06PM
It is either the nvidia proprietary driver if you're running FreeBSD (and only FreeBSD), or the freedesktop.org drm drivers ported over from linux if you're using the libre drivers.
Furthermore, I will note that despite the BSD projects stating they use the 'BSD license', many of them do in fact have 'license encumbered code', including in the kernel. Said code ranged from CDDL, to Apache, to more questionable licenses. The one benefit linux has going right now is that *ALL* code in the kernel *HAS* to be GPLv2, or it can't be included. BSD on the other hand has *TONS* of code advertised as 'FEATURES' that isn't enabled by default because it would result in the kernel being non-redistributable.
If you don't believe me, go read through the FreeBSD kernel source configuration file (I forget if GENERIC has it, or if you have to look through one of the other files for the 'FULL' configuration options. Regardless it has a number of warnings in it about exactly that.)
Decide for yourself which is freer, or better helps you avoid running afoul of licensing missteps. At least the GPL is honest and straightforward about its requirements and responsibilities. The BSD kernels will some/all optional features enabled? Not so much.
These statements exclude firmware binaries and their associated licenses. From there you have to jump to Linux-Libre or similiar to have NO potential submarine license issues.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @06:00PM (1 child)
Fuck you fucking cockfuckers!
(Score: 2) by Soylentbob on Monday May 08 2017, @09:53PM
Isn't the right capitalization in this context CoCK [pastebin.com]?
(Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Monday May 08 2017, @06:01PM (2 children)
Oh noes! A private organization wants to codify the rules of their organization. The TYRANNY!!!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @07:07PM (1 child)
Stupid libturd.
My freedom of speech is more important than anyone else's freedom of association.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:48PM
Right, its only OK when a corporation does it....
(Score: 5, Informative) by maxwell demon on Monday May 08 2017, @06:10PM (5 children)
It might be useful to mention that "DRM" in the context of the Linux kernel means "Direct Rendering Manager", as opposed to the more familiar "Digital Rights Management".
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @06:13PM (2 children)
Bend over and RENDER yourself for a DIRECT COCKING.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @06:19PM (1 child)
Sigh. I see the 10 yr. olds from Slashdot have made it here.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:34PM
where else could they possibly have come from?!? Seriously.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @07:51PM
Or as R.Stallman wisefully keeps reminding us, more accurately means: "Digital Restrictions Management"
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Monday May 08 2017, @10:44PM
Well, it can't be too Direct anymore.
(Score: 5, Touché) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @06:11PM (4 children)
Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct [freedesktop.org]
Some suspicion that FreeDesktop will be relieved of any harsh criticism. Instead reality will bite, hard. It tends to be reality correct and have no mercy for bullshit.
Some takes on the guidelines .. :-)
Using welcoming and inclusive language
Get a f-cking clue.
Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
Don't code like a Microsofter.
Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
You are wrong, again. RTFS. Your experience is irrelevant.
Showing empathy towards other community members
I think all your code is a security shithole. Kind of like Intel strnnnnnncmp(),
The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances
Grow some balls, wanna try mine?
Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
This isn't barbie coding, you little safe spacer.
Public or private harassment
Your "if( a = b )" assigns instead of comparing!
Publishing others' private information, such as a physical or electronic address, without explicit permission
Human resource drones at Big Corp, go away.
Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting
You are wrong.
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday May 08 2017, @11:12PM (2 children)
I have to reply to say thank you for this post. It made me laugh quite awhile, not just because it's funny (it is funny to me at least), or true, but because of how you wrote it.
Thanks again.
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 09 2017, @03:15AM
Really?
I thought it was the biggest whiny snowflake post in the entire discussion.
A bunch of projection, grievance and smugness all wrapped up into one completely non-self-aware diatribe.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by kaszz on Tuesday May 09 2017, @03:44AM
The problem is so many people have too high thoughts about their technical abilities. And will try to shoot the messenger and regulate them.... The only thing that works with nature is experience and intelligence but nature is still circumstantial and consequential without exception. So people still need to be humble at take their mistakes as a learning experience not an offense. Talent is not evenly distributed, it's just life. No exempts for busy people or snowflaking.
All these SJW, codes and HR departments just complicates direct and efficient communication. Something that can't sustain itself but like a parasite attaches to any large organization. It becomes like a smiling theater that has no substance.
(Score: 2) by bart9h on Thursday May 11 2017, @08:11PM
Your "if( a = b )" assigns instead of comparing!
What if you want to know if the value of the variable D is equal to eight?
8==D
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday May 08 2017, @06:56PM (35 children)
Firstly, the CoC [freedesktop.org] applies to those who are part of the freedesktop.org community. If you're not, why should you give a damn?
The goals seem to be fairly reasonable, the issues will really only come if the CoC is re-purposed to punish or force folks out, rather than fostering a positive environment. Execution is everything here.
Using a CoC to stifle dissenting ideas and ostracize folks with whom you disagree can (and has) destroy an OSS project. This is not a positive outcome, but some folks (and they come in every stripe) are intolerant fuckheads.
As such, it seems to me that CoCs aren't the problem, intolerant and thin-skinned assholes are the problem.
As far as the FreeDesktop CoC is concerned, it seems to me that few (IMHO) would suggest that the goals are not laudable:
The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances
I don't want to see goatse or get hit on in a software development forum. If I want to see porn or find a sex partner, there are more appropriate forums.
Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
Saying "your code sucks and here's why..." isn't troiling or insulting, assuming that said person's code actually sucks.
Saying "your code sucks because you're a dick" doesn't add anything and diminishes cooperative environments.
Saying stuff like "you like to fuck small animals and wet the bed..." or "You [Hillary|Trump|Sanders] supporters will be the first up against the wall..." has no place in a software development forum.
Public or private harassment
This is inappropriate pretty much everywhere. Full stop.
Publishing others' private information, such as a physical or electronic address, without explicit permission
Who thinks doxxing is appropriate?
Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting
What are the goals of Freedesktop.org? according to them [freedesktop.org]:
If it doesn't relate to the above, what is someone's purpose in injecting it into the discussion?
===
All that said, it should be obvious that folks should act in reasonable ways and treat others with a modicum of respect. Sadly, there are a number (usually vanishingly small but quite vociferous) of folks who are fucking assholes.
It's those folks at whom CoCs are aimed. Unfortunately, some folks try (and sometimes succeed) to hijack these measures to suit their own ends. As such, toxicity can come from several directions. Unless those who are tasked with executing and enforcing CoCs are reasonable people, there will be problems.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @07:22PM (10 children)
The CoC may prevent the negative feedback needed to keep a project on track. And we all know how a positive feedback loop works in the long run..
Some people just needs to know that that their design or code just won't cut it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Monday May 08 2017, @07:24PM (6 children)
Sometimes negative feedback doesn't help either. Look at Gnome/systemd.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Monday May 08 2017, @07:42PM (5 children)
Gnome, I'll give you. Nothing bad said about gnome made the slightest difference.
But the negative feedback systemd received seems to have helped immensely in the documentation area. Its at least intelligible and coherent these days.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @07:46PM (3 children)
Yeah, the tsunami of negative feedback about systemd was about the documentation.
Pull my finger frojack!
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @08:46PM (2 children)
It's probably just a defensive reaction. They know system'd is "a disaster" like the White house would put it.. But at least it's a known how the junk works.
Now we just need to find Poetternigg and nuke from orbit to be sure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:02PM
Your projection of what you believe to what they "know" is pretty funny.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Tuesday May 09 2017, @01:05AM
Now we just need to find Poetternigg and nuke from orbit to be sure.
While I approve of your methods, I disagree with the payload of your ordinance. A nuke isn't nearly enough to eradicate systemd and its originator from the solar system. I think you'd need some sort of discombobulator to obliterate a planet. Launching a firm of hive-mind lawyers against the targets might work too.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday May 08 2017, @08:58PM
... but it still exists.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday May 08 2017, @08:00PM (2 children)
The CoC may prevent the negative feedback needed to keep a project on track. And we all know how a positive feedback loop works in the long run..
As long as reasonable people whose goal is the success of the project are executing/enforcing a CoC, that shouldn't be an issue. If someone with a different agenda is doing so, there may well be problems.
If everyone acted professionally, and got involved to achieve a shared goal, clearly defined rules wouldn't be necessary. Sadly, there are often a few that can't or won't do so.
Some people just needs to know that that their design or code just won't cut it.
As I explicitly said, that sort of communication should be appropriate.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @08:51PM (1 child)
As I explicitly said, that sort of communication should be appropriate.
The problem is that some people just can't handle declined affirmation. Be it snowflake or someone with high position in a established company that just can't hack it that a 16 year old with pimples smack their fingers at security.
As soon as there are rules. There will also be people that find all kinds of "bu-but you broke rule 2.4.34. section z five days ago!". In the larger society they are called lawyers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:04PM
> The problem is that some people just can't handle declined affirmation.
I don't think you intended to go meta with your response.
But you sure did.
(Score: 2, Touché) by kurenai.tsubasa on Monday May 08 2017, @07:57PM (8 children)
I think you're being disrespectful. I'm also going to pull my status here. Unless you're a womyn-born-womyn, I outrank you.
If you ask me to identify which part of your post was disrespectful, I'll take that as further disrespect and accuse you of both transphobia and misogyny. I might even telephone (or is it tweet these days?) some white knights and ask them to pipe up on the mailing list insinuating that you're an incel who hates women because you can't get laid. I will do this even if, and possibly especially if, I have reason to believe you're a homosexual man.
If you attempt to point out that these white knights are engaged in “Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks” or maybe “The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances,” you're wrong. See above where I pulled rank^Wstatus. I outrank you.
***
Anyway, my point is you are dealing with people who are deranged hypocritical sociopaths (possibly psychopaths too, but IANAPsychologist).
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday May 08 2017, @08:43PM (5 children)
I think you're being disrespectful. I'm also going to pull my status here. Unless you're a womyn-born-womyn, I outrank you.
If you ask me to identify which part of your post was disrespectful, I'll take that as further disrespect and accuse you of both transphobia and misogyny. I might even telephone (or is it tweet these days?) some white knights and ask them to pipe up on the mailing list insinuating that you're an incel who hates women because you can't get laid. I will do this even if, and possibly especially if, I have reason to believe you're a homosexual man.
If you attempt to point out that these white knights are engaged in “Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks” or maybe “The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances,” you're wrong. See above where I pulled rank^Wstatus. I outrank you.
***
Anyway, my point is you are dealing with people who are deranged hypocritical sociopaths (possibly psychopaths too, but IANAPsychologist).
Your satire is a little weak, but I take your point.
And that's exactly what a reasonable CoC framework coupled with reasonable people tasked with executing/enforcing said CoC is supposed to address.
There are numerous ways that can go off the rails. At the same time, there are enough jackasses to require some sort of framework to deter that sort of behavior.
What would you suggest otherwise? Throwing up our hands and saying "this is too hard, we're closing down ${PROJECT}" or "screw you guys, I'm going home!"?
It's sad that this is even an issue, but the results from ignoring it can (and in some cases, have) been much, much worse.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by oakgrove on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:10PM (4 children)
What would you suggest otherwise? Throwing up our hands and saying "this is too hard, we're closing down ${PROJECT}" or "screw you guys, I'm going home!"?
How about, "Fuck this open source free software horse shit. I'll just use the proprietary analog and you can stick your little project and your political bullshit up your ass."
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:18PM (3 children)
What would you suggest otherwise? Throwing up our hands and saying "this is too hard, we're closing down ${PROJECT}" or "screw you guys, I'm going home!"?
How about, "Fuck this open source free software horse shit. I'll just use the proprietary analog and you can stick your little project and your political bullshit up your ass."
That addresses your involvement. Do you have any suggestions that are germane to the discussion, or are you just trolling?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by oakgrove on Tuesday May 09 2017, @08:21PM (2 children)
Are you stupid?
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 09 2017, @08:46PM (1 child)
You've answered my question. Thanks.
Now back under the bridge with you.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by oakgrove on Wednesday May 10 2017, @06:36AM
Now back under the bridge with you.
Catch phrases and clichés can't make for the fact that you've actually
answered my question.
Thanks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @08:57PM
Psychopaths tend to have higher IQs and better social skills than sociopaths. These people don't even make it to psychopath status.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:22PM
Sure, google-fu on cluster-b's reveals:
Variations are due to study sizes, estimates (aspd individuals are rarely diagnosed) and the fact that many of these diagnosed with one of these disorders will often present with comorbidity of others.
Emotional manipulation, pathological lying and psychological projection (victim playing) are the tell-tale signs of the dramatic personality disorders. At least 10% of the general population have one or more of these disorders and they are experts at the tools of their trade. We tell them to fuck off, we do not give them a set of rules by which they can frame innocent people. Direct communication is the best communication, do not let them triangulate. [wikipedia.org]
The ability to say "your code is shit" is a perfectly valid criticism after a few substandard patches. Managers must in fact be free to say this on open source projects.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday May 08 2017, @07:59PM (3 children)
Sadly, there are a number (usually vanishingly small but quite vociferous) of folks who are fucking assholes.
I wish that the number was vanishingly small.
Around here they all seem to post as AC, so there could be one or one million for all we know.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday May 08 2017, @08:04PM
Sadly, there are a number (usually vanishingly small but quite vociferous) of folks who are fucking assholes.
I wish that the number was vanishingly small.
Around here they all seem to post as AC, so there could be one or one million for all we know.
Given that this is a general discussion site, I don't really have an issue with that.
In a forum for discussion/furtherance of a specific software package(s), that's a different story. If you're not working towards making said project succeed and, in fact, are hindering progress, then you shouldn't be (either voluntarily or otherwise) involved in that forum.
At least that's how I see it.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @08:22PM
FYI: I for one have never fucked an asshole in my life and would never dream of puckering up for "DRM CoC" either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:06PM
> Around here they all seem to post as AC, so there could be one or one million for all we know.
Do they?
Seriously man, you are one of the minor assholes on this site.
And your snowflake responses to blunt criticism make your complaints about all the other assholes particularly ironic.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by melikamp on Monday May 08 2017, @08:52PM (2 children)
I think the parts you quoted are mostly reasonable. There is, however, a couple of clauses you omitted:
Emphasis mine. These are personally subjective (a comment is threatening as long as a single project member feels threatened), or relative to a community standard at best (a comment is threatening as long as a critical mass of contributors feels threatened). Unlike with sensible objective restrictions (like sex talk bans), there is no objective measure of these things, and there can't be any in principle. Absolutely any behavior can trigger a member being offended and/or threatened, paving a way for the arbitrary ostracism a la Garfield of Drupal. This opens up a truly golden trolling opportunity for any schmo who is willing to claim being offended by a project member they don't like. All they need to do is be persistent and look for like-minded individuals to keep up a stream of complaints legitimized by the CoC.
I can only wish lots of good luck to every project using Contributor Covenant: they will need it. They are pretty much asking to be trolled in the way I just described, and there is nothing they can do against these trolls, as everything will be legit and by the letter of the CoC.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday May 08 2017, @09:05PM (1 child)
I think the parts you quoted are mostly reasonable. There is, however, a couple of clauses you omitted:
Project maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful.
Emphasis mine. These are personally subjective (a comment is threatening as long as a single project member feels threatened), or relative to a community standard at best (a comment is threatening as long as a critical mass of contributors feels threatened). Unlike with sensible objective restrictions (like sex talk bans), there is no objective measure of these things, and there can't be any in principle. Absolutely any behavior can trigger a member being offended and/or threatened, paving a way for the arbitrary ostracism a la Garfield of Drupal. This opens up a truly golden trolling opportunity for any schmo who is willing to claim being offended by a project member they don't like. All they need to do is be persistent and look for like-minded individuals to keep up a stream of complaints legitimized by the CoC.
I can only wish lots of good luck to every project using Contributor Covenant: they will need it. They are pretty much asking to be trolled in the way I just described, and there is nothing they can do against these trolls, as everything will be legit and by the letter of the CoC.
I consciously didn't include that clause, as it opens a real can of worms. That's not to say I was trying to minimize the potential issues, I wasn't. Rather, I wanted to point up the fact that the general goals of this specific CoC (and most others) are pretty reasonable.
I did mention that making a CoC successful was dependent upon having reasonable people administering/enforcing such CoCs, and that there was the risk that some folks could hijack the process for their own ends.
You are quite correct that there are issues with proper execution. At the same time, given that there are some who simply will not treat others professionally, or at least with simple human respect, I'm not sure what else can be done.
If you have some alternative ideas to address the dickheads, I'd love to hear them.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 09 2017, @03:11AM
> making a CoC successful was dependent upon having reasonable people administering/enforcing such CoCs,
Fundamentally that is the basis of all governance. In that respect CoCs are no different from HOAs, professional organizations like the bar, or government.
Good governance takes dedication and work. Some people seem to think that its better that there be no governance. At best those people are just wishful thinkers, believing that some "invisible hand" will automagically produce good results - at worst, like the submitter, they are nihilists.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday May 09 2017, @01:21AM (6 children)
Seriously, if you need a CoC beyond "don't be a dick without good reason"*, you're focusing on the wrong things.
*) Being Linus Torvalds is a good reason.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday May 09 2017, @03:49AM (5 children)
Linus usually criticize on what people do, in code not who they are from what I read?
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday May 09 2017, @05:58AM (4 children)
Who you are is reflected in your code.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday May 09 2017, @06:23AM (3 children)
I think I'll not fully agree with that. Coding is something I do, I'm not my code. I can change if there's a improvement to be had.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:07AM (2 children)
Just as an artist is not his/her/its art. The art can evolve and change due to outside influence and experience. Just like the artist him-/her-/itself.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:28AM (1 child)
I think the art is what the code accomplish.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:39AM
Now we're really going meta :)
What I was trying to get at is that if you get bitched out for lousy code, it's probably easy to take it personally because it's a reflection on yourself. Whether the code is bad because of inexperience, laziness or downright incompetence, in many cases the criticism will not be perceived objectively regardless of how PC it was phrased. Offense isn't just given, it also has to be taken.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 09 2017, @12:06PM
Let's wait and see if the prohibition against "The use of sexualized ... imagery..." includes persons neither applying sexuality image enhancers like lipstick, eyeliner, mascara, and rouge, nor wearing brassieres or cleavage-revealing tops at our next technical conference.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday May 08 2017, @08:56PM (1 child)
Code of Snowflakes for implementing DRM which relies on security will be great. Hackers will have a feast because not enough decline of practice and actual code can be done.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @09:01PM
Unfortunately it's not the DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), you think it is. The DRM in this case is Direct Rendering Manager.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Monday May 08 2017, @08:59PM (3 children)
This was in the PR:
Small supplementary pull request. I didn't want anyone saying we snuck
this in in a the middle of a big pile of changes, so here is a clearly
separate pull request documenting the code of conduct introduced for
freedesktop.org and how it relates to dri-devel community.
In other words, they want their own lil safe space and Linus didn't give a shit because the code was right. He was the one that let it in as an independent pull request [iu.edu] that only included that intro [github.com]. So if it's an agenda on their part Linus is pretty fucking stupid to not see it given that it was its own PR and he never misses things even with massive patches. So you know he's aware of what it is. If he ends up being that stupid then maybe he shouldn't be a maintainer anymore. Except he's not stupid.
By the way I'm getting real tired of having to do my own research for topics because there's something obviously reactionary and fucky about a summary. Because people don't know how to be objective. Fuckin stawp, I legit love you guys.
Granted, easy for me to say that. I stopped caring about open source as much as I used to partly because of this stuff.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:08PM
By the way I'm getting real tired of having to do my own research for topics because there's something obviously reactionary and fucky about a summary.
Look who the submitter is.
Apparently the editors are big on "fool me once, shame on you, fool me over and over again, suck it up buttercup!"
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Monday May 08 2017, @10:14PM
> [...] having to do my own research for topics because there's something obviously reactionary and fucky about a summary.
The phoronix.com article has a link to the pull request (around "pull request, which can be found here").
(Score: 1) by oakgrove on Tuesday May 09 2017, @07:20PM
caring about open source as much as I used to partly because of this stuff.
You and me both. I used to be a huge supporter of free software monetarily and otherwise now I wouldn't spit on something gpl, bad, apache, or mit licensed if its asshole was on fire.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday May 08 2017, @10:42PM
Which DRM are they talking about again? Digital Restrictions Management?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2017, @10:58PM
I'm not too familiar with the kernel structure and the DRM within it. Are they an independent sub-function for which this CoC only applies to them, or did they put it on some central place with larger implications?
Off-hand, this news sounds to me like, "I put my Terms and Conditions on my Facebook page. Facebook accepted them!" If they want to adopt a CoC then that is their choice, and if they want to publish notice of that in any reasonable location (including the Kernel documentation) then that's fine, too.
If this is applying they have snuck a CoC into all of the Linux kernel development through some back-door channel... well, that's less than fine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 09 2017, @12:23AM
For consistency this documentation uses American English. [...]
Please conduct yourself in a respectful and civilised manner when interacting with community members on mailing lists, IRC, or bug trackers. The community represents the project as a whole, and abusive or bullying behaviour is not tolerated by the project.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by kaszz on Tuesday May 09 2017, @03:12AM
That thing with CoC seems to be a symptom of SJW entryism [soylentnews.org]. Bye bye Desktop.org?