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posted by n1 on Saturday May 20 2017, @08:23AM   Printer-friendly
from the news-met-with-glowing-reports dept.

India has approved the construction of ten indigenously designed pressurised heavy water reactors (PHWR). India approved the construction of ten 700 MWe units in a “significant decision to fast-track India’s domestic nuclear power program”.

The Cabinet’s announcement did not give any timeline or locations for the new plants, but said the project would result in a “significant augmentation” of the country’s nuclear generation capacity.

India has 6780 MWe of installed nuclear capacity from 22 operational reactors with another 6700 MWe expected to come on stream over the next five years, the cabinet noted. It said the ten new units would be a “fully homegrown initiative”, with likely manufacturing orders to Indian industry of about INR 700 billion ($11 billion).

China is to supply Argentina with two nuclear power reactors – one a Candu pressurised heavy water reactor (PHWR), the other a Hualong One pressurised water reactor (PWR). The contract was among 19 agreements signed yesterday in Beijing during a meeting of Chinese president Xi Jinping and Argentinean president Mauricio Macri.

Source: NextBigFuture.com


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @08:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @08:27AM (#512546)

    N/T

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by butthurt on Saturday May 20 2017, @08:49AM

    by butthurt (6141) on Saturday May 20 2017, @08:49AM (#512554) Journal
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:30AM (18 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:30AM (#512557)

    My first hope was India wouldn't build any more nukes.
    Yeah, long shot.

    My second hope was that if they were going to go nuke again that they would try a large-scale thorium plant that would CONSUME nuclear waste rather than produce more.

    Oh, well. Welcome to the mid-20th Century, India.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:43AM (#512560)

      Oh, well. Welcome to the mid-20th Century, India.

      NK is geo closer to India than it is to US. Pakistan even more so.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:48AM (9 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:48AM (#512564) Journal

      Welcome to the 19th Century [wikipedia.org], India.

      FTFY

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @01:11PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @01:11PM (#512603)

        Nope. In the 21st Century, only nitwits come back with "coal" as an argument.
        India gets even more sun than USA. [google.com]

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:36PM (#512618)

          Have you seen the pollution in an Indian city?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @03:33PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @03:33PM (#512624)

          Nope. In the 21st Century, only nitwits come back with "coal" as an argument.

          If by nitwits, you mean people who realize that a massive chunk of our energy does come from burned fossil fuels right now and passive energy collectors do not offer a viable replacement at present, then yes. The proper word for that is "realists".

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:11PM (3 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:11PM (#512731) Journal

          Nope. In the 21st Century, only nitwits come back with "coal" as an argument.

          By this definition, your "more sun than USA" India is the supreme nitwit.
          I assert the nitwit term is too mild.

          From the linked (for your convenience [wikipedia.org]):

          The Carmichael coal mine is a proposed thermal coal mine in the north of the Galilee Basin in Central Queensland, Australia. Mining is planned to be conducted by both open-cut and underground methods.[1] The mine is proposed by Adani Mining, a wholly owned subsidiary of India's Adani Group..

          The mine has drawn immense controversy about its claimed economic benefits,[5] its financial viability, plans for government subsidy and the damaging environmental impacts. Broadly, these have been described as its potential impact upon the Great Barrier Reef, groundwater at its site and its carbon emissions.[6] The emissions from burning the amount of coal expected to be produced from this one mine, whether sourced from it or elsewhere, would be "approximately 0.53-0.56% of the carbon budget that remains after 2015 to have a likely chance of not exceeding 2 degrees warming."
          ...
          The mine is planned to contain six open-cut pits and five underground mines.[2] The surface disturbance area is 27,892 hectares (68,923 acres).[10] The mine site covers an area of 44,700 hectares (110,456 acres), around 447 square kilometres (173 sq mi), and is about 50 kilometres (31 mi) long.[19] This is bigger than many capital cities. For example, if the mine site area is placed over Paris, it covers the central area of the city and stretches to its outer edges.
          ...
          Adani has applied for a water licence to extract up to 12.5 GL per year from the Belyando River for use at the Carmichael mine.[62] The mine will also use groundwater that flows to the surface during the process of “dewatering” the open cut pits and underground mines.

          According to the Supplementary Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) submitted by Adani, “maximum impacts in excess of 300m are predicted” for the local water table. Beyond the mine boundary, Adani’s groundwater model predicts water table levels to drop “typically between 20 and 50m” and “up to around 4m in the vicinity of the [Carmichael] river”.[63] Impacts on ground water were central to a case in the QLD Land Court, where Adani's expert witness defended inferences drawn from drilling data, against allegations that this was insufficient to determine risks of collapses underground that could impact groundwater systems
          ...
          Indigenous landholders mounted a challenge to Carmichael Mine, and called on the Queensland Government to refuse a mining lease to Adani Mining. In a major test of Australia's native title laws, the Wangan and Jagalingou people rejected the Indigenous Land Use Agreement with Adani. Adani then launched legal action (Adani Mining Pty Ltd and Another v Adrian Burragubba, Patrick Malone and Irene White on behalf of the Wangan and Jagalingou People) in the Native Title Tribunal in an attempt to enable the Queensland government to compulsorily acquire the land and push the mine ahead.

             

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 1) by butthurt on Saturday May 20 2017, @11:11PM (2 children)

            by butthurt (6141) on Saturday May 20 2017, @11:11PM (#512775) Journal

            It also says:

            Most of the exported coal is planned to be shipped to India.

            ...which was what I originally assumed was what you wanted us to note.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday May 21 2017, @12:07AM (1 child)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 21 2017, @12:07AM (#512794) Journal

              That too.

              My points:
              1. India is increasing their use of coal - the project is backed by Indian govt subsidies and they plan to use the majority of it.
              2. it is done with immediate environmental damage before even a mole of CO2 produced by burning that coal
              3. no matter where it is exported/used, the steam turbine it's still a 19 century technology even when improved by the use of newer materials.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:01AM

                by dry (223) on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:01AM (#512888) Journal

                3. no matter where it is exported/used, the steam turbine it's still a 19 century technology even when improved by the use of newer materials.

                The steam turbine is great technology. The problem is how the steam is generated, nuclear, a huge mirror and the Sun, burning natural gas and methane, burning coal.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:27PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:27PM (#512617)

        Welcome to the 19th Century, India.

        Old technology is not necessarily worthless or inferior. We still regularly use technologies discovered in ancient times.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:42PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:42PM (#512760) Journal

          Read the link. In this case, old technology results in a man-made disaster.
          True, it isn't the technology that is directly responsible, but the price one needs to pay to run that technology.
          Even more so when the mantra is "privatize profits, socialize costs".

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by butthurt on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:44AM (3 children)

      by butthurt (6141) on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:44AM (#512576) Journal

      [...] thorium plant that would CONSUME nuclear waste rather than produce more.

      Thorium doesn't magically fission without fission products. India has a lot of thorium, and is working on a reactor that will use it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_heavy-water_reactor [wikipedia.org]

      The plan includes

      Three stream reprocessing of fuel containing Pu, Th and U.

      -- https://www.iaea.org/NuclearPower/Downloadable/aris/2013/AHWR.pdf [iaea.org]

      • (Score: 2) by WalksOnDirt on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:58PM (2 children)

        by WalksOnDirt (5854) on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:58PM (#512658) Journal

        Thorium doesn't magically fission without fission products. India has a lot of thorium, and is working on a reactor that will use it.

        The fission products are not a big problem. The transactinides (which are not fission products) sort of are. Those are what thorium reactors are designed to greatly reduce.

        Unfortunately, I'm not confident that India's approach to thorium is practical. LFTRs are not ready to build production plants either; they need more research.

        • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Saturday May 20 2017, @11:06PM (1 child)

          by butthurt (6141) on Saturday May 20 2017, @11:06PM (#512773) Journal

          I don't think transactinides are a problem, because they are formed in small amounts and have short half-lives:

          Transactinides are radioactive and have only been obtained synthetically in laboratories. None of these elements has ever been collected in a macroscopic sample.

          [...]

          Due to their short half-lives (for example, the most stable isotope of rutherfordium has a half-life of 11 minutes, and half-lives decrease gradually going to the right of the group) and the low yield of the nuclear reactions that produce them, new methods have had to be created to determine their gas-phase and solution chemistry based on very small samples of a few atoms each.

          -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactinide_element [wikipedia.org]

          By "fission products" I meant elements such as iodine, caesium, strontium, technetium and xenon. If released to the environment, they can be a problem because they're radioactive and because some can bioaccumulate. If left in a reactor, some can be a problem because they absorb neutrons.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_poison [wikipedia.org]

          As a fertile material thorium is similar to 238
          U, the major part of natural and depleted uranium.

          -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle#Nuclear_fuel [wikipedia.org]

          I'm guessing what you meant instead of transactinides was transuranic elements. According to the page I linked just above, the transuranic elements associated with a thorium fuel cycle have shorter half-lives than those from a uranium fuel cycle. However, that glosses over the fact that the uranium-233 produced has a half-life of ~159,000 years; and the uranium-232, ~69 years (pedantically, uranium is not transuranic).

          • (Score: 2) by WalksOnDirt on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:26AM

            by WalksOnDirt (5854) on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:26AM (#512894) Journal

            I'm guessing what you meant instead of transactinides was transuranic elements.

            You're right.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:00PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:00PM (#512648) Journal

      My first hope was India wouldn't build any more nukes.

      Why? India's power mix is not even close to the top of their list of problems. Helping improve the lives of a billion is. While there should be some concern over whether India will regulate these plants well, it remains that something like these plants is necessary for India to have.

      Oh, well. Welcome to the mid-20th Century, India.

      Nobody has figured out a better way to do fission (or fusion) yet. So it is 21st Century tech as well.

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday May 21 2017, @01:01PM (1 child)

      by driverless (4770) on Sunday May 21 2017, @01:01PM (#512999)

      India has a decades-long track record of going nowhere fast with its reactors. Note how the OP carefully pointed out that:

      did not give any timeline or locations for the new plants

      So if you're worried about proliferation or whatnot, don't.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 21 2017, @09:22PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 21 2017, @09:22PM (#513162)

        Yeah. At about this point in a thread about nukes, I like to note that it takes around a decade from breaking ground until a nuke produces its first energy.

        Meanwhile, a neighborhood can be solarized in a week.

        proliferation

        The problems that I envision are a lot more fundamental.
        First, you have a for-profit operation making management decisions about operation/maintenance (e.g. San Onofre, Savannah River).
        Next, you have Homer Simpson at the controls (e.g. Three Mile Island).
        Underlying this, you have a design/construction done by more for-profit operations with all the corner-cutting that that brings.

        ...and decisions about where a plant will be located so often seem to completely ignore Mother Nature.
        Diablo Canyon was built on the convergence of multiple fault lines. D'oh.
        Not only did they build Fukushima on the Ring of Fire, they put it on the Pacific-facing coast of the island where a tsunami could^W did clobber it. D'oh.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:33AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:33AM (#512558)

    My first hope was that India wouldn't build any more nukes.
    Yeah, long shot.

    My second hope was that if they were going to go nuke again that they would try a large-scale THORIUM plant that would CONSUME nuclear waste rather than produce more.

    Oh, well. Welcome to the mid-20th Century, India.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:41AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:41AM (#512559) Journal

      With the prev two, these make 4 ways already! :)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by cafebabe on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:46AM (2 children)

    by cafebabe (894) on Saturday May 20 2017, @09:46AM (#512563) Journal

    Good morning. Infosys Nuclear Power Technical Support. How may I help you?

    Have you tried turning it off and on again?

    --
    1702845791×2
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Aiwendil on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:28AM

    by Aiwendil (531) on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:28AM (#512574) Journal

    * Hualong One. It is a merge of the ACP1000 and ACPR1000 designs, it got a post-fukushima update. The ACP and ACPR are further developments of the french 900MW reactor (the kind the french has 34 of, also running in S.Korea, S.Africa and China)

    * India PHWR - a locally designed derivate of the CANDU. PHWR is the main reactor type in India, 700MWe is their neweset model. Not to be confused with the AHWR. Shares lots of features (incl fuel req) and safety with CANDU, 765 days as longest stretch online.

    * CANDU - THE canadian reactor, latest revisions of 6e (Qinshan as reference) works with thorium as well, 894 days as longest stretch online (only AGR has higher), major producer of medical and industrial isotopes, currently running in Canada, India, China, S.Korea, Argentina, Romania and Pakistan.

    * CANDU & India PHWR. - Heavy water moderated, surrounded by double low pressure water tanks (results in that firetrucks can keep them cooled), fuel is natural uranium, can run on waste from light water reactors (DUPIC), with minor modifications can run on thorium, on-line refuelling, high breed ratio (0.6), can be used to produce pretty much any isotope you want, designed for black starts and grid isolation, overheating results in reactor shutting itself down (too tight margin for neutrons, misalignment of pressure tubes makes it sub-critical)

    And military plutonium production is dealt with by IAEA safeguards - which are a requirement to buy fuel internationally.

  • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday May 20 2017, @12:51PM (2 children)

    by kaszz (4211) on Saturday May 20 2017, @12:51PM (#512601) Journal

    Hopefully they will drop this "high pressure water" thing and use liquid metal or salts instead. Which should avoid heavy ecosystem contamination issues and explosive bursts of radioactive substances like in Chernobyl.

    • (Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday May 21 2017, @07:45PM (1 child)

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 21 2017, @07:45PM (#513131) Journal

      ...and replace it with a heat exchanger that uses water under pressure to extract the heat from the molten metal (Na/K eutectic) primary cooling loop :-) What could possibly go wrong [wikipedia.org]? Apparently the Na itself likes to absorb neutrons and becomes highly radioactive as a result.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday May 21 2017, @11:12PM

        by kaszz (4211) on Sunday May 21 2017, @11:12PM (#513187) Journal

        Use molten lead? the point is that water under high pressure combined with radioactivity is a bad idea. Fukushima Daiichi is an example of this. Anyway the Monju reactor site seems plagued with a negligent, lying and clumsy management.

        This says it all:

        On 29 May 2013, the NRA announced that JAEA was prohibited from restarting the fast-breeder reactor, describing the safety culture at the plant as "deteriorated"

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