from the dogs-have-family-cats-have-staff dept.
People who live with cats like to joke about how these small fuzzy creatures are still wild, basically training us rather than the other way around. Now a new genetic study of ancient cat DNA reveals that we are basically right. Cats were not domesticated in the same way dogs, cows, pigs, and goats were. They have lived among us, but it wasn't until very recently that we began to change them.
Unlike dogs, whose bodies and temperaments have transformed radically during the roughly 30,000 years we've lived with them, domestic cats are almost identical to their wild counterparts—physically and genetically. House cats also show none of the typical signs of animal domestication, such as infantilization of facial features, decreased tooth size, and docility. Wildcats are neither social nor hierarchical, which also makes them hard to integrate into human communities.
Yet it's impossible to deny that cats are tame. We know that humans have lived with cats for at least 10,000 years—there's a 9,500-year-old grave in Cyprus with a cat buried alongside its human, and ancient Egyptian art has a popular motif showing house cats eating fish under chairs. Today, cats still share our homes and food, and for thousands of years they have worked alongside farmers and sailors to eradicate vermin. If we haven't domesticated cats, what exactly have we done to them?
Related:
Ancient Egyptians may have given cats the personality to conquer the world
The palaeogenetics of cat dispersal in the ancient world
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday June 22 2017, @01:15AM
Root login + cat = administrator suffering ;-)
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday June 22 2017, @01:24AM (12 children)
Cats were tolerated for 10,000 years. They wandered cities like Pigeons.
The've only been intentionally bread and kept in households for maybe a thousand years.
And, like dogs, once you start breeding your own cats the wild ones are pretty much pushed out.
Rats and Pigeons lived among people for far longer. Neither has been domesticated.
Maybe instead of trying to eradicate them we should domesticate them, and send them to push out their wild brethren.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @01:45AM (3 children)
You MONSTER, frojack! Breading and deep-frying pussies? Have you no humanity?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:33AM (1 child)
True, it's best if you just grab them. They let you do that, btw.
Then nuzzle them and give them treats. :)
*sigh* cute little fuzzballs. I wish i had the resources to get another one for the house (litter, food, mostly vet). My roommate is depressed and needs one.
Maybe if we just gave the neighborhood strays some food. I know that's not very responsible....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:11PM
You could get the neighborhood strays fixed, e.g. TNR, http://fixnation.org/about-tnr/feral-cat-programs/ [fixnation.org]. Then you wouldn't have to feel guilty about feeding them :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:29AM
I defend frojack's right to entertain his pussy of choice however the pussy enjoys it
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:02AM (3 children)
Domestication has nothing to do with living with, nor modifying whatever humans domesticate. Domestication is a kind of contract entered between humans and the domesticated species for the benefit of both.
Cattle for instance find it beneficial to live under the protection of humans: even if individual cow or sheep are slaughtered, they are more successful as a species than if they had to fend for themselves alone.
Cats and dogs let themselves be domesticated for a slightly different reason: as predators, wolves and wild cats didn't need protection. But they found it easier to get food from us (or find food on our premises) if they worked for us. But wolves, as pack animals, took a different domestication route from cats: they found it more successful to fully submit to us and shed the wild wolf characteristics that scare us.
Cats on the other hand are not pack animals, nor have they ever frightened humans as a species. So humans could pretty much strike a business deal with them without them having to change much. Even tame house cats who spend their lives indoors have the ability to turn feral and revert to a fully independent life if they're abandoned.
As for the original business deal, for many cats and dogs, the job description has changed: they're not farm helpers anymore, they've become companions for our amusement. They don't even have to work anymore! But essentially they provide a service to us and we feed them in return.
That's what domestication is: a business relationship. The changes that have occurred in the domesticated species are strictly a result of whatever the species had to do to make this business relationship as successful as possible. Cats simply didn't have to change much.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:40AM
So what you're saying is that if we implement the other AC's proposal for a system of voluntary agreement, in order to free ourselves from dependence on elected men (who are not angels), so that we no longer require a warlord with his violently imposed monopoly, that might be a framework for maybe other inter-species arrangements?
Yet I wonder. How can one create a well-defined contract with no common language or even mode of thought? It seems to work with cats, so there must be a way.
The Encyclopedia Galactica might boil down to a trade manual hinged on the assumption that intelligent species would want to contact each other. Even an exchange of culture would constitute a mutually beneficial trade.
(Score: 3, Informative) by driverless on Thursday June 22 2017, @07:59AM
Not just food, but protection and care in general. The average life expectancy of a feral cat is 3 years. For domestics, 12-14 years is more the norm.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:53PM
Tell that to lions.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2, Insightful) by GDX on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:10AM (2 children)
Pigeons have been domesticated for at least 5000 years, cats also have been intentionally bread and kept for more than 5000 years, one clear example is the "ship's cat". Originally the animal are domesticated as a tool or as a food, the domestication as a pet is a very recent phenomenon, the partial domestication of cats is more due to be used for only one use (vermin control) and to it's small size.
(Score: 5, Funny) by aristarchus on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:31AM (1 child)
OK, this intentional cat breading has to stop! Right now, peoples! The word is "breed", doing it, if you are not a cat, is "breeding". Past perfect tense is "bred", get that? No "a" in "bred". Yes, it sounds the same, but a single extra vowel changes everything. You can loose the hole point of you're post if you kant spel correntically.
(Score: 5, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:16AM
I thought he was talking about the far east, breading cat with rice flour before deep frying.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408365/
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:14AM
Wild cats (bobcats) live all over Florida - not like pigeons or rats, bobcats have big territories, but they're more challenged by habitat destruction than domestic cats.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408365/
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 22 2017, @01:55AM (14 children)
The correct question is: what exactly have they done to(/for) us?
Except for eradicating vermin and giving us allergies and toxoplasmosis and fur balls and fluffy kittens and memes and rainbows-in-looping-videoclips?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Snotnose on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:07AM (4 children)
They sit in my lap and purr. They hop into bed with no expectation of sexual relations.
Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. But I live in an apartment and IMHO apartment living doesn't work with dogs.
I came. I saw. I forgot why I came.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:31AM
Urban living in general isn't great for most breeds of dog. There are some smaller dogs that don't need as much space that can tolerate it, but if you've got a small space, cats tolerate it a lot better. You can even put a wheel for them to run around in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsq-8DUTYHg [youtube.com]
Perhaps install a generator in there and use it to generate power.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:36AM
TMI! TMI! I did not need to know this!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:42AM
Bring on the catgirls.
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Thursday June 22 2017, @06:19AM
I swear that the reaction of my cat to scratching it gently behind the ears is borderline orgasmic:
- at first, it turns the head to have other angles and other zones benefiting from the sensation as well. "There... Yeesss.... And here too... Don't stop, don't you dare to stop, I'm now the subject of your full and undivided attention!... Now, under the chin please... Mmmm, sooo gooood"
- then the beast turns up belly up; of course is in invitation to gently stroke her chest and belly. "Just use the entire surface of the fingers, don't... I. Said. Don't. Tickle. Me. Or I'll bite you harder next time. This time is only the warning, see I bite you gently as the warning (then lick one or twice where I bitten you), but I'll get serious if you don't stop the tickle"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 4, Insightful) by legont on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:14AM (1 child)
The right question is still different - who domesticated whom. The answer is Toxoplasma gondii domesticated both - humans and cats http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/18/crazy-cat-love-caused-by-parasitic-infection/ [time.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday June 22 2017, @06:30AM
I like my cat, but believe me, not the smell of cat urine. From the liked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:29AM
The vermin is a rather big deal, especially in the past when our ability to kill vermin wasn't as well developed. Keeping vermin out of the granaries was a literal matter of life and death.
These days, cats are mostly for companionship, but if you make a point of feeding your cat first thing in the morning, you'll probably find that the days of oversleeping are a thing of the past. Cats are just not really built for much other than hunting vermin and being snuggled. There's also less variation in size and shape than with dogs. So, even if you do bother to train a cat to do things, you're going to have a much more limited range of things that you could have a cat do.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:03AM (3 children)
So apart from eradicating vermin and giving us allergies and toxoplasmosis and fur balls and fluffy kittens and memes and rainbows-in-looping-videoclips what have the Roman... uhh, cats ever done for us?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:12AM (1 child)
(That's the proper form, indeed)
Ummm.... gave us hours of good time chasing a red laser spot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:20AM
Mine is currently keeping my feet warm :-).
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Thursday June 22 2017, @11:38PM
I know...but, really.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:57PM
Obvious: They domesticated us.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday June 22 2017, @11:41PM
Kittens between boobies [google.com]
They're are awfully cute, and for some reason, generate a large number of these images.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:07AM (4 children)
Cats don't need domesticating. They're already perfectly suited to what people want cats for.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:20AM (3 children)
What strikes me as surprising is the relatively small number of domestic cat breeds, especially when you get away from the professionally bred varieties into the "mutts." There are dozens of "mutt" dog types, but only a handful of common alley cat types: black, grey, tabby, maine coon...
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408365/
(Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:05AM (1 child)
...stew, casserole, gumbo...
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:55PM
He said breed not bread.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:32PM
Not really, most of those dog breeds were bred to do one job or another. You need a small dog for some things and a larger one for others. Trying to have a small dog pulling a sled isn't going to work out, but having a large one would work out much better.
When it comes to cats though, most of it is esthetic. Cats do more or less the same things the world over, catch vermin and serve as a fluff ball to pet. The main differences are looks and size. Although, there are breeds that are hypoallergenic or at least allergy friendly.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:39AM (6 children)
One behavioural trait emerged that differentiates domestic cats from wild: sociability. Basically, a willingness to live in colonies (this is observable among strays as well) and to accept people as members of their colonies.
That can be a tiny, tiny genetic shift. And why bother with the rest, since they're such desirably efficient mesopredators?
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:40AM (5 children)
Lions have prides.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:58AM (3 children)
True, but lions are not merely a different species, but a different genus entirely. The topic under discussion is specifically the domestic cat.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:34AM (2 children)
Umm... Did you read the post to which I replied? They were quite specific about the difference being that wild cats not exhibiting that behavior. Lions are cats. They form prides. If lions are not cats, National Geographic is a dirty rotten liar.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:07PM (1 child)
No, they're not talking about lions, they're talking about wildcats, or Felis Silvestris [wikipedia.org], the wild animal that our housecats (Felis Catus) descend from. Lions are only very remotely related to housecats; they're not even the same genus or subfamily, they're in the panther genus along with tigers. Like tigers, lions don't even have slitted pupils like housecats do, they have round pupils like humans. If you want to compare housecats with other wild animals besides its closest ancestor, you need to stick with other cats in the "Felinae" subfamily at least: pumas, bobcats/lynx, servals, ocelots, etc. The "Pantherinae" subfamily has all the big cats (lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars) and those are about as closely related to housecats as we are to orangutans.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:05PM
Them bastards should calling them cats, then.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 1) by Farmer Tim on Thursday June 22 2017, @10:17PM
Came for the news, stayed for the soap opera.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:50AM (9 children)
I don't know what you've done to them, but I've mostly shot them. And not just the feral ones (though there's an endless supply of those) -- I also get to shoot the ones that lived in a house until last week when their owner got tired of them, and lacking the decency to handle their own problems, dropped them off on some county road to roam wild and free.
Ever notice how you don't see drop-off dogs wandering around? (No hyperbole -- I shoot maybe 3 or 4 cats a year, probably 2/3 feral, 1/3 drop-offs -- but I've never had to shoot a dog of any sort.) Maybe it's because dogs are actually domesticated, and just don't survive in the wild long enough to notice; on the other hand, maybe it's because "dog people" are actual people, and therefore grasp the responsibility of dealing with their own animals when the time comes to put them down, whereas "cat people" are slimy little shits, and therefore dump their animals in the woods to starve or get shot.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @04:55AM (3 children)
You sick piece of subhuman waste, I hope you get cancer and that it causes you the tortures of the damned.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:58AM (2 children)
Cat person: probably drops off cats in the woods, wishes torturous hell-cancer on humans. Seems my theory checks out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:00PM (1 child)
While I understand that there are times when wild animal populations must be culled you do come off as a sick motherfucker. Especially if they are domesticated cats you should trap them and take them to the local shelter. At the very least they won't die in as much agony and fear when you can't make a clean shot.
From your phrasing it sounds like you enjoy it, so yes you probably are a sick person getting jollies through physical violence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @01:12AM
You know, given the choice between a gutshot cat's agony and fear, or my chickens' agony and fear when an unshot cat takes one of them, I'd go with the cat. But I do my sick motherfuckery best to kill cleanly, and I do have a pretty good record of achieving it. (For whatever an internet boast is worth.)
I do wonder how a post so critical of those who drop off their unwanted cats "to starve or be shot" suggests that I enjoy it (surely I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone and miss my chance to shoot even more confused, abandoned drop-offs), but I'm sure that just shows I really like slimy shit.
But you know... What the fuck, I'll be honest here. I do enjoy it -- I take the same pride as anyone in a shot well made, whether the target is steel, paper, or flesh, and I take satisfaction in having made the world a little safer for the animals under my protection. Taking the life of an animal, even a cat, doesn't contribute any enjoyment, but it doesn't negate the enjoyable aspects, either. If there's one thing about shooting a drop-off that does bring me down a bit, it's knowing I'll never get to sock the damned owner one.
But of course, I'm the sick motherfucker, not the guy who drops Fluffy in a ditch somewhere. My desire to punch that fine specimen of humanity only confirms what a horrible sadist I am.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:02AM (2 children)
Where I am dogs are the bigger problem. Large, mobile, aggressive, and strays almost immediately form packs. They're sheer hell for livestock.
I shoot them on sight, on my property. Unless they identifiably belong to someone (generally from next door) in which case I bill them for damages. And let the sheriff's office know.
Cats, not so much. Maybe because the climate doesn't suit them, and the owls are easily large enough to pick them off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @03:36PM
Wild cats are mostly a problem for birds and rodents. And they can be a huge problem in some parts of the country.
But, you're right about the dogs, we have a couple packs of them roaming around one of our parks and it's a minor miracle that nobody's been mauled. It's the strangest wolf pack you've ever seen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @07:09PM
My wife grew up in rural Eastern Minnesota, Dakotas birder. Every so often, word would go out from the County Sheriff to keep your dogs leashed, because they'd be shooting strays on sight: the feral pack had gotten too big and aggressive, again. Perhaps your sheriff's office should be offering similar service. Give the over supplied tactical squad something to do.
(Score: 3, Funny) by tangomargarine on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:03PM (1 child)
So you're complaining that cats are too good at survival?
"Had to"
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @05:20PM
The dog didn't shoot first -- Han
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Bobs on Thursday June 22 2017, @10:30AM
We didn't domesticate cats. They domesticated humans.
Humans provide them with food, shelter, medical care and attention upon demand.
They get what they, want, when they want it from humans.
Cited traits of domestication: "infantilization of facial features, decreased tooth size, and docility." All these changes have been occurring to humans over the last 10,000 years, not to cats.
Douglas Adams just needed to move up a level on the food chain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:18PM (2 children)
They only pretend to be domesticated because we give them tuna.
As I tell my kids, the only reason cats don't eat you is because you're too big.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 22 2017, @02:24PM (1 child)
"As I tell my kids, the only reason cats don't eat you is because you're too big."
That's only partly true. Tell the kids to keep moving from time to time.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/woman-body-gnawed-eaten-cats-article-1.1426573 [nydailynews.com]
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 3, Funny) by nitehawk214 on Thursday June 22 2017, @06:22PM
Londo: I feel like I am being nibbled to death by, what are those Earth creatures, webbed feet go quack quack?
Vir: Cats
Londo: Yes, I am being nibbled to death by cats.
RIP Stephen Furst
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:00PM
Cats were worshipped as gods in ancient Egypt.
They haven't forgotten.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.