The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is reporting that Albert DeMagnus, the 74-year old founder and CEO of Computer Management Services, Inc. was stabbed to death during a home invasion.
When Deputies responded to the home at approximately 2:30 a.m., they found DeMangus with a stab wound. He was taken to Piedmont Fayette Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
The homeowner’s wife told authorities three men demanded cash and jewelry before taking the victim’s gray Lexus and leaving the scene. That’s when she called 911.
Deputies spotted the Lexus near the scene of the home invasion, Babb said. The stolen car crashed in the area of Jimmie Mayfield Boulevard and Bradley Drive and two men ran, he said. Deputies and Fayetteville police officers found located both men.
Jeffrey Lee Wallace, 22, of Atlanta, and Kavion Wyzeenski Tookes, 21, of Decatur, were both arrested and being held Friday night at the Fayette County jail.
One suspect remains at large.
DeMagnus' firm, Computer Management Services, Inc. (CMS) is an Information Technology (IT) augmentation firm that provides IT services to Fortune 500 Companies, the Federal Government, and State and Local Agencies.
Related Stories
An interesting follow-up on the SN story "CEO of Computer Management Services Inc. Murdered During Home Invasion":
After the fleeing suspects crashed and ran into the woods, police set up a perimeter with road checkpoints.
Soon, a Lyft driver approached a checkpoint and told police she was picking up a passenger nearby.
"This may be one of our suspects trying to leave the scene," Fayette County Sheriff Barry Babb thought of the person being picked up. So Babb and three officers got into his car, which happened to be identical to the Lyft driver's. They got the location of the suspect from the Lyft driver and simply drove to the suspect, posing as his ride.
"The subject walked all the way up, was about to open the door and get in our vehicle, when we exited and identified ourself" said Sheriff Babb. The suspect fled and got about 100 yards into the woods before being taken into custody. "That was something that was unique for us," Babb said, "a first time for us."
Link: http://www.myajc.com/news/police-use-lyft-trojan-horse-find-murder-suspect/vyciTzxxuGxsOhsWgDzcEI/
Note: Link is paywalled, but allows four articles to be read before paying.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:18PM (59 children)
Two or three loads of OO buck would have made all the difference.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aiwarrior on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:35PM (48 children)
What an asinine mindset.
If the victim had reached for this hard-on shotgun of yours maybe the villains would have reached for their own, and with the shotty spread the wife would also have died in the process.
Now, I will tell you what is the best way to save what is most precious, lives: Give the fuckers whatever they want and hunt them down on your terms. Here you have discretion on the application of violence if your sociopathy so inclines you. They were caught after all.
Now you may say: "ah but what if giving the monies was not enough and they were just murderous villains? Wouldn't the 12 gauge help?" Well against 3 men, good luck on not getting everybody killed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:48PM (1 child)
You mean I'm not Clint Eastwood? :(
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @05:18PM
It would be really nice to have as script, and stuntmen, and know you are going to win no matter what insanely stupid action you take.
Anybody seen John Wick 2? ;)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:58PM (24 children)
"What an asinine mindset.
If the victim had reached for this hard-on shotgun of yours maybe the villains would have reached for their own, and with the shotty spread the wife would also have died in the process."
.
.
If the perps had a shotgun they wouldn't have stabbed the guy.
If you weren't an idiot this would have occurred to you.
Any expert on home defense knows a shotgun is the best tool for the job. Just because you're an idiotic clueless knee-jerk liberal doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to conform to your childlike worldview. So take your bullshit opinion and shove it up your ass, little boy.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday June 24 2017, @09:23PM (23 children)
+Informative?
Ah, I understand now! Shooting must so common in USoA that nobody is alerted by a gun shot - burglars are likely to carry and use one, no need to care for silence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @12:17AM (21 children)
"Shooting must so common in USoA that nobody is alerted by a gun shot"
.
.
You obviously don't understand the sort of scum who commit these crimes. They aren't going to worry about making noise or stealth. They STOLE the victim's car and proceeded to drive it like idiots, which led to them getting caught. And you actually believe they would have been concerned about the noise from a shotgun ?
Your post makes it sound like you think you know better than other people. I promise you that is not true.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Sunday June 25 2017, @12:27AM (20 children)
(somebody just loves to state the obvious)
On the contrary, I'm trying to understand how US got so fucked. It's alien to me, doesn't make sense at all. And I'm not alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:21AM (15 children)
If I may?
I'm American but I've probably been in, or near, your country. There's a small chance you were grateful I was there - but probably not if you're online and on Soylent News. That means you're probably not brown, in the sub-Saharan, and white. It also means, well, you're probably not an American.
You're right. You do not understand. Would you like to, or are you bloviating? I will assume it is the former.
The US is just like every other country, in that it has people in it. Unlike many, it has people across a whole swath of the people-spectrum. In this country, they come in all colors, walks of life, and religions.
And, frankly, they're fucking insane. No, I'm not kidding. A good half of my country is retarded. I'd probably put at about 70% of them being straight up idiots. I don't think you understand.
For whatever reason, we're not that bright. We will fucking stomp your face into the curb, and giggle while we steal your car and rape your cat. That number is probably only like 1% - probably... We've got about 1% of our idiots in prison - sometimes, I think that might not actually be enough.
See, we elected Trump. Our other option was Clinton. We have protests in the street, where they declare Trump is Hitler, and set shit on fire. And a bunch of angry right-wingers, some of who are racists, go over there and punch them in the face. To be fair, it was the left that threw the first punch - but you have to go back a bit. See, they did it on television, live.
They're fucking idiots. I don't know what else to tell you.
Chances are, you live in a country with a fairly heterogeneous population. We don't have that. We don't even have the ability to agree on anything. We don't talk. We yell. We're fat, loud, and stupid.
I am sincerely sorry but you simply don't understand.
Here's the thing, we're proud of it. Fuck with us, we''ll stomp your face into the curb. We're America, we'll do what the fuck we want. There's really not a whole lot you can do to stop us. Yeah... We've probably got active duty military right there in your country. There's a really good chance of that. If not, we've got a carrier group that can be there in three days. Sit down, shut up, and watch. We're gonna go straight retarded.
It's gonna be spectacular. Sorry, we may ruin the planet, but that's not really my fault.
And the people who would break into your home, kill you, and steal your car? They are WORSE than that.
Now do you get it?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday June 25 2017, @02:00AM (14 children)
No.
That's the bit I don't understand.
1. if you are truly right (and they are true idiots), how come their concentration is higher than in other parts of the civilized world?
2. if you were speaking metaphorically and they only behave like idiots (but otherwise they are not intellectually disabled), how the sane population abandoned them and let them slide into this state? Where was the society (in the "living in common and acting as a community" sense of social) and what was it doing in this time?
(the rest of your post just states behaviours and no explanations)
Such cases of unhinged people happens from time to time in other parts of the world too.
However, most of us understand that's part of the risk of living in this world and do not try to extract principles from anecdotes, only the fight between ourselves over those "principles" ("faith" would be a more appropriate term than "principle")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @02:47AM (6 children)
We are insane and idiotic.
We get mad if a State does something like put up cameras to watch for uninsured cars. At the same time, we fucking hate criminals. Except, we're all kinda criminals - we all break the law, on a regular basis. Well, probably not all - but I bet the vast, vast majority do.
Why? My guess is it's a sense of entitlement mixed with a whole lot of differing cultural values that makes us have issues identifying with one another, except in times of strife - and maybe not even then.
The US is fairly unique in its makeup and liberties.
I guess, when you throw a ball - it takes the path it takes because it has no other choice. It's just physics.
In this case, when you smash a bunch of disparate groups together, give them a variety of liberties, and then mix them up in individual fiefdoms that are known as States, you get this.
If I knew how to describe it better, I'd probably have a solution. I don't know, we've batshit insane. We are a collective bunch of morons, armed to the teeth, independent(ish), petty, aggressive, and insane.
We've kinda been like this since day one, actually. This is not exactly something new.
Here.... The Marines are older than our country. Nov. 10, 1775, we formed in Tun's Tavern, PA. Now, eventually some pirates in the Middle East took some of our countrymen hostage. They sent these Marines over there to kick there ass - which they did. Then, because it was such a success, we had a president (against the law - and using stolen budget monies) go back over there and kick their ass a second time. Now, they hadn't done anything new - we'd already recovered the hostages and kicked their ass. But, we went back and did it again.
This was pretty much our first action as a nation state, after the Revolutionary War.
We have never been sane. We have never been civil. We have never been all that bright. We have, on the other hand, had a whole lot of drive and motivation.
Take that, mix in rich and poor, mix in all the faiths, mix in all the colors, and then throw in drugs, alcohol, and firearms. You should probably throw in fast cars, loose women, and dynamite - we kinda like to party.
And that's how you get America. It's broken. It's not right. It is what it is.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:31AM (5 children)
Thanks. At least that's something that should cut my appetite to understand you (all): in a chaotic system, explanations aren't possible (if there's a pattern at all, only statistics may help).
Pedantic, I know, but... motivation implies purpose and drive implies destination.
Perhaps "frenzy and amok" fit better your description.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:42AM (4 children)
Oh, no... We have a purpose and drive. We have it in spades. However, we are all running in different directions. It's like a mad house full of meth addicts. Mix the movie, One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest with the movie Spun, throw in some Drug Store Cowboy and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - and that's the more sane half. Like 30% of us are on some sort of mental health related prescription. We do more drugs, legal and illegal, than the rest of the world - in some case, more than the rest of the world combined.
Yeah... And we drink quite a bit, but we don't hold that record. Also, we have guns and income disparity. We have glorified gang culture. We have crazy religious bastards. We have fucking televangelists that are insanely wealthy. We have Trump as our president. Also, we have a huge fucking military. We are kinda idiots and certainly not rational.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @11:34PM (3 children)
You don't speak for anyone in the US but yourself.
And you don't do a very good job of doing that.
I KNEW you were stoned when I read the bullshit you wrote earlier.
If you think the US is such a fucked up place, get the fuck out, we don't need you. I expect your ex-wife could tell us a lot of stories about your intoxicated ravings and your propensity to behave violently when you think you can get away wth it. No wonder she left you.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @11:40PM (2 children)
Nice try. Unlike you, I can leave. Unlike you, I am welcomed elsewhere.
Your silly biases are also wrong. I am never violent with her and it was I who filed for divorce. Sheesh. Do you get all your views from tabloids?
I would also like to remind the viewing audience that, unlike you, I actually served this country. You're welcome.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:40AM (1 child)
"Nice try. Unlike you, I can leave. Unlike you, I am welcomed elsewhere."
You don't know a damned thing about me, you stupid sack of shit.
But I know something about you. I know you have something wrong with you that makes you think it is ok to insult your fellow Americans, when you don't
even know 99.9% of the American public, so you cannot speak with authority about what Americans are or are not.
You're just a miserable malcontent dope smoker living in the woods, and you're bitter because you're alone. The truth hurts, doesn't it, asshole.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:33PM
You poor, poor AC. I feel sorry for you. Is there something I can do to make you feel better about yourself?
I'll try - you can take from this what you want.
I have a lovely girlfriend, a wonderful group of friends, and a large variety of activities that keep me engaged and happy.
And yes, of course I can insult my fellow citizens. It's absolutely acceptable to do so - in fact, I have a right to do so. You appear to be in the 70% that I quoted. You are rapidly working your way to the 30% that I quoted. Those are unfortunate places to be but, more often than not, people put themselves into those categories. I don't know why you do so - it's not hard to be reasonably intelligent and to be willing to discuss things in a reasonable tone.
And, unlike you, I've traveled - extensively. I've been in your State - multiple times. There's a very, very small chance that I've never been in your State (there's only one that I've not been to and you don't live there). The rest, I've been to more than once - and spent some time there, in the vast majority of them. I may even know your State better than you do.
So, yes... Yes, I know Americans. They're lovely people, they're just not that bright and not that sane. Some are a combination of both.
But, if there's something reasonable that I can do to help you be happy with yourself, you let me know. Okay?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:15PM (6 children)
I imagine you have a similar level of idiots and whatnot, but they live in the neighborhoods they would be shitting in (high internal migration rates seem to contribute to the problem since bad actors can move on after committing a bunch of crimes). And law enforcement just might take their job more seriously than they do in the US.
Further, what is there to understand in this situation? Some sociopathic idiots want bling so they go the easy route and rob a rich guy who dies in the process. Not much that needs to be understood actually.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:44PM (5 children)
Not 70%, no (read the post I was replying to).
This much I get. What I don't get:
1. how come someone infers the rich guy didn't have a shotgun or that owning a shotgun would have helped
2. how come someone else can assert the attackers had a shotgun themselves
And both of them seems to be very sure what they are saying is probable, with nobody on the thread questioning those assumptions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @11:46PM (4 children)
"1. how come someone infers the rich guy didn't have a shotgun or that owning a shotgun would have helped"
.
Because the shotgun makes it possible to kill the intruders before they kill you, assuming your alarm system ( which any rich guy in the US would certainly have ) alerted you to the home invasion. How would you protect yourself from three violent attackers, you stupid shit ? Would you say "please don't hurt me ?"
.
"how come someone else can assert the attackers had a shotgun themselves"
.
Because those making the assertion are idiots. If the perpetrators had a shotgun, they would not have stabbed the guy, they would have shot him or used the shotgun to bludgeon the victim. The reason a knife was used is that a knife was the only weapon available.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday June 26 2017, @12:00AM (3 children)
Nice reserve that assumption. If the alarm system is that good, why didn't it call immediately a security agency hired for monitoring.
I mean, look, I have an alarm system installed at home, and I'm paying around $400/year to such a security agency which should be at my home in 30 mins after the alarm triggered. Is it such a big deal in US?
The way I see it, this is the same level of idiocy as assuming the guy didn't have a fire arm - be it shotgun or any other kind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:51AM (2 children)
Some day you're going to insult the wrong person, and they might just decide to teach you a lesson about manners.
In any case, you're not American and you don't know what Americans are really like. So your opinions mean nothing. You found one poor slob ( the dope smoker from Maine ) who is ready to cooperate with you that Americans are bad people. All that says a lot more about the dope smoker from Maine that it says about Americans.
Come to the US, and meet some people, and you will discover Americans are not at all like you seem to imagine they are. Sure, there are some bad people in the US, just as there are everywhere else in the world, but the average American is a good person and not at all the jerk that that idiot from Maine seems to believe they are.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:29AM (1 child)
Pray tell, is there anything insulting into my posts? I said: "You Americans react so unusual compared to the rest of this world, you are like an extraterrestrial alien". Yes, that's a statement of an opinion. Is it an insult?
Maybe I'll overcome my repulsion to go towards the plane with my shoes in my hand and do it someday.
However, I almost feel insulted by that request, even more so because I see it as serving no purpose other than security theater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @05:37PM
FWIW,
As an American and not the previous poster, I didn't get his post either. I even re-read your post thinking I must have missed something at least slightly insulting, but nope. It was reasonable and conversational. I guess, just ignore the trolls.
PS, I find going through the airport here to be useless, frustrating, and humiliating. I think it reflects a societal loss of respect and freedom between citizens and between the Government and its citizens. I'm sure you would enjoy visiting many places here, but I wouldn't blame you at all for not wanting to go through that abuse.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @11:26PM (3 children)
"On the contrary, I'm trying to understand how US got so fucked. It's alien to me, doesn't make sense at all. And I'm not alone."
-
-
-
It's not just the US which has problems, as anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the world is aware.
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You're displaying profound ignorance regarding the history of the world, or stupidity, or perhaps a combination of the two.
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France has had many problems with immigrants and problems with Islamic extremists. Ask any native French person how thrilled they are to have hundreds of thousands of people living in France who would like to burn the country to the ground.
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The U.K. has had more than its share of trouble, with Islamic terrorists and also the IRA.
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Perhaps you have heard of "The Troubles" in a place called Northern Ireland ?
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And there's Africa, home of lovely spots like Somalia, where there are plenty of people who are ready to cut your throat to steal whatever it is you have.
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How about South Africa, the former home of Apartheid, and the place where they put a car tire over your arms and set it on fire. They call that a "necklace". Are
we really supposed to believe the US is somehow more "fucked" than a place where people do that ?
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The former USSR, home of purges which sent millions to their deaths. Have you ever heard of The Road of Bones ? If not, Google it.
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Japan ? Home of Aum Shin Rykyo. The country which was responsible for the rape of thousands of Chinese women during WWII. Lovely stuff.
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Bottom line : no intelligent person would even try to make the claim that the US somehow has a unique status as "fucked" in the world today. Such a statement is so absurd it is comical.
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The world is a place where bad things can happen. But it is also a place where good things can happen. There is no place which is totally free of bad stuff,
nor is there a place which is all bad, nor is there a place which is all good.
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If you don't like the US, it doesn't matter. The US doesn't need to apologize to you or anyone else, and if you don't like what the US is, don't come to the US. It's funny, though. For some reason millions of people are still trying to come to the US to live. I guess they didn't get your advice. Or more likely they have a more balanced and realistic worldview than you do.
If you don't like the US, stay in your own country. And take your opinion of the US and piss off, because we in the US, who literally saved Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany, know the US is neither a perfectly good place nor a perfectly bad place, just like most of the rest of the world.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday June 26 2017, @12:02AM (2 children)
How about all the other countries which doesn't seem to have the same level of problems and, when they have the occasional such troubles, are not overreacting?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:56AM (1 child)
"How about all the other countries which doesn't seem to have the same level of problems and, when they have the occasional such troubles, are not overreacting?"
The above is just your opinion. I happen to know that France and Germany both have ultra-right wing factions which would like to exterminate immigrants. This can be verified by multiple sources, both government-based and independent.
You cite only your opinion as some sort of "proof" that things are a certain way. You've convinced me you're a troll and a fool, and I'm not wasting one more second of my time on you.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:23AM
Really? Well, seems like an opinion backed by reality - I'm happy to hold such an opinion.
Greece [wikipedia.org]? (neighboring Turkey, heaps as Syrians transited)
Portugal - not even having an entry in Wikipedia for terrorism? (close to Morocco)
Italy [wikipedia.org]? (on the path of Lybian refugees)
Norway [wikipedia.org]? (terrorist attacks without overreaction)
Sweden? (one terrorist attack [wikipedia.org] no overreaction)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday June 26 2017, @01:31PM
Depends on the neighborhood, but yeah pretty much. Not that gunshots are so common, more that they're not common enough for anyone to assume it's actually a gunshot. Fireworks are very common everywhere I've ever lived though, particularly around this time of year but there's always some asshat setting them off in the middle of February too. Of course my experience includes a rural area with people hunting not that far from the house, and a more urban area where a few people HAVE been shot nearby, so probably some of those "fireworks" WERE actually gunshots, but I certainly wouldn't know the difference...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:00PM (4 children)
Give the fuckers whatever they want
Um...no. Look at what happened in this case - that's what the victim did, and he's still dead.
If someone breaks into your home while you are there, you must assume that they intend to kill you. They don't want witnesses behind who can identify them. They'll steal from you and leave you bleeding on the floor.
What you do in this situation depends on you, but you really only have two choices: hide or attack.
Hiding is a genuine option: if you cannot face violence, if you have a house full of children, etc. However, it requires a room in your house, which you can reach while retreating, with a door that cannot be kicked open. Get there, get your family there, and hope that the criminals aren't determined enough to go get tools before the police arrive. You might want to make sure that there is a working phone in that room, in case you don't have your cell phone with you.
Alternatively, the best defense - indeed the only possible defense - is offense. They don't care about you. You cannot afford to care about them. They are used to violence, you are not. They probably outnumber you, which means that you cannot afford to "fight fair". Whether you use a firearm, a baseball bat, or a ballista - it doesn't matter what - you must attack. They will not be expecting it, which gives you a brief advantage of surprise. If you hesitate, if you warn them, if you threaten them - you have already lost.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:32AM (3 children)
"a door that cannot be kicked open."
For the sake of clarity, we should touch on what that means. Personally, I've never seen a door in a residence that would slow me down very much, if I actually wanted to get on the other side of it. A door that can't be kicked in requires a solid wall, first. (Imagine how embarrassing it would be, if you had a really secure door, but a shotgun blast and a couple kicks opens a hole in the wall big enough for Godzilla to walk through!) Specifically, a concrete wall. No, cinder block won't do - it's gotta be concrete. The door has to be a fireproof security door. The door must swing INWARD, so that the intruders outside the door can't simply remove the hinge pins, and move the door out of their way. Best if the door frame is put in place, the forms put up, and then the concrete poured, embedding the door into the wall. Second best, pour the wall, mount the door frame, then pour grout into the empty space between the doorframe and the wall. Once the wall and the door are in place, you DO NOT rely on the door latch and a deadbolt. Instead, you put a drop bar on the door. Most of the stuff I'm finding on the internet shows rather flimsy wooden bars, utilizing cheap hardware. This one isn't bad - http://www.midlandhardware.com/185579.html [midlandhardware.com] Don't use a cheap pine 2x4, either. Invest in a nice oak, or even steel bar. 1/4" 2x4 channel iron is pretty damned hard to kick in.
(Score: 2) by t-3 on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:23PM (1 child)
Ghetto kickdoe stopper: Nail down 2x4s in a T behind the door. You can buy setups that work similarly at some hardware stores. Unless your crossbar is anchored REALLY fucking well it will be pulled out of the wall just as easily as the door is kicked in.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 26 2017, @07:46AM
Mmmm. We built a concrete wall, remember? Yes, my anchors are anchored pretty securely. Alright, I didn't specify, but I'll do it now: We use 1/2" embedded bolts for anchors, 4 bolts in each of the bar holders. I did specify that those specific bar holders were "not bad". They aren't as heavy as I was looking for, but anchored into concrete as I have specified, you're not going to just kick them out of the wall. They'll stop the average police squad using their cute little battering rams.
The two 2x4's nailed to the floor will slow people down, if the door is solid. But, you better think a little more 3 dimensionally. What good is it to stop the bottom of the door swinging, if I can kick the panel out of the door? Nail down your two 2x4's, then put an upright, and a brace from the top of the upright, down to the rear of your "T". That will help some.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @05:55AM
You have that backwards. It is not how a door to a TOP SECRET//SCI//SAP room is secured. Something good enough for that is good enough for your safety room.
The door frame prevents kicking the door in.
Removal of the pins from good-quality hinges is not so easy. There is a side pin/bolt/screw that locks the main one in place. You can only get to this while the door is open.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:15PM
"What an asinine mindset."
*
*
*
Not nearly as asinine as hoping for reasonable treatment from those who would invade your home.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by KGIII on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:24PM (11 children)
Hmm... I'm not actually sure if this post is worth the effort. That's not actually meant as a pejorative. You have used logic, of sorts, to come to your conclusion. It is not my job to change your views, nor do I care to.
I do feel a different view needs to be presented. I'm not entirely sure how to articulate it concisely. I will try for brevity, but this may be a bit long.
By now, those who don't know me from the Green Site - and other tech sites - should be aware of several things about me. I'm pretty non-violent, I don't hate, I spent eight years in the Marines, I live in Maine, I hunt and fish, and I own a shitton of firearms.
I'd like to dispel a notion that you may have. I am not a gun nut. No, I don't want to hurt anyone. I've fired my weapon at living people and that's something I live with, every day. If the government asked, I'd probably turn in all my firearms - and then move.
I am not free because I am armed. I am armed because I am free. No, I don't think there will be a revolution, I don't want to overthrow the government, and I sure as hell don't belong to a militia. I am not even a member of the NRA. In fact, I donate regularly to the ACLU.
I support reasonable restrictions on the right to own firearms. Namely, crazy fuckers shouldn't be allowed firearms. However, they're going to get them. That's just reality. No, no number of tragedies is going to make me change my views. Appeals to emotion are silly. I will turn my firearms in, if there's no other way, and then I'll leave. If you're curious, I'm also a Canadian citizen and have ample financial means to relocate.
Now, there's enough background...
Some folks just need killing. A firearm is the best method you have available. The right to preserve your life is important. The ability to preserve your life is invaluable.
Largely, the problems stem from a lack of education. Yes, even the criminal problem is often due to lack of education. Even the accident problems are due to a lack of education. The only rational solution is to accept that we're not going to get rid of firearms and to give people education. I'd suggest firearm safety classes being taught in elementary school and then refreshed every few years to be age appropriate. The safe way for children to handle firearms is for them to simply not touch them.
If you own a firearm, the onus is on you to get an education and to maintain your skills. This requires practice. Rights come with obligations. A firearm owners is inherently obligated to use and store their firearm in a safe manner. I'm even willing to accept that reasonable tests be given that ensure knowledge of safe operation/storate of each firearm owned. Again, I'm not a 'gun nut.' I think most 'gun nuts' shouldn't own firearms without further education - which is not actually memorizing a bunch of video game stats.
Let's go a bit further, shall we?
In my State, I don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I have my permit, but that's for reciprocity in other States. We haven't needed a permit for a couple of years now. Do you know what the firearm violence trends are doing, now that we have that law? They're progressing at the same rate they were prior to the law - which is not a whole lot. Why? We all own firearms. We're used to them. We're educated in their safe operation. We don't see them as toys and we don't view them as magical devices. They are, for us, tools. Yes, a firearm is a tool.
If you want to preserve your life, there's no better tool than a firearm - at least commonly available. I mean, an A-10 would be nice, but that's rather impractical, However, it doesn't end there. If you want to maximize your chances, learn to use it properly, store it properly, and ensure your family is aware of any plans you intend to implement in an emergency. This does require effort.
I live a long, long ways from a little village and even further from a city of any size. I'm in an unincorporated township, and an emergency response is going to take ~45 minutes to get here, and double that if the weather is poor. Fortunately, the odds of someone breaking into my house are pretty much nil. The odds of someone trying to hurt me are even lower. I don't usually carry a firearm, unless I am hunting. I have one firearm that's not in a safe. I have no children living here, as they are now both adults. The odds of me being harmed by my own firearms are even smaller than the odds of someone trying to harm me.
To be honest, if you pointed a firearm at me - I'd probably laugh. Why? Well, if you were pointing it at me, you already screwed up. You should have shot me when I wasn't looking. That means you're not going to shoot me. On the other hand, if you're pointing it at me and you're shaking/nervous, I'm gonna be scared shitless. Why? It means you have no fucking idea what you're doing and may just shoot me by accident. Firearms aren't inherently scary, people are. Firearms are just inanimate objects that are used for a variety of purposes.
Now, I realize there's a lot that's only tangentially related to your post. I just figure I'll put it all out there and you can see a different perspective.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2, Disagree) by frojack on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:35PM (3 children)
FAIL.
Self defeating post, because TL:DR.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Saturday June 24 2017, @07:05PM (2 children)
LOL I could go on for hours. ;-)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @07:27PM (1 child)
"LOL I could go on for hours. ;-)"
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Best not to confuse quantity with quality, son.
Your original missive didn't really address specific points made in previous posts. If you goal was to tell us your position on guns, fine, but all that stuff about how you'd deal with a gun being pointed at you was not even remotely germane to this discussion. Maybe you were stoned when you were writing it, that would explain it. BTW I did read it all. Anyone who thought it was too long to read has the attention span of an amoeba.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Saturday June 24 2017, @08:28PM
If you'd read it all, you'd know I mentioned that some of it was only tangentially related. My goal wasn't to change minds, but to give a different perspective. You're welcome to dismiss it. It bothers me none.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday June 24 2017, @08:38PM (4 children)
I just modded you up, as you make some interesting points and that's worthy of note.
However, I will take issue with one of your statements:
I disagree. If you want to preserve your life, there's no better tool than *your brain*. Those are pretty commonly available, perhaps even more common than firearms. However, it's an open question as to whether or not any particular human is proficient at using such a tool.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @12:21AM
I don't think I'd call my brain a tool. You can, if you want.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @12:25AM (2 children)
"If you want to preserve your life, there's no better tool than *your brain*."
.
.
You sit in your house unarmed while it is being invaded by thugs who don't have any compunction about killing you, and see how using your brain helps you survive.
Do let us know how it works out. Of course that may require communication from the next world, but we'll have our Ouija boards ready !
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:20AM
A brain can conclude that the rate of violence in the area means that the investment into a more secure door and windows is a good idea. Additionally a perimeter alarm could be useful to get a head start.
So when the thugs come by, you will know in advance and they will hardly get inside.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:22PM
You still have three options: flee, hide, and arm yourself for some sort of ambush/counterattack. Brain helps with all three.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:05AM (1 child)
"Rights come with obligations."
You could have shortened your post to that one sentence, and some few of us would have understood it. But, the verbiage that accompanies that one sentence is necessary to help other people to understand it. Unfortunately, a lot of people will never understand that one short sentence, no matter how much time and effort you spend on them.
Sometimes, I wonder if they even teach civics classes in school anymore. It seems that fewer and fewer people understand that all of your rights are accompanied by responsibilities.
Those who won't fight for their freedom are undeserving of freedom. Those who won't learn the proper use of a firearm are undeserving of firearms. Those who won't learn to be responsible speakers, don't deserve the freedom of speech. On and on it goes. About the only place where we see this concept driven home, is with driver's licenses. Those who won't drive responsibly eventually lose the privilege of driving.
Oh yeah, privileges vs rights. A lot more people understand that privileges can be revoked, than there are people who understand that rights can also be revoked.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:33AM
No. They don't teach civics. They teach Social Studies, which isn't really the same thing.
When I retired, I spent some time at UMF, teaching mathematics. They had normal rote skills and had memorized many things. They'd never been taught critical thinking, civic, or how to learn. We had many spirited discussions and good times. We learned more than mathematics.
Alas, too many students and too little time. As I was retired, I'll be damned if I will put up with that level of frustration. The kids were great and eager to learn, once engaged. They aren't dumb. They are not failing us. We are failing them.
One might say we have the responsibility to give them motivation to engage their intellectual curiosity. After all, we had the right to breed them.
Meh... Just some mental bubblegum.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:21PM (2 children)
So you've never actually fired a shot gun, or even seen it done except on TV drama shows then?
In a house, you will never have a target distance that will allow any significant spread [ggpht.com]. (Bird shot).
With buckshot, its even less:
5 Yards [shootersforum.com]
10 Yards [shootersforum.com]
15 yards [shootersforum.com]
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday June 24 2017, @09:09PM (1 child)
Yeah, was just about to point this out. I bet that guy's only exposure to shotguns was in 8-bit overhead-view cowboy games.
A shotgun is not a Claymore mine!
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:27AM
I fully admit that I'm trolling. ;-)
You were in the Air Force. Like you know anything about mines or shotguns. Sheesh...
I know, you played with them on your simulator?
Don't worry, while you were doing that, the rest of us were laying out the red carpet for you. I mean, you had to have someone to make a runway. ;-)
(I'm almost, sorta, maybe - just a wee bit - sorry. I just can't help it. I blame weed. Also I blame the fact that you were in the AF.)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:59PM (3 children)
In Georgia they make it hard, let me tell you. They make it hard to defend yourself. Very bad gun laws. The colleges, the airports -- Hartsfield Airport, very big airport -- they made those into gun-free zones. For political correctness. I feel that the gun-free zones -- when you say that, that’s target practice for the sickos and the mentally ill. That’s the target. They look around for gun-free zones. They make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to acquire firearms while consistently failing to stop criminals from getting guns. We should re-examine our policy to make sure that these prohibitions do not impede law abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights. When you disarm law abiding people, you leave only the bad guys and terrorists with guns. Isn’t it interesting that the tragedy in Paris, the horrific attack on Charlie Hebdo, took place in one of the toughest gun control countries in the world? But we're #WINNING [twitter.com] in Georgia, we just had a huge victory there. In the election. We deplore this vicious attack, this striking down of a beautiful man in the prime of his life. And we deplore Georgia's gun laws that caused it. We'll change those laws. Maybe not in my first 100 days, but we'll change them. So you can defend yourselves in the great, great state of Georgia.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:36PM (1 child)
Well maybe this multi-millionaire shouldn't have been living in a college dorm in Hartsfield Airport. Asshat.
We don't know if he was a gun owner and just couldn't get to his weapon. We also don't know if the murderers were armed with guns but chose the more stealthy stabbing rather than waking up the neighbors with a an unnecessary gunshot.
This is a very unfortunate incident but neither side should be trying to use it as a political piñata to further their own personal agendas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:02PM
"neither side should be trying to use it as a political piñata"
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You have delusions of grandeur, if you think you can tell the rest of us what we "should" be doing.
FUCK OFF.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:25AM
The French government has let in complete nutcases in the order of 100 000s. Of course there will be violence. Either Macron will solve this or the reality will solve Macron.
Macron - The bankster candidate with a big smile.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by richtopia on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:32PM (1 child)
Other people are covering the debate about the effectiveness of a weapon for self defense in this situation, so I don't want to touch that.
However I will comment that a large dog is probably the best security system for the homeowner. Knowing a dog is on-site is a huge deterrence avoiding the situation entirely, and even if someone still tries a home invasion the dog is always ready to go.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:14AM
Dog is probably better than a gun. Dog and gun are better than either, alone. Depending on the dog of course. There is no particular breed of dog that makes an excellent watch dog, all the time. I've seen my beloved German Shepards skulk away from minor threats, and I've seen silly, tiny lapdogs charge into hopeless frays. But, any dog that makes noise, and distracts the intruders is "good enough" to let you reach your own weapons. If the dog tears the intruders to pieces while you are reaching for your weapon, so much the better.
From the movie, 'Stand by me' - "Chopper, sic balls!"
(Score: 5, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:09PM (2 children)
*If* they were able to get to a gun in time. The police arrived at 2:30 AM so it's likely they were asleep and never heard the intruders enter the home. If you're fast asleep and someone sticks a knife to your throat, that gun won't do you any good. Home invasion has got to rank as one of the most scary situations you can be in but guns don't automatically make it safer. Crooks will just make sure you don't know they're coming. Seen home invasion cctv video where the three occupants never saw it coming. Crooks kicked in a door and were right on top of them, guns drawn. Unfortunately, all three occupants were executed. They could have had an arsenal and it wouldn't have made a difference.
Get one or better yet, two big dogs. They'll make a crook think twice about breaking in and alert you to potential intruders allowing you to get to your weapon in time.
(Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Sunday June 25 2017, @12:05AM
A police officer told me that the best thing to protect your home was two dogs. A big dog to bark and frighten off any intruders and a small dog to bark and wake the big dog up.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:34PM
FTFY. If crooks were so perfect at executing plans like this, they wouldn't be knocking over SN residences (or at least, shooting the dogs would be part of the invasion plan).
Just like one shouldn't treat a firearm as a perfect counter to home invasions, one shouldn't treat home invaders as having the perfect counters to firearms.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:47AM
I RTFA and a couple of others.
There's no mention in any of them that the victim had or had not a shot gun or any kind of gun. So, what makes you so sure he didn't?
Based on the likelihood of an USian to own a gun, there's one in three chances [washingtonpost.com] his household actually owned a firearm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Interesting) by bradley13 on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:33PM (2 children)
This article a bit ironic, coming just after a black professor called out (referring to white) "Let Them F*cking Die" [patheos.com].
For anyone unfamiliar with Fred, his take on the black community is...less than flattering. [fredoneverything.org]
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:43PM
Anyone who wonders why some cops might prefer to shoot first and ask questions later needs to understand that cops KNOW ALL TOO WELL that blacks are prone to this sort of brainless violence.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:25AM
Regarding second article, I have one nit-pick. The examples given are all legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants running away from shit governments. Blacks are not immigrants. They were bought and brought here. There could very well be a bias while they were selected too - they were definitely not made slaves because they were the brightest.
At the end they are citizens of America and there is no denying that they have been treated badly. You can agree or disagree with the role their culture plays in their plight, but the confrontational politics has played an equal role. So I agree with the gist of the article.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:52PM
http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/private-investigators-seth-rich-murder-evidence-vanishing/ [wnd.com]
http://www.newsweek.com/seth-rich-murder-report-profiling-project-627634 [newsweek.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:31PM
""""Color"""" me surprised.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:10PM
Should have been armed.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by oakgrove on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:21PM
Here's a picture of the suspects [wusa9.com].
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:51PM (9 children)
When whities are the perps, race doesn't come up. When darkies are the perps, of course they would be black, wouldn't they.
Can't win.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:06PM
Considering the violent crime rate for blacks is 50 times what it is for whites, yeah, I'd say "yep, they're black" is an understandable thing for somebody to say.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:38PM (6 children)
Without really justifying it, there's is a reason it's constantly brought up. By population, 7/8 of these sort of attacks should be committed by offenders of any race other than black. However in these cases, particularly where there is violence, black individuals show up time and again. It's extremely bizarre.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:33AM (1 child)
The bizarrnes is most likely called MAO-A which is present as follows:
MAO-A gene between ethnic groups: 59% of Black men, 54% of Chinese men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carried the 3R allele. While 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @06:25PM
I tend to be somewhat dismissive of the purely correlational nature of genetics, but that [wikipedia.org] sure is indeed very interesting!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @05:48AM (3 children)
Except that blacks and whites don't have the same socio-economic distributions within the population, so you can't do a simple percentage comparison. There's also the possibility of reporting bias, where crimes committed by one group are reported more prominently than crimes by another.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @07:16AM
Of the bottom fifth of society, 75% of those households are white. Hispanics are also even worse off, as a whole, than blacks in terms of personal income.
Any way you spin the data there's no real rational explanation. You can also use FBI reporting data to get precise numbers. It's not a reporting bias.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @12:01AM (1 child)
"Except that blacks and whites don't have the same socio-economic distributions within the population, so you can't do a simple percentage comparison. "
`
The above is such a blatantly flawed argument it is laughable.
Blacks commit more violent crime than any other ethnic group in the US, per capita and that's a fact. You are entitled to your own opinions, but facts are facts and you are not allowed to make up facts to bolster your argument. Your attempt to excuse behaviors because of different socio-economic circumstances is a false premise that would convince no one but an idiot.
It seems you won't understand the real world until something happens to you. Perhaps your wife or girlfriend will be raped, or you might be mugged and left for dead by a pack of ghetto thugs. Maybe you'll get religion then, and you'll quit trying to make bogus excuses for the bad behavior of criminals you don't even know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @06:15PM
Speaking of laughable and flawed. The original poster has a valid point. As an example, let's say we did the stats and found that people of all ethnicities in say the lowest 10% or 20% of the US income bracket had the same level of violent crime. And as the income bracket moved up the rate of violent crime went down. If we also found that a income level were disproportionate by ethnicities (e.g. more blacks are poor). The numbers of violent crimes per capita by ethnicity could definitely be accounted for by a causative factor of income.
IIRC, and it's been awhile and the numbers looked to be fairly trustable but it was internet searches, not in depth research: there is a positive correlation between lower income and higher violent crime (I think past a certain income point it flattened out). When taking income into consideration, the violent crime rates still ended up being higher for blacks than for other ethnicities. This did indicate that income is not the only reason for the difference in violence rates. It does not indicate what other reason(s) cause the difference. I can think of a lot of possibilities: history of injustice, culture, racism by police/justice department, racism by mainstream society, genetics. I am sure there are many more I can not think of. Your "real world" is a lot more complicated than you are treating it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @07:09PM
So blacks "can't win" huh ?
Of course you can't, you make sure of that yourselves.
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You people fuck yourselves and other people over and then try to shift the blame to someone else ( e.g. "It's all the white man's fault ..." ). But the only people who are fooled by the attempt to shift blame are yourselves and a small number of clueless naive SJW idiots who have not yet been the victim of violent crime. The rest of us know exactly what the score is, and no amount of Al Sharpton or BLM bullshit is going to fool us. If you want black lives to matter, you can start by behaving like everyone else's life matters, and that means not committing crime, violent or non-violent. As long as your culture glorifies the "gangsta" lifestyle, you're DOOMED.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:33PM (1 child)
This happens probably once a day or more across the country.
Why does this one get posted here?
Because the vic use to work at some vaguely computer related company that probably none of us has had any dealing with?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Saturday June 24 2017, @07:46PM
Heh. I honestly wonder if that's actually their name. I recall a Computer Management Services. But then I guess that's always the goal with these "organic" names. I bet they rebranded at some point.
Also going by the rest of the comments it's here because founder was old white guy and killers were young black guys and soylent's editors are probably racist and closeted gay and other stuff and made soylent between klan meetings and are the cancer killing soylent and gun control and stuff.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @08:10PM
What do you expect in Apelanta?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @08:56PM (1 child)
This fucker supported Donald Trump, so he was targeted by one of the dozens of roving Clinton [thecommonsenseshow.com] Death Squads [snopes.com] who come complete with patsies to give that murderous duo deniability. Especially now that Chelsea is the executioner in-chief.
It's always Hillary's fault. Always. She's injecting bacteria into your milk to make it go bad ahead of the expiration date. She's sending text messages to your girlfriend/wife telling her you're cheating. She's mostly unscrewing your salt shakers and replacing your SO's birth control pills with aspirin.
Hillary sneaks into your house and pokes holes into your glasses so they dribble. She distorts reality in your bathroom so you miss when you pee.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @10:08PM
She also leaves the seat up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:45AM (1 child)
There are many smart techies here. No idea on how to protect against home invasion?
Sentry gun?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @10:06PM
Home invasion is a tough one to protect against. I think a number of comments list some ways above. But thinking through it, I tend to think of more questions than good answers.
An alarm system that calls for help is good. Although there will still be too much time before helps arrives to be safe with that alone.
Doors that are hard to kick in. This means a frame and walls that are too tough to go through easily, solid core or steel doors, a bar on the door, etc. This would also imply bars on the windows or someone will just walk in through a window.
A safe room could help, if you can get to it fast enough.
Firearms and weapons in general could help. But you also have to be able to get to them quickly. Are you trained to use them? Are you always packing?, How fast can you get that gun safe open?
You will most likely be outnumbered. How many attackers are there? 3?, 6? more? How well armed are they? The attackers have already decided to be incredibly violent, have geared up, and are mentally prepared to cause harm. How fast can you go from watching Colbert to killing someone?
So now that I'm feeling incredibly paranoid, I'm going to do something else :(